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Shotguns, Buckshot, and SHTF
Marktwain | 23 October, 2011 | Marktwain

Posted on 10/23/2011 9:17:13 AM PDT by marktwain

Shotguns, buckshot, SHTF

With all of the insane government spending going on, and the potential of nasty inflation hitting soon, I have been looking for things to buy that have utility, trading value, and long term storage life.

I have been heavily involved in the gun culture, grew up in it, studied it, and have been a professional for the last 16 years.

Almost everyone has a shotgun. Usually it is a 12 gauge, although there are plenty of 20, 16, and 410 shotguns out there. Most people have a box or two of bird shot. They might have a few slugs, maybe a couple of rounds of buckshot, but most do not have even a magazine full of buckshot or slugs. Worse, in this area, buckshot is not heavily stocked. I doubt if the local stores have a collective inventory of 200 boxes, for a population of 100,000.

I had a couple of boxes of buckshot and slugs. I did some research and came to the conclusion that buckshot was the best SHTF shotgun round to have, and that the type developed for sale to law enforcement was the best of the bunch, and not that much more expensive. With the best LE type buckshot, all the pellets will be in a 6-9 inch group at 25 yards, and it is likely that you would get multiple hits on a man sized target at 100 yards. It turns a small game and bird getter into a very effective militia/SHTF weapon.

Most people do not have buckshot because they do not use it regularly. I happen to know my neighbors and I trust them. If the SHTF, I want them armed, and I want them confident in their arms. I pondered the situation and decided on this course of action.

I ordered a case of what I think is the best buckshot out there, Federal LE 9 pellet 00 buck with the Flight Control wad. A person that I know well in a State Patrol said that they tested it extensively, and that it gave incredible patterns (about 6 inches at 25 yards). This is also a reasonably mild load at 1145 fps, works great in manually operated shotguns, but may not work in all auto loaders.

Having a box of factory ammo that says : FEDERAL PREMIUM LAW ENFORCEMENT AMMUNITION, TACTICAL, just might put a little more spine into a recently formed informal militiaman when they need it.

I will be giving a couple of 5 round boxes of this ammo to all of my neighbors who have 12 gauges this Christmas. I believe that it will be better received than fruitcake. They all know me as a firearms instructor, so that gives it a bit more credibility.

I was able to find a case of this ammunition on the Internet for $225 dollars for 250 rounds including shipping. Other brands can be had for as little as $150/250rds, including shipping.

Buck shot is a relatively heavy munition, it is bulky, and a shotgun is not my first choice for a SHTF firearm, but for a great many people, it is the best that they have.

I highly recommend getting to know your neighbors before the SHTF.

Do most Freepers who have shotguns have a good supply of buckshot?


TOPICS: Education; History; Hobbies; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: banglist; beprepared; buckshot; getreadyhereitcomes; getreadynow; preparenow; prepperping; preppers; rkba; shotgun; shtf; survivalping; survivorping
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Many people might want slugs for a shotgun, but my thought is that a rifle does every thing a shotgun with slugs does, and does it better. I don't want to be messing around with changing ammunition in a deady situation, and the incredible groups that the best buckshot loads give you make it fairly effective out to 100 yards in any case.
1 posted on 10/23/2011 9:17:17 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

It is a rare legal situation were one can claim self-defense / Castle Doctrine more than 30 meters away. 12 Ga every time, with Alexander Arms Grendel 6.5 ready to punch out more than 600 meters if needed.


2 posted on 10/23/2011 9:22:03 AM PDT by MindBender26 (Forget AMEX. Remember your Glock 27: Never Leave Home Without It!)
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To: marktwain
I did some research and came to the conclusion that buckshot was the best SHTF shotgun round to have...

At one time for a brief period, ATG sold 12 gauge rounds loaded with fleschettes.....if you'd have acted quickly, you'd have something that would work very well, indeed....

3 posted on 10/23/2011 9:24:47 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: marktwain
I grew up in Michigan where we had 4 seasons: Deer Pheasant Rabbit and Hockey.

I stopped hunting and reduced my guns down to 4: 2x12 gauges and 2x.357’s

During the ‘67 riots those weapons kept our house safe from the looters. It was a lesson well learned.

4 posted on 10/23/2011 9:27:05 AM PDT by Mikey_1962 (Obama: The Affirmative Action President.)
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To: marktwain
A tactical shotgun (at least 7rds magazine, whether pump or semi-auto) along with 100rds of 00 buckshot is the best SHTF weapon you can have.

