Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Sven Kullander On Rossi And eCat
Independent ECat News ^ | November 23, 2011 | admin

Posted on 11/24/2011 10:44:11 AM PST by Kevmo


Sven Kullander On Rossi And eCat
admin on November 23, 2011 — 6 Comments

http://ecatnews.com/?p=1409
The following was posted on the Facebook Energy Catalyzer page. It comes from Hampus Ericsson who attended Sven Kullander’s Örebro talk today. Kullander has been a key player in gaining Rossi credibility in the past few months. Taken in the sweep, it appears to me that he believes in Rossi and his claims but reserves the right to be wrong until definitive independent tests drive the nail home. His comment about AR’s prickly response to anyone who distrusts him is interesting. This flies counter to his public stance on genuine scepticism. No scientist should work completely on trust. No scientist will truly trust him/herself. Perhaps the comment relates to personal attacks on his integrity. That I would understand. He is right to be angry at those type of attacks.

I couldn’t stay for all of it because I have a train to catch. The lecture was good. He started by going I’ve all different types of nuclear power. And then he talked about hot fusion and when that might be functional.

Then the good par came, he talked about all the different test that have been made of Rossi’s ecat( basically read the NyTeknik reports.

Then he talked about his own test, he said that it proved that heat was made but he couldn’t say how, and he dont believe it’s cold fusion because that impossible by today’s science. But it could only be explained by cold fusion happening. He was very confused .

He also said that Rossi is definitely not a fraud and that his friend Focardi and Levi is absolutely not frauds. They are his friends and he trust them.
Rossi on the other had he said to be a black box.
He said that NASA had contacted him and asked about rossis ecat. So NASA was the first American customer that bailed. Apparently they wanted to know how it worked and Rossi wanted to keep the secret for himself.

Sven kullander did not know who the final costumer is.

He also said that Rossi can be a little bit angry at people who don’t trust him. That’s why Sven have kept on Rossi god side and never told him that it don’t work.

Sven said that he have asked Rossi if Uppsala university can independently test the device, with the demand that all information will be reveled to the public. If Rossi says no to this Uppsala will not test the device.

One of the most interesting thins was that Sven kullander sad that Focardi and Levi are both excellent professor that he believe a 100% in, Rossi on the other hand is a little bit of a black box. He said that there are two black boxes in this history, Rossi and he ecat.

He also said that his colleague Roland Peterson (think that was his name) is very positive on the ecat.

Sven also showed the test of the nickel fuel and the copper nickel that is left after the reaction. They will come out with a full article on this when all the testing is done. But the first test show copper in the waste

[With thanks to Akira Shirakawa on Vortex]



-------------------------------------------------------------------





More On The Sven Kullander eCat Talk
admin on November 24, 2011 — 11 Comments

http://ecatnews.com/?p=1416&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ecatnews%2FAdFD+%28+%C2%BB+eCatNews+-+Rossi%E2%80%99s+Cold+Fusion+2.0%29


The pedigree of Sven Kullander and Hanno Essen is interesting. From Wikipedia:
Professor Kullander is professor emeritus of High Energy Physics at Uppsala University. Kullander received his doctorate from Uppsala University in 1971. Since 1990, Kullander has been a member of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences and chairman of its Energy Committee
Hanno Essén is an associate professor of theoretical physics and a lecturer at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society
Their role in the Andrea Rossi affair began when they expressed an interest in the eCat and then attended a Bologna demo. During that demo, the eCat seemed to produce around 5kW of heat from a small sealed vessel (50 ccm) containing Hydrogen and Nickel. They were allowed to check for hidden conduits and examine the instruments and various elements of the system. They were not allowed access to the core but since it was small and the claimed energy large, it was reasonable to treat the device as a black box to determine its utility.

In many of the arguments posed by reasonable and unreasonable sceptics alike, doubt is often cast on those attending these events. Various inventions are created to explain why otherwise intelligent people could be so stupid as to fall for Rossi’s tricks. Senility, stupidity, human error, dishonesty, fraud and gullibility are all wheeled out in turn. If you have been there and leave believing the claim might be real, there has to be something wrong – you are either in on the scam or too dumb to see it.

