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GEORGE ZIMMERMAN AND TRAYVON MARTIN: WHAT WE DONíT KNOW
Backwoods Home Magazine ^ | March 23, 2012 | Massad Ayoob

Posted on 03/24/2012 8:47:14 AM PDT by Travis McGee

(Snip) The death weapon was a Kel-Tec PF9 semiautomatic 9mm pistol. It has been reported that the gun was recovered with a full magazine and that only the chambered round had been fired. This is a condition we associate with something preventing the gun from cycling a fresh round from the magazine into the chamber after the shot was discharged. One thing that can cause that is another man’s hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism. This would indicate, as could certain gunshot residue patterns or cuts in certain places if found on Trayvon Martin’s hand(s), that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired. This would clearly change the shape of the case. But – WE DON’T KNOW YET. Both men, according to initial reports, were “squeaky clean” in terms of their background. We now know, meh, not so much. There were allegations of domestic abuse against Zimmerman, and a conviction for resisting arrest, in his past. Young Mr. Martin was in the complex in the first place so his dad could straighten him out after being kicked out of school for a week…for what, we don’t know. Pundits who don’t all seem to understand the concept are tying this shooting in to Florida’s Stand Your Ground law much more than they should. There is conflicting evidence/testimony as to whether Martin approached Zimmerman or vice versa in the penultimate moments before the physical fight that led to the fatal shot. There is, in short, not yet enough information for any of us outside the investigation to formulate a solid opinion.

(Excerpt) Read more at backwoodshome.com ...


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: georgezimmerman; richardjewel; standyourground; trayvon; trayvonmarin; zimmerman
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To: FreeAtlanta
1). If he had a full clip, then he was walking around with a chambered round. That is a dangerous thing to do and is greatly discouraged.

Oh come on! You can't be serious!?!

Most CCW holders carry chambered. I know I do.

21 posted on 03/24/2012 9:31:57 AM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

It will go to trail and even if he is aquitted, he’ll be charged by the feds with a civil rights violation and/or sued in civil court and the kkids family will be awarded MILLIONS of dollars.

Zimmerman should have learned Krav Maga and he wouldn’t have needed a gun, he could have knocked the kid out before the kid knew what happened.


22 posted on 03/24/2012 9:32:53 AM PDT by Chainsawj
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To: FreeAtlanta

“Walking around” with a chambered round is NOT dangerous, if you have any clue about what you are doing, and is NOT greatly discouraged except perhaps by someone who doesn’t have a clue what they are talking about.

If you are carrying a weapon for defensive purposes the last thing you would want to assume is that a murderous assailant is graciously going to give you the time to chamber a round.


23 posted on 03/24/2012 9:33:28 AM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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To: umgud

I have read elsewhere that 6’2” Trayong Martin was a 140# bean pole, and Zimmerman outweighed him by almost 100#. So I don’t know about that. It’s all speculation at this point.

The other point is the Grand Jury is not only going to look at the last 10 or 30 seconds prior to the shooting, but the entire event, beginning even before the first 911 call.

A good SD case can be sabotaged by the shooter’s actions long before the shooting.


24 posted on 03/24/2012 9:33:28 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Mr. K

I thought Trayvon was on the way back from choir practice.

/sarc

It’s routing for all sides to exaggerate at this point. According to some, Trayvon was a “hulking” 6’2” footballer, and elsewhere that he was a 140# human beanpole. We don’t know much at this point.


25 posted on 03/24/2012 9:35:14 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

routing s/b routine


26 posted on 03/24/2012 9:35:41 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: FreeAtlanta

No. I own that pistol, and it has a long DAO trigger pull, like a stiff revolver. It’s perfectly safe with a round chambered, and takes about a 12# pull over more than an inch.

Two: if the pistol simply “jammed” on the second shot, a round would have at least partially left the magazine. The report says one round was fired, and the mag was still full, indicating it was out of battery by being grabbed. If not, the 2nd round would have either chambered, or jammed before chambering, but it would not still be in the magazine.


27 posted on 03/24/2012 9:38:20 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: 101stAirborneVet

Just the NRA safety handgun safety course where it was greatly discouraged to have a round chambered, but if you being a god of firearms say it is ok, then I will submit.

The reasoning sounded sound enough for me, but by all means, you trust the safety. I will just make the nice sounding (music to my ears) sound of chambering the round when it might be needed. To each his own.


28 posted on 03/24/2012 9:38:42 AM PDT by FreeAtlanta (Liberty and Justice for ALL)
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To: FreeAtlanta

You obviously do not know what you are talking about. You are either ignorant or pushing a anti 2nd amend. Agenda. No one advocates CCW carry unchambered. Furthermore, Every CCW course teaches that IF you take on the responsibility of carrying, you should carry fully loaded and ready to deploy. Carrying in such a way does not indicate inexperience nor can an inference as to maintenance be drawn from it. Carrying with A round in the chamber is neither dangerous nor discouraged. In fact, it is more dangerous to carry unchambered.


