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Crash of Sukhoi SuperJet 100 During Sales Presentation a Harsh Blow to Kremlin's Export Aspirations
Reaganite Republican ^ | May 9, 2012 | Reaganite Republican

Posted on 05/09/2012 9:20:43 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican

Just what they didn't need...


Sukhoi SuperJet 100

After $1.4B in development, successful presentation/flights at the 2011 Farnborough Air show, and even Russian domestic commercial service, the Sukhoi SuperJet 100 seemed to be moving along towards attaining the respect and cash-generating exports Putin was looking for when the Kremlin orchestrated Sukhoi's collaboration with Italy's Finmeccanica and other foreign suppliers (including Boeing). The $32M plane features a number of firsts for a Russian commercial airliner, such as fly-by-wire technology and even a stunning Pininfarina-designed business-class.

Putin, Medvedev, and Berlusconi tour the SuperJet's cabin

Yet earlier today a new SuperJet 100 with 50 passengers aboard (Indonesian aircraft officials, Russian sales staff/crew/engineers, and journalists) appears to have fell out of the sky while on a short demonstration flight out of Jarkarta. Weather appears to be a factor in the crash, but regardless of the cause -except perhaps terrorism- it won't be bringing the aspiring exporter anything but hurt.

A shame for them, as the product seems a genuine quantum leap from the hardy yet crude, uncomfortable, and semi-safe commercial passenger aircraft the Soviet Union was infamous for. The remains of that industry collapsed in the economic chaos of the Yelstsin era, with former Soviet 'design bureaus' such as Yak, Ilyushin, and Sukhoi churning-out only military planes. By 2010, even the Russian airlines where running 75% Airbus, Boeing, and other imports.

Sukhoi SuperJet 100

The planned comeback in the domestic passenger-plane market (and simultaneous export offensive) was to be accomplished via two-pronged attack: first, the SuperJet 100 as an economical regional jet that seats up to 100 passengers, and powered by two Franco-Russian PowerJet engines. Then, the larger MS-21 is meant to make inroads against Boeing and Airbus.

Up until today's accident, the SuperJet 100 had 240 orders, with the only major airline stepping-up to the plate -Russian international carrier Aeroflot- 'encouraged' by the Kremlin to take their 30 planes, along with an option for 10 more. The company claims that if and when 200 orders are filled, Sukhoi will have broken-even on the project- indeed an substantial accomplishment. Yet after numerous delays, only a handful have been produced, engine certification being a major snag.

The Russians are still developing the Irkut MS-21 -'Airliner for the 21st Century'- a larger plane seating 150-212 that's intended to replace creaking Soviet fossils such as the Tu-154. Currently in the prototype stage, it was shown at Paris in shell/cabin mock-up form and is scheduled for deliveries in 2017...



Irkut MS-21

But there's awful lot of competition out there: not only is there Boeing and Airbus to contend with, but also quality product from Japan's Mitsubishi, Brazil's Embraer and Canada's Bombardier. And if they're planning to do it on price, they've got to consider China's profit-killing Comac now.



Prayers go out to the most unfortunate victims of today's SuperJet crash, including families and loved ones...
_________________________________________________________
Aerospace and Technology   Wikipedia   Aviation.net   DWS Government of the Russian Federation  BBC  Eligovision   The Telegraph


TOPICS: Business/Economy; History; Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: kremlin; russia; sukhoi; superjet

1 posted on 05/09/2012 9:20:52 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
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To: Reaganite Republican

It’s a clear rip-off of the venerable Boeing 737 and this crash will show the world that a corrupt regime can’t be trusted with your family’s safety.


2 posted on 05/09/2012 9:26:06 AM PDT by MeganC (No way in Hell am I voting for Mitt Romney. Not now, not ever. Deal with it.)
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To: ken5050

Personal *PING*

Enjoy your day, sir


3 posted on 05/09/2012 9:26:28 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
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To: Reaganite Republican

http://rt.com/news/sukhoi-superjet-disappears-radar-838/


4 posted on 05/09/2012 9:28:42 AM PDT by Doogle (((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated)))
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To: Reaganite Republican

Forward with Putin comrade.


5 posted on 05/09/2012 9:29:34 AM PDT by allmost
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To: MeganC

With all due respect, you have not a clue what you are talking about. DEspite Boeing’s collaboration with Sukhoi’s engineers during the design of the Superjet, the SJ-100 is not in any way a “rip-off” of the 737.

For one thing, the Boeing engineers would not have permitted such a thing. Moreover, there is just no commonality on the designs of the two planes.

Frankly, knowing what we know about all the weaknesses of the 737, no sane aircraft designer would want to “rip it off”.


