Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

THE COMING WAVE (An Interview With Mother Abigail)
Tokuisei.Com ^ | 12-14-11 | James Oscar

Posted on 12/14/2011 4:59:02 AM PST by James Oscar

















THE COMING WAVE

(An Interview With Mother Abigail)


I came in from the wilderness, a creature void of form.
"Come in," she said, "I'll give you—shelter From the storm”


-Bob Dylan-









TOPICS: Health/Medicine; History; Science
KEYWORDS: freerepublic; h1n1; hiv; lusby; mddeaths; motherabigail; pandemic; ruthblake; tokuisei; virus
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250 ... 301-337 next last
To: Smokin' Joe
“We'll see what develops.”

I think you have just described my attitude as of late. I do now watch and post things that seem to be relevant to my novella but I have very mixed feelings about the entire experience with MA and the two year long writing - it changed my life. Meeting and knowing her radically redirected my world view of many, many things.

I suppose it is always like that when encounter someone of exceptional presence.

But in all honesty, sometimes I wish (like the guy in the Matrix) I had taken the other pill. Would be nice to be back chasing women, drinking too much and as naive as a child to the dangers in the world.

Now I am spending my weekends with real estate agents looking at cabins high up in the Sierras, with a good water source and very limited access.

Some things can't be undone. It is what it is. You make a choice and the lessons learned are what makes you the person you are. While I realize that the person I once was, spent his life in a bubble of self-absorbed petty recreation - knowledge comes with a price.

I suppose this is what my depression era raised father always referred to when he said “someday you will grow up”.

Sorry to vent but it just came out.

151 posted on 01/25/2012 7:55:32 AM PST by James Oscar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies]

To: mdmathis6
I am an RN by trade working in an ICU. If something like this broke out, I might be faced with an untenable dilemma; especially since I have family!

More like the opening pages of The Stand.

Chances are that by the time a fast-moving, highly contagious disease was recognized to be a threat, it would be widespread enough that the damage would be done. Every time you walk through the ER, there are people presenting with URT symptoms, sniffles and sneezing among them--in this scenario, any one of them could be transmitting the new variant by air.

Small groups would be most likely to survive, and those with limited human contact outside the group. (Think wilderness area hikers, families on camping trips, etc.) Virtually anyone in a large population cluster would be toast unless they had some natural immunity which is unknown. Most would take it home to or catch it from their families before they knew they were infected.

Defoe's Journal of the Plague Years might be closer, but this could be far worse.

Of course, the question remains of whether the survivors would be able to salvage stuff from the ruins without getting infected themselves, and if so, how soon? Without that capability, civilization as we know it would be set back a few centuries at best within a generation.

152 posted on 01/25/2012 9:43:06 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar
But in all honesty, sometimes I wish (like the guy in the Matrix) I had taken the other pill.

My experience is the rabbit hole is much deeper than I could have imagined. I have no regrets, but do miss the frivolity of my youth.

Something is bothering that I have not mentioned previously. I spent many years working in the middle east. It is the very nature of Salafists and Wahabists homosexual practice that will be the silent mutation reservoir for HIV. Just my opinion.
153 posted on 01/25/2012 12:18:26 PM PST by PA Engineer (Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 151 | View Replies]

To: PA Engineer

Agreed. The HIV reservoir is totally unknown due to the reasons you cite as well as the stigma that prevents even rudimentary testing.


154 posted on 01/25/2012 12:46:51 PM PST by James Oscar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

Well, I’m pretty alert to seeing influxes of persons with strange patterns of Flu.
2 years ago we had an influx of young folks 18 to 25 come in with Flu sx’s and strange streaky temps” during the H1ni/scare. They never called it pneumonia per se, pneumonitis was used a few times as a dx and all the bacterial cultures came back negative...at least the initial ones.(They got prophylactically treated for potential bacterial “ride ins”) Of course all of them seemed to test “negative” for any sort of flu, but I felt at the time the data was being “hushed” up.

Massive steroids and antipyretics helped them get past the “crash” stage but they were intubated for a week or more. One I remember was a rather “cut” young man, one who one would never think that could get so sick! A number of staff became ill off and on at the same time but we’d all had flu shots provided by the hospital so none of the staff got so ill that they needed to be hospitalized. But it was a “flu” that just sort of “hung” on to those of us that had it for a month or more...the initial symptoms would ease up and we’d come back to work, but low energy and sinus/cough issues persisted for up to a month in most of us.

I suppose if I saw a suddden influx of folks with atypical flu sx’s(and one gets a feel for when the patterns don’t fit right)...I’ll isolate myself from my family and tell my wife and kids to take cover and do little out in public as much as possible. The kids thru school might have already had exposure but if no symptoms..they might have gotten lucky enough to have avoided it.


