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DOOMSDAY PREPPING – PLAN FIRST, BUY LATER
Preparedness Blog ^ | 4/5/12 | TIM SHETTLESWORTH

Posted on 04/05/2012 4:52:18 PM PDT by Kartographer

I keep hearing statements about how expensive it is to prep. Although it is not cheap it doesn’t have to be that expensive either. You do not need to stock 20 years worth of food to be properly prepared. As a matter of fact I would advise against it. Stockpiling a large food and water supply means you have to stay put and defend it. That may not be your best option in a lot of scenarios which means you would lose that investment. Do you think you really have enough ammo to defend a 20 year food supply for 20 years? The cost of that alone would be staggering.

One big mistake in prepping that most people make including me is waste when you first start out. Either buying the wrong things (toys and gimmicks) or finding out later as you become more experienced that a lot of the things you bought in the beginning you really do not need.

(Excerpt) Read more at preparednessblogs.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: preparedness; prepperping; preppers; selfreliance; shtf; survivalping
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Some good food for thought especially for those just starting.
1 posted on 04/05/2012 4:52:29 PM PDT by Kartographer
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To: Kartographer

For those who are just starting or are old hands at prepping you may find my Preparedness Manual helpfull. You can download it at:

http://tomeaker.com/kart/Preparedness1j.pdf

NOTE! THIS IS A FREE DOWNLOAD. I DO NOT MAKE ONE CENT OFF MY PREPAREDNESS MANUAL!

For those of you who haven’t started already it’s time to prepare almost past time maybe. You needed to be stocking up on food guns, ammo, basic household supplies like soap, papergoods, cleaning supplies, good sturdy clothes including extra socks, underwear and extra shoes and boots, a extra couple changes of oil and filters for your car, tools, things you buy everyday start buying two and put one up.

As the LDS say “When the emergency is upon us the time for preparedness has past.”

Or as the bible says: A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
NIV Proverbs 22:3

Lastly this for the doubters and the scoffers.

“There is no greater disaster than to underestimate danger.

Underestimation can be fatal.”


2 posted on 04/05/2012 4:54:08 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Preppers’ PING!


3 posted on 04/05/2012 4:54:58 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: sauropod

read


4 posted on 04/05/2012 4:54:58 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: Kartographer
Do you think you really have enough ammo to defend a 20 year food supply for 20 years? The cost of that alone would be staggering.

As would be the work of burying hundreds of bodies.

5 posted on 04/05/2012 4:58:06 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Kartographer

Don’t forget matches, toilet paper, a way to purify water, etc.


6 posted on 04/05/2012 4:59:17 PM PDT by MtnClimber (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth. —Theodore Roosevelt)
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To: Kartographer

Thank you. If ObamaRomney gets elected, we’re in for it.


7 posted on 04/05/2012 5:00:07 PM PDT by Elvina (BHO is doubleplus ungood.)
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To: Elvina

If ObamaRomney gets elected, we’re in for it.


It’s almost certain that one of them will be elected so there’s no “if’ about it.


8 posted on 04/05/2012 5:05:30 PM PDT by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: Sherman Logan

Two words: Hog Feed


9 posted on 04/05/2012 5:08:31 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

Nothing more valuable than a network of trusted friends, neighbors, and relatives.


10 posted on 04/05/2012 5:08:31 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Sherman Logan
“As would be the work of burying hundreds of bodies.”
Put the first 4 or 5 prominently on display will help cut down on the workload.
11 posted on 04/05/2012 5:09:33 PM PDT by bitterohiogunclinger (Proudly casting a heavy carbon footprint as I clean my guns ---)
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To: Kartographer
Do you think you really have enough ammo to defend a 20 year food supply for 20 years?

Nope. 4 days or so with one aimed round per minute 24 hours a day has always been my benchmark. And a cushion. Depends on who has ammo on sale. ;)

But you are correct. I actually save about 12-18% stocking up. I buy what I buy, and when there is a sale, I buy more, and stock it. 15% off special on tuna? Instead of 2 cans, I'll buy 10. Tuna keeps.

