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Were the Nazis left-wing or right-wing
A Whig Manifesto Blog ^ | Oct. 27, 2011 | Chuck Morse

Posted on 10/27/2011 10:51:11 AM PDT by Chuckmorse

My co-host, liberalcommentator Dr. Patrick O’ Heffernan, raised this salient question during ourradio program The Fairness Doctrine. On October 26, we interviewed JoshuaRubenstein, the author of “Leon Trotsky-A Revolutionary Life.” Mr. Rubenstein mentionedwhat has become received wisdom which was that Stalin and the German Communistparty had helped to elect Hitler in 1933. I responded with the observation thatthe communists were probably motivated in their support for the Nazis by aninterest in turning Germany in a leftward political direction.

Rubenstein responded toPatrick’s follow-up question, in a condescending tone, that of course the Naziswere right-wing and that one should not be fooled by the word “Socialist” whichis part of the name of the National Socialist Nazi Party. Rubenstein based hisclaim that Nazism was right-wing on the claims that the Nazis were nationalistsand anti-Semites with the implication that these two principles should beconsidered as right-wing. This serious assertion, which constitutes conventionalthinking on the left, deserves a response.

Firstly, the right advocates,as I pointed out to Rubenstein, limited government and Hitler was not exactlyan advocate of limited government. The right understanding of nationalisminvolves an overall love of one’s home country whether that country is theUnited States, Canada, Mexico etc. The left understanding of nationalism, onthe other hand, involves a love of the State. In this sense the left ishyper-nationalist as opposed to the more conservative nationalism. The leftviews the State as a redemptive force that should be empowered to changesociety and to literally change human nature through programs thatre-distribute wealth from the private earner and through bureaucracies made upof “enlightened” experts who would use the force of law to inveigh themselvesinto all matters of the private lives of the citizen.

This, obviously, describesNazism to a tee. This also clarifies why the Nazis were “right-wing” in thatthey were to the right of the Communists who sought total control by the Stateover all aspects of human life in their quest to establish a world ant colony,what they called a “collective.” The Nazis supported State Socialism, a highdegree of public ownership within a super state. The Communists supported WorldSocialism, what they euphemistically referred to as Internationalism, andoutright total ownership of all property and business. This is why Communism isto the left of Nazism and Nazism is to the right of Communism. Both ideologiesand both systems are, obviously, to the left of the American system ofindividual rights and private ownership.

The second piece of evidencepresented by Josh Rubenstein in his assertion that Nazism is right-wing, thatNazism is anti-Semitic is more complex. It should be noted that there are anti-Semitesand racists on both the left and the right and in this regard the left ishardly pure. As a matter of philosophy, the right rejects anti-Semitism andracism as these tendencies represent “barnyard socialism” as was noted byconservative philosopher Ayn Rand. Indeed anti-Semitism and racism assigncollective characteristics to groups of people based upon their ancestry andthis idea runs contrary to the core conservative tenet which is respect for theinherent rights of the individual. Judaism and Christianity, when viewed asphilosophies, also reject racism as the Judeo-Christian understanding is thateach and every individual is uniquely created in the image of God and shouldnot be in any way viewed as part of any group. This view explains in part why bothNazism and Communism were anti-Jewish and anti-Christian.

Furthermore, it should benoted, the father of Communism, Karl Marx, was a vicious anti-Semite who referredto Jews in his 1843 book “On the Jewish Question” as “self-interested hucksterswho should be annihilated. Marx also profoundly influenced Hitler how creditshim with providing the foundation of his political education in his autobiographyMein Kampf.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: bob152; communism; nazi; nazism; politics; socialism
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1 posted on 10/27/2011 10:51:15 AM PDT by Chuckmorse
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To: Chuckmorse
nazi=NATIONAL SOCIALIST

To ask the question is ignorance personified.

