Skip to comments.Unfamiliar with his “Christian beliefs”, Obama declares “Jesus had doubts”
Posted on 04/08/2012 1:07:37 PM PDT by jmaroneps37
Maybe somebody should call Father Jenkins at Notre Dame and ask him to teach his pal Barack a bit about the religious doctrines Obama professes to believe.
Last Wednesday at a White House Prayer Breakfast Barack Obama took his plan to redesign Christian doctrine up a notch.
To the stunned amazement of onlookers Obama the Muslim trained and educated president challenged the divinity of Jesus Christ. Of course he thought he was clever with his sop to Islam and his finger in the eye pronouncement, but his remarks leave no doubt about his continuing hostility toward the biggest obstacle to Islams world domination: Roman Catholicism.
Comparing himself to Jesus Christ, Obama told his audience, For like us, Jesus knew doubt. Like us, Jesus knew fear. In the garden of Gethsemane, with attackers closing in around him, Jesus told His disciples, my soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. We all have experiences that shake our faith. There are times where we have questions for Gods plan relative to us. But thats precisely when we should remember Christs own doubts and eventually his own triumph.
A professor of theology at a Catholic Catholic university (as opposed to the fake Catholic universities) commented on Obamas remarks saying, My question is what would He be doubting? Would He be doubting the Fathers care and merciful love?
Is He doubting the value of his mission? I dont think there is any real context that I could understand to say Jesus doubted.
Keeping in mind that Muslims dont believe Jesus was divine makes sense of these remarks. Obama was obviously projecting his own doubts about who Jesus was
.the Bible does not say Jesus who is God had any doubts. But why would Obama know that?
(Excerpt) Read more at coachisright.com ...
Jesus knew that when He became sin for us,He would for the first time be totally seperated from our Father. A man without sin to become sin, even for someone like Barack Obama, if he was smart enought to accept Jesus as his savior.
But I think obama considers himself divine and without need of a savior.
..He did ask, however, that the cup be removed...he knew what suffering he'd face....God said no.
Yes, he acts like he is now nuts. Can’t guess whether it’s drug-induced or genetic, but he is definitely sounding nuttier by the day.
And he looks physically not well. Looks extremely frail and skinny - like a breeze would knock him over.
Quotation from Elijah? That wasn't a quote from Elijah. It's a quote from Psalm 22--King David. It's a Messianic Psalm.
1My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring...
13They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. (KJV)
Obvious it works for him...his followers still follow.
Obama is more familiar with the Muslim view of Jesus. [The Great RJ, post #50]
Uh-oh. Now you've both done it.
Doncha know there's hundreds of FREEPERS who have either mildly objected
-- or in many dozens of cases -- denigrated & castigated --
--any poster who dare discusses the religion of a POTUS candidate?
They've repeatedly entered into Romney threads...the "they" being FREEPER laissez-faire types...or scolders...or the "bigot patrol":
#1 There's the "laissez-faire" FREEPER approach to Romney's Mormonism: "I don't care about Romney's religion...It doesn't bother me what Romney's religion is...it's his [X, Y, Z] in his track record, etc."
#2 There's also the FREEPER "scolders": "Thou shalt NOT focus on religion. I'm not electing a pastor-in-chief. Stick to politics. Stick to the economy. Let's keep religion hermetically sealed!"
#3 And then there's those who up the ante and just start accusing as the self-appointed "bigot patrol" -- and they toss out the "b" labels like a good liberal tactic...[Who cares about the content discussion]
IOW...we see from the...
...laissez-faire FREEPERs mentioned above all kinds of caveats and qualifiers;
...from the scolders plenty of chastisement over our refusal to "properly" "compartmentalize" worldviews;
...and from the "bigot" accusers all kinds of zealous intensified presentations of the "thou shalt not critique religious expressions" -- all as they critique our religious expressions! [Go figure that self-refutation out!]
Will they pop out on Easter day to scold away @ people who might dare comment on Obama's "faith?" (Now that posters on this thread have "violated" their "keep religion out" "principles"???)
Nope...they are either too busy on Easter...or too hypocritical to apply their so-called "convictions" across the board.