Same with all the canned goods and lots of dry goods.

Toilet paper prices NEVER go down. Ever. Anything you buy today will be better and cheaper than what you can buy next year. And it keeps forever if it's kept dry.

Part of it is being single. I love using mirepoix (two parts onion, one part carrot, one part celery) in lots of dishes. Very classically french. But one man that doesn't eat a lot can't eat one sales unit of fresh celery before it goes bad. So I keep what I'll need for fresh, and dehydrate the rest.

/johnny

12 posted on 04/05/2012 5:10:47 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Sherman Logan
As would be the work of burying hundreds of bodies.

Think backhoe and front-end loader. Those are good skillsets to have.

/johnny

13 posted on 04/05/2012 5:13:31 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: cripplecreek
Nothing more valuable than a network of trusted friends, neighbors, and relatives.

Worth repeating. Louder.

/johnny

14 posted on 04/05/2012 5:15:50 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Kartographer
Don't forget pet food. Dry dog or cat food will keep, and depending on the length of an emergency, it may save you from having to destroy a loved pet.

I once had to kill a pet rabbit so we could eat it. I don't want to do that again.

15 posted on 04/05/2012 5:17:09 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney (book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Something that never seems to come up in these discussions of fighting to defend your family and property.

Let us assume you gun down a group of attackers successfully. When you go to scope things, some percentage of them will be wounded, not dead.

Do you kill them in cold blood, leave them to die slowly where they lie, or take them in to patch them up, using up your space, food and medical supplies, the keeping of which was pretty much the point behind shooting them in the first place?

I’m really curious how this would be dealt with. In most of the movies the attackers are all conveniently dead.


16 posted on 04/05/2012 5:20:15 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan
a) Children and wimmen stay inside until the area is clear, unless one of the wimmenfolks has a bad grudge against the goblins.

b)When you return with the all clear, they were all conveniently dead. No further discussion allowed.

c)Prayer and absolution as required by your faith.

It's not a game, it's not philosophy if it gets to that point. It's survival.

/johnny

17 posted on 04/05/2012 5:32:16 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Sherman Logan

I’s say it depends if one of them is able to use a shovel...


18 posted on 04/05/2012 5:34:49 PM PDT by Errant
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To: Sherman Logan
When you go to scope things, some percentage of them will be wounded, not dead. Do you kill them in cold blood

Shooting a looter is not "in cold blood."

19 posted on 04/05/2012 5:35:28 PM PDT by matt1234 (Bring back the HUAC.)
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To: matt1234

Shooting a severely wounded or unconcious man laying on the ground is indeed in cold blood. You may or may not believe it’s justified, but it’s done for cold-blooded reasons of practicality, not in the heat of battle or in self-defense.


20 posted on 04/05/2012 5:37:52 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan
that why they're called ZOMBIES, don't ya watch the movies ya have to shoot'm in the head to kill'm ;)
21 posted on 04/05/2012 5:39:04 PM PDT by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: Kartographer

” DOOMSDAY PREPPING – PLAN FIRST, BUY LATER “

One recurring problem I see in many of these threads is that many people mistake ‘event’ planning/prepping for DOOMSDAY planning/prepping...

Event planning concentrates on a specific event, ie. hurricane, tornado, earthquake, economic trouble, civil unrest, nuclear/biological threat (man-caused disaster or natural/accidental occurence) and other, more exotic and less probable events - and reflect ‘normalcy bias’, in that regardless of the event, order will be, in due course, restored and all will be as before...

DOOMDAY planning recognizes that all events have certain consequences in common, and assumes that those consequences will hold sway indefinitely..

DOOMSDAY preppers carry into our planning the vision of a world without ‘essential’ aspects that we have taken for granted - such as, electric power, motorized transportation, food deliveries, government activities (especially including effective law enforcement and firefighting), and long-distance communications.. (an admittedly partial list, but it covers some basics..)

It’s only after we have that vision firmly fixed in mind that we can start to do real planning and prepping, which, we soon find, means that food/fuel/essential goods storage, while a good first step, is only the beginning, and the next step is to identify the skills* (and the attitudes) we will need to acquire or hone in order to thrive in an essentially 18th century world....