They will kill reliably out to 50yds and under 25yds you don't have to double tap.

Sure, everyone should have a good pistol, a .22 rifle and a hunting rifle with scope...the adventurous should have an "assault weapon" with 1,000rds of ammo.

But that tactical shotgun should be the first weapon acquired and mastered.

5 posted on 10/23/2011 9:27:31 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: MindBender26
We live in interesting times. I certainly hope that the S does not HTF in a general way anytime soon, but if it does, I want the law-abiding, Constitution supporting, God fearing people to be armed. There are very few times when people needed to form informal neighborhood militias on short notice, but we have seen them when government directed order breaks down over a fairly wide area.

I think that the more people that are prepared, the less likely it is to happen.

6 posted on 10/23/2011 9:28:54 AM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: marktwain

A combo of buckshot and 65 caliber ball is shown at the link below.

Centurion Multi-Defense Buckshot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03KmUQiQ-jE


7 posted on 10/23/2011 9:29:04 AM PDT by Hang'emAll (")
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To: Mariner

8 posted on 10/23/2011 9:36:12 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: MindBender26

I’ve been quietly accumulating both Bird and Buck shot for some time. Every once in a while, a sale comes up that I cannot pass on. If I were in Cal now, I’d be considered an armory under state law with just my shot gun rounds. Own 5 shot guns, 1 a 12 double; 2 are 12 pumps; 1 each in 20 double and pump. When the SHTF one will need both anti personnel rounds and food rounds IMO.


9 posted on 10/23/2011 9:37:18 AM PDT by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
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To: marktwain

I’ve got 20 gauges around here.

Made me take a look. I’ve got 7-1/2, 4, and a couple of boxes of #2. A few rifled slugs and about 10 sabot slugs.

Been spending so much money on shooting 9mm and 9x18 Mak that I’ve kind of ignored the shotgun ammo.


10 posted on 10/23/2011 9:39:22 AM PDT by 2111USMC (Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.)
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We've Watched The Spinning Act In DC Long Enough


Click The Pic

Join Other Conservative Voices And Support FR

11 posted on 10/23/2011 9:44:47 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: marktwain

I have all manner of shotties, but keep my Mossy 8 shot for SHTF. I have a few hundred rnds of buckshot, but hadn’t thought of giving ammo to my neighbors.


12 posted on 10/23/2011 9:47:04 AM PDT by umgud
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To: marktwain

My suggestion would be to gift them each with firearms instruction and range experience certificates, and then gift the shotgun and rounds while on the range. My viewpoint is arming a neighbor who doesn’t first show the desire to be able to use the weapon effectively means that you’re creating a weapons cache for someone else to use. Otherwise I applaud your efforts to secure your neighborhood.


13 posted on 10/23/2011 9:51:35 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: Gaffer

http://www.firequest.com/exotic-shotgun-ammo.html


14 posted on 10/23/2011 9:52:20 AM PDT by BigDaddyTX (Don't Mex with Texas)
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To: marktwain

I’ve reduce my inventory down to an Colt 6920 with Aimpoint Comp M4 and 3x scope with Larue quick disconnect, Mossberg 590A1 LE with military buckshot, Ruger tactical .22 lr, and (1) hicap Sig 9mm

all complete with a couple thousands rounds each.

next is to stock up on food/medical supplies.


15 posted on 10/23/2011 9:56:42 AM PDT by Hammerhead
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To: marktwain

I usually like to keep a good stock of ammo. I have around 250rnds of 00 Buckshot on hand at all times. Not counting the 40 shells I have loaded into a couple of drum mags for a bad day.


16 posted on 10/23/2011 10:16:00 AM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: kingu

It is a good idea. Most of the neighbors are pretty competent people. Of course, it is far easier to give them a Christmas gift than it is to organize a range session.


17 posted on 10/23/2011 10:20:54 AM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: marktwain

I don’t have any guns or ammo. All lost in the boating accident last year.