It is not a Christian thing to accuse somebody of being hateful because of a disagreement. And, it is a fool who accuses another of being hateful and then attempts to engage that person in a conversation. As I do not presume you to not be a Christian or to be fool, I’ll dismiss the insult as a mere slip of the pen.
Traditionally, Christians take Jesus statement, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” to be the opening verse of Psalm 22.
The following is a rather standard commentary on this:
The traditional Christian arguments are very similar concerning the three temptations, Jesus’ overturning the bankers’ tables at the Temple, his condemning the barren fig tree, and so forth. I also like the humor and sarcasm of Jesus, such as Jesus’ banter with the woman at the well, and when he told his disciples that two swords would be enough.
Your point, that Jesus was both fully human and fully divine, and so personally experienced the full range of human emotions that we experience is valid and very important. Jesus is our intermediary with God. Because of Jesus, we can be confident that God will understand us.
It seems to me that you would also say the human side of Jesus doubted even though the divine side of Jesus knew. Actually, this sounds like a reasonable position, and if it helps you to understand the mystery of Jesus’ dual nature, then it’s a good thing. But, the other position, the traditional one, is that Jesus said what he said for our sake, so that we would know that there are times when questioning God is o.k.
Having thought about this, I think the Copts may be onto something, that it’s a mistake to think of Jesus as having two natures, one human and one divine. Jesus had one nature that was both human and divine. This inclines me to think that Jesus allowed himself to be tempted and invoked the beginning of Psalm 22 for our sake, not that he ever felt tempted or actually doubted God.
As to doubt and fear, we, being human, certainly doubt and have fear. Therefore, we need to have faith and hope. Faith and hope, along with love, are therefore the Christian virtues. Paul says that in the fullness of time, we will not need faith or hope, because we will know. But, we will still have love. Jesus, being divine, was from the beginning of time, in the state we will be at the end of time. He knows, therefore, he neither doubts nor fears, and he doesn’t need faith or hope. Jesus loves.
Finally, I come to the verse invoked by the President, where Jesus said he was full of sorrow. The traditional Christian understanding of this verse is that Jesus was about to take upon himself the sins of the world, which made his full of sorrow. This verse is certainly not a proof with regard to Jesus’ doubt or fear.
Had Dubya tried this type of rhetoric, the Leftwing #ers in the Media would have eviscerated him.
This Jesus rhetoric is nothing but Commie deceit in action.
Since Obama isn’t a theologian, I’m gonna give him a pass on this one. The Garden of Gethsemene is like the thief on the cross. It spawns lots of discussion.
I don’t think Jesus had doubts, but I do think He did say, “Take this cup from me.” By that, I think He was saying He knew the ordeal would be awful. He was sane, so He didn’t want to go through that. Jesus was no masochist. He went through it because of a greater purpose.
Do I expect some politician to get that? It would be nice if they did, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t.
In closing, let me say that my opinion is that members of liberal churches — and Obama was the member of such a church under Jeremiah Wright — would tend to still be unbelievers. My other observations of Obama lead me to think his religious forays are opportunistic.
Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Luke 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. _______________________________________
Why did Jesus value his life so much? Because as The Son of God and as the absolutely perfect Son of Man His life had so much value and was so unspeakably precious that we cannot even begin to understand it, but as one with perfect understanding, He did. What He was giving up for us we cannot even begin to fathom. Jesus loved life perfectly. In His prayer we are shown that He did not have a martyr's complex, meaning that He wasn't in any way driven or compulsed to die. He gave His life up for us totally aware of what it would be like and what it would mean as far as buying our salvation, our way out of eternal hell and into loving eternal fellowship and life in the Kingdom of Heaven. He gave His life for us freely.
His asking The Father if He was willing to remove the cup from him shows that there was any other way, the one and only way for any of us to be saved would by His death. It shows us that there is no other conceivable way, even in the infinite mind of God for us to be saved, no other possible route for us to The Father. If we were to be saved He must suffer and die the horrible death on the cross that He did die in our place for us. By the action of His own will Jesus would stay on the cross all the way through and until He died. At any time He had the power to stop the Crucifixion. Willing Himself, He stayed there for us.
