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Mainline Protestantism ‘Gone from’ Christianity; Santorum Just Lost the South
Gulag Bound ^ | February 21, 2012 | Arlen Williams

Posted on 03/09/2012 12:54:15 PM PST by unspun

...I Believe, Michigan too, I Fear

 

Update:

This update is made simply to point out the problem with Rick Santorum's speech, excerpted below, as many are apparently having difficulty seeing it. I apologize for not making it clearer, earlier.

The problem lays in two sentences:

“And of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is a shambles. It is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it.
"...mainline Protestantism.... It is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."


2/19/2012 @ 1:50pm CT

It was almost an excellent and critically important speech, but then...

(Excerpt) Read more at gulagbound.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Politics; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: bigotry; blogpimp; christianity; kitties; mlprotestantism; protestantism; ricksantorum; romneyquotes; santorum; santorumcatholic; santorumoldspeech; santorumreligion; santorumspeech; zot
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I'll have to post just an excerpt. It is not convenient to do a lot of reformatting, since I have already formatted this article the way I chose, thanks.

I'd propose these questions: would Newt Gingrich, political leader that he is, have said such a thing?
Or, John Adams?
Thomas Jefferson?
John Kennedy?
Al Smith, for that matter?

I've read The Cost of Discipleship, and in it Dietrich Bonhoeffer had sharp criticism for his Hitler era Lutheran Church. I don't however recall him saying that Luteranism is "gone from the world of Christianity."

I wonder what these mainline Protestants would think:
C.S. Lewis
Francis Schaeffer
Dr. D. James Kennedy

1 posted on 03/09/2012 12:54:19 PM PST by unspun
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To: unspun
(Excerpt) Read more at gulagbound.com ..

Well, that's unfortunate. Excerpting your blog here. Why, I wonder?

I'll have to post just an excerpt. It is not convenient to do a lot of reformatting, since I have already formatted this article the way I chose, thanks.

Gee, maybe you should have just written & formatted things right here instead of on some slap-mammy blog.

Just a thought.

2 posted on 03/09/2012 12:57:24 PM PST by humblegunner
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To: unspun

This mainline Protestant happens to agree with him. My grandmother walked away from her lifelong Methodist church when the pastor tossed the bible on the floor during a sermon while declaring it irrelevant in today’s world.


3 posted on 03/09/2012 12:58:34 PM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: unspun; Cincinatus' Wife; PSYCHO-FREEP; trappedincanuckistan; katiedidit1; onyx; VinL; TitansAFC; ..

Ping for comnents


4 posted on 03/09/2012 12:59:13 PM PST by RitaOK (LET 'ER RIP, NEWT. Newt knows where all the bodies are buried, because he buried them.)
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To: unspun
Perhaps Santorum used “mainstream” to refer to those denominations like the Episcopalians, who ordain homosexuals, or the PCUS, which is so apostate I cannot even begin to list their problems and other members of the National Council of Churches.

I refer to those as “mainstream” and true Bible-believing churches as “evangelical” or “orthodox” or “fundamental”.

I'm in the south. I am fairly sure I'll be voting for Santorum on Tuesday.

5 posted on 03/09/2012 12:59:24 PM PST by Jemian
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To: unspun

D. James Kennedy - PCA, not mainline (PCUSA is mainline)
C.S.Lewis - different era and no fan of Anglican liberalism.
Schaeffer - what mainline denomination did he actively champion? Also, a different era.

As a member of an SBC church, I’d say Santorum is right. Of course, the RCs were wrecked theologically as a consequence of Vatican II. The SBC is trending in the same wrong direction as the mainline denominations.


6 posted on 03/09/2012 12:59:41 PM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: unspun
I would argue that most mainline Protestant denomination would not agree with C.S. Lewis, Francis Schaeffer, or Dr. D. James Kennedy.

The PCUSA is considered the "mainline" Presbyterians. In fact, most times when the word Presbyterian is used in the press, they are speaking about the PCUSA. And yes, the PCUSA has ‘Gone from’ Christianity.

In fact, in most conservative churches I have been in, the word "mainline" is a synonym to "liberal", and the liberal church has definitely ‘Gone from’ Christianity.

7 posted on 03/09/2012 1:00:32 PM PST by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: unspun

The sooner the better. This is a very good thing. And does it really surprise anyone? He’s been talking like he was running for head preacher rather than president.

And I agreed with a lot of what he was saying. Well, up to that.


8 posted on 03/09/2012 1:01:52 PM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: unspun

Santorum is spot on...and I’m sorry your blog needs pimping.