Extreme?? Hopefully so - but if we’re prepped for the *real* end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it, then the ‘events’ will be pretty much taken in stride....

* A partial list of skills that should be useful —

-gardening/farming/hunting & fishing/animal husbandry (with emphasis on nutrition principles)...
-food preparation (including butchering meat animals) and preservation (using only wood for fuel and no refrigeration)
-water procurement and treatment
-basic carpentry, plumbing, and metalworking (with emphasis on hand tools and adapting materials at hand/scrounged/scavenged)
-first aid, herbal medicine, and home remedies
(and, as a sop to the Keyboard Kommandos)
-self-defense and weapons training.. (Actually a short-term prep, because in a true collapse, either the predators will be dead, or we will, in pretty short order..)


22 posted on 04/05/2012 5:40:41 PM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: Kartographer

Do any of you Preppers dip your canned food in paraffin for storage? I just threw out a Costco case of tomato paste because I opened three cans and each one exploded as I cut into the lid. Wondering if paraffin would have helped. They were stored indoors in a controlled environment (my pantry).


23 posted on 04/05/2012 5:41:14 PM PDT by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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To: JoeFromSidney
I once had to kill a pet rabbit so we could eat it.

From the time I was 7 until I was 14, I raised and slaughtered rabbits for money. Just don't ever name them. Because you eventually even eat the breeders.

Did it again about 10 years ago with New Zealands. Bought 2nd at show at the Ft. Worth Fat Stock Show for a breeding doe, and paid a price for it.

She had some great babies. 6 weeks from birth to pan.

A bad spot in the fence and a dog pack wiped that out.

/johnny

24 posted on 04/05/2012 5:42:03 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Sherman Logan
"Do you kill them in cold blood, leave them to die slowly where they lie, or take them in to patch them up, using up your space, food and medical supplies, the keeping of which was pretty much the point behind shooting them in the first place?"

Hopefully one or two of them are still able to use a shovel. Once they get finished with disposing of their dead then we gonna have us Q&A session. Then those of us who were defending will have a fair trial. And those who were attacking will be found guilty and either exiled or hung/shot. (That is if we are truly in a SHTF all government gone type situation.)

25 posted on 04/05/2012 5:42:54 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Sherman Logan
Let us assume you gun down a group of attackers successfully. When you go to scope things, some percentage of them will be wounded, not dead.

That's when a good knife comes in handy...it saves on ammo. Once they've been questioned they are dispatched. No compassion...No remorse.

26 posted on 04/05/2012 5:43:44 PM PDT by voicereason (Dems, Pubbies...too often a one-sided coin.)
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To: Kartographer

Good site, great info, K. Thanks!


27 posted on 04/05/2012 5:44:59 PM PDT by carriage_hill (I'd vote for a "orange juice can", before 0bummer&HisRegimeFromHell, gets another 4yrs. Can-> later.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Should one decide to choose option number one, ammo can be cheaper and quieter at that stage of the conflict.

Sig and others offer 22LR slide conversions for some of their .3x - .4x caliber semi auto handguns, enabling a quick change of caliber.


28 posted on 04/05/2012 5:45:23 PM PDT by EasySt (Life is precious. Live it well.)
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To: JoeFromSidney
When I was five years old, I went to my grandfather and told him I had given all of his pigs names. I was pretty proud of myself and kind of shocked when he shook his head and said, "We don't name the pigs."

"Why not?"

"We never give something a name that we're going to eat later."

(Imagine my big-eyed look.) That conversation has always stuck with me.

29 posted on 04/05/2012 5:45:37 PM PDT by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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To: Kartographer
Do you think you really have enough ammo to defend a 20 year food supply for 20 years?

LOL, well K, I'm really not sure about this issue -- just how much ammo would it take to defend a food supply for 20 years?

