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WAS IT REALLY 2D MURDER?
boblonsberry.com ^ | 04/12/12 | Bob Lonsberry

Posted on 04/12/2012 6:43:08 AM PDT by shortstop

George Zimmerman is guilty.

Of something.

But I’m not sure it’s second-degree murder.

Unless there is some bit of evidence we don’t know about, unless there is some smoking gun out there, there is nothing in the Florida statute on second-degree murder that sounds like what happened that night.

The special prosecutor got to strut for the cameras last night, but if she can’t deliver the goods, and there is an acquittal, there is going to be hell to pay – and riot police are probably going to get called out.

In a case that has turned out to be more about race politics than the events on the sidewalk of a Florida subdivision, you wonder what last night’s announcement was really about. Was it mollification? Was it the considered opinion of a veteran prosecutor? Was it the first step in a political lynching?

Time will tell.

But here’s what the law book says.

In Florida, there are two ways a person can be guilty of second-degree murder.

In the first, someone has to be killed by someone showing “a depraved mind.” There must also be the perpetration of an act “imminently dangerous to another.” If those two factors exist, without premeditation, in Florida, that’s second-degree murder.

In the second, someone has to be killed by someone who is committing another felony crime. That list of specified felony crimes runs from arson and kidnapping to aircraft piracy and aggravated stalking. But none of the specified crimes – including terrorism – is anything like what George Zimmerman did that night. Specifically, he has not been accused of any other felony crime, so he could not be charged under this part of Florida’s second-degree murder law.

Which gets back to the first part.

Did George Zimmerman commit an act “imminently dangerous to another” and did he do so with “a depraved mind.”

It is clear that shooting a gun at someone is an act that is “imminently dangerous.” But did George Zimmerman fire the gun with “a depraved mind?”

That’s harder to say, and maybe impossible to prove.

Was it “depraved” for a Neighborhood Watch guy to follow a young man down the street? Unwise and ultimately tragic, yes, but depraved?

Not in most dictionaries.

And then there is the aspect of self-defense. If George Zimmerman makes the argument that he was repelling an attack he thought endangered his life or limb, the whole situation changes. The prosecution would have to not only show that George Zimmerman was not in danger, and that no reasonable person would consider themselves endangered in that situation, but that he had a depraved mind.

Unless there’s evidence that we don’t know about, that goes to Zimmerman’s state of mind, that’s a very high standard for the prosecution to meet.

That phrase “beyond a reasonable doubt” is a purposefully difficult level of evidence.

In this case, we only have one version of events – George Zimmerman’s. We can’t presume he is being truthful, but the prosecution will have to affirmatively prove that he is being untruthful. And that will be hard, largely because Trayvon Martin is not here to tell his side of the story.

According to press accounts, a witness verifies Zimmerman’s claim that Trayvon was on top of him hitting him. The enhanced video from the police station shows an injury on the back of his head.

Those things, though not conclusive, are supportive of George Zimmerman’s version of events.

And in the absence of another theory, and evidence to support that theory, you’re not getting to “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

There are practical aspects of trying this charge that will be difficult and disruptive.

How, for example, do you seat a jury?

And what will the racial makeup of that jury be and will that ratio be satisfactory to the people and activists who have been shouting for justice? In the blood lust that is masquerading as justice, how does a trial on this charge lead to anything but chaos?

If George Zimmerman is acquitted, as there seems to be a fair chance he will be, is there a possibility of racial upset or riot? It’s happened before, more than once.

Have we just found this generation’s OJ trial? Have we just found this generation’s Rodney King?

I will trust that this prosecution is not political. But I will have my doubts.

Don’t get me wrong.

It’s George Zimmerman’s fault that Trayvon Martin is dead. If Zimmerman had stayed home or in his vehicle, none of this would have happened.

There is clearly reckless endangerment here, and maybe there is some species of criminally negligent homicide or maybe even a manslaughter. But murder, that’s unlikely, and even less likely of being proven.