LLS

2 posted on 10/27/2011 10:57:10 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer ("Americans are hungry to feel once again a sense of mission and greatness." Ronaldo Magnus)
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To: Chuckmorse
Here in America the National Socialist Democrat Workers Party (Nationalsozialistische Democrat Arbeiterpartei, abbreviated NSDAP or simply “the Nazi Party”, or even more simply “the Democrats”) use strongarm tactics to remove Christianity from public view, populate the universities and newsrooms to rewrite history and propagandize the daily news, attack traditional cultural institutions like marriage, the nuclear family, and even the Boy Scouts, and personally destroy scientists and professors who do not toe the line with regard to Democrat Party doctrine on abortion, embryonic stem cells, the environment, and “global warming”.

Naturally, imposing rationed state-controlled health care on the masses, threatening to suppress opposing opinion and free speech through a “fairness doctrine”, and using quasi-terrorist tactics to stonewall any attempt to roll back socialism (for example, legislators in Wisconsin fleeing the state with a clap on the back from Fuhrer Ubama in order to prevent a vote on pending legislation) perfectly fits the modus operandi of America's own 21st century Nazi party.

In other words, America’s Democrats are operating in EXACTLY the same way the original version of their party operated in Germany during the 1930s.


3 posted on 10/27/2011 10:57:35 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Chuckmorse

They were evil control freak totalitarians - just like the communists. That’s ALL that matters.


4 posted on 10/27/2011 10:58:08 AM PDT by GOPJ ( Democrats are the only reason to vote for Republicans.... Will Rogers)
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To: Chuckmorse
Perhaps this 1920 letter of Lenin will help. It identifies right wing socialists.

Lenin 1920 letter defining right wing socialists

5 posted on 10/27/2011 10:59:29 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: Chuckmorse
We are quite sophisticated around here at FR. Obviously everything we don't like is leftwing and everything we like is rightwing.

Justin Bieber, for example, is leftwing.

Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are rightwing.

6 posted on 10/27/2011 11:00:36 AM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Chuckmorse
The way I explained it to my kids was the following: the communists and the Nazis were more similar than different. For the commies, their foundation was class demonization and warfare; for the Nazis it was ethnic warfare and demonization of others (Jews, Slavs, etc.). Nationalism (hence "National Socialism") versus classism.

But BOTH were from the left.

7 posted on 10/27/2011 11:02:21 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must...)
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To: LibLieSlayer

nazi=NATIONAL SOCIALIST
To ask the question is ignorance personified.

LLS

ME: that’s cause libs like to redefine even obvious terms, to fit their worldview....


8 posted on 10/27/2011 11:02:47 AM PDT by raygunfan
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To: Chuckmorse

“Rubenstein based hisclaim that Nazism was right-wing on the claims that the Nazis were nationalistsand anti-Semites with the implication that these two principles should beconsidered as right-wing.”

The Communists of the Soviet Union were nationalists and anti-Semites (in the latter case, more hostile to the religion than the ethnicity). Does that make them right wing?


9 posted on 10/27/2011 11:03:49 AM PDT by rightwingcrazy
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To: Chuckmorse

The NAZIs had no room for “wings.” They ran the whole show and brooked no opposition.


10 posted on 10/27/2011 11:04:09 AM PDT by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: LibLieSlayer

exactly.


11 posted on 10/27/2011 11:04:51 AM PDT by GOP Poet (Obama is an OLYMPIC failure.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

—Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are rightwing.—

You are ignoring important nuances. Chunky is rightwing. Creamy is leftwing.


12 posted on 10/27/2011 11:05:44 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Chuckmorse
NAZI.

or NSDAP.

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei.

Translated: National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Any other questions?

13 posted on 10/27/2011 11:06:04 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Attacking Wall Street because you're jobless is like burning down Whole Foods because you're hungry.)
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To: Chuckmorse

Good analysis.

Its always interesting to see how most people today claim Nazi = right wing. I guess words mean whatever people want them to mean anymore.

As to the anti Semitic aspect of National Socialism, I think that’s basically orthagonal to the whole issue.

To the extent that it’s racist, racism knows no political ideology.


14 posted on 10/27/2011 11:06:04 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: Chuckmorse
Communists seek to own the means of production.

Fascists seek to control the means of production.

That is the only difference between these two totalitarian political systems. They are as different as chalk ... and chalk.