Jesus was not doubting, He was preparing Himself for what He knew that He would do. He was going to die in our place, paying the price justice demands for every horrible, demented, perverted, wicked sin humanity ever committed. He would do this by sacrificing His own precious and perfect life. He would shed His atoning blood and allow His body to broken unto death. He bought us with His blood.
Two things motivated Him, as The Son of God His obedience to His Father whom He loved, honored and was in complete subjection to and as The Son of Man His utter love and compassion for us.
(RichInOC, post # 24):
Pleased to meet you...hope you guess my name...
But whats puzzling you is just the nature of my game...
(unkus, post #4)
“0bama is simply playing to the ignorant for his political purposes. Hes a master at that.
He always relies on the ignorance of most people to push his agenda. The sheep fall for most of it and the media never call him on anything.”
Thank you, RichInOC and unkus. And, RoosterRedux, you must admit, better “christian” religious speech-writers filling the bill this year.
Are Freepers actually having a Christian theological discussion based on the craven religious comments of a political opportunist???
Satan (or antichrist [small “a”]) said this: @@@@@@. Let’s discuss the merits!
Or, Hitler’s commentary on our Lord Jesus Christ. Let’s debate Hitler’s analysis.
Are ya’ll gone mad?
There are serious and numerous Christian threads for such meritorious discussions. Look up posts by alamogirl, bettyboop, and otherwise sentient xzins. If not found, start a serious FR thread.
But for now, see post 24 by RichinOC. Get a grip.
In case there are any Freepers who think Obama is an honest-—but misguided and undereducated-—Christian, I can provide evidence from his own lips that he is NOT a Christian in the biblical or saved sense of the Word. [It is NOT the faux pas in the George Stephanopoulo interview, nor anyone’s judgment of his “good works” or “fruits of his faith.”]
Here it is (for anyone in doubt). (IIRC, not published until after his election):
NOTWITHSTANDING, his most recent and deeply confessing Christian declarations to date-—It’s a most desperate election year, dontcha know:
Address under discussion (Prayer Breakfast):
Remarks by the President at Easter Prayer Breakfast
9:43 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Good morning, everybody. (Applause.) Please, have a seat. Have a seat. Well, welcome to the White House. It is a pleasure to be with all of you this morning.
In less than a week, this house will be overrun by thousands of kids at the Easter Egg Roll. (Laughter.) So I wanted to get together with you for a little prayer and reflection — some calm before the storm. (Laughter.)
It is wonderful to see so many good friends here today. To all the faith leaders from all across the country — from churches and congregations large and small; from different denominations and different backgrounds — thank you for coming to our third annual Easter prayer breakfast. And Im grateful that youre here.
Im even more grateful for the work that you do every day of the year — the compassion and the kindness that so many of you express through your various ministries. I know that some of you have joined with our Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships. Ive seen firsthand some of the outstanding work that you are doing in your respective communities, and its an incredible expression of your faith. And I know that all of us who have an opportunity to work with you draw inspiration from the work that you do.
Finally, I want to just express appreciation for your prayers. Every time I travel around the country, somebody is going around saying, were praying for you. (Laughter.) We got a prayer circle going. Dont worry, keep the faith. Were praying. (Laughter.) Michelle gets the same stuff. And that means a lot to us. It especially means a lot to us when we hear from folks who we know probably didnt vote for me — (laughter) — and yet, expressing extraordinary sincerity about their prayers. And its a reminder not only of what binds us together as a nation, but also what binds us together as children of God.
Now, I have to be careful, I am not going to stand up here and give a sermon. Its always a bad idea to give a sermon in front of professionals. (Laughter.) But in a few short days, all of us will experience the wonder of Easter morning. And we will know, in the words of the Apostle Paul, Christ Jesus...and Him crucified.
Its an opportunity for us to reflect on the triumph of the resurrection, and to give thanks for the all-important gift of grace. And for me, and Im sure for some of you, its also a chance to remember the tremendous sacrifice that led up to that day, and all that Christ endured — not just as a Son of God, but as a human being.
For like us, Jesus knew doubt. Like us, Jesus knew fear. In the garden of Gethsemane, with attackers closing in around him, Jesus told His disciples, My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. He fell to his knees, pleading with His Father, saying, If it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. And yet, in the end, He confronted His fear with words of humble surrender, saying, If it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.