So we got headlines last night.

And a show trial sometime down the road.

But after that we may have uncorked hell.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: florida; travon; zimmerman
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To: Third Person

One does not have the right to defend oneself against one of Holder’s People, period, my FRiend.Without surrering the consequences.


51 posted on 04/12/2012 7:36:12 AM PDT by sport
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To: shortstop
I want to know what the prosecution knows that we don't know. A lot of information isn't leaked to the public and won't be.

Right now, I don't see 2nd degree. Possibly manslaughter, but not 2nd degree.

52 posted on 04/12/2012 7:36:50 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (Time for brokered convention)
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To: shortstop

This is not going to end up well for anybody.

I am now convinced this administration was looking for a case similar to this (although it is not as good as they would like but they will use it anyway).

It will be impossible for George Zimmerman to get a fair trail when the President of the US and the top law enforcement officer all but states he is guilty. Add to that the threat of riots in the streets if he is not found guilty and what do you have.

I also believe that the best laid plans do not always go as planned and that unintended consequences is a b****

It reminds me of that old saying, be careful for what you wish for, you may get it.


53 posted on 04/12/2012 7:40:11 AM PDT by CIB-173RDABN (California does not have a money problem it has a spending problem)
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To: Coldwater Creek
IIRC she commented that her office had been working against the Stand Your Ground Law so she is definitely NOT unbiased. She has a personal interest in the outcome and perhaps doesn't care if she destroys an innocent man.

I was only listening so I didn't see her SMIRK.

I hope that the facts of what actually happened come out, and if she was pursuing this for career enhancement and a political goal, I hope it blows up in her smirking face.

54 posted on 04/12/2012 7:40:53 AM PDT by Sal (JournOlisters are all PIMPS! Nothing but little PIMPS!)
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To: Darren McCarty

Will either be 3rd, aquital, or hung jury.


55 posted on 04/12/2012 7:43:12 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: shortstop

Either there will be a reverse OJ jury (convict regardless of law and evidence) and a conviction, or an acquittal and riots with cities burning. Either way, Obama’s DOJ will push to have it close to November...


56 posted on 04/12/2012 7:44:10 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: shortstop

My take - the prosecutor will try to say that carrying a gun, while part of the neighborhood watch, was the reckless act.

I don’t think she’ll get much mileage though...its not like Zimmerman was on ‘patrol’...was just going about his daily business when he saw Martin...with a legally owned gun.

Or maybe the act of following Martin was the act...again not much mileage. Nothing wrong with following somebody around on private property, in order to tell the police where to go.


57 posted on 04/12/2012 7:44:21 AM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: shortstop

With the Zimmerman family, spouting details to the press at every turn, they invite interpretations by the prosecution and the press, that could lead to a conviction.

If they had any sense they would keep their mouths shut, at least until the trial is over.


58 posted on 04/12/2012 7:45:53 AM PDT by G Larry (We are NOT obliged to carry the snake in our pocket and then dismiss the bites as natural behavior.)
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To: sport

“One does not have the right to defend oneself against one of Holder’s People, period, my FRiend.Without suffering the consequences.”

####

Yes, that is the REAL message the black racists and their self-hating, white progressive allies, such as the condescending POS Bloomberg in NYC, want to send to the rest of us.


59 posted on 04/12/2012 7:46:07 AM PDT by EyeGuy (2012: When the Levee Breaks)
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To: Mr. K

“THIS IDIOT PROSECUTOR SHOULD BE DISBARRED”
I thought the same, when I first read about her decision.
I thought about it some more and have concluded the following.