18 posted on 10/23/2011 10:24:34 AM PDT by Chuckster (The longer I live the less I care about what you think.)
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To: marktwain

Yes,Everyone should be Ready
It’s coming
Shotgun will stop most up to 100 yards anyway
An AK-47 will reach out & tap them
Let’s get some FOOD in & something to protect it with Folks RD

http://rd1938.envy.nu/RDsSurvivalTips.html


19 posted on 10/23/2011 10:24:51 AM PDT by RDRAMSEY (RDs Survival Tips)
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To: marktwain
I got an 18” barrel with rifle sights and RemChoke for my 870. I fitted it with a rifled choke tube. Buckshot patterns well at 30 yards and slugs stay easily on a paper plate at 100 yards. It also works great for turkeys with an extra full choke.

The original barrel with various chokes still serves for various table fare.

20 posted on 10/23/2011 10:27:40 AM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Hammerhead

I’ve got 2 model 37 Ithaca’s, ones the standard 6 shot riot model and the other was just a lucky find I picked up back in the late 70’s. It’s a 20 inch US 8 shot that was issued to a Navy Seal team.


21 posted on 10/23/2011 10:30:56 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: marktwain
Everybody seems to be impressed with 00 Buck but military studies show that #4 Buck is better.

There is more shot for better coverage and yet the shot is large enough to do the proper damage.

Aim just under the groin and the #4 Buck will not only knock them down but has the best chance to rip through an artery. The lower aim point will be under body armor if the perp is smart enough to be wearing it.

22 posted on 10/23/2011 10:50:48 AM PDT by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
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To: Paladin2

Ah, the Mossbeg 590 Mariner. If you’re gonna have a shottie, that’s the one to have.


23 posted on 10/23/2011 10:52:55 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Gaffer

***ATG sold 12 gauge rounds loaded with fleschettes****

If you reload, you can fill the shotgun shell with short nails with the heads flattened to make fins.


24 posted on 10/23/2011 10:54:17 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name. See my home page, if you dare! NEW PHOTOS & PAINTINGS)
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To: ctdonath2

I own five A-5s. Three are Belgian. Two Japanese.
The Japanese guns are for the field...


25 posted on 10/23/2011 10:58:59 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: marktwain

I have 2 Remmie 1100s with a bunch of these shells.

26 posted on 10/23/2011 11:06:28 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty
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To: marktwain
Birthday gift from my wife.


27 posted on 10/23/2011 11:12:28 AM PDT by optiguy (Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.----- Ronald Reagan)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

tie the 00buck with piano wire, awesome!


28 posted on 10/23/2011 11:14:42 AM PDT by gunner03
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To: Dusty Road
Be REALLY prepared, all slugs and buckshot:

Keep a couple of thirty round mags loaded, one with green tip piercing rounds and the other with hollow points:

And always have a 'handy':


29 posted on 10/23/2011 11:19:26 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Prepper Ping!


30 posted on 10/23/2011 11:22:33 AM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: marktwain
I will be giving a couple of 5 round boxes of this ammo to all of my neighbors who have 12 gauges this Christmas.

Howdy!, neighbor. CO is right next door ya know. ;^)

I have more than a bunch and less than I'd like of 00buck and slugs as well as a fair number of shells in the #6-#7 shot range. What I would like to get and have put off for too long is some #4 buckshot.

I like your idea of thinking ahead to share with friends and neighbors. I think of that when stocking up on anything not just guns and ammo. It would be nice if they did their own prepping but some of them won't. As long as they're not greedy or have an attitude of entitlement to what others have I will share with them and I expect they will likely reciprocate with things they have an excess of. Like daughters. ;^)

31 posted on 10/23/2011 11:28:37 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Cyber Liberty
Now if I could just find my shotgun I lost in an unfortunate SCUBA diving accident and then get some of these:



If you decide to go with the FRAG-12 HE grenade rounds (12ga.), you have three (3) types to choose from: the FRAG-12 HE (High Explosive), FRAG-12 HE-FA (High Explosive Fragmenting Antipersonnel), and FRAG-12 HE-AP (High Explosive Armor-Piercing a.k.a. High Explosive Armor-Penetrating), depending on the mission profile and requirements. The FRAG-12 grenade rounds utilize a 19mm warhead with a MIL-SPEC 1316 compliant fuze assembly, and arm 3 meters from the muzzle for safety to the shooter. Regarding armor penetration capability, the original Marine Corps Warfighting Laboratory (MCWL) literature on the FRAG-12 stated that the standard HE round will penetrate quarter-inch (1/4”) cold-rolled homogenous steel (CRHS) armor plate and make a one-inch (1-inch)-diameter hole. The same document states that the HE-AP utilizes a shaped-charge warhead to penetrate half-inch (1/2-inch) cold-rolled homogenous steel armor plate, making the same 1-inch diameter hole. However, Defense Review was recently told that the HE-AP will now penetrate ¾-inch CRHS armor plate (unconfirmed/unverified).