So it is only because Jesus conquered His own anguish, conquered His fear, that were able to celebrate the resurrection. Its only because He endured unimaginable pain that wracked His body and bore the sins of the world that He burdened — that burdened His soul that we are able to proclaim, He is Risen!
So the struggle to fathom that unfathomable sacrifice makes Easter all the more meaningful to all of us. It helps us to provide an eternal perspective to whatever temporal challenges we face. It puts in perspective our small problems relative to the big problems He was dealing with. And it gives us courage and it gives us hope.
We all have experiences that shake our faith. There are times where we have questions for Gods plan relative to us — (laughter) — but thats precisely when we should remember Christs own doubts and eventually his own triumph. Jesus told us as much in the book of John, when He said, In this world you will have trouble. I heard an amen. (Laughter.) Let me repeat. In this world, you will have trouble.
THE PRESIDENT: But take heart! (Laughter.) I have overcome the world. (Applause.) We are here today to celebrate that glorious overcoming, the sacrifice of a risen savior who died so that we might live. And I hope that our time together this morning will strengthen us individually, as believers, and as a nation.
And with that, Id like to invite my good friend, Dr. Cynthia Hale, to deliver our opening prayer. Dr. Hale. (Applause.)
9:50 A.M. EDT
For Immediate Release April 07, 2012 WEEKLY ADDRESS: Easter and Passover Greetings from President Obama
WASHINGTON, DCPresident Obama used this weeks address to offer his warmest greetings to all who are celebrating Easter and Passover this weekend, and to reflect on the common thread of humanity that binds us together. President Obama wishes all Americans a joyful weekend focused on the wonders of our individual traditions as well as the values that unite us all.
Remarks of President Barack Obama Weekly Address The White House April 7, 2012
For millions of Americans, this weekend is a time to celebrate redemption at Gods hand. Tonight, Jews will gather for a second Seder, where they will retell the story of the Exodus. And tomorrow, my family will join Christians around the world as we thank God for the all-important gift of grace through the resurrection of His son, and experience the wonder of Easter morning.
These holidays have their roots in miracles that took place thousands of years ago. They connect us to our past and give us strength as we face the future. And they remind us of the common thread of humanity that connects us all.
For me, and for countless other Christians, Easter weekend is a time to reflect and rejoice. Yesterday, many of us took a few quiet moments to try and fathom the tremendous sacrifice Jesus made for all of us. Tomorrow, we will celebrate the resurrection of a savior who died so that we might live.
And throughout these sacred days, we recommit ourselves to following His example. We rededicate our time on Earth to selflessness, and to loving our neighbors. We remind ourselves that no matter who we are, or how much we achieve, we each stand humbled before an almighty God.
Christs triumph over death holds special meaning for Christians. But all of us, no matter how or whether we believe, can identify with elements of His story. The triumph of hope over despair. Of faith over doubt. The notion that there is something out there that is bigger than ourselves.
These beliefs help unite Americans of all faiths and backgrounds. They shape our values and guide our work. They put our lives in perspective.
So to all Christians celebrating the Resurrection with us, Michelle and I want to wish you a blessed and Happy Easter. And to all Americans, I hope you have a weekend filled with joy and reflection, focused on the things that matter most. God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America.
Ending with where I began (RichInOC, post # 24):
Pleased to meet you...hope you guess my name...
But whats puzzling you is just the nature of my game...
Hmmm...Any “honest” comment that I would make here wrt this marxist scum would be absolutely un-Christian.
As much as I despise Øbama...David is referring to corrupt men around him, here are the first 7 verses in the chapter:
1 O God, whom I praise,
do not remain silent,
2 for wicked and deceitful men
have opened their mouths against me;
they have spoken against me with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround me;
they attack me without cause.
4 In return for my friendship they accuse me,
but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.
6 Appoint [a] an evil man [b] to oppose him;
let an accuser [c] stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
I think he is not a Christian in any sense of the Word. [Nor does he seem to be a practicing Muslim, though he was educated in a Muslim school as a child, and is on record as describing the Muslim Call to Prayer as the most beautiful sound he has ever heard....]