No one can accuse Kullander or Essen of not being independent. How often have we heard that a scammer would never let an independent and qualified scientist near their scamming machine? And yet, here we have two physicists, both active and experienced, one the chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences’ (of Nobel fame) Energy Committee and the other the former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics’ Society and both allowed dangerous and intimate access to a working eCat.

Both scientists are well aware that what they saw and measured does not constitute proof and neither can say with certainty that Rossi’s claims are true. They would be foolish to do so. Indeed both admit that they could not check everything and although they do not suspect fraud, they have to leave that door open as a small possibility.

They published a travel report detailing the demo and results and expressing their belief that (assuming no fraud) the eCat was producing so much energy that it had to be nuclear in origin.

For many months, both scientists remained out of the light and some hard sceptics wondered if they were distancing themselves from Rossi and that report – now embarrassed that they had ever been involved. However, recently Kullander has begun to publicly reveal his current thinking and yesterday gave a talk (Swedish) to an audience in Örebro. Today, Ny Teknik, the Swedish magazine responsible for extensive reporting throughout the year has published a pdf of that talk. Together with an audio recording by a member of the audience (again, in Swedish) and a variety of interpretations from around the Net, we begin to get a good idea of Kullander’s current view of Rossi and the eCat. It is nuanced and intelligent and does not conform to that expected of the term ‘Believer’.

To be fair, I doubt a reasonable sceptic would place that moniker on him as the scientist clearly leaves room for his conclusions to be wrong. That said, most of us have read others who are less supportive than Kullander being labeled as a believer as though the tag could colour you gullible.

The following has been Googleized from a report by Bertil Nilsson on a Swedish forum discussing Kullander’s talk (here is the audio):
Biggest “scoop” is well that, according to Rossi, it works without a catalyst. It can be measured net energy even with only nickel and hydrogen. He says that as a reason why his patent to go through. But it opens the course for the reproduction of this, we have many who can kalimoetri precision now after all the thinking.

Kullander is deeply skeptical of the proton capture of nickel, believes that there are other possibilities. He outlined a number of them, but I must return later. I can not enough to sum up the piece. He was puzzled by the presence of natural copper in the ash, but a detailed isotopic analysis is expected to be ready for Christmas
Kullander told further about their personal experiences of a large number of people at the University of Bologna has been more or less concerned about the ECAT, the most active of course Focardi and Levi. He feels these people knowledgeable and up to serious, from the president down. Kullander feel even Rossi as sincere and serious and a very knowledgeable and skilled engineer but somewhat discursive reasoning when entering the field of physics. He also talked about discussions he had with Levi for a large number of tests that are not described but conducted by Levi, who personally knows the ECAT works.

Kullander believes that Rossi for their own sake must be sure to get an independent verification of heat output and that he was not to be overtaken should ally itself with some great players, like Siemens or ABB. One problem here may be that Rossi has a deep personal relationship with their cats, as he usually describe them. Kullander has offered Rossi to test and verify an ECAT in Uppsala in collaboration with the University of Bologna. Discussions on this are ongoing. Kullander preclude an agreement whereby secrecy around that they have an ECAT in place or that the results may not be shown publicly.

The above is in addition to yesterday’s report which I repeat here:
I couldn’t stay for all of it because I have a train to catch. The lecture was good. He started by going I’ve all different types of nuclear power. And then he talked about hot fusion and when that might be functional.

Then the good par came, he talked about all the different test that have been made of Rossi’s ecat( basically read the NyTeknik reports.

Then he talked about his own test, he said that it proved that heat was made but he couldn’t say how, and he dont believe it’s cold fusion because that impossible by today’s science. But it could only be explained by cold fusion happening. He was very confused .