30 posted on 04/05/2012 5:47:39 PM PDT by Col Freeper (FR is a smorgasbord of Conservative thoughts and ideas - dig in and enjoy it to its fullest!)
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To: ponygirl

?” I just threw out a Costco case of tomato paste because I opened three cans and each one exploded as I cut into the lid “

I’ve had the same experience with tomato paste, and also tomato sauce and other canned tomato products.. Best I’ve been able to figure is that highly acidic canned products don’t store well, and I stay away from them...

If anyone has better information, I’m sure willing to listen and learn... ;)


31 posted on 04/05/2012 5:49:02 PM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: JRandomFreeper; Sherman Logan

You guys are heartless. All this talk about burying hundreds of bodies.

I mean really, what the heck are the zombies gonna eat if you go burying the bodies.


32 posted on 04/05/2012 5:50:41 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Sherman Logan
Shooting a severely wounded or unconcious man laying on the ground is indeed in cold blood.

What would you do?

33 posted on 04/05/2012 5:52:57 PM PDT by matt1234 (Bring back the HUAC.)
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To: matt1234

Give him a Band-Aid and say “Here, have some free healthcare. Courtesy of Obama.”


34 posted on 04/05/2012 5:55:12 PM PDT by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Its a good question. However if things are that bad I certainly won’t be bringing the enemy into my home, nor expending priceless materials to save them.

Perhaps you give them a trial on the spot and sentence them accordingly.

If someone approaches peacefully they get peace. If they approach in a hostile manner they’ll get a piece of lead going real fast.


35 posted on 04/05/2012 5:55:12 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Kartographer

Just do what I do when I shop.

I buy one or two extra of things or something extra I think might help.

Salt. Dirt cheap and not more than .50 cents per.

Seasonings. Again, Dirt Cheap and found at the dollar store.

Baking Soda. Way dirt cheap. Walmart sells big ole boxes of the sruff, and I mean big for $2.

canned meats, veggies, suops beans etc. Dollar store. Stock up.

I ate from my stash 3 times this week because I just didn’t feel like going to a restaurant.

Razors. I buy an extra box whenever I buy em and I have at least two years worth of razors just in the house. At the office maybe more.

Same thing with shaving cream and after shave skin balm. I use Neutreugena because it doesn’t have odors, works really well and the after shave balm has spf 30. I got tons of this stuff.

Qtip. Cheap, Cheap, Cheap and I have years worth.

bar soap. Love Dial and the dollar store sells em cheap. Maybe two years worth.

Shampoo. Neutragena again. I use Tgel shampoo and the conditioner. couple of years again.

Alcohol and H2O@. Cheap and I just pick up a little extra every once in a while.

Hint for H2O2. There aren’t many things that actually go bad on the “Use by Date” but h202 does, even if you store in a cool dark place.

I mark each bottle in permananent marker for the day I got it and then 3 years from that date.

I’ve tested H202 for efficacy for stuff I knew was three years old and sure enough, no fizz.

No fizz, no good.

Sunblock. Got such a good deal on Nuetragena Sport spf 50 a few years ago I probably have enough for 5 years if I used it during snowboard season and in the summer.

Then again, I am always buying the stuff so who knows how much I have.

Deodorant? I just buy two whenever I buy them and I don’t think I need any for at least two years. I use Dry Idea(sensitive underarms) and Rock Crystals.

Ibuprofen, Aspirin, Diarrheal and other medications? Same habit of buying. More than enough for years...If I used them every day, which I don’t.

Aloe Vera. I go to Whole Foods for this. I use some rather expensive stuff that can be used for hair gel, skin issues, etc. It is literally the best and it’s by “Aloe Life”. I think I have enough for two years but will get some more next week and again, I buy in two’s. This stuff ain’t cheap but in my opinion is the best. $15 for 8 ounces.

I also have several other bottles of Aloe Vera, so I’m good for a long time.

Got tons of Icy Hot, Tiger Balm, DMSO and Veterinary Strength Absorbine. Bought em all in two’s and I won’t need more if the STHTF.

Betadine? Check.

Iodine? Check.

The ability to purify, not filter but, purify water? Check and check.