Moreover, a person would have to be deranged to describe Obama as an "honest man": He lies through his teeth about anything and everything, all the time. I gather he believes the "end justifies the means" the "end" being the total destruction and reconstruction of the United States, along "utopian" lines that are totally out of synch with the real world, not to mention the values, traditions, and institutions of the American people. So I just figure he's an atheist on a mission straight out of Screwtape's Tempter's College....
It doesn't matter that "utopian dreams" have never worked out in practice, anytime they have been attempted.
Whatever. What is clearly evident to me is that:
(1) he has taken a wrecking ball to the American constitutional system;Et Cetera.
(2) he has systematically looted the American people, with impunity;
(3) he has systematically undermined America's strength in the international sphere, destabilizing relations with our allies and would-be enemies alike;
(4) he has done everything in his power to shackle our system of free-market capitalism.
(5) he has trashed the U.S. dollar (no wonder gas prices are rising gasoline is a "dollar-denominated" commodity on world markets).
(6) He has made a seemingly effective bid to place one-sixth of the American economy under direct Federal administrative control.
(7) He has made direct threats to the First Amendment and is manufacturing a pretext to go after the Second, too. (What else are we supposed to think "Operation Fast and Furious" is all about?)
(8) He is at war with the several states on a variety of issues, preeminently including healthcare and immigration/border security/national security issues.
(9) He pursues divide and conquer political strategies and tactics, sowing the seeds of class and racial warfare....
In short, I believe down to my bones that this man is effectively running a criminal enterprise out of the White House. It doesn't help him that he is very likely unqualified to hold his office in the first place, inelibigle to be president under Article II, Section 1 grounds.
I know it is considered "tiresome" to say that nowadays, the so-called official long-form birth certificate having finally been released by this White House and the authorities in Hawaii after all these many years.
Still, the problem keeps surfacing in odd ways. A couple of weeks ago, for instance, I read in the British press a description of Obama as "the first Kenyan-born American president in history." (I don't know whether the comment was intended as tongue-in-cheek humor or a statement of approval.)
I doubt Obama was born in Kenya. I also doubt that he is a "natural born citizen of the United States." On the basis of his own statements, Obama acknowledges that he is the son of a Kenyan national/British subject, a citizen of the British Commonwealth. The historical understanding of "natural-born citizen" is a person born of two parents who are American citizens, including citizen parents "naturalized" before the time of birth. [See Vattel, The Law of Nations; the Framers evidently did.]
Anyhoot, IMHO this national election this year is all about removing the criminal conspiracy from the Executive Branch/administrative departments of our federal government. To me, this is Job One. If the American people don't do this, then I truly believe that the sphere of personal liberty in America, not to mention the powers of the several states, will shrink to a nonce under the further machinations of Obama II....
Ultimately, it's all about the defense of the Constitution of the United States of America, the written rule of law transmitted from generation to generation that defends and upholds individual liberty under just and equal laws. It defines a limited government of separated yet balanced powers that is utterly prohibited from exceeding the scope of the enumerated powers that the People delegated to it. It is the firm, indispensable foundation of the American Republic not some sort of mutating or "evolving" set of rules, as the accolytes of "living constitution theory" ever insist it is.
Do not expect to hear anything sensible or rational out of atheist ideologues of whatever description. (JMHO FWIW)
Case in point: Obama evidently believes that one can use "rhetoric" to literally transform "reality." If enough people believe a statement, it then becomes literally "true" somehow, in the objective world.
Such an expectation can only be associated with black magic, or sorcery. It involves a rejection, no only of God, but of the natural world itself the world of "objective reality" of daily, living human experience and the testimony of history going back to the dawn of recorded time....
Thank you ever so much, thouworm, for the informative links to some of Obama's recent double-speak fulminations....
You are spot on in every way. What a post!
Amazing, to say the least.
Watch for Obama to portray himself as very magnanimous about Romney's Mormonism, to even more play act the really nice, wonderful Christian. All the while he will be knowingly playing simple, trusting Americans, while the observant will be aware of the fact that this "Christianity" has suddenly taken wings and become highlighted at this election time when he thinks he will be running against a Mormon. Anyone can say all the right words to portray themselves as a wonderful Christian, when they are anything but, especially an amoral, con man.