6 posted on 05/09/2012 9:37:27 AM PDT by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: MeganC

Agreed on that, SJ100 fuselage identical to my eyes to the 737


7 posted on 05/09/2012 9:37:57 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
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To: Reaganite Republican

It’s the seven-thirty-sevenski


8 posted on 05/09/2012 9:41:44 AM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: Reaganite Republican; sukhoi-30mki

ping


9 posted on 05/09/2012 9:45:23 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1206 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: Reaganite Republican
When I joined the aircraft industry in the early 90s I asked some questions nobody in the industry could ever answer.

Since the Russians ripped off most of their designs what happens when they have to compete in the open market for aircraft sales? Will their patent infringements just be ignored? It appears that's what happened.

10 posted on 05/09/2012 9:45:44 AM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (Liberals make unrealistic demands on reality and reality doesn't oblige them.)
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To: Reaganite Republican
Looks like a combination B787,E190,A320.....

(and it probably is)

11 posted on 05/09/2012 9:49:39 AM PDT by RckyRaCoCo (I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery, IXNAY THE TSA!...P.S. Why did FR ZOT Frantzie?)
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To: Reaganite Republican

Crashing during sales pitch not usually is good.


12 posted on 05/09/2012 9:52:27 AM PDT by freedomlover (Make sure you're in love - before you move in the heavy stuff)
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To: Reaganite Republican

During the height of the “cold war” in the mid 50s my dad used to tell the following joke:

A communist offical died and went to hell. The devil asked him if he wanted to go to the communist hell or the capitalist hell. He answered that he wanted to go to the communist hell because he knew that the heating system wouldn’t work.


13 posted on 05/09/2012 9:52:37 AM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise
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To: Reaganite Republican

Is there an equivalent of the Bermuda Triangle over there in Indonesia?


14 posted on 05/09/2012 9:57:53 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Reaganite Republican

As long as the USSR has Europe by the reproductive organs through oil and gas exports they’ll be a country to be feared by all free,civilized people.


15 posted on 05/09/2012 10:06:07 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Julia: another casualty of the "War on Poverty")
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Is there an equivalent of the Bermuda Triangle over there in Indonesia?

I've traveled in that part of the world and two facts may be at play here...1) it's a very mountainous area and 2) the most unbelievable thunderstorms can pop up out of nowhere and at a moment's notice.

16 posted on 05/09/2012 10:09:24 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Julia: another casualty of the "War on Poverty")
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To: freedomlover
'Crashing during sales pitch not usually good.'

A flying Volt comes to mind.

17 posted on 05/09/2012 10:10:11 AM PDT by JPG (A dyslexic man walks into a bra...)
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To: Gay State Conservative

So it is a case of CFIT or storm blowing them out the air?


18 posted on 05/09/2012 10:12:11 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: John Valentine
you wrote . . . "Frankly, knowing what we know about all the weaknesses of the 737, no sane aircraft designer would want to “rip it off”."

Interesting comment considering it is statistically considered one the most successfully commercially designed aircraft.

Aside from the well known rudder issues (pcu) on the "Classics" . . . which is significant, . . . what other weakness(es) are you referring to?

19 posted on 05/09/2012 10:13:24 AM PDT by saywhatagain
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To: Reaganite Republican

Killing dozens of buyers is not good for sales.


20 posted on 05/09/2012 10:13:57 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
So it is a case of CFIT or storm blowing them out the air?

Not sure what CFIT means but in addition to the two points I've already made it's certainly possible that lousy crew and/or lousy aircraft are factors.

21 posted on 05/09/2012 10:17:13 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Julia: another casualty of the "War on Poverty")
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To: freedomlover
Crashing during sales pitch not usually is good.

Killing off the potential customers in the process won't really help either.

22 posted on 05/09/2012 10:19:15 AM PDT by 6ppc (It's torch and pitchfork time)
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To: John Valentine
Frankly, knowing what we know about all the weaknesses of the 737, no sane aircraft designer would want to “rip it off”.

Wikipedia states that more than 7000 B737's have been produced since introduction.Figures like that don't say "substandard product" to me.

23 posted on 05/09/2012 10:22:09 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Julia: another casualty of the "War on Poverty")
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To: Reaganite Republican

Too bad it didn’t crash with the politicians viewing the cabin on board. Had they been on board, the world would be a safer place and Russia would have a second chance at more freedom.


24 posted on 05/09/2012 11:00:51 AM PDT by MIchaelTArchangel (Da Bro' Gotsta Go!)
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To: Reaganite Republican

Sukhoi? Isn’t that pronounced “sucky”?


25 posted on 05/09/2012 11:02:45 AM PDT by MIchaelTArchangel (Da Bro' Gotsta Go!)
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To: Gay State Conservative

CFIT = Controlled Flight Into Terrain.

Assuming they had control...


26 posted on 05/09/2012 11:24:03 AM PDT by hattend (Firearms and ammunition...the only growing industries under the Obama regime.)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Controlled Flight Into Terrain.


27 posted on 05/09/2012 11:46:00 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Reaganite Republican

And this from the regime that was pounding the drums of war by announcing possible intentions to pre-emptively strike our missile defense systems.


28 posted on 05/09/2012 11:57:36 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (Resurrect the House Committee on Un-American Activities (HUAC)...before there is no America!)
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To: Reaganite Republican

“...the SuperJet 100 had 240 orders...

I just cancelled my order of 1. I told them to stuff it.

:)


29 posted on 05/09/2012 12:08:25 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: saywhatagain

The 737 was designed in 1964-65 and first flew in 1967 - 45 years ago. It wasn’t a bad design, given the design parameters of the time which included the need for performing with a maximum available thrust of about 40,000 lb from its two engines. Lightness was critical and the skin of the 737 was designed using a rather thin aluminum alloy. These were the “classic” 737s and you will find that they have had a long history of fuselage cracks and fatigue failures.

Most dramatic was the Aloha Airlines fuselage “peel back” of 1988.

Some beleive that the fatigue problem was addressed with the introduction of the NG model. There are still incidents of fatigue and skin failure, for example Southwestern Flight 812 on April 1, 2011 which experienced a fuselage skin failure “peel back” and cabin decompression (it was a “classic” model).

As I understand it these problems are surfacing in aircraft that have not reached their design life cycles, and it appears that some aircraft may need to be removed from service early.

There is no question that the 737 is a serviceable aircraft when properly inspected and maintained. There is no question also that Boeing has made a serious effort to deal with the shortcomings of the original design. I have no hesitation flying on a 737, personally.

I am only making the point that every plane has its failings and its strengths, and that the 737 is no different.

The bottom line is that the Sukhoi SJ-100 has little if any thing that derives from the 737. It has a similar shape and planform, as do virtually every aircraft competing in this market space. Form follows function, as they say.

But copying swept wings etc, is a trivial nonsense. Real copying is in the details of construction, and there is simply no evidence that the Russians “ripped off” the 737.

That’s simply crap. And that’s my point.


30 posted on 05/09/2012 2:50:22 PM PDT by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: Gay State Conservative

See my post 30 above. Also, I never said that the 737 was or is a “substandard product”, so please don’t put words in my mouth.

Much of this thread has been ignorant people trashing Russian aviation - basically trashing the SJ-100, which is also far from a “substandard product”.

The best aircraft in the world will not survive being flown at speed into the side of a mountain.


31 posted on 05/09/2012 2:54:15 PM PDT by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: John Valentine

The 737 is the most commercially successful jet airliner ever produced. Given that it is still in production and that the new version of it already has orders and it’s not even a prototype I’d say that even if an engineer didn’t like it that doesn’t matter because the engineer’s employer does.


32 posted on 05/09/2012 4:00:17 PM PDT by MeganC (No way in Hell am I voting for Mitt Romney. Not now, not ever. Deal with it.)
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To: MeganC

Nothing I can disagree with there. I certainly do not consider myself a 737 detractor; as you say, it has been an unqualified commercial success.


33 posted on 05/09/2012 4:22:43 PM PDT by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: MeganC

I now realize that it was you who made the absurd claim that the SJ 100 is a “rip off” of the 737. You ought to apologize for that.


34 posted on 05/09/2012 4:28:47 PM PDT by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: freedomlover
Crashing during sales pitch not usually is good.

Yes, it sucks. It's happened to me before but fortunately I don't sell aircraft.

It's Murphy's Law. A demo unit will always display some completely unknown quirk if a live customer is present.

35 posted on 05/09/2012 4:31:35 PM PDT by 2111USMC (Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.)
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To: Reaganite Republican

They could rename it “Titanic Airlines”.


36 posted on 05/09/2012 5:42:44 PM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: John Valentine
Excellent response and thank you for expounding upon your previous comment.

I have been sitting up front for a long time, and my employer has 4 of them (737-300) in the fleet. (I do the mad dog). So when I read your original comment(s), specially on a forum such as FR, was curious of your full meaning.

Of course in any crash, far too much speculation, too soon. Most unnecessary and ALWAYS incorrect.

My own personal experience, even when the "media" finally comes out with an authoritative statement . . . one can be sure that it too is not entirely correct . . . specially in certain foreign lands.

PS . . . to clarify, "Classic" is the reference to the 737-300/400/500 series. But not matter, Your point was well taken and informative.

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

37 posted on 05/09/2012 6:47:41 PM PDT by saywhatagain
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To: Reaganite Republican; a fool in paradise

And does it suck, Oy!


38 posted on 05/09/2012 6:52:09 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Reaganite Republican
SJ100 fuselage identical to my eyes to the 737

With all due respect for your admiration for the Gipper, you are in dire need of a visit to the optician.

My God, the fuselages are not even the same shape!

39 posted on 05/10/2012 10:21:43 AM PDT by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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