She is simply buying time. She is well aware that they will never get a 2nd degree murder conviction. They now have 6-9 months to let the angry mob cool off. Any trial will be after the election so the left will have less incentive to throw more gasoline on the fire.
During this delay the defense and others will reveal more and more information. We will see the police,eye witness and par-medics reports; which will leave no reasonable doubt that Mr. Zimmerman was attacked and injured.
Additional negative information about the alleged victim will be revealed. We will learn more about his drug use, the incident where they found apparently stolen jewelry on him will lead to information showing he was at least a petty theft and possibly a burglar. His thug/gangsta wannabe persona will emerge. Possible previous assaultive behavior. Who knows.
I read elsewhere that before the murder trial there will be a hearing on whether this was self defense; where the standard will be preponderance of evidence. By the end of that hearing the public will have seen more than enough evidence for the large majority to realize that this was ultimately self defense.
Given the pathological anger hatred and denial of reality on the one side; it is hard to predict how they will react to having the true facts exposed.
My fear is, the desire on the part of white and black leftest activists, to see major cities burned and loot is so great; no amount facts or evidence will make a difference.
You can only hope that by then, there is a Republican in the White House to suppress those riots and protect the truly innocent.


60 posted on 04/12/2012 7:46:16 AM PDT by Jonah Johansen ("Coming soon to a neighborhood near you")
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To: Don Corleone
They must produce WITNESSES...WITNESSES and more credible WITNESSES. That is going to be very very hard to do.

Watch this.

Key & Peele: Pegasus Sighting

61 posted on 04/12/2012 7:47:56 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: shortstop

“George Zimmerman is guilty.
It’s George Zimmerman’s fault that Trayvon Martin is dead. If Zimmerman had stayed home or in his vehicle, none of this would have happened.”

Guilty of not staying home!


62 posted on 04/12/2012 7:50:23 AM PDT by running_dog_lackey
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To: shortstop

By the time this business is over, neighborhood watch groups will be a thing of the past. Residents will be expected to just shut their mouths when they observe unknown persons in their neighborhoods at night.


63 posted on 04/12/2012 7:50:31 AM PDT by mtrott
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To: shortstop

The prosecutor should remember Nifong. All the lefty race haters in North Carolina could not save him from justice in his political show trial against the Lax players.

This lady had best hope she was not overheard playing the Nifong leading up to this arrest and show trial.


64 posted on 04/12/2012 7:52:28 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: All

The smirk on the prosecutor’s face was because she had followed her orders and passed the buck to a jury.

She will now be set for life ala marsha clark:

she will have courttv interviews and her own show.

she will be writing a book (nobody will read)

she will have that shot at a judgship prefereably appelate since merit retention is defacto appointment for life incumbant protection.

she has the votes of the race baiters if she wants to run for office.

she better have a really clear cut smoking video with witnesses or her fantasies go up in smoke.


65 posted on 04/12/2012 7:53:13 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: shortstop
Don’t get me wrong. It’s George Zimmerman’s fault that Trayvon Martin is dead. If Zimmerman had stayed home or in his vehicle, none of this would have happened.

This guy is an idiot. Placing the entire blame on Zimmerman is pure sophistry. If Martin had gone home instead of confronting and possibly attacking Zimmerman, then he would still be alive. Anyone who looks at the layout of the development will see that Zimmerman was not blocking Martin's path to his father's residence.

66 posted on 04/12/2012 7:54:43 AM PDT by kabar
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To: PapaBear3625
...a middle-class defendant who's family would be financially ruined by legal fees if the case went to trial, and whose life would be effectively over if convicted.

In civil suits there is a "loser pays" provision in some states, to minimize frivolous actions. The same should apply to criminal cases, so the cost of defense doesn't break the innocent.

Rethinking that principle, though, OJ's defense costs would have had to be paid by the state when he was acquitted. I don't like that idea so much.

67 posted on 04/12/2012 7:55:05 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: FewsOrange
If Trayvon Martin was standing his ground against an armed stalker, I’d say the blame is squarely on the armed stalker.

Attacking from behind is not the same as standing your ground.

68 posted on 04/12/2012 7:57:57 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: lacrew

she has to have the trial moved to a blue “gun control freak” zone of florida where she will have more democrats in the jury pool.

There is no longer any chance for a fair trial in miami (southern florida) orlando sanford or even jacksonville


69 posted on 04/12/2012 7:58:15 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: SaraJohnson

“All the lefty race haters in North Carolina could not save him from justice in his political show trial against the Lax players.”

#####

Well, in the end he was just a white guy.

Nifong walks if he’s black.

Just like the racist, lying criminal whore that precipitated the entire fiasco.


70 posted on 04/12/2012 7:58:42 AM PDT by EyeGuy (2012: When the Levee Breaks)
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To: shortstop

It is amazing to see the hate and anger from the black community and the tender handling from the police Depts.

Poor zimmerman is up to his neck in planned actions by people who seem escape the view of the “Law enforcement” organizations and are allowed put up Alive or dead wanted ads. Where is our Hero Eric Holder ??????


71 posted on 04/12/2012 8:02:09 AM PDT by chatham
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To: running_dog_lackey
Guilty of not staying home!

I predict that it will be the media will start the meme that the gun is to blame and gun laws like stand your ground kill minorities. if only Zimmerman did not have a gun Trevon would still be alive - Zimmerman thought he was tough because of the gun - it was a tragic accident that could have been avoided and Trevon would still be alive if only there was not killer gun - blah blah blah.. The reason for the orchestrated national misreporting is not about Martin or Zimmerman, but about guns. E.Holder is working his brainwashing strategy. This will turn out to be about the guns faster than you can say furious. As a bonus a crisis that will caused and we all know the administration will not going to let one of those go to waste. Perhaps their will be suggestions of racial reparations and that theme will be the talk in congress and on the radio for a month. The administration showing their restrain and moderation will not enact reparations, but only regulate guns (for racial protection because more black men are shot than whites) or some such tactic of usurpation.

72 posted on 04/12/2012 8:04:09 AM PDT by DaveyB (Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. -John Adams)
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To: lacrew
My take - the prosecutor will try to say that carrying a gun, while part of the neighborhood watch, was the reckless act.

Zimmerman was returning to the development after running an errand. He was not on duty as part of the Neighborhood Watch. He had a permit to carry a concealed weapon. What is reckless about that?

If Martin believed he was being followed, he should have gone home. I have not seen or heard any indication that Zimmerman was blocking Martin's path home.

73 posted on 04/12/2012 8:04:22 AM PDT by kabar
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To: EyeGuy

How can you claim “utter ignorance” when your own comment is ignorant of the fact he wasn’t committing a crime. Zimmerman never reported a crime being committed on the 911 call... I’m not defending Trayvon he was a punk, but just saying...


74 posted on 04/12/2012 8:07:52 AM PDT by xenob
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To: DaveyB
their = there

I' was public schooled and that is my defense. I apologize to the grammar patrol and ask mercy.

75 posted on 04/12/2012 8:08:51 AM PDT by DaveyB (Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. -John Adams)
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To: shortstop

Acquittal: Riots.
Charges dismissed: Riots.
Plea bargain on a lesser charge: Riots.
Hung jury: Riots.
Conviction: Celebrations that will look just like riots.


76 posted on 04/12/2012 8:12:27 AM PDT by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: kabar
If Martin believed he was being followed, he should have gone home.

I understand that on at least on occasion, Martin was within 50 feet of his parent's home. Why didn't he just go there? That would have ended the whole thing.

77 posted on 04/12/2012 8:15:22 AM PDT by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: JimRed

it makes toal sense if you factor in the fact it will eliminate showboating prosecutors (see oj prosecution team, nifong etc).

there has to be an end to the “arrest them all and let the judge sort it out” mentality.


78 posted on 04/12/2012 8:21:36 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: kabar

I’m not saying I agree with the prosecutor...just musing about what her angle is going to be.

She has to come up with something, and thats all I can think of, to justify Murder 2.


79 posted on 04/12/2012 8:25:21 AM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: xenob

Pounding someone’s head into the pavement isn’t a crime?

Who again is ignorant?