155 posted on 01/25/2012 2:20:06 PM PST by mdmathis6 (Christ came not to make man into God but to restore fellowship of the Godhead with man.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: RandallFlagg

LOL, how ya doing walkin’ man.


156 posted on 01/25/2012 2:27:20 PM PST by mware (By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar

James,

Thanks for your time in this. Very interesting interview. Chat later.

CJ


157 posted on 01/25/2012 2:56:40 PM PST by CJ Wolf (OMG - Obama Must Go!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

“Of course, the question remains of whether the survivors would be able to salvage stuff from the ruins without getting infected themselves”

I would assume there would be a few people who would be immune for some reason.


158 posted on 01/25/2012 2:59:52 PM PST by CJ Wolf (OMG - Obama Must Go!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

“Of course, the question remains of whether the survivors would be able to salvage stuff from the ruins without getting infected themselves”

I would assume there would be a few people who would be immune for some reason.


159 posted on 01/25/2012 3:28:56 PM PST by CJ Wolf (OMG - Obama Must Go!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: CJ Wolf

My understanding from MA is that when the exposed hosts die the virus dies.

She explained that this is a very targeted virus in general and the mutation is extremely targeted.

Burns fast, spreads like we cannot imagine and then dies with the last warm host.

The virus is very fragile and cannot survive in a non human environment.

Immunity is not the issue - dropping your tools and running to the hills is the issue.

Watch Egypt.


160 posted on 01/25/2012 4:03:35 PM PST by James Oscar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 159 | View Replies]

To: CJ Wolf
I would assume there would be a few people who would be immune for some reason.There might be those who are immune (for all we know, there are those who are immune to AIDS, the Flu, or both, but the only way to find out after a pandemic carries a heavy penalty for those who are not, if the disease remains viable...

The question becomes one of how long the disease would remain viable, whether it would form spores, whether it would survive in a cadaver or dried bodily fluids, etc.

Perhaps someone who is better versed in virology can give us a guess.

161 posted on 01/25/2012 4:39:50 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 159 | View Replies]

To: 2ndreconmarine; Fitzcarraldo; Covenantor; Mother Abigail; EBH; Dog Gone; ...

Ping to an interesting article and the sections which follow as posts...


162 posted on 01/25/2012 4:41:31 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar
Some things can't be undone. It is what it is. You make a choice and the lessons learned are what makes you the person you are. While I realize that the person I once was, spent his life in a bubble of self-absorbed petty recreation - knowledge comes with a price.

True. Some get that young, some don't ever.

But if ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?

That which has been seen can be forcibly ignored (people do it all the time--denial), even rationalized away, but it cannot be unseen.

The pervading sense of something being terribly wrong has been felt by many, I among them.

Many can't put a finger on it, others blame it on the economy, the current political power structure, etc., but in a short phrase, people have been choosing sides. Not in the sense of standing on one sidewalk and hollering at the folks across the street, but in the sense of who they will follow in a spiritual sense, whether they will put their stock in the forces of good or whether they will sell out for a crust of bread.

The sale of firearms and ammunition--at record levels--is ongoing because of the perceived need to defend one's self, home, family, and community from something, any one (or more) of several possible threats, and preppers have felt a sense of quiet and growing urgency for years.

Even the Government has purchased a quarter billion freeze dried meals, allegedly in case of 'natural disaster', and it already has an army...

So while the grasshoppers play, the ants are getting ready, and have been, in growing numbers, archiving information, learning skills, caching supplies and materials, going off grid, establishing alternative power schemes for places as remote as they can get or afford.

Even then, in the face of a pandemic of the sort which would create a genetic bottleneck, 'luck', Divine Providence, (whichever you would attribute surviving the first month uninfected to), would play a large part in which portions of the population would survive--and which would not. An accident on the road to a survival retreat might delay someone sick enough that they never made it, and thus permit the rest to survive what would have been sure infection.

Riding out that storm would be no guarantee of survival, though, the real challenges would come afterwards.

Sustaining our present technical level would be highly unlikely in the event of a global pandemic. Even a level of technology from the 1940s would have to be largely reinvented before the current means of accomplishing things wore out, corroded, or simply ground to a halt. For a while, survivors would have to spend much of their resources simply surviving and 'wishing for more wishes'--something which would only be possible if and when the roving raiders had been wiped out by disease or defenders.

The very practical and technical education needed to sustain such would be fragile, too, with few enough possessing the knowledge, and the question of who would teach it, and to whom.

We live in interesting times indeed.