He also said that Rossi is definitely not a fraud and that his friend Focardi and Levi is absolutely not frauds. They are his friends and he trust them.
Rossi on the other had he said to be a black box.
He said that NASA had contacted him and asked about rossis ecat. So NASA was the first American customer that bailed. Apparently they wanted to know how it worked and Rossi wanted to keep the secret for himself.

Sven kullander did not know who the final costumer is.

He also said that Rossi can be a little bit angry at people who don’t trust him. That’s why Sven have kept on Rossi god side and never told him that it don’t work.

Sven said that he have asked Rossi if Uppsala university can independently test the device, with the demand that all information will be reveled to the public. If Rossi says no to this Uppsala will not test the device.

One of the most interesting thins was that Sven kullander sad that Focardi and Levi are both excellent professor that he believe a 100% in, Rossi on the other hand is a little bit of a black box. He said that there are two black boxes in this history, Rossi and he ecat.

He also said that his colleague Roland Peterson (think that was his name) is very positive on the ecat.

Sven also showed the test of the nickel fuel and the copper nickel that is left after the reaction. They will come out with a full article on this when all the testing is done. But the first test show copper in the waste.

[With thanks to Tom in the eCatNews.com comments section and Akira Shirakawa on Vortex]





TOPICS: Business/Economy; Politics; Science
KEYWORDS: cmns; coldfusion; ecat; lenr
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-171 last
To: Kevmo

As I said, I am on a cellphone and cannot search for it. I will find a d post it to you, and I will expect a public apology.


151 posted on 11/26/2011 1:14:37 PM PST by dinodino
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: Pearls Before Swine

I beg to differ. Solyndra only made sense if the economics worked
***It did work. What it did not foresee was how fast the Chinese would catch up as competition, AFAIK.

(i.e., funny-shaped PV cells which made the panels’ output less sensitive to positioning relative to the sun; this required a business plan which was economically based and took into account production costs and potential competition).
***I’m not too current on Solyndra, I’ll take your word for it.

I think Chu was lacking in his ability to evaluate the economics, and influenced by the belief and hope in all that was “green.” Hence he was easily manipulated and misled by being presented a biased sample of research options—those associated primarily with Obama cronies.
***So, somehow this roundabout explanation may be a proper parallel with LENR and Kullander, but not Levi and Focardi and anyone who’s familiar with LENR results before Rossi came along.

I have a strong opinion on Chu, but I don’t have one at all on Kullander. Hence, your rather lecturing comment to me that “I have discovered” something about my parallel, apparently elicited by your Socratic dialog with me isn’t called for.
***You are the one calling up the parallel. Where it works, we use it. Where it doesn’t work, we toss it.


152 posted on 11/26/2011 1:18:20 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies]

To: dinodino

You have wasted too much of my time to deserve an apology, even if you are right. Accusations of lies should be backed up within one post. Period.


153 posted on 11/26/2011 1:20:13 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 151 | View Replies]

To: Lx

poor science skills,
***I’ll line mine up to yours. We just don’t have a way of doing that. You exhibit very, very poor inductive reasoning skills. Your lack of skills are demonstrated by all those classic fallacies you keep using.


154 posted on 11/26/2011 1:27:31 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 146 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
Oh yeah, like you backed up the B.S. Princess Bride quote you ascribed to me.

You demand everyone live by your rules yet you don't. Just so you don't misinterpret this, I'm calling you a hypocrite. Period.

Simply pathetic...

155 posted on 11/26/2011 1:30:31 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies]

To: Pearls Before Swine; Kevmo
Chu spent most of his adult life in an environment where every graduate student who worked for him was putting his or her life's career on the line with every report on every experiment or other assigned task.

I don't think he had the slightest idea of how Department of Energy works. The only worse appointee there was that lady Bill Clinton put in charge. She got all upset about the "color coded" passes in use at the DOE secure sites so she had them abolished. She didn't believe in "discrimination based on color".

As my old carpool buddy used to say about DOE (his employer was just down the street from USPS where I worked) "It is full of political scientists". So now we know what that meant.

156 posted on 11/26/2011 1:31:48 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
You are not now, nor will you ever be in my league, it's just not going to happen.

