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Obama/Cameron/Sarko's 'New Libya' Descending Into Violent, Medieval Chaos
Reaganite Republican ^ | November 23, 2011 | Reaganite Republican

Posted on 11/24/2011 8:26:45 AM PST by Reaganite Republican

"...a deep and spreading frenzy, particularly among 
some of the youth militia and the Islamists..."

Vengeance hangs thick in the air of post-Gaddafi Libya, where just about anybody can be cornered and accused by roving bands of witch-huntin' rebels of being a 'former regime loyalist'. This includes much of the nominal NTC leadership, adding to their own individual fears of rebel militias they have little or no control over.

Besides 'justice' of the sort spontaneously administered to Muammar Gaddafi, they've shipped-off over 7000 folks they didn't like the looks of to concentration camps and old regime prisons. With no working justice system in place whatsoever, it's difficult to ascertain just what awaits these hapless individuals.

But the real problem is infighting amongst Libya's six hunded (!) armed-to-the-teeth tribes, some of whom have been going at it since Roman times, and now itching to try out their cool  new toys on each other.

Anyone who expected this hyper-fractionalized society to get along now that they're no longer being forced to by Gaddafi  -and with newly acquired weapons- and should consider the eye-for-an-eye, zero sum mentality that permeates this archaic region of the world. 

In tribal Arab lands such as Libya (where kindness means weakness), many of these clans -often from neighboring towns- will locked in a cycle of hatred and vengeance (like a dog chasing it's own tail) 'til the Sun goes supernova

Now thanks to NATO, it's like if you gave both the Hatfields and McCoys an infantry division and told them to 'play nice'. The only thing holding the rebels together previously was opposition to Gaddafi. With him gone/heir apparent Saif al-Islam Gaddafi now captured (video below), that unity is sure to dissolve- and we're seeing a bit of that already.

I am sorry to say it, but Libya, Egypt, and likely Syria will be unmitigated disasters by the time it's all said and done, as the only stable scenarios now look to involve Islamic dictatorships, ala Iran. This ghastly situation in the ME will be the direct result of an incompetent, aloof, and clueless 'lead from behind' Obama foreign policy. ,

If the media in the US would have fulfilled their (unwritten) Constitutional duty (implicit in the right to a free press) to keep the president on his toes, perhaps Dear Leader would have had to explain some while back why we're borrowing money just to turn countries into scenes from Mad Max- and for no benefit to the US whatsoever.

So take the ball and run with it, GOP:  the United States is about to enter a new, Republican-ruled era where our own country's commercial and security interests should take precedent over all other considerations in foreign policy- exactly same as you'd expect from the Chinese, Russians, or pretty much anybody else (except us, to this point). 

Barack Obama -who never had any idea who he was helping in Libya- now owns this mess, yet the case for war was philosophically contrary to almost everything he's ever said in the past, particularly when bloviating on Bush/Iraq in 2006-2008. 

Thus, the issue provides a golden opportunity: imho, today's GOP should now go all-out with a new "America First" policy, not isolationist in the Ron Paul or Pat Buchanan vein -nor the nation-building Freedom Agenda of the Bush era- but actually as characterized in that quote by Donald Trump a few months back: 'I'm only interested in Libya if we take the oil'. 

Just ask yourself for a minute if the Chinese or Russians would lift a finger anywhere without expecting major military basing, oil, or mineral concessions... please. 

And us? Broke-as-a-joke, while facing soaring international competition for resources, trade, and strategic assets: time to focus on securing this country's future peace through strength on all these fronts, we don't have time nor money for anything else at this point- that's just the reality.

There is zero need to try and 'spread democracy' to countries with the Islamists waiting in the wings to grab the power levers (and that means in the imaginary nation of 'Palestine', too).

Meanwhile, the United States of America teeters on the edge of default while we waste valuable resources giving Al Qaeda and the Islamic Brotherhood their own countries.

Yet, those in the West unaware or willfully ignorant of how only dictators have any real staying power in the Middle East are about to receive an abject lesson in just why that is.  Whether Libya shatters into tribal factions or consolidates into an unpalatable Islamic caliphate, it can always get worse than the devil-you-know: this country now possesses all the ingredients necessary for a number of unwelcome scenarios for the West.