But the world as we know it has 'ended' many times in just the last couple of centuries, from steamships, to steel, to the aeroplane, antibiotics, vaccines, the computer, the bomb, cell phones, space travel and satellites, etc. All made seminal changes in our world and culture, but this time, many of the changes would be changes back down the technological ladder, how far depending on who where survived knowing what, and what resources they had to work with.

This gets back into the types of population growth/societies/cultures, reproductively. For a while, given that sooner or later it would be 'safe' to scavenge ruins, there would be an abundance of resources--canned and dried food, fuel, vehicles for the taking, heavy equipment and freight haulers for those who could use them, lumber, concrete, whatever inventory was present, in transit, or lay wrecked along the side of the road. Generators would be out there, and the grid might stay up in places for a while. After that, though, communities would have to find means to provide for themselves, be it fuel, food, power, labor, whatever, and with each diminishing level of technology would come a more labor intensive culture just to survive. Small groups would need people capable of doing much, not just with narrow skill sets--and the more they could teach to others, the better.

For a while, the population might hit a rapid growth curve, but without the nurturing, without raising those who were growing up to maintain the technology or even advance it, it would not survive.

In the meantime, those who chose to raid for sustenance would have a field day, with young replacements relatively rapidly available and a less fragile technical base, the raiders would do well unless the tech societies were adept at defense as well.

All this is speculation, of course, predicated on a 'bottleneck' event, but that is likely a question of what and when, not "if".

163 posted on 01/25/2012 4:43:39 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 151 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

Q: And I assume this large scale outbreak is what overpowers the health care systems?

MA: There will never be a real opportunity for containment. This is not Hollywood. No hero will develop a magical antidote just in time to save the beautiful woman. No, this event is of such a consequence that, by the time the scale is apparent, the issue will be settled.

Because the virus is airborne the first three days of outbreaks will saturate such a large population that all the wheels will rapidly come off even the best health care systems. The first task will be to understand what is happening and it will, all to rapidly, become apparent that it is a very hot bug and that it is pandemic.

But by the time the extent of what has happened is well known - there will be no recourse.

Child, there is no recourse even now. We cannot kill this creature. We have only kept it at bay for these many years and that era of detente is rapidly ending.

Q: But MA, you make it sound so hopeless. How could you believe such a thing?

MA: There are things that I believe and things that I know. This virus and its coming change are something I know. I know in detail and specificity that defies all common understanding - yet my knowledge remains.

And now you know.


164 posted on 01/25/2012 4:59:07 PM PST by James Oscar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

Read that on the Kindle. Very interesting. Also remember that in the3 event of the big one, it is the second and third wave that get you. Also remember the black death isn’t quit what they say it was


165 posted on 01/25/2012 5:23:23 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: mdmathis6

I had just what you described. Didn’t need to be out in the hospital.


166 posted on 01/25/2012 5:25:40 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar; Smokin' Joe

I follow pandemic news on the PFI Forum, daily, and have almost daily since Dec. ‘06. Currently there is very little news from Egypt and the moderators think it may be on account of the political disruption in Egypt (it’s getting worse daily, riots due to lack of bread recently). But in Indonesia the very recent news from Indonesian sites (and machine translated) is a lot of cases right now, looks like possible Tamiflu failure, it very, very well worth watching. The mods there know their stuff, there are a number of fanatically dedicated news hounds, and excellent commments to help non-technical people make sense of it.

Link to the PFI forum:

http://www.singtomeohmuse.com/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=69f9740dce65b107f8addf44de212f4c

I posted an article about this apparent Tamiflu resistance the other day on FR, much more evidence now, with several deaths in the last few days. Of people who were treated on time with Tamiflu and still died.


167 posted on 01/25/2012 5:27:02 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar; Smokin' Joe

A commentary from Niman today, about Egypt. (BTW I am an ignoramous and can’t grasp deep scientific stuff, I keep trying to get the gist of stuff anyway.)

Commentary

H1N1pdm09 Recombination In Egypt H5N1 Raises Concerns

Recombinomics Commentary 21:00
January 25, 2012

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/01251203/H5_Transmission_H1N1pdm09.html

The recently released H5N1 sequences from Egypt contain H1N1pdm09 sequences in the PB1 and PB2 gene segments. The recent comments by Yoshihiro Kawaoka on the data in the censored Nature paper indicate H5 on an H1N1pdm09 genetic background transmits in ferrets. Although the paper remains censored, the comments suggest H5 was added to 7 gene segments from H1N1pdm11. However, an earlier study suggested that the H1N1pdm09 M gene was critical for the jump from swine to humans, so it is unclear if the other six gene segments are required for transmission.

