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Is It Wrong for Parents to Avenge Their Children?
The Christian Diarist ^ | June 21, 2012 | JP

Posted on 06/21/2012 12:42:20 PM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Imagine if you caught a man molesting your five-year-old daughter. Or if you discovered that a man was pimping out your 17-year-old daughter. What would you do?

When a 23-year-old Texas father heard his little girl crying behind a barn, when he saw her being sexually violated by Jesus Mora Flores, he beat the deviant to death.

And when San Francisco parents Barry Gilton and Lupe Mercado were unable to rescue their teen daughter from her pimp, Calvin Sneed, by peaceable means, they shot and killed him.

Both the Texas dad and parents Gilton and Mercado were accused of taking the law into their own hands. But their cases have been handled quite differently by the legal system.

In the case of the Texas dad, a grand jury in Lacava County declined this week to indict him, deciding that he was justified in using deadly force to protect his five-year old.

However, in the case of San Francisco couple Gilton and Mercado, they have been charged with murder by the city’s District Attorney and are currently being held on $2 million bail each.

To my mind, the San Francisco parents are no more guilty, no less deserving of mercy, than the Texas dad.

For the parents took the lives of wicked men who preyed upon their beloved daughters. The difference is that the Texas dad acted in the heat of the moment, while the actions of the San Francisco parents were premeditated.

But while neither law enforcement, nor the legal system, can be faulted for Flores’ molestation of the Texas dad’s little girl, both law enforcement and the legal system are to blame for leaving the teen-age daughter of Gilton and Mercado in the clutches of her pimp.

Indeed, the San Francisco couple tried for months and months to get help from the authorities, but to absolutely no avail. As time passed, they could no longer sit idly by knowing their daughter was whoring herself on the streets for Sneed, a reputed member of the Nutty Blocks Crips gang.

So they killed him and freed their daughter.

San Francisco D.A. George Gascon said this week, “I fully understand the frustration the family felt.” But he really doesn’t. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be prosecuting the couple for what he describes as “vigilante murder.”

It will be interesting to see what happens when Gilton and Mercado eventually stand trial. If I was on the jury, I would vote to acquit.


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: childmolestor; crime; pimp; revenge; vengance; vigilanteism; vigilantejustice; vigilantes
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I believe parents have a moral right, to use any means necessary, up to and including lethal force(in extreme circumstances), to protect their children from the wicked individuals out there who would prey on them.
1 posted on 06/21/2012 12:42:24 PM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Neither case is about avenging children, but rescuing them.

The title would be more apt if the children were back with their parents after the abuse had ended and the parents then planned and carried out a separate, retributive act of vengeance after the fact.

2 posted on 06/21/2012 12:50:11 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

If children can’t depend on their parrent’s, who can they depend on?


3 posted on 06/21/2012 12:57:23 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

GWS (goes without saying) the most inherent character of most parents is to protect their child by any means. The system obviously failed these SF parents and no one has the right to decide the validity and instinctive action of natural law which by the way supersedes man’s law. It is shameful to indict these parents.


4 posted on 06/21/2012 1:02:12 PM PDT by drypowder
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

When I lived in Austin, there was a case where a Karate instructor had kidnapped and ran off with a 10 yr old kid. He was arrested and extradited back to Texas. As he came out of security, in handcuffs, with a Deputy on each side of him, they walked past some phone booths.

The Father was waiting for him, and pulled out a .45 and shot him once in the forehead, then surrendered to the shocked and stunned Duputies - all on live TV.

He went to court and said he had no regrets, and that he would do it again if he could.

Texas jurors refused to find him guilty, simply because he admitted doing it, on live tv, in front of Deputies, while his victim was in handcuffs. Some people just need to be killed.

I wouldn’t sacrifice a quart of **** for the state I live in now; but I would proudly die for Texas.


5 posted on 06/21/2012 1:02:21 PM PDT by Hodar (A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.- Burroughs)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Gangs have abrogated their right to habeas corpus AFAIAC; they are waging war on the USA, which makes them enemy combatants. Summary punishment by the military is what is needed.


6 posted on 06/21/2012 1:07:22 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Hold the phone here..

There’s a world of difference in these two situations.

While the killing of the rapist was justifiable, there does seem to be some issues about an unmarried couple killing a man who was pimping out a 17 year old.


7 posted on 06/21/2012 1:07:31 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I have no problem taking a perp out, if he’s in the midst of the activity. However, it is imperative that it be the justice system carry out the actual justice.


8 posted on 06/21/2012 1:07:53 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

The family is the basis of society. The father is responsible for the safety and care of his family. In the case of the rapist, the man was caught in the act. The Father had to act to protect his family.

The safety, prosperity and general justice provided by Gov’t in the USA has conditioned people to believe this is how society normally operates. But this is an abberation - throughout history, society is often in chaos, and Gov’ts/rulers do not provide justice. That is why when the family unit is destroyed in the USA (we’re half way there now) Americans will be truly surprised and will suffer, because Gov’t certainly won’t protect them either.