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.
Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
Also, remember that Satan was an angel of God’s. He was created a son of God. If Jesus, in the mind of Satan’s followers, is only a son of God, then Jesus, in their minds, doesn’t have any power that Satan doesn’t have. In the Satanist’s mind there is an ongoing battle between Jesus and Satan, that Satan will eventually win. That is why any cult or person that doesn’t recognize that Jesus is God come in the flesh, but thinks that He is merely an angel or a son of God, but not The Son of God, actually is a kin to and plays into Satan worship.
I could have added to the list of anti-constitutional offenses committed by the Obama Executive Branch against the Constitution of the United States, and the nefarious effects they have had so far.
I feel pretty sure you could add to this list yourself, from your own personal observations and experiences....
QUESTION: Does any rational (sane) person actually want another four years of this guy, who will likely act in his second term with virtually total impunity, to the purpose/in the process of destroying the Life, Liberty, and Property of the American People? Whose policies, if implemented, would have virtually incalculable fiscal/financial impacts on generations of Americans yet to be born?
I dunno. It seems that some of us today are so deep down into the weeds that we are missing the Big Picture.
To me, the "Big Picture" involves the removal of a criminal enterprise from the Oval Office. As I have said before, this is Job One.
What I don't understand at all is why people are seemingly so belayed by political and doctrinal arguments that the Big Picture has entirely collapsed for them. It seems nowadays, too many people succumb either to the magic of doctrinal rhetoric, or to the magic of Sorcerer's Tricks of misdirection and fundamental falsification of the natural order as ordained by God.
Given this basic befuddlement of the People, Obama imagines he has good, solid ground for the prosecution of his doctrinal strategy of class division and racial warfare. In terms of personal mentality and basic outlook, he's a "divide-and-conquer" kind of guy.... Or so I gather.
Hey, he's a by-the-book, Chicago-style, hard-left Progressive i.e., a self-declared "community organizer," by talent, training, and ambition.
In the end, the only thing such critturs understand is Power. And they don't care by what means they secure and then defend it, assuming they can get it into their hands in the first place: "The End justifies the Means." Which is a license to LIE.
Islam actually celebrates this doctrine. It is called kaffiyah. The doctrine states that it is absolutely always correct to lie to a person outside of your community (Islam), if it serves the ends of your community (Islam). And of course, your community is organized "under Allah."
In short, it is entirely permissible to lie with impunity to any "infidel," defined as any person who does not share your particular worldview.
* * * * * * *
It's been a very discouraging electoral season so far. Hopefully, things will get better from here. In what way, I do not know at the present time. So I pray....
In closing, I have a question for my dear brothers and sisters in Christ: What IF God may have actually chosen to use Romney as his principal "tool" in the present fight?
Is that question entirely idle, or dead on arrival?
Thank you once more, dear unkus, for your kind words of understanding and support.
Your grasp of the whole situation and those involves is exactly right. I think what you say here sums up the Evil One called 0bama and what he’s doing:
Islam actually celebrates this doctrine. It is called kaffiyah. The doctrine states that it is absolutely always correct to lie to a person outside of your community (Islam), if it serves the ends of your community (Islam). And of course, your community is organized “under Allah.”
That in no way says that Jesus had any doubts about anything.
Someone could not want to go through the most excruciating form of execution known to man. That doesn't mean He had doubts about it. Just that He wasn't looking forward to it.
That could just as easily mean that Jesus did not relish pain and abuse. In other words, He was sane. That's a crucial point, by the way.
There is absolutely no reason to conclude there were doubts.
betty: . It seems nowadays, too many people succumb either to the magic of doctrinal rhetoric, or to the magic of Sorcerer’s Tricks of misdirection and fundamental falsification of the natural order as ordained by God.
Spirited: Why do people succumb to Sorcerer’s Tricks? The success of dark magic relies on a number of destructive forces.
First off, there must be within the intended victim a weakness, an unfulfilled desire or longing for ‘something’ that renders him/her vulnerable to seduction. Second, there must be within the intended victim a willingness to be seduced, an openness to being overcome, a readyness to view the world darkly through the lens of the sorcerer.
And finally, it would not be possible for sorcerer’s magic to seduce if seeds of discontent were not within each and every one of us.
When Dr. Jekyl’s magic elixir was applied to his own discontent he was transformed into Mr. Hyde, Karl Marx into a demonically-occluded monster, Nietzsche into a madman, and Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin into murderers. When applied to certain segments of our population the transformation is into a mindless mob screaming for the death of George Zimmerman.
It is by means of these "seeds of discontent" that the sorcerer leads us into self-deception, self-delusion, and finally spiritual death.
So of course the sorcerer has every incentive to sow as many seeds of discontent as he possibly can. The rest is all (rhetorical) smoke and mirrors....
But it continues to astonish me that so many Americans today seem to be falling for the sorcerer's "tricks."
Thank you so very much for your outstanding insights, dear spirited irish!
2 Timothy 3
1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!
Moreover, the following observations you made cannot be emphasized often enough.
In short, I believe down to my bones that this man is effectively running a criminal enterprise out of the White House.
IMHO this national election this year is all about removing the criminal conspiracy from the Executive Branch/administrative departments of our federal government. To me, this is Job One.
Ultimately, it's all about the defense of the Constitution of the United States of America.
America's immune system is overwhelmed by a virulent pathogen that the body politic 1) has never seen before, 2) has been late in diagnosing, 3) has underestimated in its degree of lethalness, and 4) is near paralyzed to remedy. Only by the grace and mercy of our Lord will this patient survive and begin to heal--- beginning, but by no means ending, with success at the ballot box.
Before America's immune system was set upon by the pathological Obama Adm, it had already been compromised by a spiritual disorder that prevented the body politic a healthy defense against the demonically-induced mass trance known as the Obama campaign of 2008. This disorder will not be cured by a Romney victory. A spiritual disorder requires a spiritual remedy.
BTW, this was just plain brilliant:
Case in point: Obama evidently believes that one can use "rhetoric" to literally transform "reality." If enough people believe a statement, it then becomes literally "true" somehow, in the objective world.
Such an expectation can only be associated with black magic, or sorcery. It involves a rejection, not only of God, but of the natural world itself the world of "objective reality" of daily, living human experience and the testimony of history going back to the dawn of recorded time....
I would only add that not only do Obama and Oligarchy believe and expectIT (occult "thinking" rhetoric), they (more specifically, their predecessors) have deliberately and successfully used IT to undermine critical thinking in every institution in America, including the Church. Above all, the Church must be subsumed and the Christian worldview, condemned as socially aberrant and scientifically antiquated.
A god created in their own image is the only god who will satisfy, and a Jesus who can be "managed" is the only Jesus who will be tolerated. Bible-believing Christians are stubborn obstacles to their future plans --- first the antichrists mock; then they marginalize, divide or absorb; lastly, they persecute and seek to eliminate.
Finally (and also overdue), is an acknowledgment of heartfelt appreciation for the posts between you and Alamo-Girl. I've taken to reading them periodically as a spiritual and intellectual feast. I regret that I only discovered them recently. The scripture "iron sharpeneth iron," never fails to come to mind.
Thanks again for such a thoughtful reply.
They have fabricated a "god" subordinate to - and authenticating no less - their many carnal desires.
Truly, the following passage describes just such a world:
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. - 2 Timothy 3:1-5
Oh so very true, dear thouworm! I couldn't agree with you more. I touched on this problem in a more recent post, to which I pinged you....
I agree with you that "This disorder will not be cured by a Romney victory." A Romney victory would only buy us time. In comparison, an Obama victory would be the death knell of America as we know it.
Where is the "saving remnant?" Will they show up on November 6th?
If they don't, then I will draw the conclusion that God has forsaken America. For He works in the world through souls. If souls are "disordered," they cannot "help" restore the order ordained by God as the truth of His Creation. And the America we know and love will almost assuredly die in consequence....
Thank you ever so much for your splendid essay/post I concur on every point you raised. And thank you also for your very kind words of support for my dearest sister in Christ, Alamo-Girl, and me.
Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!
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