80 posted on 04/12/2012 8:28:32 AM PDT by EyeGuy (2012: When the Levee Breaks)
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To: Fresh Wind; kabar

>> “I understand that on at least on occasion, Martin was within 50 feet of his parent’s home. Why didn’t he just go there?” <<

.
Martin was upset that Zimmerman could identify him; he surely would not go ‘home’ giving Zimmerman an address to relay to the police.

This is just standard gang behavior: Kill all the witnesses that you can’t intimidate. He was determined to kill Zimmerman, but it didn’t work out his way.


81 posted on 04/12/2012 8:38:14 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: Fresh Wind
##Acquittal: Riots.

Charges dismissed: Riots.

Plea bargain on a lesser charge: Riots.

Hung jury: Riots.

Conviction: Celebrations that will look just like riots.##

You nailed it dead on.

82 posted on 04/12/2012 8:39:05 AM PDT by shortstop (It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful)
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To: shortstop

This was likely a deliberate over charging on the part of the prosecutor to mollify the blacks and avoid riots. They have to know there is no way they will get a conviction on 2nd degree murder. Even Manslaughter would be a real stretch. It would not suprise me if a judge throws it out.


83 posted on 04/12/2012 8:42:41 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Pecos

“I have two bets with myself. The first is that GZ will be killed in jail, probably before the trial, but definitely afterward if convicted. The second is that regardless of the verdict, there will be riots - simply because they are opportunities to loot.”

I agree.
If GZ is aquited there will be riots and looting out of anger.
If GZ is convicted there will be riots and looting to celebrate.


84 posted on 04/12/2012 8:45:06 AM PDT by servo1969
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To: shortstop

“Was it “depraved” for a Neighborhood Watch guy to follow a young man down the street?”

There is a huge amount of information about this confrontation that will not become known to the public until the trial gets underway.
Meanwhile, it is my understanding that Treyvon, the fresh-faced lad of 13, or 14 or 15 years, was strolling rather aimlessly through the backyards area of a gated community, not walking in a purposeful manner on a street or sidewalk, and thereby arousing suspicion as to his intent and purpose.
But lacking testimonial revelations through a public trial, we can only speculate, and that to little purpose.


85 posted on 04/12/2012 8:48:18 AM PDT by Elsiejay (in)
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To: shortstop

Is it possible that the jury could acquit on the murder charge, but find him guilty of manslaughter? I can’t make out what the prosecutor is doing here, but one possibility is to satisfy the race baiters between now and next November, in the expectation that this will take quite a while to resolve.

Or, if the stories we have seen are true, I would hope that Zimmerman would simply be found not guilty. But it will be hard to de-politicize this case, and much depends on what kind of folks they pick for the jury.

What a sorry mess. Black racism is being taken to new highs.


86 posted on 04/12/2012 8:50:25 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Wizdum
What it will boil down to is whether Zimmerman was perceived by Martin as an aggressor and attacked, or Martin decided to attack unprovoked. I think more of the first rather than the second.

I think it's more likely to be the second than the first but don't have enough info to be sure.In order to decide for sure (or "beyond a reasonable doubt") I'd want to know much,*much* more about *both* individuals.If,by chance,one of them has a "clean" past and the other one a "dirty" one then,IMO,it's most likely the one with the "dirty" one who's at fault.I've heard *nothing*,good *or* bad,about Zimmerman's past.I've heard a bit about the kid's past and,if everything is true and accurate (Twitter posts,school suspensions for example) it paints a picture of a gangsta thug in the making.But I can't be sure if *any* of it is true.

And BTW...it only matters if the kid *had good reason* to see Zimmerman as a threat.I think we all know that there are *millions* of kids in this country that see "threats" where none actually exist.Just listen to all those rap songs about the joys of bustin' a cap in some white pig cop.

87 posted on 04/12/2012 8:59:37 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Jimmy Carter Is No Longer The Worst President To Have Served In My Lifetime.)
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To: Verginius Rufus

“The jurors can claim to be unbiassed when selected, but once they get to the deliberations stage, what’s to stop them from ignoring the evidence presented in the trial and going by what they initially heard on TV?”