Here recently captured Saif al-Islam Gaddafi warns the rebels who captured him of the 'untrustworthy' Islamist leaders they're empowering in Libya today:
For all Gaddafi's crimes and atrocities of the 1980s and 90s, by the mid-2000s he was about the only ME dictator who was working to appease the West: you can laugh at his outfits and theatrics, but the Libyan despot turned over the Locherbie bombers/payed compensation to victims, was doing deals with BP, winding down weapons programs, co-ordinating in the global war on terror, etc. This Reaganite did not change on the issue of Gaddafi:  rather, it was he who had changed, and pretty much everything we have been asking him for.

Col Gaddafi also did not allow Islamist terrorists in Libya. 
This was mostly out of self-interest... but why should that matter?

How grateful do you think the new regime 
will be in -say- five years, btw? 

And how many terrorists do you think 
are in the country now...?

Video/pics/more at Reaganite Republican

_________________________________________________
Gateway Pundit   WaPo   The Telegraph   The Independent   Christian Science Monitor


TOPICS: Government; History; Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: alqaeda; france; libya; nato; obama; opec; terrorists; unitedkingdom

1 posted on 11/24/2011 8:26:50 AM PST by Reaganite Republican
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To: Reaganite Republican

Now remember....Obama said we weren’t REALLY involved.


2 posted on 11/24/2011 8:29:48 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Reaganite Republican

“Gee, nobody saw this coming!”
~~a typical libtard


3 posted on 11/24/2011 8:31:21 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Reaganite Republican

One notes that the ONLY Middle East patch of land that changed government since World War II and has not descended into a barbaric, chaotic, blood bath populated by 80 IQ, psychopathic, kleptomaniacal goat-herders is ... Israel! More than coincidence?


4 posted on 11/24/2011 8:31:36 AM PST by pabianice (")
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To: Reaganite Republican

Occupy Libya! Calling all anarchist and tweebs in the U.S. Ask mommy and daddy for airfare to Libya. You can camp out in a spacious desert. Take a crap anywhere! It’s all crap! Stay forever!


5 posted on 11/24/2011 8:31:47 AM PST by Doc Savage ("I've shot people I like a lot more,...for a lot less!" Raylan Givins)
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To: Reaganite Republican

This is a Muslim state and they’re all crazy. At least Ghaddaffi had them under control....


6 posted on 11/24/2011 8:32:27 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau

“At least Ghaddaffi had them under control....”
______________________________________________

My point exactly... and we had HIM largely under control as well


7 posted on 11/24/2011 8:35:58 AM PST by Reaganite Republican
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To: Sacajaweau
Now remember....Obama said we weren’t REALLY involved.

Well, now, that's not really fair to Circus Maximus (or however you say Our Dear Leader in French).

It depends on the nature of the story.

If it's good news, then Urkel single-handedly brought peace and Democracy to Lybia (official White House spelling) just like he single-handedly conceived, planned and carried out the raid on bin Laden.

But if it's bad news, such as this story or the death of 30 Navy SEALs who are shot out of the sky, well, you can't really hold him accountable.

8 posted on 11/24/2011 8:36:31 AM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: Reaganite Republican

This was all about assassination.


9 posted on 11/24/2011 8:38:34 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Reaganite Republican

Egypt — We got involved; now there is chaos and violence
Libya — We got involved; now there is chaos and violence

Syria — they already have chaos and violence, so our involvement is not needed


10 posted on 11/24/2011 8:38:44 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Roll the stone away, Let the guilty pay, It's Independence Day)
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To: Reaganite Republican
Amazing. Sounds almost exactly how The French Revolution evolved. It wasn't long before accusers were being accused themselves and blood was running thick through the streets.

I guess history really does repeat itself.

It's just a matter of time before Napoleon rises in Libya. That should be fun.

11 posted on 11/24/2011 8:41:08 AM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: Sacajaweau
At least Ghaddaffi had them under control....

Just as Saddam Hussein had the shiites under control. Now, thanks to the poseur's foreign policy (or lack thereof), the ME has become even more of a flaming hell hole.

12 posted on 11/24/2011 8:42:53 AM PST by Salvey
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To: Reaganite Republican
“At least Ghaddaffi had them under control....”
My point exactly... and we had HIM largely under control as well

The old State Depaertment joke applies here: "Yes, he's a bastard, but he's OUR bastard."