9 posted on 06/21/2012 1:09:14 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Wrong analysis.

I would kill an adult I caught molesting a 5 year old girl even if she was no kin of mine at all.

There are crimes so heinous they deserve immediate punishment in the defense.


10 posted on 06/21/2012 1:09:33 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Guns Walked -- People Died -- Holder Lied -- Obama Golfed (thanks, Secret Agent Man))
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To: Responsibility2nd

You have a list of those issues . . . ?


11 posted on 06/21/2012 1:14:06 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
he beat the deviant to death.

I think "beat to death" is a mischaracterization..more like an unintended consequence of removing the rapist from his defenseless child with the means (his bare fists) he had available.

That said, living in Texas, I am sure if the Dad had splattered the guy's brains everywhere with a .45, the jury still would have no billed him under Texas Statutes.

12 posted on 06/21/2012 1:18:23 PM PDT by sockmonkey (I will vote for Romney to get Obama out of the White House..)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Matthew 18:5-7

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

5 And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; 6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it [a]would be better for him to have a [b]heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Stumbling Blocks

7 “Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!

We know that children who are abused are far more likely to become abusers. To stumble, in the verses above. The abusers are cursed specifically by Christ. Would I feel guilt because I took a human life? Of course, I am a normal human! Is protecting your children from abusers well within your natural rights granted by God? Of course!


13 posted on 06/21/2012 1:22:41 PM PDT by vpintheak (Occupy your Brain!)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Is It Wrong for Parents to Avenge Their Children?

No

The line must be drawn here

14 posted on 06/21/2012 1:22:49 PM PDT by ExcursionGuy84
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

wrong or right... I don’t care.
TOUCH MY KIDS = YOU’RE DEAD.


15 posted on 06/21/2012 1:24:10 PM PDT by libdestroyer
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To: Olog-hai

Sure do.

To begin with... the girls parents were unmarried. That alone leads to bad behavior in children as opposed to children of healthy marriages. Now while I’m not blaming anyone, I will say its possbile the 17 year old could have been acting out. It’s not even remotely possible the 4 year old in Texas did anything wrong.

The father in Texas didn’t mean to kill the rapist. These two did.

All I’m saying is... there are too many differences in these two wildly different scenarios to make the same conclusion.


16 posted on 06/21/2012 1:24:16 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: freedumb2003

so would i and waste not one tear for the perp.


17 posted on 06/21/2012 1:25:44 PM PDT by LauraJean (sometimes I win sometimes I donate to the equine benevolent society)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Doesn’t matter if it’s my child or not. I see someone harming a child in my presence, I will destroy that person. Somethings cannot be excused and harming a child is at the top of that list.


18 posted on 06/21/2012 1:26:25 PM PDT by BCR #226 (02/07 SOT www.extremefirepower.com...The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I wouldn’t vote to convict any of these parents if I were on the jury.

The pimped daughter’s parents, because the law would not help them. They went to the law. The law didn’t care that their daughter was being pimped out. Even if it had, what would the pimp had to do if he were caught, tried and convicted? Two months? There is no justice.

The raped five year old’s parent, for far more reasons. First of all he was defending her as he caught the monster in the act. Secondly there is NO consent on a five year old’s part. But lastly, because there is no justice for child molesters in this country. He may have just been deported. . . or gotten 5 years in prison or something. He should be plain old executed. Until convicted child rapists are executed, I support any parent who kills them. Not politically correct, but that’s the way it is.

When there is no justice, people take justice into their own hands. Our legislators need to remember that. We need to have a sense that justice usually prevails.


19 posted on 06/21/2012 1:30:15 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: Responsibility2nd; CHRISTIAN DIARIST; Jonty30; freedumb2003; drypowder; chuckles; Hodar

Texas law allows use of deadly force when defending a victim against sexual assault and kidnapping both of which applied in the Texas case. It was a simple decision for the Grand Jury:

Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE
a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor’s belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;


20 posted on 06/21/2012 1:30:47 PM PDT by An American! (Proud To Be An American!)
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To: An American!

whoops grabbed the Self Defense instead of
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect the actor against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or

(B) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.


21 posted on 06/21/2012 1:31:59 PM PDT by An American! (Proud To Be An American!)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

There’s some subtleties to this in which we all might agree.

To start with, there are cases of pure vengeance, but critically in those cases, the authorities *acted*, and the criminal was likely to get the full force of the law, but only to the extent of the law, which the parents thought was not enough. The karate guy is an example of this.

In the case of the 17 year old, the parents called on the authorities to act, but importantly, *they did not act*. So this is not pure vengeance, but vigilantism, taking the law into your own hands because the authorities either refuse to, or worse, take the side of the criminal.

Arguments are often made, however, in the gun control debate that *if* there are authorities then people don’t need guns, which is bogus, of course. But that also relates to the father of the 4 year old. If someone is committing a violent felony, *any* person is authorized to use up to and including lethal force to stop them.