The FRAG-12 HE round contains 2.8 grams of pelletized A5 RDX high explosive powder. On impact, it detonates, and you get a big bang, and a lot of fragmentation from the metal casing of the round. The HE-FA anti-personnel round a.k.a. fragmentation round contains 90 stainless steel ball bearings, but it utilizes a smaller explosive charge (approx. 1.8-1.9 grams of high explosive) than the HE round.

125 FRAG-12 grenade rounds are currently being safety-tested at Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) Dahlgren a.k.a. NSWCDD. Testing is expected to continue for approx. one more month. They’ve already been testing them for the last two months.

Source: DefenseReview.com (http://s.tt/13fps)

32 posted on 10/23/2011 11:31:16 AM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: Chuckster
I don’t have any guns or ammo. All lost in the boating accident last year.

Don't you people ever get tired of posting this unfunny, unwitty statement?

33 posted on 10/23/2011 11:39:12 AM PDT by OldPossum
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To: marktwain

I have a 12ga and lots of Federal Tactical 00, but if the bad guys are within 25 yards, you’re going to have a sucky day whatever you’ve got in a true SHTF situation.

For conventional B&E situations, it is a peerless weapon.


34 posted on 10/23/2011 11:41:32 AM PDT by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: Paladin2
I'm absolutely amazed that folks are so willing to provide the world with information as to what they own....complete with pix.

Uh guys, URL’s can be traced back to the owners of the account, complete with names, addresses, bank accounts, phone records, SS#’s to name a few.

Keep your cards close to your vest.

35 posted on 10/23/2011 11:46:53 AM PDT by servantboy777
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To: marktwain
What's the life, the *safe* life, of various boxes of this, that, and whatever that's stored in a dry place?

BTW, my neighbors are mostly idiots. Some are idiots with guns which puts them at the top of the don't trust list (like the one city freak who chased a squirrel from several houses down, shot it at my child's window and left it there). Others are idiots who can't abide guns which puts them right below the first group. Other potential TEOTWAWKI enemies fall below the first two groups.

36 posted on 10/23/2011 11:51:57 AM PDT by bgill (There, happy now?)
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To: Chuckster

“All lost in the boating accident last year.”

I think we both had similar accidents! A good friend of mine gave me a heads up on why it is difficult or impossible to find a shotgun in a river or deep creek. The stock tends to act as a flotation device and the gun bobs along the bottom with the current. He did recovery work for years in the black water creeks of the low country and off shore of Myrtle Beach in the Atlantic Ocean.

I am sharing this info so when the feds search unsuccessfully for our firearms in the place where they went “overboard” , we can give them a plausible excuse. :)


37 posted on 10/23/2011 11:52:43 AM PDT by Big_Harry (Ecc10:2 "A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left")
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To: OldPossum

Sometimes it’s best not to admit to what one has.


38 posted on 10/23/2011 11:56:08 AM PDT by bgill (There, happy now?)
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To: Mikey_1962

“... we had 4 seasons: deer, pheasant, rabbit and hockey”.

You hunt hockey players in Michigan?! /s


39 posted on 10/23/2011 12:00:22 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: servantboy777
I'm absolutely amazed that folks are so willing to provide the world with information as to what they own....complete with pix.

You have a point, but as a well known local firearms instructor, I don't believe there is much chance to remain anonymous. I don't mind that the authorities realize that I am on good terms with my neighbors and that we are armed.

We are an asset to the local community and local peace officers, and they know it.

Put enough effort into tracking my url, and you could come up with a location, but the average burglar would not find it cost effective. If high level three letter agencies want more information on me, I am sure that I am in lots of data bases already.

40 posted on 10/23/2011 12:14:09 PM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: umgud

Ditto on the mossy. I’ve kept at least one Mossberg 500 close at hand for that last 20 years. Reliable, predictable, affordable... Current ‘favorite’ is outfitted with Pachmyr Vindicator kit (pistol grip and fore end). Only loads I’ve use in all this time? Alternated 00-buckshot and deer slug in the full 8-shot mag tube; and two ‘quick to grab’ 50-round bandoliers loaded the same way. Excellent tools...