To illustrate the identity between these two flavors of totalitarianism: here are images of two 1917 Bolshevik notes: a 250 rouble note and a 1000 rouble note. Can anybody spot the symbol in the center of each one? (hint: look behind the double eagle?)


15 posted on 10/27/2011 11:07:20 AM PDT by agere_contra ("Debt is the foundation of destruction" : Sarah Palin.)
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To: Chuckmorse

The whole who was left and who was right question is commonly asked on liberal message boards. It’s because they are so startlingly ignorant of history and the shifting meanings of words. When arguing on such sites, my first post usually includes a Who lyric: “The party on the left is now the party on the right.”

I then build from there to expose the lunacy of the question.


16 posted on 10/27/2011 11:08:00 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

“Obviously everything we don’t like is leftwing and everything we like is rightwing.”

LOL! Yeah, that’s pretty true!


17 posted on 10/27/2011 11:09:08 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: cuban leaf

“You are ignoring important nuances. Chunky is rightwing. Creamy is leftwing.”

And getting them mixed together in the same jar is pure Anarchy!


18 posted on 10/27/2011 11:11:03 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: agere_contra

—They are as different as chalk ... and chalk. —

That’s bs. They are as different as grey and gray.

:-D


19 posted on 10/27/2011 11:11:03 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Chuckmorse

HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST

http://ray-dox.blogspot.com/2006/08/this-article-is-published-on-internet.html


20 posted on 10/27/2011 11:12:44 AM PDT by ventanax5
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To: GOPJ
Nazis and Commies imagine differences ~ but to any outsider there's nothing meaningful in it.

They are all bad.

21 posted on 10/27/2011 11:13:13 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Pessimist

Stalin killed more Jews than Hitler.


22 posted on 10/27/2011 11:13:13 AM PDT by cruise_missile
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To: Lancey Howard
David Axelrod.


23 posted on 10/27/2011 11:13:21 AM PDT by jessduntno ("They say the world has become too complex for simple answers... they are wrong." - RR)
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To: Chuckmorse
The left/right thing isn't a valid concept. It exists only to create an illusion. If you're going to have a boot planted on the back of your neck does it matter whether it is a right boot or a left boot?

Socialism is communism and Facism is just a slightly different package. All lead to the same end.

We get called right wingers here, someone hopes we will be compared to Nazis. Truth is there probably isn't a group of people anywhere more opposed to all the Nazi's stand for than Freepers.

24 posted on 10/27/2011 11:14:59 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: rustbucket
Very enlightening.
This shows that the left/right discussion has been from the perspective of revolutionary communists which is irrelevant, not from the center/right American context.

To paraphrase the old joke: "To you he's a left winger and to me he's a left winger; but to a left winger is he a left winger?"

Anyone who sees this and denies the Nazis were leftists is either stupid or mendacious.

25 posted on 10/27/2011 11:15:07 AM PDT by stormhill
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To: Chuckmorse

Adolf was impressed with the early Progressives. Especially, what they were doing in the field of eugenics.
Look into it.
Adolf would have fit in nicely with any number of the leftist organizations of today.
While you are at it look into who is anti-slavery party, who voted in favor of the ‘64 civil Right Act, who gave us the KKK, Jim Crowe, and prohibition.
The left, with the help of the lame brain media, would have us believe that up is down and down is up.


26 posted on 10/27/2011 11:16:59 AM PDT by Leep
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To: agere_contra

I’ve never seen those images before. Thanks for posting them.


27 posted on 10/27/2011 11:19:47 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: Chuckmorse

The term “statist” helps clear the air. Draw a scale with pure state on one end and no state on the other. The question posed is:

Do individuals exist for the benefit of the state, or do states exist for the benefit of individuals.

Based on the response to that question place the political system on the line.

Clearly Nazism and Communism are statist systems. Libertarians take up a location on the far right of that line. Republican forms of government reside in the center.

Only a clueless individual would attempt to lump Nazis with libertarians.

Historically, people have been confused because Hitler and Stalin had a falling out and fought each other. The left jumps to the simplistic conclusion that they must be polar opposites. Our history books contribute to the confusion by many times neglecting to mention that Hitler and Stalin were allies at the beginning of the war. The correct viewpoint can be arrived at by pointing out that Trotsky and Stalin also had a falling out, but one would hardly confuse Trotsky with a right-winger.