It's sad really, to see how bitter you are, so sad.

157 posted on 11/26/2011 1:32:05 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: Lx

I addressed that. You missed it. What else have you missed? Lurkers can decide for themselves.


158 posted on 11/26/2011 1:33:15 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: Lx

Too afraid to line up your skills to mine, I see. Perhaps you need to look in the mirror for the largest source of bitterness around here.


159 posted on 11/26/2011 1:34:26 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
Bitterness, ha, I laugh my butt off at your expense and I dare say a lot of others do as well...

And here's poor poor Kevmo, Rossi doesn't even know you exist.

160 posted on 11/26/2011 1:37:29 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 159 | View Replies]

To: Lx

Once again, a post with no substance. Do you contribute anything to these threads besides naysaying and seagulling?


161 posted on 11/26/2011 1:46:35 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: Lx

You are not now, nor will you ever be in my league,
***You’re right. My league is far more rigorous than yours. Obviously, if you could put together posts without classical fallacies, and exhibit some valid inductive reasoning, then you’d be in my league. But you’re not. And lurkers can search through our correspondence for themselves to see that this is the case, just count how many classic fallacies that Lx generates when he tries to back up his points. He’s right, I will never be in his league.


162 posted on 11/26/2011 1:52:07 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
This:

jhrewhg;qjk;hg 4564f54ew, jrhtj qt
34rhfj3r2 vh1ed,4322r4.?

Has more substance than anything you've posted so far unless you've plagiarized it.

163 posted on 11/26/2011 1:52:49 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
Again with the I know you are but what am I.

Is it possible for you to post something original instead of cribbing my posts?

I see...years of therapy on your horizon, better start now.

It's really helped me be nicer, more sympathetic and understanding.

164 posted on 11/26/2011 1:55:59 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: Lx

More psychobabble from you. I’m done with you on this thread.


165 posted on 11/26/2011 2:14:42 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 164 | View Replies]

To: Lx

I’m done with you on this thread. Feel free to have the last word.


166 posted on 11/26/2011 2:15:42 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 163 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

You’ll be back, you can’t help it. It’s like all those times in the past when you were embarrassed and couldn’t think of a snappy comeback and now you seek redemption.


167 posted on 11/26/2011 2:19:00 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

You’ll be back, you can’t help it. It’s like all those times in the past when you were embarrassed and couldn’t think of a snappy comeback and now you seek redemption.

So good I had to say it twice.


168 posted on 11/26/2011 2:19:37 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: Lx
The italian expression "declinazione tecnologica" more correctly translates into English as "technological variation".

Simply use Google.translate next time ~ sometimes people pick up on the first level of translation when all you need to do is highlight the word (make it flash yellow) then see what the other probable/possible terms are.

Did that help? I'm not particularly interested in the context but we have these tools these days to figure out what funny little foreign people with bad accents really want to say.

169 posted on 11/28/2011 6:16:00 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 132 | View Replies]

To: Johnny B.
This is not that good a collection of Google translations on Petrodragon. For example, we have: "a process that lasted over a year and a half and for which the prosecutor had asked Ambrose Moccia penis much more' severe. 'S director of the Petrol Dragon Pm"

I gotta' ask you johnny B. what has Ambrose Moccia's penis got to do with any of this?

I've seen some better stuff.

170 posted on 12/01/2011 5:56:51 AM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Johnny B.
Look at that Nov 2004 article ~ Rossi was acquitted. End of story.

One of Rossi's complaints is that ever since The Omar Refinery situation the professional environmentalists and their friends in the press have carried out a smear campaign against him as a "polluter".

I'd gather that is, in fact, true and it may well color his history as portrayed here. If so that raises questions about what FR is doing allowing professional Environmental extremests and Pure Sun enthusiasts in. I thought we'd pretty much purged them over the years.

Rossi claims Jimmy Carter gave him a permanent entry visa. Did you pursue that one? Guy sure seems to be able to hop countries with abandon.

171 posted on 12/01/2011 6:29:32 AM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-171 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson