Skip to comments.Why George Zimmerman May Be Hard To Convict (Any legal people here to dissect this?)
Posted on 04/14/2012 4:15:20 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
When a man shot and killed a boy on a rainy night on the streets of Sanford Florida, because he looked suspicious and the man took it upon himself to investigate this person wearing a hoodie, the State District Attorney filed second degree murder charges against the adult, but may have inadvertently have all the charges of murder dismissed or find him not guilty.
The State of Florida Special Prosecutor Angela Corey has charged George Zimmerman for second degree murder against Trayvon Martin, which according to Floridas law may get Zimmerman life in prison. But there seems to be a catch. According to Floridas law, to prove second degree murder, the State of Florida must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
1.The victim is dead; 2.The death was caused by the criminal act of the defendant; 3.There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life. 01) Travon Martin is dead. Zimmerman claimed he killed him in self defense.
02) When the 911 operator said to not get involved, Zimmerman disobeyed the operator and confronted Martin. By not obeying the order, this can be grounds for obstruction of justice, an arrestable offense, therefore, satisfying two of three within the laws of second degree murder.
03) There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life may be the issue here.
According to Merriam Webster Online Dictionary, the word depraved says: marked by corruption or evil; especially : perverted. The State has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmermans mind was corrupt or evil or even perverted. Also what is reasonable doubt?
Reasonable doubt: Prosecution must be proven to the extent that there could be no reasonable doubt in the mind of a reasonable person that the defendant is guilty.
So is there any doubt that Zimmermans mind was corrupt, evil or perverted? The defense may say that he was concerned about the safety and well being of the community and that his intentions were to protect property and Zimmerman who gave chase, was a victim of Martin, who pounced on him, started to smash his head against the concrete and Zimmerman had no choice but to shoot Zimmerman to defend himself. If Zimmerman sticks with that story, the jury would have no choice but to say not guilty. On the other hand, the D.A. can still file manslaughter charges.
According to Florida law: Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought. Manslaughter may be voluntary or involuntary. Essentially, the difference between manslaughter and murder is that manslaughter was the result of an accident, heat of passion, or some other act in which the person does not have the mental state to commit a murder.
Involuntary manslaughter: To establish involuntary manslaughter, the prosecutor must show that the defendant acted with culpable negligence. Florida statutes define culpable negligence as a disregard for human life while engaging in wanton or reckless behavior. The state may be able to prove involuntary manslaughter by showing the defendants recklessness or lack of care when handling a dangerous instrument or weapon, or while engaging in a range of other activities that could lead to death if performed recklessly. Example: If the defendant handles a loaded gun without any knowledge of whether the gun is loaded, and he later discharges the gun into a group of people, the defendants actions likely meet the recklessness requirement for a charge of involuntary manslaughter.
Florida state laws also establish involuntary manslaughter if the prosecutor shows that the defendant used excessive force during self-defense or the defense of another person. The prosecution and defense can look at the facts and circumstances of the killing to determine whether the defendant reasonably believed that self-defense was necessary; if not necessary, the state might proceed with an involuntary manslaughter charge.
If the D.A. cannot prove that the Zimmerman was depraved, then legally, Zimmerman is a free man and under the double jeopardy rules, he cannot be tried again for the same crime
but then there is federal court.
But Stand Your Ground is tried how?
Preliminary hearing with only a preponderance of evidence required to show Zimmerman acted in self defense?
Two witnesses saw Martin on top of Zimmerman.
Isn’t that game over?
I believe in FL the judge is required to instruct on LIOs.
Zimmerman said “okay” when told to stop pursuit and headed back to his vehicle.
Martin, instead of going to the place where he was staying, doubled back to confront and punch Zimmerman.
Zimmerman had solved four burglaries two weeks earlier through his efforts.
Zimmerman said Martin was acting suspicious - not on the sidewalk? Looking in windows?
Martin was busted at school and suspended for possession of stolen property.
Martin became the aggressor and was on top of Zimmerman. The gun was exposed and Martin reached for it. That’s when he was shot.
Self defense and the witnesses back it up.
You’re suppose to WHINE!!..