Another point of confusion is that many times the hard-line left poses as anarchists; i.e., those who oppose government. Of course, this is just the story of the “pigs” in Animal Farm. They really only oppose governments where they do not exert control. Only the foolish are duped.


28 posted on 10/27/2011 11:22:30 AM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: LibLieSlayer
This article did a good job, with brevity, of demonstrating the lie that comes out of the Left, that everyone to the right of them is as "right wing" as the Nazis.

We can now say that the Nazis are only "right wing" in a world represented only by the Communists/Socialists on one side and Nazis on the other. But, in a real world, in this world, both Nazis and Communists are to the far Left, and standing very close together on the far Left, of American Conservatives."©Wuli

From an American Conservative perspective, where Nazis and Communists/Socialists agree is far more than where they differ, while they both differ greatly from American Conservatives.

29 posted on 10/27/2011 11:23:35 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Chuckmorse

People love to reduce complex things to a single value on a number line.

Ok. Hitler was a 97. Stalin 85. Obama 150.


30 posted on 10/27/2011 11:24:47 AM PDT by DManA
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To: agere_contra
Kept looking at that thing and couldn't see it. Thanks for the hint.

Amazing! A swastika...

31 posted on 10/27/2011 11:26:07 AM PDT by stormhill
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To: Chuckmorse
Well, they were pro-abortion.
32 posted on 10/27/2011 11:28:37 AM PDT by fungoking (Tis a pleasure to live in the Ozarks)
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To: DManA
Ok. Hitler was a 97. Stalin 85. Obama 150.

Wrong!!

Obama = 0!

33 posted on 10/27/2011 11:31:17 AM PDT by stormhill
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To: Chuckmorse
Rubenstein based his claim that Nazism was right-wing on the claims that the Nazis were nationalists and anti-Semites with the implication that these two principles should be considered as right-wing.

It is well known that the vast majority of the anti-Semites in the world are either libtards or Mooselimbs. Both species of rodent are a good fit for the ideology of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.


34 posted on 10/27/2011 11:38:58 AM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Chuckmorse

Ping


35 posted on 10/27/2011 11:40:09 AM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: Chuckmorse

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei - National Socialist German Worker’s Party. They were pure leftists through and through, right down to the classic anti-Semitism of the left.


36 posted on 10/27/2011 11:45:44 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: muawiyah
Nazis and Commies imagine differences ...

You're right, mawiyah.

You and I know "who controls the means of production" is meaningless compared to the mass killings that go along with each philosophy - or the systems of secret police repression and totalitarian control that both use.

Communism and fascism have so much in common with each other that for anyone to nit pick differences based on 'means of production' or 'left or right' is bizarre.

37 posted on 10/27/2011 11:46:49 AM PDT by GOPJ ( Democrats are the only reason to vote for Republicans.... Will Rogers)
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To: raygunfan

Amen RGF!

LLS


38 posted on 10/27/2011 11:48:30 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer ("Americans are hungry to feel once again a sense of mission and greatness." Ronaldo Magnus)
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To: GOP Poet

Thank you.

LLS


39 posted on 10/27/2011 11:49:19 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer ("Americans are hungry to feel once again a sense of mission and greatness." Ronaldo Magnus)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
The left/right thing isn't a valid concept. It exists only to create an illusion. If you're going to have a boot planted on the back of your neck does it matter whether it is a right boot or a left boot?

When I read something like the above, I know why I appreciate Freepers so much.

It IS the boot that matters.

It IS ONLY the boot that matters - all else is illusion...

40 posted on 10/27/2011 11:51:27 AM PDT by GOPJ ( Democrats are the only reason to vote for Republicans.... Will Rogers)
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To: LibLieSlayer

And the NSDAP political platform of the 1920s and 1930s is full of socialist planks of the sort familiar to Democrats and OWSers today.

