GEORGE ZIMMERMAN AND TRAYVON MARTIN: WHAT WE DON’T KNOW

Backwoods Home Magazine ^ | March 23, 2012 | Massad Ayoob

[yarddog]

I sometimes top mine up and sometimes don’t. It is probably better for the mag not to keep it 100% loaded but I figure at my age, my Grandchildren can worry about spring tension.

I have a couple of Argentine made mags for the Browning Hi-Power and they have such a heavy spring that I purposely keep them topped up hoping to loosen that spring tension. So far it hasn’t worked.

[FreeAtlanta]

Come on, how long does it take to chamber a round? The moment I hear something and I go to get out of bed, the round is chambered.

If I am walking around my property, the round is chambered.

My question with the Zimmerman situation - if he really had a full mag - is why have the round in the chamber and a full mag? Wouldn’t, under most situations, you have one less round in the mag?

To each his own. I always handle my weapons like they have a chambered round, but I don’t keep one in the chamber. It is my preference. When I have a reason to think I might have to shoot, I chamber. Hopefully, I will never get in a gunslinger street fight like in the old west. Even chambered, I doubt I would have a chance.

[Smokin' Joe]

The report says one round was fired, and the mag was still full, indicating it was out of battery by being grabbed. If not, the 2nd round would have either chambered, or jammed before chambering, but it would not still be in the magazine.

This reminds me of why I bought a revolver recently. It can be fired through a pocket more than once (no hammer). Good enough for close range. I can put the pocket out (it'll likely at least be smoldering) after I have handled any more serious threat.

You just can't do that with a semi-auto without expecting a jam, either from failure to cycle due to interference from the material or the spent cartridge case failing to eject fully.

Was Zimmerman wearing a jacket? (Night time and chilly), and was the pistol in the pocket instead of a more conventional holster?

Still too little info.

[aruanan]

1). If he had a full clip, then he was walking around with a chambered round. That is a dangerous thing to do and is greatly discouraged.

You've got a major disconnect between your "if" and "then."

[101stAirborneVet]

Come on, how long does it take to chamber a round?

If you're in the middle of being physically attacked, way too long. And, if you're being attacked, you may not have both hands free to even do it.

Use of force scenarios aren't all cozy like on TV, where the homeowner wakes to a noise in the kitchen. Sometimes people wake up to a hand closing around their neck.

[Travis McGee]

A voice analysis of the 911 call might be enough to vindicate or convict Zimmerman.

I agree.

[smokingfrog]

I will just make the nice sounding (music to my ears) sound of chambering the round when it might be needed.

Just like in the movies...

[Travis McGee]

That’s why Mas Ayoob is THE ‘go to guy’ for SD court cases.

It just occured to me that he must have written something about the Zimmerman/Trayvon case.

[FreeAtlanta]

I keep a second clip, but hopefully I will never need the first one.

I understand where a lot of you are coming from, but it isn’t me. I am not going to store or even carry with a round chambered in an automatic. Revolvers with cock-able hammer are ok for me. As for chambered automatics, I just don’t trust mechanical devises that much.

[FreeAtlanta]

"like in the movies" Yeah, I love that and I hope it might scare off someone without me having to kill. Sorry, I really don't want to kill anyone. I also love the sound of 12 gauge pump being loaded. My theory is that most intruders would break their neck getting back out as fast as possible.

[101stAirborneVet]

I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong about not being chambered. Sometimes soldiers go about without a round chambered, if the threat level is deemed low enough. They do this to increase safety - if you have hundreds of young troops running around with a round in the pipe, you just might have an accidental discharge....okay, it's gonna happen.

The point is, if you want to maximize safety and you deem your environment to be low enough threat, then keep at it.

My point was only that those who carry chambered are anything but wrong.

[DustyMoment]

Lots of speculation here, without much data. The fact is that we don’t know what we don’t know about this case.

It sounds as though the Sanford police may have mishandled the investigation, but we don’t know.

About the only thing we seem to know for sure is that Treyvon was unarmed and Al Sharpton is doing what he does best - rabble rousing.

Frankly, I would like to see a full, complete and unbiased investigation so that ALL of the facts come out. Either way, both Zimmerman and Treyvon deserve their day in court.

But, all of this speculation isn’t it.

[FreeAtlanta]

I understand what you mean, but hopefully I would have some warning from my alarm system. With small kids, there is no way I am leaving a round in the chamber. I am not going to put a stupid trigger lock on either.

My kids are trained not to touch weapons without an adult or their older brother, but I was a kid once and boys are boys.

Right now, they would have some difficulty chambering. Hopefully, with training they will always be safe and respectful with these tools.

[dfwgator]

Frankly, I would like to see a full, complete and unbiased investigation so that ALL of the facts come out.

Good luck with all that.

[Wuli]

I heard the defendent’s lawyer speaking, via a phone somewhere, in an interview on BBC America this morning.

He was saying that at this time he does not see “Florida’s Stand Your Ground law” as an area he is going in his client’s defense, but rather “self defense” is.

Wheather or not the story from Backwoods Home Magazine is correct or not - concerning some things known about the gun - it would jibe with the direction - self defense - the defendent’s lawyer appears headed.

[101stAirborneVet]

Makes perfect sense since Stand Your Ground doesn’t apply to someone who is pinned to the ground and couldn’t retreat anyway.

[CharlesWayneCT]

I heard he looked exactly like Mahlia Obama, if she was a guy.

[FreedomPoster]

For those interested in the available factual information, much of it is here. The local authorities have done a decent job of making the evidence in this case available to the public, unlike most of the media, which seems primarily interested in whipping up an enraged mob rather than assembling and reporting the facts.

http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf

In addition to that, here are a couple of news reports from local stations before this became a racialist cause celebe. They seem much better than anything we are seeing now. One includes the report from the guy who saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman pummeling him.

http://www.wesh.com/r-video/30696935/detail.html

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4

The news reports coming out now seem designed primarily to whip up a racialist frenzy, rather than throw light on the events.

Now, there isn’t “a report that Zimmerman had actually quit following Martin and was returning to his vehicle” - there is the statement of Zimmerman to the 911 operator as he is walking around the complex that he had lost sight of Martin. Listen to the first 911 call at the first link.

[FreeAtlanta]

In other words, you're a liar - and boy did you pick the wrong subject on this website to lie about.

And you are a pompous idiot. I don't have the greatest memory in the world for every tiny minutia of gun worship like you do, but I have had the safety course. You have got the be the biggest jerk I have ever run into in my many many years on this board. I had a respectable disagreement with 101 and we didn't resort to calling each other liars and other insults. I even learned a thing or two, but your approach was appalling.