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Dear President Ronald Wilson Reagan, My Party Left Me Too...
My Own Thoughts | 04/20/2012 | DoughtyOne

Posted on 04/20/2012 5:55:30 PM PDT by DoughtyOne

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When I start threads with my thoughts, I like to let people bounce their opinions off them for a while.  Once I've made my case, I think it's your turn.

In this instance, I'm going to post some of my responses to objections to these thoughts from another thread.  I'm not going to post who wrote them to me.  We parted amicably and I'm not interested in casting dispersions.  The objections as stated were common ones.  I think it's reasoned to confront them on this thread as part of the discussion on this topic.

So, okay, it's your turn.  Later...

1 posted on 04/20/2012 5:55:36 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Windflier; itsahoot; Carry_Okie; calcowgirl; SierraWasp; greyfoxx39; Finny

For your review and participation...


2 posted on 04/20/2012 5:56:35 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Okay, now lets see if the RNC, Rove, and Card can get him elected without their core base. Game on!)
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To: DoughtyOne
I don't find anything wrong with that argument as written, but it certainly implies a causal link that hasn't been proven. Namely, that the reason the country has slipped to the left is because conservatives or Republicans are willing to vote for the lesser of two evils. But I don't think that has anything to do with it.

If you'll give it a bit more thought, I believe you'll realize that it does.

We have five elections over twenty years, where an avowed Leftist campaigns against a person who claims to be a Conservative, but actually doesn't campaign by voicing staunch support for Conservative ideals.  In this environment, nobody advances the premise that Conservative tenets are more sound than Leftist tenets.  Both campaign from a Leftist point of view, but one is less of a Leftist than the other.

Does Conservatism grow stronger under this model?  No.  It's impossible for it to.  It grows weaker, and that's precisely what has taken place.

The problem isn't conservatives voting for the lesser of two evils. Oh yes it is.  If Conservatives won't take a stand against Leftists within their own ranks, then they'll fall for anything.  McCain..., Romney...

The problem is that the horde of liberals and mushy-minded moderates all get to vote too, and they don't want the same people we do.  We could have said the same thing in Reagan's day.  Instead of adopting that strategy, Reagan reached out to Democrats by making sound arguments.  He prevailed because he supported sound policy, and sold it to others.  Who is selling it these days?  Nobody.

The stark reality is that conservatives are not the majority in this country. So if we want conservatives to win Presidential elections, we have to be fortunate enough to either 1) be running against a really crummy, uncharismatic Democrat, or 2) have a truly great conservative candidate.  Not true.  I don't think that's an outlandish comment by any means, but it is misguided.  If we want Conservatives to win, our party has to endorse them, support them, and keep lofting them.  I'm not making the case they will always win.  I am making the case that when our time does come to gain the leadership, a Conservative will be the person installed into office.  Our party clearly fights to defeat this reality.  In his day, Reagan WAS NOT the RNC favorite.  George Bush was.  None the less, Democrats reached out to thim and supported him.  The same dynamic is alive and well today.  Most people don't realize it.

Are you aware of the percentage of the populace that considers themselves to be a Conservative vs a Liberal?  41 vs 21% LINK

Sadly the RNC is operating under the same misconception you are.

Unfortunately, neither of those was available to us in this campaign cycle. I don't see that as a justification to give up on opposing the greater of two evils because of the greater damage that can be done by that greater evil. And, it seems obvious to me that conservatives are certainly going to have more influence over a GOP President than a Democrat who will be pandering to his base heavily his entire second term.

Okay, then you buy into the idea that we must always vote for the (R), no matter what.  I say that because the Leftist is always without fail described as someone we can't allow to be elected, or the nation will crumble.  Strangely, the more this seemed to make sense, the more Leftist our candidates(R) happened to turn out to be.  Now we're at the point that folks who partner with Soros, Kennedy, Kerry et al are the folks we're being asked to support.  McCain formed a 501c(3) with Soros, Teressa Heinz Kerry, and the Tides Foundation.  Look at what Romney has been up to.  Who needs Democrats when you have the level of treachery on our own side?

I'm not saying this to be mean, but you're playing right into the hands of the RNC here.  You're proving them right.  We'll vote for anything with an (R) after it.  Why should they move back to the Right, if they can get people this Leftist elected?  Do you want people this Leftist?  I don't think you do.

Just because the President is a Republican doesn't mean conservatives can't loudly and strongly oppose his policies with which we disagree.  Look, if you want to kid yourself that Republican Senators and Congressmen stand up to Republican presidents, go ahead.  The Medicare Prescription plan?  The Kennedy/McCain Immigration Reform Act?  Nice try.  Lest you forget, the Immigration Reform Act was a done deal, if McCain hadn't wanted to run for the presidency.  The Democrats were in charge.  They had the votes.  Republicans would have joined them.  So no, failing the withdrawel of support by one of the drafters, this bill passes.  Is anyone at all operating under the delusion that McCain wouldn't have revived this as soon as he was elected?  It was the realization of this that more than anything else, cost McCain the election.  And remember, he was the lesser of two evils.  His bill would have seen over 100 million Mexican nationals become U. S. Citizen in under 20 years.

As much of a squishy moderate as Bush was on some issues, I think most of us would agree this country would be in even worse shape if Gore of Kerry had been elected in his stead. And it does us no good if the patient dies before we can find the right doctor.

If the Republican party couldn't get Bush elected without Conservative support, do you think the next candidate would have been less or more Conservative?  Yes, we got Bush elected, and then he proceded to join with the Republicans and the Democrats to shape the nation that was handed off to Barack Obama.  Tell me this destroys my arguments here.  Well, you can't.

Do I want Kerry, Gore, Obama, in office?  No.  At the same time, I don't want Bush, McCain, and Romney in office.  I'm sorry, but the RNC will never get the message if we don't send it loud and clear.  This nation will get no better, and will only get worse until it gets that message.  Now, when will we send that message if not now?

3 posted on 04/20/2012 5:57:24 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Okay, now lets see if the RNC, Rove, and Card can get him elected without their core base. Game on!)
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To: DoughtyOne
In this environment, nobody advances the premise that Conservative tenets are more sound than Leftist tenets. Both campaign from a Leftist point of view, but one is less of a Leftist than the other.

I disagree right there. There are plenty of people espoousing conservative ideals, and they at least get presented as the alternative to what the Democrat does. And frankly, in this election cycle, Romney has rhetorically been a big booster of capitalism. It's his record on related issues that's the problem, but the conservative message is definitely getting out there even if conservatives themselves doubt his sincerity.

Okay, so your example is a guy who expouses the evils of abortion, but supported it for decades.  He now speaks out against Obamacare, but he himself supported the individual mandate to get his own health care bill passed in Massachusetts.  He's a strong supporter of gun rights, but signed on to many gun control efforts in the past.  He is the loudest voice on our team, gets full support from the RNC, Republican talking heads, Republican office holders, and the Republican elites, but is his own walking nullification.

This is what strikes you as the Republican party getting Conservatism's message out there?  LOL  Okay.  Does it ever occur to you that a man like this actually destroys our message, cheapens it, causes folks to look at Conservatives as liars and worse?

The RNC should have made it clear from day one, that Romney was a bridge too far.  He was able to run roughshod over Newt and Santorum.  I have no doubt that others who didn't have as deep pockets as Romnye did, decidced to stay out rather then go broke.

Romney was Conservatism's 2012 poison pill.  His message was brought to you by the entirely too willing RNCe.

The problem has been that conservative ideals are "tougher love" than the surface coddling that liberals offer, so it takes an exceptional messenger to make that case effectively.

No, it merely takes a messenger that has espoused these policies for more than six months.  Having done that, it must also be a person with a loud enough voice that he won't be drowned out by someone spending six to ten times more money, to denegrate him with non-stop television spots, to the point that nobody else's voice could be heard above the din.  That's exactly what we had going on this year.

What we utlimately found out this year, is that the RNCe has no standards whatsoever.  Any person can register as a Republican and do whatever they like for decades against almost every tenet of Conservatism, then decide to run for the presidency with the RNCe's full blessing.

If we want Conservatives to win, our party has to endorse them, support them, and keep lofting them. I'm not making the case they will always win. I am making the case that when our time does come to gain the leadership, a Conservative will be the person installed into office.

I don't see the virtue in drilling holes in the bottom of the boat so that the water runs out faster while waiting for that conservative to emerge. by then, we may be sunk.

I don't disagree with your premise, but I'm not confident you are seeing this clearly.

What we actually have is a boat with a good sized hole in it, we need someone to block that hole, and you don't see a problem with a guy(R) holding a smaller drill bit headed into the boat.  What do you expect him to do with that drill?  Stop leaks?  NO, he wants to make more.  They'll probably be smaller, but they'll still let more water in.  When do we STOP putting in guys with a drill in their hand?  McCain, Romney,... more holes...  Look at the holes our last guy drilled in the bottom of the boat.  Hell, he came very close to sinking the thing with the help of others.  Enough already!

Our party clearly fights to defeat this reality. In his day, Reagan WAS NOT the RNC favorite. George Bush was. None the less, Democrats reached out to thim and supported him. The same dynamic is alive and well today. Most people don't realize it.

The problem, again, is that we don't have a Reagan running. We had a pretty flawed slate of candidates. The reason we haven't nominated another Reagan is that another Reagan hasn't chosen to run.

We've got a guy running with hundreds of millions, and we can't understand why a guy with a few million won't decide to run.   As long as the RNCe allows wealthy or well-known Leftists to continue to choke the field, we'll continue to get the Leftists.  What part of this are you missing?

Are you aware of the percentage of the populace that considers themselves to be a Conservative vs a Liberal? 41 vs 21%

41% is not a majority. It gets you 41% of the electorate. In any case, peoples' definition of conservative may be ideosyncratic, and may not match yours or mine. But more importantly, if we assume that number is correct, then why didn't that 41% nominate a great conservative? It's because there wasn't one running. That was the core reason we're stuck with Romney today. Crud, the primaries showed that GOP voters kept flocking to the next non-Romney, in the vain hope they'd turn out to be the next Reagan. And they all failed. I voted for Gingrich, but I'd admit that he isn't Reagan either.  No, he isn't.  I agree with that.  I'm not a big supporter of Newt.  I could vote for him, but it would be grudgingly.

Earlier you were stating that the majority of U. S. Citizens were not Conservative.  I point out that only 21% of the public claim to be Liberals, and you respond by telling me 41% is not a majority.  Pardon me for pointing it out, but 21% isn't either.  The fact remains, people self-declare to be Conservative by almost twice the number who self-declare to be Liberal.  Why are we not appealing to those self-declared Conservatives and enough of a small portion of the self-declared moderates to win?  Instead the RNCe backs the most Leftist candidate every four years.  Why are we continuing to fight for the 21% that declare to be Leftists?  It makes no sense whatsoever, and yet here we go again.  I'll ask you directly.  Why do you find yourself compelled to support this?

The core problem we've had is a lack of good candidates. And honestly, the only "fault" we can attach to that is to those non-existent candidates themselves. The best I've seen recently is Rubio in terms of the ability to communicate the conservative message effectively, but he's still unripe. I just want to be sure we still have a country when he's ready to run in 2016.

Does he have $200 million dollars?  If he doesn't, and another Leftist with $200 million decides to run, don't count on a good candidate coming forward.

 BTW, my problems isn't the money or the fame, it's the way a person has lived their lives and whether they can be trusted to mean what they say today?

 I also have a big problem with the RNCe's policy of being willing to back any Leftist slimeball(R) whatsoever for the presidency.

 Thanks for the discussion.  I know some of this is rather pointed, but I'm not upset with you.  I'm just frustrated by what we are continually faced with every four years.  I want it to stop.

4 posted on 04/20/2012 5:58:05 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Okay, now lets see if the RNC, Rove, and Card can get him elected without their core base. Game on!)
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To: DoughtyOne
Thanks for the discussion. I know some of this is rather pointed, but I'm not upset with you. I'm just frustrated by what we are continually faced with every four years. I want it to stop.

Thank you as well. It is unfortunate that conservatives who are ultimately all on the same side often can't seem to disagree reasonably over what amounts to a difference in strategy rather than a difference in principle.  I generally agree with that, but it's not entirely off base to question where some advocacies germinate from.  If my perception is that a advocated policy might further the desires of Leftists in my own party vs the Leftists in another party, it isn't all that unreasoned to come to the conclusion that Leftists are still going to be the benificiary of that advocacy.  That doesn't mean the advocate realizes the ramifications of everything his advocacy may support in the long run.  And then again, it doesn't mean they don't.

I'm actually frustrated by those who chose not to run. He was not a perfect candidate, but Mitch Daniels was certainly more conservative than Romney, and right on all the issues even if he generally eschews red-meat rhetoric.  I share some of that frustration, but we don't know all things about people.  He may have a good reason for not wanting to run.

I'm just crossing my fingers that we make it to 2016 without things going beyond repair, when we'll hopefully have a much more conservative candidate.  Frankly, I'd like to see a majority enter the Republican Convention this year demanding the whole thing be tossed out on it's ear, and someone new be drafted.  IMO, that's the greatest most patriotic thing that Santorum and Gingrich could do right now.  They should form an exploratory committee and come up with a strategy and some names.  Sorry Newt, no way...  You had your chance and it wasn't you.

Failing that, we have got to start a Conservative coalition that will end the Republican party's lock on the nomination process.  It's past time for a civil war in the Republican party.

5 posted on 04/20/2012 5:58:39 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Okay, now lets see if the RNC, Rove, and Card can get him elected without their core base. Game on!)
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To: DoughtyOne

They didn’t just leave. They sold it to Soros!


6 posted on 04/20/2012 5:59:01 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: DoughtyOne
I happen to agree with you. I'm not a republican. I'm conservative. And every cycle, hope the GOP has a conservative to vote for. And sadly, that has not been the case for far too long.

So I won't vote for a liberal. Ever.

Especially Romney. In fact, I do, and will campaign AGAINST him to all my friends, associates, and family.

The insanity has to stop.

We have one liberal party with two faces.

/johnny

7 posted on 04/20/2012 6:01:21 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: DoughtyOne

Romney is a deep planted mole and another attempt by the communist/socialist zombies to destroy the party.


8 posted on 04/20/2012 6:04:37 PM PDT by W. W. SMITH (Obama is Romney lite)
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To: DoughtyOne

The stark reality is that conservatives are not the majority in this country.


I’m not so sure your right here. A good 90 to 95 percent of the population is to the right of center. They are feed a diet of leftist clap trap day in and day out and when they are not prodded into thinking about the difference between parties will end up voting stupid.


9 posted on 04/20/2012 6:12:36 PM PDT by W. W. SMITH (Obama is Romney lite)
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To: DoughtyOne

Well said, old friend. And now it’s time to don your kevlar briefs because you’ve undoubtedly antagonized FR’s Vidkun Quisling Brigade.


10 posted on 04/20/2012 6:13:58 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: DoughtyOne
If the Republican party couldn't get Bush elected without Conservative support, do you think the next candidate would have been less or more Conservative? Yes, we got Bush elected, and then he proceded to join with the Republicans and the Democrats to shape the nation that was handed off to Barack Obama. Tell me this destroys my arguments here. Well, you can't.

This is a major part of the problem in my view. The elder Bush gave us a more expensive government, then lost to Clinton. Dole - lost to Clinton. George W. Bush - gave us the biggest, most expensive, most powerful, and most intrusive government in our nation's history, and then with the help of McCain handed it off to Obama to abuse even more.

Obama looked at how Bush made the government more powerful and more intrusive, and decided he could make it even more powerful and more intrusive.

This is what voting for the GOP has gotten us since 1988 - more government which we then gave to the Democrats, and Romney is just more of the same, only a lot more liberal.

I'm with you, I'm done with the GOP as a party if Romney gets the nomination. The Republican Presidential nominees have done great harm to this country since 1988, and we are running out of time. This idea that things will eventually improve if we just bend over one more time is ridiculous. The Republican establishment is running out the clock on us, and we aren't willing to call a time out.
11 posted on 04/20/2012 6:14:37 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: DoughtyOne
Although we've disagreed on some things over the years, I've always held you and your opinions in high regard, from back in the Buchanan Brigade days.

Are you suggesting that, due to the slide to the left over the last decade, 'we' conservatives need to hit rock bottom, and build up from there?

I have to admit, back in the glory days of '98, none of us could have ever imagined the cultural shift to the left that has occurred. And, I'm sorry to admit, I don't envision it being righted in my lifetime.

12 posted on 04/20/2012 6:15:10 PM PDT by Rex Anderson
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To: DoughtyOne

I was a registered Republican since 18 up till 6 months ago..I’m now a registered Independent. Never again will I vote for the lesser of evils...I’ll let God Almighty sort it out!


13 posted on 04/20/2012 6:26:18 PM PDT by hope
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To: DoughtyOne

1980 [L-—d-—r-c-————R] *
1984 [L—d——r-c-————R] *
1988 [L—d-—r—c-————R] *
1992 [L—d-—r—c-————R]
1996 [L—d-—r—c-————R]
2000 [L—d—r-—c-————R] *
2004 [L-d—r——c-————R] *
2008 [Ld—r-——c-————R]
2012 [Ld—r-——c-————R]

I really like this, it shows what I have been trying to tell people for years.
The media is out there at the finish line cheering on the parties race to the end. With the Democrats in the lead the Republicans have the last few decades been pushing hard to at least catch up. This election cycle will see the parties reaching the finish line with Obama and Romney arguing over which of them can get us there quicker. The end result will be the enslavement of this nations citizens. Isn’t that special?


14 posted on 04/20/2012 6:30:07 PM PDT by W. W. SMITH (Obama is Romney lite)
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To: DoughtyOne

Well done.

Whomever it was that told you conservatives aren’t in the majority hasn’t seen repeated polling that shows Americans identify themselves, in the main, as center-right. They’re concerned for their families and their well-being, they are concerned that runaway spending is selling them up the river, and they want to feel safe in their homes and the country generally.

The Republican Party refuses with all its being to cater to these people. Instead, they go along to get along, get invited to all the right parties, and ride the gravy train in the seats right behind the engineers in the Democrat Party.

Should Mutt Romney be elected President, we won’t get a chance to even try to nominate a conservative candidate until 2020 — at which time, the Republic may well be either destroyed or damaged beyond repair.

I’m not going to support that by voting for Romney simply because he has an “R” by his name. I’ll fight like hell for conservatives at every level of the downticket, but Mutt can take a long walk off a short dock.


15 posted on 04/20/2012 6:31:08 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (There will be no vote for Myth Romney in my house. Period.)
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To: DoughtyOne

Too much color for me, I tried to read the thread, but no go on all this colored text.


16 posted on 04/20/2012 6:36:36 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Romney is a Mormon Bishop, as was his father, his uncle was in line to be the Mormon Prophet/Pope)
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To: DoughtyOne; Jim Robinson
I think you are missing one big thing here. A lot of people here may not like it, but it is just my opinion. (I've been considering writing a vanity on this for a while).

Conservatives have failed Reagan. Reagan was not a victorious Conservative because he was a champion of the government fixing problems for Conservatives. On the contrary, he taught us the scariest words in the English language: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Reagan simply reminded us that the greatness in the United States comes not from the government, but from her people. Reagan said unleash that greatness.

Have we unleashed greatness?

In my opinion, no.

We took a few years of believing in the greatness that Reagan reminded us of and instead of nurturing greatness within ourselves, we kept looking at politicians to help.

Don’t get me wrong, there were moments. The Tea Party seemed on the verge of restoring people’s faith in themselves. And while they did stand for Conservative policies, once again they missed the principle; stopping with wanting someone from the government who is here to help.

We would not have Obamacare if a majority in this country found the thought of having their butt wiped by the government appealing.

The GOP”e” can’t give us their “e” candidate if it weren’t for millions of individual people voting for that “e” candidate. We can’t even really blame Democrats crossing over. Republicans and Democrats voting for non-Conservative candidates are a failure of Conservatives joining in the cheer of looking for someone from the government who is here to help instead of communicating individual Conservativism.

We need, for the lack of a better term, a revival. We need an awakening that the answer doesn’t come from the next election or the next politician. The answer comes when 300 million people stand up to 300 politicians and say, enough, we don’t need you. We won’t accept your help or your promises.

The only way that will happen is if people start living individual Conservativism in their own homes first. Then, take it to their neighbors, their friends, and their family. In essence, it is a philosophical Going Galt.

You talk about voting for the lesser of two evils, but how often does politics give us any different. It is the very nature of politics. It attracts people who want to control others. Maybe once in a lifetime we get a statesman who doesn’t fit that mold, but they are so rare, we should never expect it. If you want someone who isn’t a ‘lesser evil’ you won’t find it in DC or wanting any hall of leadership. They are found leading businesses, in operating rooms, raising children, even bagging your groceries. That is the greatness of this country. Not politicians from the government, here to help.

Sadly, I saw someone on this very site, who everyone respects recently say “I am not a leader”. This is the core of our problems. We are looking outward for leaders from the government who is here to help. We need to wake up and realize, we are all leaders. It is our responsibility to make the country Conservative, not some guy from the government who is here to help.

So I’m sorry Mr. and Mrs. Conservative. You are a leader, whether you like it or not. Now lead. But lead people away from DC, not to it. D.C. is not the promised land of a future leader, it is our slave-master of Egypt we should get away from.

::rant off::

17 posted on 04/20/2012 6:50:54 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: DoughtyOne

#1; pray that the horse learns to sing.
#2; Try to talk every delegate into voting sane.
#3; Surround the convention center with 500k plus and don’t let them leave until they nominate some one good.
#4; surround the convention center with 500k plus and conduct a nomination right there in the open. Get a small radio station to broadcast live so everyone can hear and know what is going on. Take nominations and conduct votes right in the street and then dare the RNC to try and ignore us.
#5; or hell .....pray for the horse to learn to sing.


18 posted on 04/20/2012 6:52:05 PM PDT by W. W. SMITH (Obama is Romney lite)
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To: mnehring

Well said! :)


19 posted on 04/20/2012 6:52:27 PM PDT by LUV W (This space reserved for heroes)
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To: DoughtyOne

All this is mostly true. However, we have to support Romney now because former 1988 rivals Dole and GHWB say we must. Well, we just must.


20 posted on 04/20/2012 7:15:32 PM PDT by Theodore R. (Past is prologue: The American people again let us down in this election cycle.)
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To: hope

Well, hope, you just cut off your nose to spite your face. Now you can’t even influence the little Republican primary voters otherwise headed in the fast lane to the left. We just have to vote for Romney now; isn’t that what Jebbie and Barbara keep telling us?


21 posted on 04/20/2012 7:19:02 PM PDT by Theodore R. (Past is prologue: The American people again let us down in this election cycle.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Goldwater told conservatives to “grow up” in 1960 and back Nixon, and GHWB says the same this year for Romney. So we must “group up”, turn liberal and vote Romney. We just must. Goldwater later said Nixon was the “most dishonest man” he ever met, but our predecessors were commited to Nixon too.


22 posted on 04/20/2012 7:22:02 PM PDT by Theodore R. (Past is prologue: The American people again let us down in this election cycle.)
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To: Theodore R.

My state allows me to vote in the primaries, so spare me the theatrics.


23 posted on 04/20/2012 7:23:41 PM PDT by hope
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To: af_vet_rr

All you say is true, but we just must go with Romney now. Jebbie and his parents demand that we do so. And what Republican can say “no” to a Bush?


24 posted on 04/20/2012 7:24:43 PM PDT by Theodore R. (Past is prologue: The American people again let us down in this election cycle.)
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To: hope

Hope, most states still have closed primaries.


25 posted on 04/20/2012 7:27:10 PM PDT by Theodore R. (Past is prologue: The American people again let us down in this election cycle.)
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To: DoughtyOne

Have to bookmark for tomorrow..too late to put a coherent contribution just now...but let’s say I’m very much in agreement with most if not all of your thoughts here. Sad mostly.


26 posted on 04/20/2012 7:27:17 PM PDT by SueRae (Tale of 2 Towers - First, Isengaard (GOP-e), then, the Tower of Sauron on 11.06.2012)
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To: DoughtyOne

Not voting is a vote for Comrade Barack.


27 posted on 04/20/2012 7:30:16 PM PDT by Combat_Liberalism
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To: Combat_Liberalism

Or maybe it’s a vote for a conservative President in 2016.


28 posted on 04/20/2012 7:30:48 PM PDT by JediJones (From the makers of Romney, Bloomberg/Schwarzenegger 2016. Because the GOP can never go too far left.)
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To: Theodore R.

I understand. Just for me, I had to do this. It was a personal decision. I don’t recommend everyone do the same. I’m just fed up to here!


29 posted on 04/20/2012 7:31:47 PM PDT by hope
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To: DoughtyOne

I cannot argue with one word of your article. It’s exactly how I feel. I am sick of voting for the lesser of two evils and refuse to do it anymore.


30 posted on 04/20/2012 7:38:13 PM PDT by Nea Wood (When life gets too hard to stand, kneel.)
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To: DoughtyOne; W. W. SMITH
"is there life after the Leftists take over?"

Yeah, but it's mighty oppressive. Truly, today there isn't a 'dimes worth of difference between a Democrat and a Republican.'

But I lay the blame for that squarely on the 98.5 percent of those who call themselves 'conservative' that have never once attended a local district GOP meeting, much less their county or state meetings - or even a local politically active conservative club meeting.

But, more than that, I also blame 'Christians' that attend a church regularly where political issues are rarely if ever mentioned - and active participation in political activism is often openly discouraged.

W. W. SMITH says, "and when they are not prodded into thinking about the difference between parties will end up voting stupid" - which assumes a verifiable and significant difference, which has existed more starkly in the not distant past - but which has faded with the lack of interest in keeping that difference alive at the local district level.

Los Angeles CA has a lot of registered Republican voters, many who claim to be 'very conservative' - but, less than .001 percent of them darken the doors of the many GOP county meetings that take place monthly.

Recently of those 'Republicans' that do show up, near half of them are liberal, and they verge on being able to outvote the slim conservative majority.

Hence, I must take strong exception to much of what is said on this forum by many. They've not fought for conservatism themselves - posting here doesn't cut-the-mustard. They need to get out of the house and go fight for a conservative GOP where they live. If they won't, they haven't a leg to stand on when they complain here.

31 posted on 04/20/2012 7:40:51 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: DoughtyOne
A thoughtful analysis about exactly why this is so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-8g5S0z5Y4&feature=relmfu

I greatly miss Milton Friedman the way I missed Ronald Reagan. I pine for men to fill their shoes.

32 posted on 04/20/2012 7:44:29 PM PDT by PapaNew
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To: DoughtyOne

Excellent post. I was blasted four years ago when I said we should not vote for the GOP establishment candidate, that it was time to let the GOPe know we would not br taken for granted. I said the same eight years ago. If we had acted then we would not be faced with Romney.

You make a great point about the next election. If Romney wins this one we have Romney as the choice for eight years as.prez.. That is eight years of more shifting to the left and by then all firearms will be illegal. If Romney were a Dem I would not, could not votr for him. As as Republican I cant and wont vote for him either.

My party left me. I will vote for the best third party conservative candidate. Will some conservative please show me where I can send my contribution, lend my support and for whom I can cast a vote.


33 posted on 04/20/2012 7:51:13 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: DoughtyOne

Every year you hit a grand slam in the 9th. Good job, and thank you for your effort here.

We must purge the GOP of RINO control, and we must find a candidate who will tell people of American exceptionalism ....spelled FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don’t know if we can survive another 4 years of these guttersnipes. I will comment more tomorrow. Thanks again for this fine thread!

Warm regards,

SJB


34 posted on 04/20/2012 7:53:44 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

” Excellent post. I was blasted four years ago when I said we should not vote for the GOP establishment candidate, that it was time to let the GOPe know we would not br taken for granted”

I didn’t vote for McCain, as I consider him a traitor, and a psycho. So we elected a mentally-ill Marxist con man. Now we have Romney, who is a left wing Republican....happy days.


35 posted on 04/20/2012 7:59:38 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: DoughtyOne
Another video with Milton Friedman that goes a bit more in depth on this subject of why do people and societies tend to move towards collectivism. He's aged quite a bit here, but he articulates the heart of the issue better than anyone I've heard.

If you don't want to hear all 29 minutes, he hits these points at 4 minutes, 8 minutes, and 10 minutes. At 12:00 in the video, he asserts (1994) that we were more than 50% socialist. We're much worse now. He discusses in a way few do, why this inexorable move to the left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15idnfuyqXs&feature=related

36 posted on 04/20/2012 8:05:02 PM PDT by PapaNew
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To: JRandomFreeper
We have one liberal party with two faces.

That is precisely what it has come to. Republican vs Democrat has now become a distinction without a difference.

We conservatives have backed up over and over and over, when the GOP demanded we accept their weakling, liberal candidates, but this time, they're asking us to back through the gates of the gulag while they shut the door.

Sorry, but I'm not going there.

37 posted on 04/20/2012 8:15:16 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: DoughtyOne

38 posted on 04/20/2012 8:53:32 PM PDT by CodeToad (If it ain't Newt, we're screwt !)
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To: DoughtyOne
...is there life after the Leftists take over?

Probably not, but implicit in your question is the belief that they have not yet taken over and with this I agree.

The problem is the following IMHO:

A Marxist ideologue is President. His party's leadership is the same. Leadership of the opposing party also include some of the same elements. The Marxists have a compliant media who will never call them out for anything. My seat-of-the-pants guesstimate is that at least 95% of Americans have no idea of what these facts could mean for our safety and liberty. All those of us who do understand can only guess as to the specifics of the future we face if the Marxists maintain control.

I have confidence if Americans understood these facts they would do the right thing such that neo-liberalism / socialism / communism / statism would diminish to the point of political insignificance.

So the cure starts with education. Teach what it is that makes America exceptional. Teach what the founding fathers gave us and why it is so different from any other system of government. Teach what Marxism is and why and how it killed millions. Imagine a classroom with Newt and others as teachers putting this all together for the American people.

In the mean time, we need to build a power base. The question is how. What are the most practical steps to take to achieve this end and to ensure that the Marxists are not able to destroy liberty such that it cannot return without America devolving into a soul and spirit destroying statist atrocity -- a thing that precludes the return of America forever?

These are tough questions and the answers require leaders of a caliber up to those leaders of the first American Revolution. By now, for all I know, that leadership may already have formed or be in the process of so doing. The original founders were pretty coy in the lead up to the beginning of the Revolution. I mean, this ain't beanbag, folks.

I understand the founders always knew it would come to this. As they look down on us now, I wonder what they're thinking?

39 posted on 04/20/2012 8:59:32 PM PDT by No One Special
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To: DoughtyOne
Choosing a President: The Long-Awaited Dan Mitchell Endorsement

40 posted on 04/20/2012 9:57:33 PM PDT by BufordP ("Drink me if you can't take a joke." --Kool-Aid)
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To: PapaNew

That is Friedman and it is about collectivism but it is only 8 minutes long. By chance, do you happen to have another URL for the vid you mentioned?


41 posted on 04/20/2012 9:59:09 PM PDT by No One Special
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To: DoughtyOne

Many thanks for this, you’ve well summarized the drift of our society over the past century.

Along with this is a video, “The American Form Of Government”
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE )
that lays out just what type we should have - and the warning that we are headed to a tyranny of the elite!


42 posted on 04/20/2012 11:13:54 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: Theodore R.
All you say is true, but we just must go with Romney now. Jebbie and his parents demand that we do so. And what Republican can say “no” to a Bush?

LOL. Unfortunately the weak-minded are doing exactly that - voting for Romney because the liberals in the GOP scared them.

They talk about how Obama will become a dictator and tell everybody what to do, and yet here they are, doing exactly what they are told by the liberals running the GOP.
43 posted on 04/20/2012 11:44:06 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr

Romney will create a Mormon theocracy if elected! BOOGEDY BOOGIE BOO! Are you scared now, all you wimpy, wobbly Romney-butt-kissing freepers out there? Vote Newt and we will never again bow to a Mormon bishop.


44 posted on 04/20/2012 11:47:19 PM PDT by JediJones (From the makers of Romney, Bloomberg/Schwarzenegger 2016. Because the GOP can never go too far left.)
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To: No One Special
In the mean time, we need to build a power base. The question is how.

It can't be within the GOP, because the GOP will not allow it. Some people are convinced they can persuade Romney to move right, but he's already talking like he's going to move left for the general election, plus if he gets the nomination and somehow wins, he will install liberal Republicans just like him in positions of power, both within the GOP and within his cabinet.

Anybody who thinks that the GOP will somehow allow them to build a Conservative powerbase from within the GOP has not been paying attention to the last 24 years. Just about every Presidential election since 1988, Conservatives convince themselves that things will be better or that the liberals running the GOP will listen to them, and every time a liberal gets the nomination and expands the government and/or loses to a Democrat, or turns it over to a Democrat.
45 posted on 04/20/2012 11:48:12 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: PapaNew

I’m sorry. The URL is perfectly fine. It was my mistake.


46 posted on 04/21/2012 12:08:47 AM PDT by No One Special
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To: af_vet_rr

I think the progressive / neo-liberals / communists did it by building from within and from without. The outsiders, that is, the radicals, knew how to use power and they are succeeding. They are now in the process of making their party a good facsimile of historical totalitarian parties, at least that’s my judgement. They had and have a seeming advantage over us: they are entirely amoral and will do anything to accomplish their ends. We have an advantage over them. We can make our case in the light of day rather than under the cover of darkness. What is needed is the willingness to try and the intelligence to come up with a plan. By the way, what I have just said about the amorality of the radicals in the democrat party also goes for the republican establishment / rinos. They also are amoral and thus have a weakness that can be probed: they can only lie about their true agenda. Play to the weaknesses of the enemy and to our strengths. Seems to me, in a general sort of way, that’s the key. Don’t burn your bridges by foregoing the structures that already exist. The structures are fine. What inhabits them is not.

Another key: conservatives are not good leaders or followers because they just want to be left alone, but, we need leaders and an army. We are going to have to change. If we want to change the world, we need to start with ourselves.

This is a time to come together, not split apart. Recognize that each one of us has talents and experiences that can be valuable to the cause. Like I said in my previous post, 95% of Americans do not understand the problem. If I’m right, that means 5% do and are available for conscription into our political army. What do you think a united 15,000,000 man American political army can do? I think it can turn the entire world upside down.

It’s been done before. It can be done again.


47 posted on 04/21/2012 12:56:52 AM PDT by No One Special
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To: No One Special
Another key: conservatives are not good leaders or followers because they just want to be left alone, but, we need leaders and an army.

I just wanted to expand on the idea of leadership a little.

It seems to me we keep hearing that Rush Limbaugh is the leader of the Republican party. It seems to me this idea is put out there by the enemy. It seems to me there are many amongst us who accept this idea and as a result expect something from Rush he cannot give while we expect we need do nothing until Rush calls us to arms.

This is ridiculous. Rush Limbaugh is not a leader. Those of us who think he is and who are dissapointed because he did not give something we expected need to realize the problem is not Rush. The problem is us for expecting something from Rush he could not give and thereby foregoing our responsibility to do something positive for the cause.

And of course, the enemy knew just exactly what I just said. I mean really, why do you think they drafted Rush as general? It is because he is not along with the fact they want to put a target on his back.

We need leaders, real leaders, not ones picked for us by the enemy.

48 posted on 04/21/2012 1:53:49 AM PDT by No One Special
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To: W. W. SMITH
Romney is a deep planted mole and another attempt by the communist/socialist zombies to destroy the party.

We'll know that for sure once Obama taps him for the Veep position in late Oct and he accepts...

49 posted on 04/21/2012 3:29:03 AM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: DoughtyOne
Why would the Republican Party do this?

Because conservatives (most of us) have four major problems.

1. Poor organization. (Not that RNC is much better)
2. Absolutely no patience and little knowledge of tactics and rules of the game.
3. Most people look for leaders instead of being leaders.
4. The perfect is the enemy of the good or at least acceptable.

I can't speak for your state, but here the Republican party is elected. Precinct delegates run for office and pick their leadership in local and state parties, as well as RNC committee members. Most of the time, that position has no candidates. Most of us don't run, or at least heavily back good people to run for party leadership. Most of us sit and bitch. (Not directing this at you since you actually have been active). One of my best friends is about as conservative as it gets, and he's accepted or at least tolerated in mid-level leadership because he's a hard worker who is active. He'll probably be state party treasurer someday because he's an expert on campaign finance regulation. Those active and who pay their dues earn respect of the grass roots party members.

The other thing is campaign knowledge. How many people have run a campaign? A serious campaign that isn't for what is known as "some dude" in insider circles and had a serious chance to win AND had serious opposition. It can be for local office even. It's not cheap, either in finances or manpower. If you have one and not the other, the other costs much more than it otherwise would. If you have neither, you will lose outside of a miracle. If you are poorly organized, both will cost more. Good name recognition is key.

As far as Romney goes, the seeds were planted for Mitt back in Iowa when conservatives not only failed to find a strong anti-Romney (Santorum and Newt were blips on the radar until the others dropped out or crashed), they repeated tore down the other non-Romneys over and over. That is in addition to many trying to rip all candidates in an attempt to clear the path for Sarah Palin who wasn't even running. If Tim Pawlenty was in, he would have been in the nominee. Not exciting, but a competent manager who is at least pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, better than Mitt on fiscal issues, and known as a one of the few real decent guys in politics.

50 posted on 04/21/2012 3:55:10 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (The Republican Party is bigger than the presidency.)
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