However, the presence of H1N1pdm09 gene sequences in the H5N1 isolates raise concerns that additional combinations are likely and the status of such combinations are far from clear. The most recent human H5N1 sequence from Egypt are from cases in March 2010. More recently, clusters in Egypt have been confirmed and an increased case fatality rate has been noted, raising concerns that H1N1pdm09 internal genes may be present in human cases in Egypt.

NAMRU-3 typically generates H5 and N1 sequences for human cases in Egypt, while samples are frequently sent to the CDC in Atlanta for further analysis. These sequences should be released immediately. The presence of such sequences may signal and enhanced transmission in humans and may be related to the confirmation of clusters.

Although the H5 transmission in ferrets in the Kawaoka study did not produce a lethal H5N1 in the ferret model, the wide circulation of such sequences in human populations could have significant implications, as has been demonstrated for the H1N1pdm09 M gene in trH3N2 (H3N2v) and trH1N1 (H1N1v) cases in the United States in 2011.

The Kawaoka Nature paper highlights the need for full sequences from cases in Egypt. This need applies to other recent cases, such as the clusters in Indonesia. Only HA and NA sequences were released from the Bali cluster, which also had clear evidence of recombination. Similarly, no sequence data has been released for the cluster in North Jakarta.

The censored papers at Nature and Science highlight the dangers of a transmitting H5N1 and demand more timely and transparent release of H5N1 sequences.


168 posted on 01/25/2012 5:36:24 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar

It was reading about SARS and Mother Abigail’s comments on FR that caused my non-stop obsession with flu pandemic stuff.


169 posted on 01/25/2012 5:50:14 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 148 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar; Smokin' Joe

“Immunity is not the issue - dropping your tools and running to the hills is the issue.”

In general survival terms I would agree with that. I really was just indicating that after it runs it’s course there will be some that won’t get sick even when exposed. who knows what the percentage would be. Problem with that theory is that one will never know until it comes to pass and those that end up left will have no idea why they were spared.

When you mention Egypt and this topic I cannot but think of the pale horse seen there earlier in 2011.


170 posted on 01/25/2012 5:56:58 PM PST by CJ Wolf (OMG - Obama Must Go!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: little jeremiah

It was reading about SARS and Mother Abigail’s comments on FR that caused my non-stop obsession with flu pandemic stuff.

I think it was at that time that I first came in contact
with you on FR.

I followed those threads for some time but my science in
not that complete so as to be able to understand it
with any exactness.

The horror, that I can glimpse.
I have moved from the city into the mountains, not as
far as I would have liked but it will have to do and I
pay attention to viral outbreaks much more closely now.

Just one more reason for us to get off this ball of dirt.
My best to you.
t.


171 posted on 01/25/2012 7:15:41 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: tet68

I am sure that whatever science you understand is miles beyond what I grasp. I limp along (and as I have said before) dragging my brain behind me...

I already lived rural but we have sort of gone into the prep mode pretty seriously and last week got a solar well pump, need to get another solar panel for it, it only needs 2. Have basic from scratch foods that could easily last us 2 years, give or take this or that. It’s not that “surviving” is so goldurn important - I already saw 60 not long ago - but God may have something He wants me to do yet (no doubt small but still it’s up to Him) so it’s my job to be ready. Getting less attached to the ball of dirt - wondering where He’ll put me next.

Never a dull moment!

And the very best to you, friend.


172 posted on 01/25/2012 7:44:11 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar
Thanks for you patience in re-posting all that history and new information.
173 posted on 01/25/2012 7:54:30 PM PST by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: little jeremiah

IIRC, resistance to Tamiflu was noted in the H1N1 outbreak, and may well be increasing. Much like teasing bacteria with an antibiotic and stopping the meds in mid course, there is a resistant strain which goes on.


174 posted on 01/25/2012 8:13:23 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar

Thanks for the lengthy heads up. Best wishes for the new year.


175 posted on 01/25/2012 8:20:44 PM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG ...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

How about this?

Pandemic 2009 H1N1 virus gives wings to avian flu
25 Jan 2012 | 18:17 GMT

Has the 2009 H1N1 flu pandemic increased the risk that the H5N1 avian flu virus could evolve to create a human pandemic?

That’s a possibility raised by the work of Yoshihiro Kawaoka of the University of Wisconsin, Madison, the main conclusions of which — but not the details — are revealed in a Comment article in Nature today. His team created a virus that has the H5 haemagglutinin (HA) surface protein from the H5N1 virus, with all the remaining genes coming from the 2009 pandemic H1N1 virus. The resulting virus proved to be highly transmissible in ferrets, and is therefore likely to have the same behaviour in other mammals, including humans.