41 posted on 10/23/2011 12:18:09 PM PDT by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Change we can look forward to.)
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To: bgill; All
What's the life, the *safe* life, of various boxes of this, that, and whatever that's stored in a dry place?

Most ammo, stored in a dry place that is reasonably cool (below 90 degrees F) will be in excellent shape for at least 50 years. I try to use up all my old ammo before that time frame. I have shot lots of ammo that is 50-60 years old, and it mostly works just fine. The problems arise from ammo that has been exposed to water or, worse, oil.

The NRA tested ammunition that was a bit over a hundred years old, and it generally worked very well.

If you are shooting old, questionable ammo, you do not have to worry about cartridges being overpressure and blowing your gun up (unless the cartridges are unknown reloads). What you have to worry about are squib rounds that stick a bullet in your barrel (shoot the next round without removing the obstruction and blow the gun up), hang fires that go click...boom, and misfires that do not work at all.

I do not worry about shooting old ammo, as long as it is in a situation that is not critical. I shot a bunch of 12 gauge that had gotten soaked and then dried, hunting dove. It nearly all was satisfactory, but I did get a few misfires and one hangfire. You just have to be aware, and do not shoot another shot until you check your bore, after getting a misfire or squib load.

42 posted on 10/23/2011 12:26:34 PM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: marktwain

Thanks. I’d heard that but still.


43 posted on 10/23/2011 12:37:46 PM PDT by bgill (There, happy now?)
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To: marktwain
and for jsut in case...


44 posted on 10/23/2011 12:38:36 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: marktwain

Here on the East Coast everybody has a 12 gauge shotgun and we use buckshot and slugs because its common for deer hunting. We prefer #4 buckshot (sometimes hard to find) over 00 due to the fact that you get more pellets per round and as we won’t be using the shotgun over 25 yards. Over 25 yards all others get M-4 or AK-74. LOL!

Federal’s good ammo. We also use Remington and Winchester. We currently have our Mossberg 500 tactical loaded with the first two rounds being Federal defense loads and the next four in 00 buck as we have not been able to find any #4 lately.

When we bought the Federal defense loads a couple of mos ago the guy behind the counter at Pro Bass very quietly said “I wouldn’t put those on my Bass Pro Shop reward card and I would pay cash”. He looked like former military and my fiancee’ kind of looks like a shooter which he is. Plus he had his US border patrol hat on so we got the picture. I’m just passing this on to all you freepers. We take that to mean the Feds are monitoring all ammo purchases and probably making Pro Bass cooperate. Livin in the USSA. Ain’t it grand?


45 posted on 10/23/2011 12:39:41 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2
it's called Buckshot, but don't get caught with it in the field during deer season here in ny... slugs only
46 posted on 10/23/2011 12:47:01 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Georgia Girl 2
When we bought the Federal defense loads a couple of mos ago the guy behind the counter at Pro Bass very quietly said “I wouldn’t put those on my Bass Pro Shop reward card and I would pay cash”.

Thanks for the heads up. As I stated before, I am pretty high profile already. I do believe in cash, though.

47 posted on 10/23/2011 12:47:27 PM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: OldPossum
Don't you people ever get tired of posting this unfunny, unwitty statement?

Do you people never tire of bragging about all the guns and ammo you have cached? Let me break it down into plain English for you.

Only a complete idiot would post a detailed inventory of his firearms and ammo on the internet.

48 posted on 10/23/2011 12:55:06 PM PDT by Chuckster (The longer I live the less I care about what you think.)
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To: Chode

You haven’t see the deer in GA. Probably 100-120 Lb average. We have an overpopulation and they are thin. You can take 13 per season. 2 Per day.


49 posted on 10/23/2011 12:55:56 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: marktwain
I ordered a case of what I think is the best buckshot out there, Federal LE 9 pellet 00 buck with the Flight Control wad. A person that I know well in a State Patrol said that they tested it extensively, and that it gave incredible patterns (about 6 inches at 25 yards).

Drywall stops buckshot too - if you're defending your family the worst outcome is accidently killing a sleeping child 3 rooms away...

50 posted on 10/23/2011 12:57:23 PM PDT by GOPJ (OWS - a scam to shift blame for unemployment and misery away from Obama..)
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