13 posted on 11/24/2011 8:42:58 AM PST by Oatka (This is the USA, assimilate or evaporate.)
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To: Reaganite Republican

anyone that believes we can help establish “democracy”

in many countries, much less islamic, is nuts!

we can’t even manage our ballot boxes and computers.


14 posted on 11/24/2011 8:44:00 AM PST by ken21
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To: Reaganite Republican
I am sorry to say it, but Libya, Egypt, and likely Syria will be unmitigated disasters by the time it's all said and done, as the only stable scenarios now look to involve Islamic dictatorships, ala Iran.

Agreed. But I would also add Afghanistan and Iraq to that list. Do not let Bush II off the hook just because he has an R next to his name.

The present turmoil in the region is a shared failure, Bush II and Obama.

15 posted on 11/24/2011 8:44:35 AM PST by Leaning Right (Why am I carrying this lantern? you ask. I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: Sacajaweau
This is a Muslim state and they’re all crazy. At least Ghaddaffi had them under control....

The Strong Man state form seems to be the only thing that works in that region.
Except Israel. Yet another reason for Muslims to hate them.

16 posted on 11/24/2011 8:48:18 AM PST by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: ken21

Democracy is Mob Rule. Democratic Republic is the basis for Freedom.


17 posted on 11/24/2011 8:49:49 AM PST by mazda77 (and I am a Native Texan)
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To: pabianice

This will not change until the cult of Islam is destroyed and replaced with true christianity....


18 posted on 11/24/2011 8:53:12 AM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
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To: Oatka

Yep, very apt

We no longer can afford the luxury of trying to liberate the world, and peoples not ready for anything beyond a 7th Century form of governance

Only useful bastards for me lol


19 posted on 11/24/2011 8:53:34 AM PST by Reaganite Republican
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To: mazda77

yeah.

i put “democracy” in quotes so that everyone would get it.


20 posted on 11/24/2011 8:57:23 AM PST by ken21
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To: ClearCase_guy

The Arab Spring is coiling to spring on Israel. Thanks Barry. Thanks Hillary. Thanks Huma. What was that about extending a hand to clenched fist and “fixing” the Bush Foreign Policy?


21 posted on 11/24/2011 9:00:54 AM PST by SERKIT ("Blazing Saddles" explains it all......)
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To: Sacajaweau

Well, he sure can’t blame it on Congress!


22 posted on 11/24/2011 9:02:13 AM PST by RoosterRedux
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To: ken21

10-4. I just wanted to make sure any trolls got it too.


23 posted on 11/24/2011 9:02:20 AM PST by mazda77 (and I am a Native Texan)
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To: Reaganite Republican

As long as they are fighting each other they aren’t fighting us or Israel.

I feel badly for the Christians there, but as for the Mussies, send them more bullets.


24 posted on 11/24/2011 9:28:06 AM PST by Venturer
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To: BitWielder1
The Strong Man state form seems to be the only thing that works in that region.

I worked in Kuwait in the '80s (first time in the ME), and one of my self-appointed lunch-time perks was to buy a couple of gyro-type sandwiches, a half-liter of water, and sit in an outdoor cafe watching the guys in traffic trying to kill each other. Rampant anarchy when only the "yield to the left" tacit agreement was in place at the intersections. Then one day they had a cop directing traffic and everything became orderly. That's when I came to the same conclusion that you did.

25 posted on 11/24/2011 9:48:48 AM PST by Oatka (This is the USA, assimilate or evaporate.)
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To: Reaganite Republican
New Libya = Old Somalia (+ some oil)

(Doesn't change the fact that Ghaddaffi was a bat sh!t crazy scumbag, and good riddance to him and his clan of lunatics. Now for the new batch of lunatics...da capo al fine)

26 posted on 11/24/2011 12:11:55 PM PST by Moltke (Always retaliate first.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks Reaganite Republican.


27 posted on 11/24/2011 10:25:50 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Reaganite Republican
Meanwhile...at the market in Misrata...


28 posted on 11/24/2011 10:56:45 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Reaganite Republican
They have promised the young unemployed thru American radical groups and American union thugs planted in these areas that this is the way to democracy. They lied, they are complicit, they are responsible, they have blood on thier hands
29 posted on 11/25/2011 4:51:27 AM PST by ronnie raygun (V)
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