What’s intriguing is that before the 2009 pandemic, several research groups had tried the same experiment, using the garden-variety seasonal H1N1 flu, but without success. The difference is that the 2009 pandemic H1N1 virus, which is a triple reassortant of pig, avian and human viruses, contains the triple reassortant gene (TRIG) cassette, which is believed to make it far easier for a flu virus to swap genes with those from other species. This suggests that H5N1 may find it much easier to reassort with pandemic 2009 H1N1 virus circulating in the wild to create a pandemic virus, whereas it had coexisted with seasonal flu since 1997 without evolving into a pandemic strain, explains Bruno Lina, a virologist and flu researcher at the CNRS, France’s basic-research agency, who works at the University of Claude Bernard Lyon-1.

The study by Kawaoka’s team, which has been accepted for publication by Nature, is one of two studies that have succeeded in creating H5N1 strains capable of transmitting between ferrets. The other, by a team led by Ron Fouchier of Erasmus Medical Center in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, has been submitted to Science. The papers have been at the centre of controversy since 20 December, when the United States government — acting on advice from the US National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity (NSABB) — asked both journals to publish only the main conclusions of the two flu studies, but not to reveal details. Insights from the research might help to improve pandemic preparedness in the future, but some are concerned that the publication of such work would amplify the risk of an accidental, or intentional, release of the virus that could spark a human pandemic. Flu researchers working on such studies last week declared a 60-day voluntary pause to allow governments and other bodies “time to find the best solutions for opportunities and challenges that stem from the work” (see ‘Pause on avian flu transmission studies‘).

Kawaoka and Fouchier succeeded in creating the transmissible virus in completely different ways. Fouchier used mutation, taking a H5N1 virus and then mutating it until it became transmissible. He initially introduced three mutations, using a technique called reverse genetics, but the resulting virus was not transmissible, so he then took that virus and passaged it through multiple ferrets, a procedure that is known to allow viruses to adapt to their host. The result was a virus with just five mutations, which were enough to make it highly transmissible.

Kawaoka instead used reassortment, which occurs in the wild. He took an HA protein from H5N1 and inserted it into a virus made of up genes from the pandemic 2009 H1N1. The flu virus has eight genes. Two code for the surface proteins HA and neuraminidase (NA), and six code for internal proteins. The eight genes are on separate segments, which means that when two different flu viruses infect the same host, they can swap genes and create new viruses in a process known as reassortment. An H1N1 human and H5N1 avian virus, for example, would generate a new virus that has most of the genes from the human virus, making it transmissible in humans, but an avian haemagglutinin and/or neuraminidase. A largely human virus carrying an H5, to which humans have no previous exposure of immunity, could cause a pandemic if it retained the transmissibility of the human virus, and the lethality of H5N1.

Fouchier’s virus was lethal in ferrets, whereas Kawaoka’s was “no more pathogenic than the pandemic 2009 virus”, and killed none of the animals. A reassortant that occurred in the the wild might have different pathogenicities. But two independent groups have now shown that H5N1 can transmit in ferrets, and so such human-transmissible viruses could potentially arise naturally in avian and other animal populations. What controls the exchange of genes between viruses is poorly understood, says Lina, who himself failed in the past to create highly transmissible reassortants of H5N1 and seasonal H1N1. Triple-reassortant viruses that have this TRIG cassette, of six highly conserved internal genes, seem capable of capturing various HA and NA genes from multiple species, he says. “The pandemic 2009 H1N1 virus has a flexibility of function which makes it capable of associating at the molecular level with virus and gene segments from pig, bird and humans.”

The 2009 pandemic H1N1 is circulating in humans in countries such as Indonesia, China and Egypt, where H5N1 cases in human continue to occur. Co-infection of a person with both viruses would give them opportunities to reassort. Pandemic H1N1 also infects pigs, from which it originally emerged, which could provide further opportunities for reassortment. This emphasizes the need for better surveillance to detect human cases of H5N1 infection.

Monitoring of human cases could also help to prevent flu viruses acquiring human transmissibility. There has been some evidence of limited human-to-human transmission of H5N1 in clusters of human cases, and a virus that passes along even a small chain of human hosts has opportunities to adapt to its host, just as H5N1 did in Fouchier’s ferrets.