29 posted on 03/24/2012 9:38:53 AM PDT by 1malumprohibitum
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To: FreeAtlanta
If he had a full clip, then he was walking around with a chambered round. That is a dangerous thing to do and is greatly discouraged.

I guess you've never heard of "cocked and locked." It's a common carry mode with certain models of handgun.

30 posted on 03/24/2012 9:41:34 AM PDT by Oberon (Big Brutha Be Watchin'.)
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To: FreeAtlanta

It appears you are mixing handgun safety and CCW. They are completely different things. While the NRA may advocate unchambered for storage/in the home, carrying for defense is another thing altogether. Again, ALL CCW training and all self defense training advocate Carrying fully loaded and chambered.


31 posted on 03/24/2012 9:44:33 AM PDT by 1malumprohibitum
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To: FreeAtlanta

I don’t think I am a God of handgun safety, only a minor demi-god but I am a certified firearms instructor and a hunter-safety instructor.

My certifications are by the NRA and by a Southern State. If your instructor told you that, you need to get another one.

To be completely honest, I have retired and not kept up my certifications so I am technically no longer an instructor but I haven’t forgotten everything either.


32 posted on 03/24/2012 9:44:40 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: Travis McGee

I would love to see a current photo of him and a clarification of his weight. Will that be part of an autopsy report, and will it be made public?

Anyway, in the dark with someone 6’2 or 6’3”, with hoody and on top of me, I think I would have to pull the trigger, too. Zimmerman didn’t know that Trayvon was unarmed. He could have had a knife, gun, or could have hurt him in any numerous ways. If Trayvon laid hands on Zimmerman first, then the case should be closed.

A voice analysis of the 911 call might be enough to vindicate or convict Zimmerman.


33 posted on 03/24/2012 9:45:10 AM PDT by FreeAtlanta (Liberty and Justice for ALL)
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To: FreeAtlanta
Just the NRA safety handgun safety course where it was greatly discouraged to have a round chambered, but if you being a god of firearms say it is ok, then I will submit.

I am a god of nothing. But I did spend 7 years in the Army and 20 years as a DC cop. When you have to draw a pistol for self defense, it's already too late to chamber a round. That is, if you're pulling it because your life is in danger, which is the only time you ought to be pulling it.

Get what I mean? If you're drawing your pistol, you best be in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. In such a case, do you want to risk having to work the slide before you can fire?

34 posted on 03/24/2012 9:46:20 AM PDT by 101stAirborneVet
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: FreeAtlanta

It sounds like one of your “instructors” is Hollywood. I hope you never have to use what you know, as waiting til you need it to chamber it is at least one and behind your back. That necessary delay could cost you or someone you need to protect their life.


36 posted on 03/24/2012 9:50:08 AM PDT by 1malumprohibitum
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To: Oberon

How many people actually put a round in the chamber then pull the clip, add another to the clip, and then reclip it?

I am sure some do, but it seems odd.

BTW, why would a guy with a gun (other than Police) tackle another person? It seems most likely that Trayvon physically engaged Zimmerman.

This whole situation seems to be almost made to order for Obama and the summer of protests that his campaign wants. I say almost, because Zimmerman turns out to be Hispanic and not White. Can Obama afford to loose the Hispanic vote by siding with Holder’s People?


37 posted on 03/24/2012 9:50:38 AM PDT by FreeAtlanta (Liberty and Justice for ALL)
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To: FreeAtlanta
How many people actually put a round in the chamber then pull the clip, add another to the clip, and then reclip it?

I don't know about everybody, but I sure do.

God forbid, I might need that last shot.

38 posted on 03/24/2012 9:52:25 AM PDT by Oberon (Big Brutha Be Watchin'.)
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To: Travis McGee
This article was posted earlier but has now been updated.

Update: Turns out that the Trayvon Martin Facebook page mentioned here last night was the wrong Trayvon Martin; that has been deleted with my apologies, and thanks to those who flagged me to the error. Also, HuffPost reports that Trayvon had been suspended for chronic truancy, but another source notes that his school’s posted rules do not prescribe that length of suspension for that minor an offense. Meanwhile, the college George Zimmerman had been attending has suspended HIM, due to the current controversy.

39 posted on 03/24/2012 9:52:35 AM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: FreeAtlanta
1). If he had a full clip, then he was walking around with a chambered round. That is a dangerous thing to do and is greatly discouraged.

Wow. That statement deserves the...


40 posted on 03/24/2012 9:55:26 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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