Interesting point you make.

It may be next to impossible to seat an “unbiased jury” for this case, given the attention it’s received and the racial polarization that has accompanied it.

Most whites “see the case” from a certain perspective. On the other hand, with few exceptions blacks seem to view it from 180 degrees opposite. It’s unclear right now how hispanics feel about it - one would believe they would be showing more interest in the case. Perhaps they are, but we aren’t seeing that just yet.

Even when presented with the same set of facts, white jurors vis-a-vis black jurors are going to perceive those [same] facts to mean “different truths”, and take those opposing truths into the jury room with them.

For such reasons, I’m wondering if a hung jury becomes inevitable. Whites/hispanics will probably accept the concept of “reasonable doubt” once the jury room door is closed. But I sense that blacks - even blacks who pass voir dire to gain a seat on the jury panel - will be predisposed towards conviction, and simply refuse to agree to a “not guilty” verdict, even if the evidence points in that direction.

So — a conviction may be unlikely based on the evidence we have seen; yet even in the presence of sufficient evidence favoring the defendant, an acquittal becomes all-but impossible. You can call my prediction bigoted if you wish, but that’s how I’m seeing it.

I would think that one of the first things Zimmerman’s attorney will do is request a change of venue. The obvious question would be “to where?”

But the real question is “to whom”?


88 posted on 04/12/2012 9:03:57 AM PDT by Road Glide
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To: Cicero
Is it possible that the jury could acquit on the murder charge, but find him guilty of manslaughter?

I think it depends on the specifics or the charge and/or state law.But I'm not a lawyer so perhaps a lawyer would want to weigh in on this question.

89 posted on 04/12/2012 9:04:41 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Jimmy Carter Is No Longer The Worst President To Have Served In My Lifetime.)
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To: Pecos
Also it has occurred to me that the eyewitness who saw Trayvon on top of George, beating him, might not live long enough to testify at the trial.

I agree that there are likely to be riots either way. Hopefully this will all come to a conclusion before October, but seems to be timed just right for an October trial, to take advantage of the racial outrage by the left.

90 posted on 04/12/2012 9:10:19 AM PDT by NEMDF
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To: Pecos

Another thing that is totally wrong is Zimmerman having to rot in jail waiting on the trial. Peoples’ rights are being trampled on left AND right by the left and RIGHT.


91 posted on 04/12/2012 9:14:50 AM PDT by Terry Mross
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To: pgkdan

Obviously Bob Lonsberry is comfortable with a police-state to protect his sorry butt. Since when is it “wreckless” to keep an eye on your own neighborhood? In North Philly Black Muslim groups actively patrol certain blocks. Armed I am sure since there is little in the way of police patrols in these “no-go” areas. Would Mr. Lonsberry apply the same standards there?


92 posted on 04/12/2012 9:16:22 AM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: JimRed

it makes toal sense if you factor in the fact it will eliminate showboating prosecutors (see oj prosecution team, nifong etc).

there has to be an end to the “arrest them all and let the judge sort it out” mentality.


93 posted on 04/12/2012 9:17:12 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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94 posted on 04/12/2012 9:23:15 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: FewsOrange
If Trayvon Martin was standing his ground against an armed stalker, I’d say the blame is squarely on the armed stalker.

All of the cooberated evidence made public to this point indicates GZ was not stalking and that Trayvon approached and accosted GZ.

George Zimmerman was arrested, but it will be Trayvon who is really put on trial and convicted. Trayvon's gangsta behaviour including his facebook and twitter postings, his parents' lack of discipline and control, Trayvon's assualt on GZ will become the focus of the trial.

95 posted on 04/12/2012 9:32:40 AM PDT by CMAC51
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To: skeeter
I found her comment that she was ‘seeking justice for Trayvon’ rather than seeking justice, period, interesting.