But as a news article in this week’s edition of Nature shows (see ‘Caution urged for mutant flu work‘), surveillance of H5N1 in birds worldwide is patchy, particularly in poorer countries, where the virus is prevalent. It is also largely geared towards simply detecting and monitoring outbreaks, and few of the viral samples collected are ever sequenced, with just 160 H5N1 isolates submitted to the GenBank database last year. Moreover, if H5N1 surveillance in birds is poor, the situation is far worse in pigs, where there is virtually no systematic surveillance, even in richer countries. H5N1 infections in pigs are uncommon and cause only mild illness, creating little economic incentive to monitor them — GenBank contains partial sequences from just 24 pig H5N1 isolates in total.

http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/01/pandemic-2009-h1n1-virus-gives-wings-to-avian-flu.html


176 posted on 01/25/2012 8:36:45 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 174 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar

not sure I can process tho tonight, so bookmarking it for the morning, when my head just might be clear.

But, then, who knows, maybe I will be just as confused as I am tonight.


177 posted on 01/25/2012 8:52:40 PM PST by jacquej
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

Thanks for the ping!


178 posted on 01/25/2012 8:55:40 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

Thank you so much for the ping! This is fascinating reading so far. I’ve long been a believer of some form of what I like to call “God-designed Evolution” or something along those lines, but my thoughts are nowhere near as thoroughly reasoned out as her thesis appears to be. I’m looking forward to finishing this later. Of course, her choice of the screen nic “Mother Abigail” is a great hook to me as well - I love The Stand. Thanks again.


179 posted on 01/25/2012 10:53:37 PM PST by LibertyRocks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar

Fascinating reading so far. Thank you so much for sharing it here. I have bookmarked this to finish it in the morning!


180 posted on 01/25/2012 10:55:04 PM PST by LibertyRocks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LibertyRocks

You’re welcome!


181 posted on 01/25/2012 10:59:03 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 179 | View Replies]

To: little jeremiah
It’s not that “surviving” is so goldurn important - I already saw 60 not long ago - but God may have something He wants me to do yet (no doubt small but still it’s up to Him) so it’s my job to be ready.

Not mine to second guess God's plan, but someone is going to have to teach many of whatever youngsters who survive how to do things as they used to be done (40-50 year old tech, precomputer and later). Some of us remember, and the more we can pass on, the more likely they are to pull something resembling civilization from the ashes.

It's never too late to learn how to build water wheels, rig generators, build (and design) septic systems or water purification setups or even something so mundane as a road... The more we have documented and safe, even if we don't survive, the better the chance some bright person will discover it and put it to use.

182 posted on 01/25/2012 11:06:31 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 172 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl

You’re Welcome, Alamo-Girl!


183 posted on 01/25/2012 11:08:49 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 178 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz

Somebody’s looking for attention......or something to have posted this entire “Book” on FR.... What’s the deal here? Why not a link?


184 posted on 01/25/2012 11:13:06 PM PST by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe; James Oscar

Joe: Wasn’t it in Egypt that they slaughtered all the pigs owned by the Coptic Christians? Not saying that those actions would avert this kind of a crises, but it’s something that your post reminded me of as well. I really do have to go to bed and read the rest in the morning, but it’s like I can’t “put it down”.

James: You really do need to publish this one way or another. Definitely do that. Also, personally I would check into Amazon’s self-publishing as well - a lot of us still prefer old-fashioned printed books, and I think they have a “print-on-demand” type feature. :)


185 posted on 01/25/2012 11:17:51 PM PST by LibertyRocks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 146 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe
One of my favorite "wise" sayings:

You never know.....

186 posted on 01/25/2012 11:18:54 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 182 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe
Why out of Egypt?......Not just the flu, but the sexual attitudes toward young men in islam, and the 'silent' HIV progress through that population increase the chance of both being in the same patient at the same time......This is a frightening prospect, if it occurs.

Joe...this whole thread is out of my league of understanding....so can you put it in laymans terms a feeble mind might understand of what's going on we're getting a heads up on...at least it seems we are?????

187 posted on 01/25/2012 11:30:04 PM PST by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 146 | View Replies]

To: caww

Rampant H5N1 - rampant HIV due to the Moslem addiction to pederasty - and voila!

(I don’t understand how H5N1 and HIV can “mix” but I am so uneducated it ain’t funny.)

I think H5N1 is going Tamiflu resistant and H2H right now in Indonesia. That alone will create a pandemic with a huge CFR - case fatality rate.


188 posted on 01/25/2012 11:35:59 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 187 | View Replies]

To: caww
Somebody’s looking for attention......or something to have posted this entire “Book” on FR.... What’s the deal here? Why not a link?

There was a link. All of the original SARS discussions happened before your sign up date. Look again.
189 posted on 01/25/2012 11:38:19 PM PST by PA Engineer (Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 184 | View Replies]

To: caww
Rampant H5N1 - rampant HIV due to the Moslem addiction to pederasty - and voila!

