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WAS IT REALLY 2D MURDER?
boblonsberry.com ^ | 04/12/12 | Bob Lonsberry

Posted on 04/12/2012 6:43:08 AM PDT by shortstop

George Zimmerman is guilty.

Of something.

But I’m not sure it’s second-degree murder.

Unless there is some bit of evidence we don’t know about, unless there is some smoking gun out there, there is nothing in the Florida statute on second-degree murder that sounds like what happened that night.

The special prosecutor got to strut for the cameras last night, but if she can’t deliver the goods, and there is an acquittal, there is going to be hell to pay – and riot police are probably going to get called out.

In a case that has turned out to be more about race politics than the events on the sidewalk of a Florida subdivision, you wonder what last night’s announcement was really about. Was it mollification? Was it the considered opinion of a veteran prosecutor? Was it the first step in a political lynching?

Time will tell.

But here’s what the law book says.

In Florida, there are two ways a person can be guilty of second-degree murder.

In the first, someone has to be killed by someone showing “a depraved mind.” There must also be the perpetration of an act “imminently dangerous to another.” If those two factors exist, without premeditation, in Florida, that’s second-degree murder.

In the second, someone has to be killed by someone who is committing another felony crime. That list of specified felony crimes runs from arson and kidnapping to aircraft piracy and aggravated stalking. But none of the specified crimes – including terrorism – is anything like what George Zimmerman did that night. Specifically, he has not been accused of any other felony crime, so he could not be charged under this part of Florida’s second-degree murder law.

Which gets back to the first part.

Did George Zimmerman commit an act “imminently dangerous to another” and did he do so with “a depraved mind.”

It is clear that shooting a gun at someone is an act that is “imminently dangerous.” But did George Zimmerman fire the gun with “a depraved mind?”

That’s harder to say, and maybe impossible to prove.

Was it “depraved” for a Neighborhood Watch guy to follow a young man down the street? Unwise and ultimately tragic, yes, but depraved?

Not in most dictionaries.

And then there is the aspect of self-defense. If George Zimmerman makes the argument that he was repelling an attack he thought endangered his life or limb, the whole situation changes. The prosecution would have to not only show that George Zimmerman was not in danger, and that no reasonable person would consider themselves endangered in that situation, but that he had a depraved mind.

Unless there’s evidence that we don’t know about, that goes to Zimmerman’s state of mind, that’s a very high standard for the prosecution to meet.

That phrase “beyond a reasonable doubt” is a purposefully difficult level of evidence.

In this case, we only have one version of events – George Zimmerman’s. We can’t presume he is being truthful, but the prosecution will have to affirmatively prove that he is being untruthful. And that will be hard, largely because Trayvon Martin is not here to tell his side of the story.

According to press accounts, a witness verifies Zimmerman’s claim that Trayvon was on top of him hitting him. The enhanced video from the police station shows an injury on the back of his head.

Those things, though not conclusive, are supportive of George Zimmerman’s version of events.

And in the absence of another theory, and evidence to support that theory, you’re not getting to “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

There are practical aspects of trying this charge that will be difficult and disruptive.

How, for example, do you seat a jury?

And what will the racial makeup of that jury be and will that ratio be satisfactory to the people and activists who have been shouting for justice? In the blood lust that is masquerading as justice, how does a trial on this charge lead to anything but chaos?

If George Zimmerman is acquitted, as there seems to be a fair chance he will be, is there a possibility of racial upset or riot? It’s happened before, more than once.

Have we just found this generation’s OJ trial? Have we just found this generation’s Rodney King?

I will trust that this prosecution is not political. But I will have my doubts.

Don’t get me wrong.

It’s George Zimmerman’s fault that Trayvon Martin is dead. If Zimmerman had stayed home or in his vehicle, none of this would have happened.

There is clearly reckless endangerment here, and maybe there is some species of criminally negligent homicide or maybe even a manslaughter. But murder, that’s unlikely, and even less likely of being proven.

So we got headlines last night.

And a show trial sometime down the road.

But after that we may have uncorked hell.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: florida; travon; zimmerman
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To: pgkdan

[[It’s George Zimmerman’s fault that Trayvon Martin is dead. If Zimmerman had stayed home or in his vehicle, none of this would have happened.

The stupidity exhibited in this statement is enough to take one’s breath away.]]

It most absolutely is beyond stupid- astonishingly stupid infact- I guess, according to the writer, that white folks should just stay home so that nothign bad ever happens with aq black person outside the home? Brilliant!

The ONLY thing that would have resulted in Trayvon Martin being alive today was IF Trayvon simply walked on home and did NOT punch geroge zimmerman in the face, breakign his now, then slam zimmerman’s head agaisnt hte ground in attempt to murder him


101 posted on 04/12/2012 10:47:41 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Arm_Bears
Actually, if Zimmerman continued to look for Martin (there is no evidence that he returned to his truck) and confronted him showing the pistol on his belt then SYG covers Martin. He would have had every right to fight the stranger with the gun in the night.

Either one could have happened -- we don't know -- and that's the point.

102 posted on 04/12/2012 10:49:26 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: skeeter
"I found her comment that she was ‘seeking justice for Trayvon’ rather than seeking justice, period, interesting."

"good evening, everyone. i'm angela corey, the special prosecutor for the trayvon martin case . just moments ago we spoke on the phone with sybrina fulton and tracey martin. we told them weeks ago that we would get answers for their questions no matter where the quest led us. and it is the search for justice for trayvon that has brought us to this moment. the team here with me has worked tirelessly looking for answers in trayvon martin's death."

"When we charge a person with a crime, we are equally committed to justice on their behalf as we are on our victim's behalf. so we're here to do that on behalf of our victim, trayvon martin, and on behalf of the person responsible for his death, george zimmerman." http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/04/11/angela.corey.speech.pdf

103 posted on 04/12/2012 10:50:48 AM PDT by anglian
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To: skeeter
"I found her comment that she was ‘seeking justice for Trayvon’ rather than seeking justice, period, interesting."

Clearly a show for the Martins and the race baiters. I guess we'll have to wait and see why.

104 posted on 04/12/2012 10:51:29 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: vaudine
That person following the watchman with plans to take him down is stalking.

_______________________________

You started your post talking about the "facts" presented so far.....please tell me where the "fact" of Martin following Zimmerman with plans to take him down was presented and by whom.

105 posted on 04/12/2012 10:54:30 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: CottShop
I don't know if you misunderstood my post or if you agree or disagree with it Zimmerman,I suppose,could have acted unreasonably and,as a result,the kid could reasonably have feared for his safety.That is,Zimmerman may have had a "Rambo" kind of mentality which would cause a reasonable person to be fearful.Or the reverse could be true,Zimmerman acting reasonably and a punk kid acting like a punk kid.

I'm not 100% certain of who is,in *fact*,responsible but at this point my hunch is that Zimmerman was justified.

106 posted on 04/12/2012 11:10:18 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Jimmy Carter Is No Longer The Worst President To Have Served In My Lifetime.)
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To: IMR 4350
"There was never any intention of finding the cops guilty, and the left used it as a excuse for race riots.

Doing the same thing here."

IMHO, there's a distinct difference. During the R King episode there wasn't all that much of a support group for the cops. With Zimmerman/Martin there has been much more side choosing along racial lines.

107 posted on 04/12/2012 11:11:54 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: Wizdum
"I still believe it will reduced Man 1, time served, probation"

That scenario doesn't quite square with this assessment of Florida's 10/20/Life Law. The way I'm reading it, any conviction will require 25 years at a minimum. Unless the prosecution has something good, I can't see a jury convicting him.

108 posted on 04/12/2012 11:25:19 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: wtc911

The PF9 pistol and it’s sounds that might be heard in background on tape of Z’s call to operator. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7R8YBayEzs


109 posted on 04/12/2012 12:04:18 PM PDT by anglian
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To: anglian
Re: the second part of her statement - does the AG consider that, once the facts are discovered Trayvon, not Zimmerman, will have been responsible for his own death?

If it is determined that Zimmerman was acting in self defense that will certainly have been the case.

110 posted on 04/12/2012 12:05:50 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: shortstop
Don’t get me wrong.

It’s George Zimmerman’s fault that Trayvon Martin is dead. If Zimmerman had stayed home or in his vehicle, none of this would have happened.

There is clearly reckless endangerment here, and maybe there is some species of criminally negligent homicide or maybe even a manslaughter. . . . . . .

_________________________________________________________

IT IS NOT GEORGE ZIMMERMANS FAULT that Travon Martin is dead, it is Travon Martin and his parents fault. Who lets their 17 year old child out at 1 or 2 oclock in the morning when he is suspended for having drugs? If his parents had done even the minimum in responsible child rearing Travon would be alive and well learning how to not get in trouble and how to stay off drugs.

IT IS NOT GEORGE ZIMMERMANS FAULT that Travon Martin is dead, but a lot of blame can go to the same black community that is raising Hell about his death. The black community thinks they have to be different, they glorify Hip-Hop, they glorify black on white crime, they glorify most crime if it is against whitey.

IT IS NOT GEORGE ZIMMERMANS FAULT that Travon Martin is dead, more than anybody else it is Travon Martins fault for trying to get even with a person who was watching him to see if he was up to no good. If Martin had not found Zimmermans gun and tried to take it away He would still be alive bragging about how he beat up this “old white guy”. If Zimmerman had not had his gun with him he could indeed be dead.

Charge Martin, his parents and the Black community.

Zimmermans treatment is an outrage. He was a pleasant little guy trying to keep his community safe. He was trying to protect his neighbors, he wasn't out to hurt anybody just get them caught. We need more Zimmermans, we don't need anymore Travon Martins.

111 posted on 04/12/2012 12:06:02 PM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: anglian

Trayvon Martin 911 Calls - 8 Total Compilation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO0oyDFS4Jo


112 posted on 04/12/2012 12:08:02 PM PDT by anglian
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To: JAKraig
Zimmermans treatment is an outrage. He was a pleasant little guy trying to keep his community safe. He was trying to protect his neighbors, he wasn't out to hurt anybody just get them caught. We need more Zimmermans, we don't need anymore Travon Martins.

One day in jail is too much. Zimmerman is locked up; the sewage that put a bounty on his head is running loose...

113 posted on 04/12/2012 12:09:35 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: moehoward
With R King case the news media created the impression the divide was along party lines.

Dems supporting King, repubs supporting cops because they were racist.

114 posted on 04/12/2012 12:12:06 PM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: anglian
Thank you for posting this link. There isn't anything even inherently racist in the 911 call. To that end, it proves how imaginative NBC was in editing that call to paint Zimmerman as a racist on a mission. When all is said and done, I hope Zimmerman sues NBC, Sharpton, Jackson, the mysterious editor, the board of directors of NBC, the sponsors on the night they played the edited tape. Anyone and everyone he can go after, I hope he does. I want to see him sink the network.
115 posted on 04/12/2012 12:23:38 PM PDT by liberalh8ter (If Barack has a memory like a steel trap, why can't he remember what the Constitution says?)
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To: JAKraig

It wasn’t 1 or 2 in the morning, rather a little past 7 pm.


116 posted on 04/12/2012 12:30:25 PM PDT by ironman
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To: wtc911

What do you mean by “showing the pistol on his belt”?


117 posted on 04/12/2012 12:36:54 PM PDT by ironman
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To: JAKraig
it is Travon Martin and his parents fault. Who lets their 17 year old child out at 1 or 2 oclock in the morning when he is suspended for having drugs?

_____________________________________

How could possibly have an informed, unbiased opinion about this and not even know the most basic facts? Zimmerman followed martin a little after seven...not one or two in the morning.

118 posted on 04/12/2012 12:38:53 PM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: wtc911
ironman & wtc911,

Sorry, my bad. I read some one elses comments that it was 1 or 2 on the morning, maybe that is when Zimmerman was released.

119 posted on 04/12/2012 1:28:18 PM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: lacrew
All of this is driven by politics. IMO she is seeking Murder2 to placate the mob and cool down the rhetoric. This buys her time and when the issue is decided by a judge or jury, she can feign being upset with either an acquittal or manslaughter.

If she had asked for manslaughter, the race baiters and MSM would have gone batsh*t.

120 posted on 04/12/2012 1:41:45 PM PDT by kabar
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To: shortstop

His crime is “Self defense but white.”


121 posted on 04/12/2012 1:53:13 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: wtc911
I didn't say those were the facts, just IF those were the facts.

vaudine

122 posted on 04/12/2012 4:44:22 PM PDT by vaudine
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To: Gay State Conservative

[[the kid could reasonably have feared for his safety.]]

George didn’t threaten the kid so the kid had no reason to fear for his safety- plus geoege was on his way back to his truck when the kid attacked him- doesn’t sound liek someone who was afraid for his own life

[[That is,Zimmerman may have had a “Rambo” kind of mentality which would cause a reasonable person to be fearful]]

There was absolutely NO evidence of that on the taped conversations- none- we never hear zimmerman issuing htreats to trayvon and we infact only hear george trying to keep sight of trayvon- suggeswting that trayvon was far enough away that he could have easily eluded george had he wanted to- and again- trayvon did NOT have the right to criminally assault george simpyl because george was following him- it is NOT agaisnt hte law to follow someone nor to even confront htem and question them- it IS however agaisnt hte law for someone to criminally assault someone

We also know from martin’s phone calls to his girlfriend that she peladed with him NOT to confront zimmerman to just leave hte situation alone- but martin didn’t listen to her- He WANTED a onfrontation to occure, and HE initiated hte confrontation and the criminal act of assault


123 posted on 04/12/2012 7:34:16 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop
We also know from martin’s phone calls to his girlfriend that she pleaded with him NOT to confront zimmerman to just leave the situation alone- but martin didn’t listen to her,,,

First of all I wasn't saying that Zimmerman did this or that...I was saying *if* he did a certain thing,then...

And I forgot all about the call with the girlfriend.One thing we can all count on is that regardless of what she might have said so far *everything* she says in court will paint Zimmerman as the aggressor...even if it means she perjures herself.You can bet you bottom dollar on *that*.

124 posted on 04/12/2012 7:43:35 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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