9 posted on 03/09/2012 1:02:19 PM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: unspun

Santorum doesn’t really want the nomination, because he is killing his chances every time he brings up religion. Maybe he had bills to pay and needs the campaign cash to do it.


10 posted on 03/09/2012 1:02:26 PM PST by txrefugee
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To: unspun

Actually, Thomas Jefferson had issues with both Protestants and Catholics.

“Happy in the prospect of a restoration of primitive Christianity, I must leave to younger athletes to encounter and lop off the false branches which have been engrafted into it by the mythologists of the middle and modern ages.”

Monticello, July 19, 1822


11 posted on 03/09/2012 1:03:04 PM PST by Allon
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To: unspun

If he’s referring to the Evangelical Lutheran Church, The Presbyterian Church, and The Episcopal Church with it’s revisionist interpretation of Scripture, I’d have to agree with him.


12 posted on 03/09/2012 1:03:45 PM PST by sockmonkey
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To: unspun
If CS Lewis were alive today, he's agree with Santorum about Mainline Protestantism.
13 posted on 03/09/2012 1:03:53 PM PST by utahagen
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To: Jemian

“Mainline”, not “mainstream”. Mainline is not mainstream. And, as you point out, does anyone seriously think that the Episcopalians, for example, denomination are Christian? Sodomites and heresy everywhere.


14 posted on 03/09/2012 1:04:16 PM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: unspun
Santorum is right.

Furthermore, please pimp your blog elsewhere.

15 posted on 03/09/2012 1:04:41 PM PST by jboot
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To: cripplecreek

It’s one thing for you and me to say it. There is a time and place to say these things. A Presidential stump speech is NOT the place to say it. For about a 1000 reasons.


16 posted on 03/09/2012 1:04:43 PM PST by DManA
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To: achilles2000

Protestants are Protestants.

Catholics are Catholics.

In either case, their churches tend to be split, as I stated in the article. I’m sure there are “liberals” and “conservatives” in each, who prefer to think of their beliefs as “mainline.”

However, I hope none are bigoted or haughty enough to dictate which handfuls of tares, and the wheat along with it, may be uprooted, and called “gone from the world of Christianity.”

Pleasant pondering with the Lord. I suggest the entire article. Then again, I wrote it. ;-> Also, the comments beneath it.


17 posted on 03/09/2012 1:05:00 PM PST by unspun (It's the Sovereignty, Stu... | We are Gulag Bound)
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To: unspun

Are you completely oblivious to the crisis between the High Episcopal Church, Anglican Communion, and the low Episcopals of non-British nations?

The FR religious forum, of which I conscientiously do not read by choice, has had articles about the collapse of mainline Protestantism for the last 5+ years.

Even myself, not even a Christian, know dang well that mainline Protestantism no longer exists as a Christian denomination.

You need to read up on the complete failure of Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, how the remaining bastinos of the Anglican communion in Africa and other developing nations have officially cleaved themselves from the rotting rump of mainline Anglican conferences, and how those African, Asian, Central and South American Communions no longer see themselves as part of Anglican mainline as defined by Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams and other Bishoprics in the UK and core Commonwealth.


18 posted on 03/09/2012 1:05:19 PM PST by JerseyHighlander
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To: Jemian

Last time I was in the Methodist church of my youth it was full of bulletin boards plastered with flyers screaming for “eco justice” and celebrating diversity.


19 posted on 03/09/2012 1:05:22 PM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: unspun

Protestant Churches need to take a look at what is happening. Feel good churches and churches embracing homos are growing in numbers.

We used to be able to say that just Jews and Catholics bought into leftism.

No longer true.


20 posted on 03/09/2012 1:05:30 PM PST by dforest
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To: unspun

Here we go again.

Santorum has an amazing ability to continue to say things, (whether you agree with them or not) to very easily be taken out of context, and then become another non-issue firestorm, and the focus gets taken off the serious issues.
And he does it to himself.

He’s learned absolutely nothing throughout this whole process.
Let’s all wake up and see him for what he is.
If he’s the nominee, we got problems.


21 posted on 03/09/2012 1:06:35 PM PST by sillsfan (Reagan and Sarah are right- WE win, they lose!)
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To: unspun
Got to drive those pesky religious voters off of Santorum dangit. Now if we could just restart the war between Catholics and Protestants, we'd have something.
22 posted on 03/09/2012 1:06:35 PM PST by throwback ( The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.)
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To: unspun

I have an idea, why don’t you go through Romney’s speeches and get a couple of gotcha lines for your blogs.