I have two Lifesaver bottles with backup filters and prefilters for each. I can make pure water out of 6,000 gallons of yucky Katrina water.

I also have two Katadyns but they are mostly for hiking.

I chose the Lifesaver system because of it’s portability. It’s the size of a thermos and delivers pure water as fast I’m going to require for four people.

Of course, I’ll be using one at a time but if I need Pure H20 faster I can use two at a time.

Batteries. I have enough batteries to run my various LED Flashlights for months even with continuous use. I also have more rechargeable battire than I’ll ever need. So they will always be available.

I can charge 16 batteries at a time so I can keep up with just about anything and they are all charged.

I also understand when you need light and how much so I won’t just run the lights at full power in the event of an emergency, if I think it’s long term. At the lowest setting, just about any of my lights can run over 100 hours of continuous use. At the highest they run about 2 hours.

The output on any of them ranges from 120 lumens to 820 lumens. Most use the same battries AA so I don’t have to fuss with looking for batteries.

I have several that run AA and more than enough battries for them as well.

Knives? Got a jillion of them and my fav is just about anything by CRKT. I have 15-20 sharpeners and 5 or six stone systems.

Rope. Couple of thousand feet of rope. Maybe 1,000 feet of climbing rope and 3 climbing systems. 1,500 feet of paracord(only $34.95 for 1,000) from a company that is certified to deliver to DOD.

Carabiners? I have more than I need on three backpacks and I don’t know how many of those Nite Eyes carabiners I have but dang they come in handy when I need them.

Axes? Don’t axe me. I just picked up another two weeks ago and realized I already had two of the same one and some others.

Saws? Dunno? I thought I had two and wanted another for my other GOTO, that I THOUGHT, didn’t have one and another for my car.

BTW, they are SVENN Saws and a total must have. They are very, very, durable and realiable. Cut most anything and can be used by one person. I gues I have six of them after that buying mistake. I don’t do returns.

Food? Got plenty at home. Got more at the office and more in two different storages I would have anyway.

Ammo? Haven’t a clue. I just buy stuff and even for calibers I don’t shoot. Never know.

Gun cleaning kits> I just pick a little here and a little there. I have enough for a hunting party to clean everyone’s guns.

First Aid triage type? I have six GSW/Chest Wound kits of the type our guys use in the ME and the Secret Service carries. Made them myself for I think 1/2 what they usually cost pre-made. Made two for my brother as well.

Burn Kits? Maybe four? Lucky you if I happen to have one with me. I did save a person from 2nd if not 3rd degree burns with one of my kits a few years ago.

SAM Splints. 11. There was a sale on something I think I hit the wrong button. If you break something around me I can probably stabilize it.

Space pens. I don’t have any idea. Seems like every time I go to REI I get another one or two. Same with the write anywhere paper.

Compasses? I must have 15 or so. I always carry two on my bags and they are lanyarded to my shoulder strap. Nothing like getting lost because you can’t do even dead reckoning.

Coleman Shower bags? No clue but for $10 they carry 5 gallons and the footprint is perfect. The also have a handle.

Inner tubes for bikes and repair kits? Just a bunch of repair kits and 3 sets of inner tubes that have that seal a flat goo already in them.

I didn’t acquire all this overnight and I have always had the habit of buying two of most things. It took years and now takes nothing to keep replenishing.

Point is: It doesn’t have to break your bank account to prepare for life’s eventualities. Who knows? Maybe it will never happen to you but I have had enough things happen to me I just expect they will.

Another way of thinking about all this is maybe not prepping but rather Contingency Planning.

Having a contingent plan demonstrates you recognize stuff happens and happens all the time but, that you are prepared and understand you are responsible for you and your loved ones.

The 1st responder is always you.

If you are snowed in so is everyone else.

If you are in danger of a forest/brush fire so is everyone else.

If you in danger of a flood so is everyone else.

If you are in danger of an earthquake so is everyone else.

If you are in danger of a riot so is everyone else.

The point is “Why wouldn’t you set your life up so you are not in further danger by mobs who are in the same predicament?”

Why would you want to go to the grocery store when desperate people are there?