What Little Jeremiah said. Sounds crazy. Takes some time and study. Read the links. There is nothing crazy about this. Ignoring what is going on is crazy.
190 posted on 01/25/2012 11:43:49 PM PST by PA Engineer (Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 187 | View Replies]

To: little jeremiah; PA Engineer
Ok so this looks like a pandemic warning....and no surprise the middle easterns to do with for their twisted minds concerning the body male to male etc. Incubators perhaps.

At any rate it seems it's not a matter of containment....one day it's going to cut loose regardless...and cross all borders since there are fast becoming no borders for any nations peoples.

Makes one imagine there was a reason why God kept the middle eastern nations isolated for so many years....now we're rolling out the red carpet in most nations....and with them comes a host of diseases etc. not to mention bugs and critters we never had to deal with.

191 posted on 01/25/2012 11:53:15 PM PST by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 188 | View Replies]

To: James Oscar; F15Eagle; Esther Ruth; Star Traveler; cyclotic; dripp
I was there for Mother Abigail's "debutante ball" on this forum; the ensuing discussion was instrumental for my awareness concerning N-acetylcysteine prophalaxis potentially mitigating cytokine storm. A person that had suffered from lupus told me they'd gone into remission because of it.

My understanding of eschatology suggests that anything approaching to an extinction event will not occur to that conflict that occurs whereby IF BUT FOR the Lord's return: all life on the planet would be extinguished.

Moreover, I'm skeptical about "superinfection" due to neuramindase prophalaxis in that tropism for influenza & HIV are different, albeit that there appears that HIV & either human and avian influenza virion plausibly could share alveoli macrophages as target cells betwixt themselves.

Influenza A virus, together with Influenza B virus, Influenza C virus, Isavirus and Thogotovirus, are the five genera forming the family Orthomyxoviridae. Orthomyxoviridae are enveloped, negative-stranded RNA viruses with a segmented genome. Influenza A viruses can be further categorized into subtypes based on two surface glycoproteins, the hemagglutinin (HA) and the neuraminidase (NA). To date, 16 different HAs and 9 different NAs have been found and may occur in virtually all possible combinations. Free-ranging waterbirds are considered to be the natural reservoir of all influenza A viruses. Even though some mammalian species— humans, pigs, horses and dogs—harbor their own influenza A viruses, there is strong evidence that these mammalian viruses originate from avian influenza A viruses. In addition, avian influenza A viruses may cross the species barrier to other mammals without developing into a stable lineage in the new host species. An example is the outbreak of avian influenza virus of the subtype H7N7 in harbor seals in 1979. Interestingly, the primary replication site for influenza A virus differs between birds and mammals. In birds, the virus replicates primarily in the intestinal tract, whereas in mammals, it replicates primarily in the respiratory tract. An important feature of avian influenza viruses is their capacity to mutate into forms that cause high mortality in poultry. Such mutations only have been recorded for the subtypes H5 and H7 and occur after transmission of these viruses to poultry. Based on their capacity to cause morbidity and mortality in chickens, avian influenza viruses are classified as low pathogenic avian influenza virus (LPAIV) or high pathogenic avian influenza virus (HPAIV). - A Critical Role of Cell Tropism for the Pathogenesis of Influenza (doctroral thesis of Riel, D.A.J. van (published by Erasmus University Rotterdam 2010-09-23)
Human and avian influenza viruses target different cell types in cultures of human airway epithelium (PNAS - Edited by Peter Palese, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York, NY, and approved January 30, 2004 (received for review December 3, 2003)

HIV tropism refers to the cell type that the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infects and replicates in. HIV tropism of a patient's virus is measured by the Trofile assay.

"T helper - Th - cells are a sub-group of lymphocytes, a type of white blood cell, that play an important role in the immune system, particularly in the adaptive immune system. These cells have no cytotoxic or phagocytic activity; they cannot kill infected host cells or pathogens. Rather, they help other immune cells—they activate and direct other immune cells. They are essential in B cell antibody class switching, in the activation and growth of cytotoxic T cells, and in maximizing bactericidal activity of phagocytes such as macrophages.

Mature Th cells express the surface protein CD4 and are referred to as CD4+ T cells. CD4+ T cells are generally treated as having a pre-defined role as helper T cells within the immune system. For example, when an antigen presenting cell expresses an antigen on MHC class II, a CD4+ cell will aid those cells through a combination of cell to cell interactions (e.g. CD40 and CD40L) and through cytokines." - T helper cell (from the Wiki)

The foregoing notwithstanding, I'm greatly appreciative of MA's superior knowlege concerning virion science; I'm certain she's forgotten more than I'll ever know about the matter. Although her arguments are compelling, I'm unconvinced that what she fears will actually manifest itself to the degree she alludes to.