Romney voters might agree with that...
That is the exact argument he is making!
Based on the fact that he was physically attacked after he had returned to his truck, it is self-defense.
The confrontation seems to have occurred because Martin thought Zimmerman "dissed" him by watching what he was doing. Depending on who is on the jury, there may be jurors who think that that justified Martin attacking Zimmerman and telling him that he was going to kill him (as Zimmerman apparently claims happened).
Problem is a Judge tossing the case, even for legitimate grounds = riots.
Blacks suffered worse under Obama than any demographic. Look at the unemplyement rates and net worth of black families.
What are Rats to do?
Manufacture a “war on women” and a “war on blacks” to scare and fool their voter base.
Even in the case of duly sworn police officers, there is no generalized obligation to obey police officers.
Laws narrowly prescribe those circumstances in which a police officer is legally allowed to order citizens around, such as for purposes of regulating traffic.
It's what distinguishes us from a police state (at least in theory).
The idea that progressives believe a police dispatcher has some sort of legal authority to order around citizens says all you need to know about progressives.
“Because he initiated the chase, he can not avail himself of self-defense.”
I gather you are not familiar with Florida law...
This is a widely disseminated LIE. The 911 transcript clearly shows Zimmerman was given no order, no warning. Answering affirmatively that he was following, he was only told this: "Ok. We don't need you to do that.
That is no order. That is no warning. There is nothing to obey. That is not even a request not to follow.
Wasn’t it another line he called? Not 911. ?
I read that on a thread here.
In most cases this wouldn’t reach a court; in this case I can’t wait to see what Judge they arranged to help the prosecution.
Was listening to dad’s TV while I do some chores. Think he may have it on CNN. Commentator caught my ear while talking about this case. Referred to witnesses changing their stories from the initial interview done by the police, the night of the incident. (Bet we know who he was talking about.)
He specifically mentioned the person changed statement to it was a “young boy” yelling for help.
Wait till the videos come out of the 6’3” hooded kid. Surprise! Surprise! (I assume his voice had changed....LOL)
"776.041 Use of force by aggressor.--The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force."
Self-defense still applies. If you punch someone in the mouth, they can punch you back. If they start beating your head against a desk (or sidewalk), then they are using lethal force to respond to your non-lethal attack.
Even if Zimmerman 'provoked' Martin by using racial slurs or shoving him, he would retain the right to self-defense if he reasonably believes the force Martin is using is now at lethal or great bodily harm level in response. A punch in the nose isn't lethal force - but pounding a head against concrete can be.
For Obama to be re-elected—Zimmerman must die. He will not survive in jail. An all black jury will convict him. Zimmerman is finished—even if innocent he will be sacrificed upon the altar of politics and mob rule. Think, Joan of Arc.
Based on my current knowledge of the facts, I’d currently vote to acquit, were I on the jury. However, I’m not at all committed to that position, and could be persuaded otherwise.
That said, I think this is one of those rare cases where a public trial must happen. There is no other way to ‘clear the air,’ and Zimmerman would greatly benefit by having the evidence publicly presented (and legally vetted by the prosecution’s failed attempts to refute it) that clearly exonerates him—assuming that’s what it will do.
Zimmerman said he was returning to his truck. Can you prove he wasn't?
How did Zimmerman get the bloody nose?
How did he get the wet grass stains on his back?
How did he get the cut on the back of his head?
If he was sucker punched from the back and the “boy” was straddling him and pounding his head on the sidewalk do you contend Zimmerman should have asked nicely “Please get off me?”
I know that your prosecutor's’ hat means you are trying any way to charge him so he will ask for a plea deal, but why is that “Justice”.
That's funny, because CNN is the venue that featured this witness as providing startling new information.
-- Wait till the videos come out of the 6'3" hooded kid. --
O'Mara is pretty tall, and really looks it standing next to Zimmerman. I wonder how tall O'Mara is. Put him in a Trayvon Martin Memorial Hoodie, and see what sort of impression that gives the viewer.
That is not true. A police dispatcher can not issue a lawful order and even so, there was no order and it is not ever clear Zimmerman disobeyed.
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