23 posted on 03/09/2012 1:06:54 PM PST by Kenny
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To: jboot; Jim Robinson; John Robinson; kristinn
Furthermore, please pimp your blog elsewhere.

I wonder if this is why Andrew Breitbart gave up on FreeRepublic.com?

I tend to think of others for whom that is true.

24 posted on 03/09/2012 1:07:08 PM PST by unspun (It's the Sovereignty, Stu... | We are Gulag Bound)
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To: txrefugee

Santorum DOES want the nomination, but not on any terms...he wants to be able to face his creator some day...and show Him that he was true to the faith, even when running for the highest office in the land.


25 posted on 03/09/2012 1:07:26 PM PST by kjo (+)
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To: unspun

IBTZ


26 posted on 03/09/2012 1:07:51 PM PST by jboot
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To: unspun

I have to agree with him too. I won’t enter the door of the “mainline” church I was part of when I realized that it had started to embrace radical leftist ideology rather than the Word of God.


27 posted on 03/09/2012 1:08:02 PM PST by Proud2BeRight
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To: unspun

“Mainline” is a technical term that refers to certain denominations, e.g. UMC, the Episcopal Church, PCUSA, etc. The Mainline denominations are a theological sewer. Remember, Paul constantly warned againsdt false teachers creeping in among us. We have to be discerning.


28 posted on 03/09/2012 1:10:01 PM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: sillsfan

Put very well. Imagine this kind of performance in the general election......


29 posted on 03/09/2012 1:11:12 PM PST by Toespi
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To: cripplecreek
This mainline Protestant happens to agree with him. My grandmother walked away from her lifelong Methodist church when the pastor tossed the bible on the floor during a sermon while declaring it irrelevant in today’s world.

Sorry, but there are many Mainline Protestant churches that have not apostated away from Christ and the Bible.

This was a dumb choice on Santorum's part because:

1. It's only partially true
2. The same point can be made about Catholics
3. All it does is divide his base and cause consternation for conservative Protestants.

Really, really STUPID move on his part.
30 posted on 03/09/2012 1:12:46 PM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: unspun

Your Profile says Wisconsin, WHAT THE ^*&^% DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE SOUTH??!!


31 posted on 03/09/2012 1:12:55 PM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: kjo
Santorum DOES want the nomination, but not on any terms...he wants to be able to face his creator some day...and show Him that he was true to the faith, even when running for the highest office in the land.

That's what brought me to this point. Rick Santorum is my 3rd choice line in the sand candidate. I'm getting to the age where I know I'll face my maker someday and I don't intend to give him excuses.

Those who think they can ridicule, insult, or otherwise harass me into voting for their guy are wasting their time. They can consider me a lost cause because I have far more important things to concern myself with.
32 posted on 03/09/2012 1:13:05 PM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: unspun

Maybe this will help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant


33 posted on 03/09/2012 1:13:58 PM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: Jemian

—Perhaps Santorum used “mainstream” to refer to those denominations like the Episcopalians, who ordain homosexuals, or the PCUS, which is so apostate I cannot even begin to list their problems and other members of the National Council of Churches.—

If that was what he meant, he should have been more precise in his choice of words.

But it doesn’t matter. He’s lost the non-catholic vote.

I was concerned from the git-go that he might say something with a nuclear impact. This was it. He can try to spin it all he wants. He may even make a claim to what you suggest above. It won’t matter. He’s the guy in the western that’s been shot and is coughing up blood as his woman holds his head in her arms. He’s done.

The good news is that the “not romney” vote is no longer split.


34 posted on 03/09/2012 1:14:21 PM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Proud2BeRight
“Various are the pleas and arguments which men of corrupt minds frequently urge against yielding obedience to the just and holy commands of God.”

-Reverend George Whitfield
35 posted on 03/09/2012 1:15:33 PM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: achilles2000

I accept your correction.


36 posted on 03/09/2012 1:15:46 PM PST by Jemian
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To: DManA

It’s one thing for you and me to say it. There is a time and place to say these things. A Presidential stump speech is NOT the place to say it. For about a 1000 reasons.

______________________

Of course you’re correct, but Santorum gave the speech in question during 2008- long before he knew he was going to be a candidate.


37 posted on 03/09/2012 1:15:47 PM PST by I_Like_Spam
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To: unspun
Do you even have the slightest clue about what is going on in mainline Protestant denominations? Do you know anything at all about the many lawsuits and the power grabs and attempts to expel honest and sincere Christians.? Do you know anything at all about the embracing of homosexuality, communism, abortion and other leftist and immoral programs? Do you know about the ridicule of the teachings of Jesus and the traditions of Christianity?

This has nothing at all to do with John Adams and C.S. Lewis. If they were alive today they would be appalled at what is happening and would agree 100% with Rick Santorum.

Read a book. Do a little research. Try to learn at least a little of what you are talking about.

And stop the dishonest attacks on a good and decent man.

38 posted on 03/09/2012 1:17:29 PM PST by detective
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To: unspun
I am a Protestant and my reaction is .... yawn. So what! My mother-in-law is Catholic and thinks that I'm going to hell for being a Protestant. Does not bother me. She can think anything she wants. It is not going to change my beliefs.
39 posted on 03/09/2012 1:19:57 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: cuban leaf

My point is that NO, HE HASN’T LOST THE NON-CATHOLIC VOTE.

I’m not catholic. I’m voting for him. He’s the last candidate on the ballot for whom I’ll vote.


40 posted on 03/09/2012 1:20:29 PM PST by Jemian
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To: 9YearLurker
Maybe this will help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant

Thank you, but I don't need the help.

BTW, I was raised in an American Baptist Convention church ("northern" as this wiki article states). I accepted Christ as my Savior, there. Like my father, I attended school in an ABC institution of higher learning.

I can assure you that along with the many devout Christians in all of the "mainline" denominations, whether in the pews, pastorates, or academia, they are not "gone from the world of Christianity," whatever errors exist. I won't go on here about them.

I won't go on about the errors in the Roman Catholic church, either. That would be unseemly.

41 posted on 03/09/2012 1:21:19 PM PST by unspun (It's the Sovereignty, Stu... | We are Gulag Bound)
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To: unspun; mrreaganaut

Most people confuse ‘mainstream’ Christianity with “mainline Christianity”. Mainline refers to certain Protestant groups who were directly on rail lines in certain orders.


42 posted on 03/09/2012 1:22:09 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Jemian

Thank you for overlooking the bungled grammar that resulted from fast typing and a lack of proofing. ;-)


43 posted on 03/09/2012 1:22:37 PM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: Jemian

Thank you for overlooking the bungled grammar that resulted from fast typing and a lack of proofing. ;-)


44 posted on 03/09/2012 1:23:30 PM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: unspun

No one should have to hear a Presidential candidate, give his interpretation of religion. Is he a theologian or a lawyer turned Senator? This is the only topic he is comfortable with, or he would be addressing the vast complex issues facing this nation. This is his pattern, lose a little ground, make controversial religious statements, bring the focus back to his comfort zone. Might work a little in the primaries but in the general, forget it, people will reject him immediately.


45 posted on 03/09/2012 1:24:52 PM PST by Toespi
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To: unspun

This is old stuff pushed by romney supporters on the web.


46 posted on 03/09/2012 1:24:57 PM PST by Linda Frances (Only God can change a heart, but we can pray for hearts to be changed.)
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To: Jemian
My point is that NO, HE HASN’T LOST THE NON-CATHOLIC VOTE.

This is the second time they've made that declaration over these comments from a while back. It wasn't true then and it isn't true now. The fact is that we protestants are his firmest base of support because we know how true his words are.
47 posted on 03/09/2012 1:26:16 PM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: SoConPubbie

48 posted on 03/09/2012 1:26:38 PM PST by unspun (It's the Sovereignty, Stu... | We are Gulag Bound)
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To: unspun

“However, I hope none are bigoted or haughty enough to dictate which handfuls of tares, and the wheat along with it, may be uprooted, and called “gone from the world of Christianity.”

You don’t have to be either bigoted or haughty to exercise discernment or spot obviously false teachings. ECLA and the Episcopal Church have, eg, adopted officially false teachings at a high level. The teachings are directly contrary to scripture that spans thousands of years and their doctrines have been adopted with knowledge of that scripture.

Paul did not suggest we listen to false teachers. He didn’t run around calling them “Christians” so as to be PC. As to “matters that may be disputed,” we should not create doctrinal battles (Romans 14). But as to the clear lines in scripture, Paul fought like a lion.


49 posted on 03/09/2012 1:28:36 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: DManA

“There is a time and place to say these things. A Presidential stump speech is NOT the place to say it. For about a 1000 reasons.”

That right there is the core issue here.


50 posted on 03/09/2012 1:29:31 PM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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