BINGO! We have a winner...

Regards,
GtG

96 posted on 04/12/2012 10:10:40 AM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: shortstop

[[George Zimmerman is guilty. Of something. But I’m not sure it’s second-degree murder.]]

Guilty of what? Defending himself while white? NOTHING George Zimmerman did was illegal- NOTHING! He had EVERY RIGHT to follow someone he thought was suspicious- Martin did NOT have ANY rgith to Criminally Attack Zimmerman Since Zimmerman did NOT initiate contact- Martin is the ON LY GUILTY PARTY i nthis case. I feel bad that ghis parents lost hteir son, but hte fact is their son was guilty of assault and attempted murder, and even told Zimmerman he was going to kill him. His parents may be unwillign to admit htese FACTS but they ARE the FACTS- PERIOD!


97 posted on 04/12/2012 10:15:31 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: shortstop
It’s George Zimmerman’s fault that Trayvon Martin is dead. If Zimmerman had stayed home or in his vehicle, none of this would have happened.

What an idiotic comment. He gives away the store here while trying to be 'balanced'. This statement suggests that just staying inside is the only action that doesn't open you to criminal charges, that simply going outside brands you as somehow complicit in any crime or event that happens around you.

That recent visitor to Baltimore would not have been sucker punched if he had stayed home, so would the author suggest that he too was at fault?

Any fault (other than Trayvon's) lives with the Martins, who should have known that letting their kid try out the thug life would not turn out well.

98 posted on 04/12/2012 10:35:53 AM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: CMAC51

“,,,it will be Trayvon who is really put on trial and convicted. Trayvon’s gangsta behaviour including his facebook and twitter postings, his parents’ lack of discipline and control, Trayvon’s assualt on GZ will become the focus of the trial.”

There have been other cases where the victims previous behavior/reputation was not admissable. The Fish shooting trial in AZ and the trial regarding an unarmed killing after a son’s Hockey game come to mind.

I agree it should come down to which side is more credible due to lack of eyewitnesses, but that doesn’t always happen.


99 posted on 04/12/2012 10:41:49 AM PDT by Bizhvywt
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To: Gay State Conservative

[[I think it’s more likely to be the second than the first but don’t have enough info to be sure.]]

By law, it should be the second- it doesn’t mastter IF martin saw zimmerman as ‘an aggressor’ Martin STILL HAD NO RIGHT TO CRIMINALLY ASSAULT Zimmerman- what the hell do peopel NOT understand about This?

[[it only matters if the kid *had good reason* to see Zimmerman as a threat]]

Beign followed is NOT ‘good reason’ to see soemoen as a risk and is NEVER justification for criminally assaulting that person- period! Trayvon commited a criminal act on Geoge- George did NOT commit ANY crimes i nthis case

Again- Martin did NOT hasve4 the right to assault and attempt to murder George Zimmerman, and Zimmerman had EVERY RIGHT to defend hismelf with deadly force when it became evident martin was terying to kill him- ANY TIME someone takes your head and bashes it agaisnt a solid object, you can reasonably assume that person intends to murder you and you have EVERY RUIGHT to protect yourself with deadly force

Martin thoguth he was a tough guy, decided agaisnt his girlfrioend’s wishes to confront george zimmerman, and made a VERY SERIOUS mkistake and paid for it with hisw life-

Again to those hwo think martin might have ‘seen zimmerman as threat’ Being followed is NEVER a reason to criminally assault someone especially with intent to murder- there is nothign more to discuss abotu that fact- Martin attacked zimerman with depraved indifference to zimmetrmans’s safety and well being- Martin apaprently made it very clear his intent to murder zimmerman- Zimmerman NEVER issued any such kind of threat toward Trayvon- Never!

IF someoen has evidence showing trayvon infact perceived zimmerman as a threat- and can show why he had reason to, present it- but hte facts of the case and witnesses and actiosn of trayvon show that htis is not the case


100 posted on 04/12/2012 10:47:34 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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