“Nazis are right wing” is a big lie that the Left started pushing immediately post-WWII, because they had to. Any thinking person saw the many similarities between the Communists and the Nazis, and with both to the socialists. For more on that, see the Hayek quote on my FR profile page. It’s the 3rd one, two paragraphs long.


41 posted on 10/27/2011 11:52:48 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

My gosh, you take out the word German, stick in Democrat and it all makes sense. The National Socialist Democrat Workers Party.


42 posted on 10/27/2011 11:57:46 AM PDT by Bitsy
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To: Pharmboy

The Nazis fought the German Communists for control of Germany, not unlike a “turf war” between two street gangs.


43 posted on 10/27/2011 12:03:55 PM PDT by reg45 (I'm not angry that Lincoln freed the slaves. I'm angry that Franklin Roosevelt bought them back.)
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To: Chuckmorse

Forget about the Left or Right canard when talking to the convertable.

Ask, what systems are most Statist? The answer to that puts the North Koreans at one extreme followed by Soviets, facists, and socialist democracies. Dictatorships and monarchies slide up and down in between based on the person in charge.

At the other end of the spectrum you have a man living alone in nature. Next to that are loose agreements of confederation, communal property (roads) etc., working up to 1776 America.


44 posted on 10/27/2011 12:04:02 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Bitsy
Sure does sound familiar, huh?

And they call the GOP Nazis? It is to laugh.

I think the psychiatrists call it 'projection'.

45 posted on 10/27/2011 12:12:47 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Attacking Wall Street because you're jobless is like burning down Whole Foods because you're hungry.)
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To: reg45
Indeed...it was the Brownshirts [SA] (National Socialists) vs. the Marxist socialists. They fought in the streets in the early '20s. From wiki:

From April 1924 until late February 1925 the SA was known as the Frontbann to try to circumvent Bavaria's ban on the Nazi Party and its organs (instituted after the abortive Beer Hall putsch of November 1923). The SA carried out numerous acts of violence against competing socialist groups throughout the 1920s, typically in minor street-fights called Zusammenstöße ('collisions'). As the Nazis evolved from an extremist political party to the unquestioned leaders of the government, the SA was no longer needed for its original purpose: the acquisition of political power. An organization that could inflict more subtle terror and obedience was needed, and the SA (which had been born out of street violence and beer hall brawls) was simply not capable of doing so. The SA also posed a threat to the Nazi leadership and to Hitler's goal of co-opting the Reichswehr to his ends, as Röhm's ideal was to incorporate the "antiquated" German army into a new "people's army": the SA. The younger SS was more suited to this task and began to take over the previously held roles of the SA.

46 posted on 10/27/2011 12:13:02 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must...)
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47 posted on 10/27/2011 12:22:13 PM PDT by RedMDer (Forward With Confidence!)
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To: Wuli

In Europe, Hitler was considered right wing in that he was only slightly to the right of Stalin. European ideas of the political spectrum differ from ours and we should point out that fact.


48 posted on 10/27/2011 12:26:01 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: the_Watchman
Historically, people have been confused because Hitler and Stalin had a falling out and fought each other. The left jumps to the simplistic conclusion that they must be polar opposites. Our history books contribute to the confusion by many times neglecting to mention that Hitler and Stalin were allies at the beginning of the war. The correct viewpoint can be arrived at by pointing out that Trotsky and Stalin also had a falling out, but one would hardly confuse Trotsky with a right-winger

Actually, that is a brilliant argument! I guess that Trotsky gets a pass because, whereas Hitler had a country of his own with which to oppose Stalin, Leon only had a Mexican villa.

Now that I think about it, they were like an evil version of the Three Little Bears. Hitler's socialism was too nationalist, Trotsky's socialism was too internationalist, but the Left finds Stalin's socialism to be just right.

49 posted on 10/27/2011 12:39:44 PM PDT by Brass Lamp
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To: FreedomPoster
EXACTLY like the nazis... including anti Semitic chants and calls to kill the Jews... nazis are nazis... in 1930’s Berlin or NY today.

LLS

50 posted on 10/27/2011 1:03:53 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer ("Americans are hungry to feel once again a sense of mission and greatness." Ronaldo Magnus)
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