It takes just so very little to get yourself in a decent position to not interact with Golden Hordes.

Just buy a little extra here and a little extra there.


36 posted on 04/05/2012 5:56:26 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: driftdiver
Gotta stay tidy. Sarge and the surgeon bitch about the stench of dead bodies and the disease thing.

It's not like I'm big on volunteering for a burial detail. I have better things to be doing.

/johnny

37 posted on 04/05/2012 5:56:36 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Sherman Logan
Do you kill them in cold blood, leave them to die slowly where they lie, or take them in to patch them up, using up your space, food and medical supplies, the keeping of which was pretty much the point behind shooting them in the first place?

I’m really curious how this would be dealt with. In most of the movies the attackers are all conveniently dead.

Leaving your defensive position would be a tactically poor decision to put down the remaining live ones do not waste valuable bullets on the soon to be dead. Forget rendering aid they came to kill you and your family let them bleed out where they lie. If they are attracting to much attention because of noise send a single executioner out under cover of snipers to bayonet them into silence. If any are still alive enough to get up and retreat use your high powered scoped rifle and make sure they never leave the battlefield lest they go back and recruit more "zombies" (the PC term I have grown fond of)to come back for retribution; make no mistake not a single enemy can leave the battlefield alive. When the shit goes down there will be only two types of people remaining those who have/will kill to survive, be that cold blooded or not and those who will be killed by the first group.

38 posted on 04/05/2012 6:01:06 PM PDT by JD_UTDallas ("Veni Vidi Vici")
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To: Sherman Logan

Not sure. If they ain’t to loud while they are lying there dying I’d probably let em be.

It theys noisy, it’d probably get on nerves real quick and by unsettling to my luv’d ones. Then I might pray for them, put them out of everyone’s misery and pray for them again.

Of course, unlike the movies, I’d round up anything they mightuh left behind.

Knives, guns ammo, whiskey(any alcohol) ropes, whatever.


39 posted on 04/05/2012 6:04:49 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: ponygirl

Tomatoes and tomato sauce are high in acid which is in turn hard on the cans. Not sure dipping them would have done any good as the damage most likely was from the inside.


40 posted on 04/05/2012 6:08:47 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Vendome

“Of course, unlike the movies, I’d round up anything they mightuh left behind.”

Interesting point. In ‘The Patroit’ and a few other books they shoot looters. Now I can understand stealing stuff from occupied land as being looting.

What if the place is abandoned or everyone remaining dead? Do you take useful objects?


41 posted on 04/05/2012 6:09:17 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Sherman Logan

SHOOTING an unconscious or gravely wounded person is your FIRST mistake. You’re wasting ammo at that point. And if it’s truly a SHTF survival situation, you strip them first, before slitting throats. Clothing and equipment are valuable, attackers are not. . . It’s cold, but if things are that bad, a whole lot of the niceties of civilization will be put aside. . .


42 posted on 04/05/2012 6:10:18 PM PDT by Salgak
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To: driftdiver

” What if the place is abandoned or everyone remaining dead? Do you take useful objects? “

That’s the difference between ‘looting’, which is beyond the pale, and ‘scavenging’ which is, however distasteful, an essential survival skill


43 posted on 04/05/2012 6:15:43 PM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: Vendome
"Of course, unlike the movies, I’d round up anything they mightuh left behind."

Good point once they had all expired or been thoroughly interrogated as to the nature, location, and numbers of their kind then quickly terminated via the Garrote or the noose anything of use would be confiscated. The bodies would be feed to the pigs to be recycled into edible protein. To the victors go the spoils. Like I said before there will be those who will kill to survive and those who will be killed if a total collapse happens civility, morals, and petty legalities will mean less than nothing.

44 posted on 04/05/2012 6:16:16 PM PDT by JD_UTDallas ("Veni Vidi Vici")
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To: Uncle Ike; ponygirl
"I’ve had the same experience with tomato paste, and also tomato sauce and other canned tomato products.. Best I’ve been able to figure is that highly acidic canned products don’t store well, and I stay away from them..."