192 posted on 01/25/2012 11:56:04 PM PST by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

"My understanding of eschatology suggests that anything approaching to an extinction event will not occur to that conflict that occurs whereby IF BUT FOR the Lord's return: all life on the planet would be extinguished."
S/r:
My understanding of eschatology suggests that anything approaching to an extinction event will not occur prior to that conflict that occurs whereby IF BUT FOR the Lord's return: all life on the planet would be extinguished.

193 posted on 01/26/2012 12:10:06 AM PST by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 192 | View Replies]

To: caww
At any rate it seems it's not a matter of containment....one day it's going to cut loose regardless...and cross all borders since there are fast becoming no borders for any nations peoples.

Just my opinion. Arab spring may have been humanities curse.
194 posted on 01/26/2012 12:24:21 AM PST by PA Engineer (Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 191 | View Replies]

To: raygun
These cells have no cytotoxic or phagocytic activity; they cannot kill infected host cells or pathogens. Rather, they help other immune cells—they activate and direct other immune cells.

That is how I interpreted it. What if they become aerosolized?
195 posted on 01/26/2012 12:27:12 AM PST by PA Engineer (Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 192 | View Replies]

To: PA Engineer
Its not only immaterial but irrelevent. I believe that I raised this issue:
In birds, the virus replicates primarily in the intestinal tract, whereas in mammals, it replicates primarily in the respiratory tract.
At the time I was making the argument that nobody had any clue concerning the probablities concerning mutations necessary to get the one to aerosolize into the other form.

Concerning HIV & influenza "superinfection" there are even greater unknowns with respect to probablities.

That notwithstanding, I believe that MA's concern with regards NA prophalaxis of the clinically immunodepressed may warrant concern.

If a mutagenically active influenza virion - trans species and high degree airborn transmisivity vector - arises akin to canine parvo-virus, circa early 1970's, we're in a world of hurt. That being said: I'm skeptical that's going to have anything to do with fusion of HIV & influenza virion.

My greatest concern is that a confluent and virulent strain of avian & human influenza arises having symptoms akin to canine parvo-virus, albeit pneumo-thoracic hermoraghic.

Even at mere 20% fatality that will be a complete and total nightmare.

196 posted on 01/26/2012 1:07:59 AM PST by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

To: raygun

The nations of the Earth are deceived into Armageddon by Satan, the Antichrist and the False Prophet in Revelation 16:13-16. Yes this is the war that would kill all flesh: mankind and possibly all animal. This is what the Lord Jesus Christ stops at His Second Coming in Revelation 19.


197 posted on 01/26/2012 2:00:28 AM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 193 | View Replies]

To: little jeremiah
“Currently there is very little news from Egypt and the moderators think it may be on account of the political disruption in Egypt (it’s getting worse daily, riots due to lack of bread recently).”

I would recommend adding this forum to your early alert system.

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/tags.php?tag=egypt

198 posted on 01/26/2012 6:01:44 AM PST by James Oscar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies]

To: LibertyRocks
Mother Abigail's postulated superbug is a recombinant of HIV which incorporates the contagion aspects of the flu. It isn't just a recombinant between H1N1 and H5N1, but something even more lethal, which would virtually guarantee 'cytokine storms' in those infected.

Killing off the pigs won't stop that possibility because the petri dishes are those HIV infected in the Muslim world, sexually used as children (boys), who might become infected with the highly contagious (but relatively benign, normally) H1N1 variant. Throw in Tamiflu and the HIV mutation rate accelerates in those with compromised immune systems.

With the description of HIV as a 'devious' bug, hiding from, tricking the human immune system in order to destroy it, all it needs is the capability to be spread by aerosol rather than the slower and less efficient intimate contact necessary now.

An area with the H1N1, H5N1, and widespread (although that is undocumented because of the stigma attached to homo activity, officially, in Islam) buggery, and with the incredible mutation rate of HIV, Egypt provides a definite possibility for the origins of such a bug.

Slaughtering the pigs won't remove that threat, it just impoverishes those who eat non-halal meat...and means there will be less pig blood to threaten the 'believers' afterlife with.

199 posted on 01/26/2012 6:19:52 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies]

To: little jeremiah
It is fascinating isn't it. The more I get feedback from across the world on my work, the more I realize just how seminal those 11 days of posting by MA were.

It opened a floodgate that not only empowered people with an avenue for investigation, but in many ways gave validity to the thoughts that were inside of them - thoughts that had no audience to listen nor forum to speak.

It is rare that we get to meet a person who changed the world in their lifetime, and I have always felt very honored to have spent the time I did with her.

200 posted on 01/26/2012 6:24:35 AM PST by James Oscar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250 ... 301-337 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson