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MAN TRIES TO RELINQUISH US CITIZENSHIP. APPLICATION DENIED.
Sovereign Man ^ | 04/25/2012 | Simon Black

Posted on 04/26/2012 1:38:58 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

I was approached recently by a member of our Sovereign Man community who filed the paperwork to relinquish US citizenship some time ago. Long story short, after an incomprehensibly long wait, the US government finally sent him a reply: Application DENIED.

Absolutely shocking. That you even have to ‘apply’ to relinquish what you never signed up for is intellectually insulting. That you cannot do so freely, and immediately, is nothing short of totalitarian.

It’s still an embryonic movement, though more and more US citizens are being driven to divorce their country. Last year nearly 1,600 people gave up US citizenship, up from 1,485 in 2010, 731 in 2009, and 226 in 2008.

While some renunciants have philosophical misgivings about being American, most do it for tax reasons. There’s a growing number of expats who, despite living abroad for years, are still paying huge portions of their income to Uncle Sam.

What’s more, the filing requirements are getting more and more onerous. US citizens living overseas have to keep up with all sorts of changes to the tax code that they may not be privy to, and the penalties for noncompliance are severe.

I can’t tell you how many friends I have who are US citizens living abroad that had no idea they were supposed to file the Report of Foreign Bank Account (FBAR) form every year; or the new FATCA form 8938; or those with businesses that must file form 8858 or 5471.

Usually these things come with pretty nasty penalties, possibly up to $10,000 per instance of failure to file.

Then there’s the latest, greatest tax target: accidental US citizens. This group consists of foreigners who happen to be dual nationals because they were born in the US or have an American parent.

These foreigners have spent their entire lives outside the US. They know absolutely nothing about US tax code. Now they’re getting Dear John letters from the US government saying-

“I see you are a US citizen but have never filed your taxes. Please enclose a check for the following absurd amount of money, which includes interest and penalties for the last 20-years…”

Such tactics smack of desperation… typical of the same sorts of cannibalistic moves that failing, bankrupt governments throughout history have exacted upon their people.

Citizenship is nothing more than accident of birth. Yet in the modern nation-state paradigm, governments lay claim to citizens from the time they’re born as if we’re property.

Children are saddled with obligations that they never signed up for– taxes, compulsory military service, a debilitating national debt, etc.

Most countries at least have procedures to voluntarily surrender citizenship for those who choose to opt out of the system; in the United States, it is contained in section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

The process usually takes place overseas at a US consulate– you have to fill out a series of forms, swear an oath in front of a government official, and eventually file a final tax return. Some people even have to pay a steep ‘exit tax’ on the value of their assets.

I know dozens who have done this, and from what my friends tell me, many of the consular officials attempt to impugn, insult, or otherwise intimidate people looking to surrender their citizenship. It’s their last-ditch effort to keep the milk cows from escaping the dairy farm.

For example, one official tried terrorizing a friend of mine last year in South Africa, saying, “This smells like TAX EVASION to me!”

Despite all the forms, the bureaucracy, and the intimidation tactics, I had never heard of a case where someone’s properly submitted ’application’ to surrender citizenship has been denied (bar Ken O’Keefe). Until now.

But in what may be the most distinguishing mark of a totalitarian state, the US government has now officially prevented someone from freely leaving the system. The Soviet Union comes to mind.

It certainly does make one wonder to what desperate lows they will sink to next.


TOPICS: Government; Society
KEYWORDS: citizenship; expats; us; uscitizenship
From Hotel California:

YOU CAN CHECK OUT ANYTIME YOU LIKE, BUT YOU CAN NEVER LEAVE !!

1 posted on 04/26/2012 1:39:04 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

The Matrix.

Its demands our life force to run.


2 posted on 04/26/2012 1:46:12 PM PDT by NoLibZone (I'm with Sarah, Perry & Cheney - Anybody but Obama, because it's not always about me.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Pretty soon we’ll have internal passports. If California says you can’t move to a lower tax state you won’t be able to.


3 posted on 04/26/2012 1:50:21 PM PDT by x1stcav (There's a bunch of us out here spoiling for a fight.)
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To: SeekAndFind
That you even have to ‘apply’ to relinquish what you never signed up for is intellectually insulting. That you cannot do so freely, and immediately, is nothing short of totalitarian.

The land of the free...

4 posted on 04/26/2012 1:54:07 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: SeekAndFind

How do you even ‘apply’ to relinquish your citizenship?

Is there a form for that?

Who do you send it to?

If you have NO citizenship, where can you go to live?


5 posted on 04/26/2012 1:55:49 PM PDT by Mr. K (If Romney wins the primary, I am writing-in PALIN)
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To: SeekAndFind

6 posted on 04/26/2012 2:00:22 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Mr. K

“How do you even ‘apply’ to relinquish your citizenship?
Is there a form for that?
Who do you send it to?
If you have NO citizenship, where can you go to live?”

Are you really that naive?


7 posted on 04/26/2012 2:01:31 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: Mr. K
Basically the rules are that you have to go to an embassy or consulate in a foreign country, convince the official that you're serious and know what this means, fill out a form, swear an oath of renunciation and hand over your passport. If you don't have some other arrangement with another country, you're then rendered stateless.

This article is short on details, but it kinda sounds like someone in the US just mailed in a form.

8 posted on 04/26/2012 2:02:39 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Mr. K

RE: If you have NO citizenship, where can you go to live?

Apparently the man who applied to relinquish US citizenship has citizenship in another country.


9 posted on 04/26/2012 2:03:04 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Mr. K

This website could help answer questions on US citizenship renunciation:

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

In short:

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

1) appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,

2) in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and

3) sign an oath of renunciation

Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds

READ ON FOR DETAILS...


10 posted on 04/26/2012 2:06:35 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

How interesting that this should begin at exactly the time they’re trying to suspend the passports of those who owe tax.

Owe? We won’t let you leave.

Leave? We’ll tax you tons.

Discard your citizenship? We’re refuse to permit you to.

What step comes after making into Americans those who arrived as criminals..?

The next step is to make criminals of everyday, real Americans.


11 posted on 04/26/2012 2:12:33 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: SeekAndFind
Few,if any,civilized countries will allow you to renounce your citizenship unless you prove that you have another citizenship.
12 posted on 04/26/2012 2:19:21 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: SeekAndFind

IIRC the IRS is pullling passports on anyone who they think owes the government more than 50K.


13 posted on 04/26/2012 2:28:13 PM PDT by Chickensoup (In the 20th century 200 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: Chickensoup; SeekAndFind
IIRC the IRS is pullling passports on anyone who they think owes the government more than 50K.

The Democrats want to put that provision in must pass legislation. If it goes into effect, do you think there's any chance Warren Buffet's passport would be pulled?

14 posted on 04/26/2012 2:47:03 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: gaijin
Owe? We won’t let you leave.

Want to renounce citizenship? You must leave first.

15 posted on 04/26/2012 2:50:54 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: SeekAndFind

Yes, it is very difficult as I stressed to many people on several “Obama isn’t a citizen because of his Indonesian step-father” threads.

You can’t accidentally lose citizenship, it can’t be taken from you, except under the most extreme conditions, and you can only surrender it if you REALLY want to and are willing to jump through a lot of hoops.

I prefer it that way, it prevents mischief by government agencies.

Absent fraud, it should be easier to get citizenship than to lose it.


16 posted on 04/26/2012 3:31:07 PM PDT by GreenLanternCorps ("Barack Obama" is Swahili for "Jimmy Carter".)
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To: SeekAndFind

Remember all the foolish governments/countries we use to make fun of who had to erect walls to keep their people in.

Hmmm, seems we are heading in that direction.

The irony is the Feds may have to FINALLY build a wall at the border but not to keep illegal trespassers out but to keep us in. Just like the Feds would not let states secede.

The Founders would be so proud of us.... NOT!


17 posted on 04/26/2012 3:31:23 PM PDT by Wurlitzer (Welcome to the new USSA (United Socialist States of Amerika))
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To: SeekAndFind

Hey, give it to me then, I’d be thrilled! Work hard, pay my taxes and live quite happily, plus I’d vote conservative.


18 posted on 04/26/2012 3:33:56 PM PDT by Catholic Canadian
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To: SeekAndFind

What screwed him up was continuing to use his U.S. passport for travel after having established residency and obtaining a passport from another country.


19 posted on 04/26/2012 3:37:01 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: SeekAndFind

Actually, there are a whole bunch of reasons why people are denied giving up their US citizenship.

To start with, you cannot go “citizenless”, you must be accepted for citizenship by another country, likely one with whom the US has signed various treaties, especially extradition.

You must have a fine-toothed comb tax audit, and have to end all mortgages, liens, contracts, judgments, licenses, security bonds and any other potential sources of income within the US including properties. Though once you no longer have US citizen you can buy and sell in the US again.

And they will also check out your relative and business associates, to make sure you are not diverting funds to them.

You cannot have any outstanding warrants or citations in any of the 50 states or territories. You must provide the USG with your fingerprints, and today likely a DNA sample.

You will be flagged by every financial institution you do business with, to notify the government of all money transfers you are involved with, and they may be required to get permission before you can wire money out of the US.

Degree of difficulty jumps if you wish to take your children with you.

This list goes on and on.


20 posted on 04/26/2012 3:42:38 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("It is already like a government job," he said, "but with goats." -- Iranian goat smuggler)
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To: SeekAndFind

One thinks of the good ole Soviet Union and its humane laws.


21 posted on 04/26/2012 3:47:00 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: SeekAndFind

In Charlie Chaplin’s autobiography he said that he asked American officials why there was so much bureaucracy in renouncing his citizenship. He was told that they make it complicated enough so that it is not something people will do lightly, without thinking it over or if it is not their true wish. Maybe there are other reasons now.


22 posted on 04/26/2012 3:47:25 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: SeekAndFind
There's always the Legion...


23 posted on 04/26/2012 3:53:13 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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24 posted on 04/26/2012 4:25:48 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: SeekAndFind

I would love to see this enforced en masse on the first generation or two of “anchor babies”. The parents had the kids in the U.S., often going back home to raise them while collecting WIC and the un-earned income tax credit. Now that so many Mexicans are supposedly staying home or returning, tax those folks.
But I understand the Canadian-border issues, with so many Canadians having U.S. citizenship and then being told to pay U.S. taxes. This is actually causing a political issue for them, given the number of Canadians getting letters from the IRS.


25 posted on 04/26/2012 8:05:13 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: x1stcav
Pretty soon we’ll have internal passports.

What do you think the REAL ID Act is about?

26 posted on 04/26/2012 8:45:35 PM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: Paleo Conservative
If it goes into effect, do you think there's any chance Warren Buffet's passport would be pulled?

All of these laws are designed to be selectively enforced.

27 posted on 04/26/2012 9:32:11 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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