In the fall of 2010 I bought a case of sardines in tomato sauce. Stored that in my cellar. In August, TS Irene came and my cellar was flooded. It remained flooded for about 10 days. My canned food was under water that entire time, as well as wine bottles. When I was able to clean the cellar, all canned food seemed to have survived. Some cans rusted along the edges. The tomato sardine cans were a puzzle. They expanded. Looked like balls. I could not figure out why since they were well within the expiration date. Maybe it was the water temperature, or pressure? But now that you mention it, it could be the tomato acid which may have caused it.

Maybe tomato items should be removed from the metal cans and canned in glass jars.

Some wine bottles lost their labels. I had to taste test these to make sure they were still good. LOL. The bottles that were uncorked months later had mold between the cork and metal. One bottle tasted watery.

45 posted on 04/05/2012 6:18:56 PM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: Sherman Logan
Shooting a severely wounded or unconcious man laying on the ground is indeed in cold blood.

In post #13, your scenario stated they were "attackers" that were shot down. Attackers are the enemy. As you move across the objective, you cap each in the head so they aren't able to shoot you in the back as you continue to survey the area. It's not cold blood, it's survival. They attacked, they paid the price.

46 posted on 04/05/2012 6:25:53 PM PDT by Sarajevo (Money cannot buy happiness, but it's more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than on a bicycle.)
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To: Kartographer
Interesting stat on Nat Geos Prepper episode last night:

In the U.S. there are 9 firearms for every 10 people.

47 posted on 04/05/2012 6:32:08 PM PDT by QT3.14 (OBAMA's life: a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma)
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To: Kartographer

I would like to throw in props for “When All Hell Breaks Loose”, by Cody Lundin.
Unfortunatly a great deal of the first part of it is written is rather hippy-dippy psychobabble, but once one gets through that it is really based on old school common sense. Know your neighbors, have a plan, ‘dig your well before you are thirsty”, as he puts it “stuff your grandparents would have regarded as common sense”. Sort of aimed to the urban hipster but really overall well focused on rational and economical approaches to being ready for a disaster of days to weeks.
He had a statistic that ‘40 percent of all Americans will have to deal with a natural disaster at some point in their lives’....
Don’t let his long hair and bandana and new age aphorisms fool you, he listened to grandparents, and Indians and other folks who knew about survival in the worst that this country can throw at you.

The nexus is really deciding on time frame: days? weeks? years? once you know how LONG the most economical and effective strategies are easier to figure out. Me, I find it past the point of diminishing returns to do what I would need to do for complete societal breakdown for years or decades, but no extrinsic water, power or social order for a week or two is well within my means to prep for....


48 posted on 04/05/2012 6:33:56 PM PDT by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, DEA and ATF.)
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To: Uncle Ike

Yup, it’s the acid. Rotate your stock and use up your (metal)canned tomato annually. I try to buy wet canned tomato products in glass. Freeze dried should not be a problem in metal cans with O2 absorbers or nitrogen fill.


49 posted on 04/05/2012 6:34:50 PM PDT by Cold Heart
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To: driftdiver
“What if the place is abandoned or everyone remaining dead? Do you take useful objects?”

Hell yes you take everything of use from an abandoned or house of the dead if you do not someone else will. That is scavenging not looting as pointed out earlier which is a vital skill that no survivalist should ever consider themselves “above”. The real danger is people who have the skills to be tactically dangerous such as former Soldiers, Marines and mercenaries that may not hold the same moral grounding as the fine folks here on FR. The last time I was at the local gun store there was a couple of people buying only guns and ammo and blatantly mouthing off they have no plans on prepping food stores “if the shit does down they are going take from those who do have them” no quarter will be given to such men it is the noose if they are lucky.

One large cache of prep is a bad idea, multiple smaller spider holes scattered over an defensible area is better should one location be compromised alternatives are available. Remember clear fields of fire, Cover not just concealment, and a route of evac should there be a need for a tactical retreat.

50 posted on 04/05/2012 6:36:21 PM PDT by JD_UTDallas ("Veni Vidi Vici")
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