That is, authorities are *constrained* to try and *arrest* violent criminals *alive*, even while they are in the middle of committing a crime, if they can; but ordinary people are not so limited. If they kill the criminal, they should have relative immunity from prosecution.

However, this does not mean they can just walk away. The medical examiner must determine that the dead criminal was killed, which *automatically* makes the cause of death “homicide”. And since there is no statute of limitations for homicide, it is necessary to convene a grand jury to see if they will indict the person for killing the criminal.

It *used* to be the case that the grand jury almost *had* to indict the person, so that a criminal jury could acquit them, so they would be protected from prosecution in the future because of double jeopardy. Not so much anymore.

Yes, it’s a messy process, even if it is plain as day that the criminal was committing a violent crime when they were killed.


22 posted on 06/21/2012 1:35:49 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Well I believe in the law. But if the law fails to protect us and our children—and especially if it PREVENTS us from protecting ourselves and our children—then there is obviously something wrong, and we must protect ourselves.


23 posted on 06/21/2012 1:44:08 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Going into debt is taking the canoe out with the tide and coming back against it.)
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To: Savage Beast

But I must hasten to say that revenge is wrong. I do not believe in revenge.


24 posted on 06/21/2012 1:45:17 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Going into debt is taking the canoe out with the tide and coming back against it.)
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To: Savage Beast

But I must hasten to say that revenge is wrong. I do not believe in revenge.


25 posted on 06/21/2012 1:45:17 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Going into debt is taking the canoe out with the tide and coming back against it.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

At some point we have to abandon “Uncle Sugar” and protect our kids! 9 mil, shot gun or bear hands. No “never mind!” they are family!


26 posted on 06/21/2012 1:45:43 PM PDT by cpa4you (CPA4YOU)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

You had better make DAMN SURE someone is guilty first (like catching them in the act), because children lie like dogs nowadays, and will fabricate BS out of whole cloth just to stir trouble.


27 posted on 06/21/2012 1:47:06 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Savage Beast
Not only is revenge wrong, but it's stupid and self-destructive.

Anybody see Hatfields & McCoys?

28 posted on 06/21/2012 1:47:33 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Going into debt is taking the canoe out with the tide and coming back against it.)
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To: Jonty30

I have no problem taking a perp out, if he’s in the midst of the activity. However, it is imperative that it be the justice system carry out the actual justice.

We no longer have a justice system. We have a legal system. If we had a justice system there would be weekly executions in almost every state in the union.


29 posted on 06/21/2012 1:48:42 PM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

You can also bet your bottom dollar that every last kid on that school bus is DENYING that they had ANYTHING to do with abusing that poor bus monitor.


30 posted on 06/21/2012 1:49:40 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Oh wait, this is a father asking his child to avenge him. The original post was the other way around. My bad.

31 posted on 06/21/2012 1:51:39 PM PDT by Pappy Smear (Support the presidency, end the policies.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

It’s one thing to kill someone in self-defense or in defense of another while the victim is being raped, beaten, or what have you, as in the case of the little girl. It’s something else entirely to plan to kill the person who victimized your child and carry out that plan. That’s cold-blooded murder as far as I’m concerned and those who do that should go to jail. What would happen to society if every parent went around getting vengeance? I thought vengeance belonged to God.


32 posted on 06/21/2012 2:08:26 PM PDT by Luna (Evil will not triumph. God is at the helm.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

The problem for the Mercado family is that the daughter didn’t “want” to be “rescued”.

well...that and the fact they weren’t too clever about it...

Shooting at him in the car, with the daughter inside...


33 posted on 06/21/2012 2:09:54 PM PDT by G Larry (There's no hope of a safe landing when you hire a suicidal pilot!)
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To: freedumb2003

“... I would kill an adult I caught molesting a 5 year old girl even if she was no kin of mine”.

You are the reason that I still have hope in this world!


34 posted on 06/21/2012 2:10:03 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: Savage Beast

It is NOT “revenge”.

It is a CURE!


35 posted on 06/21/2012 2:15:15 PM PDT by G Larry (There's no hope of a safe landing when you hire a suicidal pilot!)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Those who like murder mysteries might enjoy my novel THE JUSTICE COOPERATIVE, about a couple who cannot get justice through the legal system, and decide to get justice for themselves. In the novel I attempt to explore the rights and wrongs of committing what the law would call murder, in the pursuit of justice. Buy from Amazon.
36 posted on 06/21/2012 2:17:54 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney ( New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Sex without moral contraints does become aggressive and has no qualms with targeting children. Libs want to legalize adult sex with children calling it a ‘child’s right’ and children are easily manipulated by adults who would harm them without thinking twice to please themselves.

So, in the future, a lot of parents are going to be faced with abandoning the sense of responsibility for the well being of their children or killing sexual aggressors who take advantage of their children. It’s going to make Sodom look like a picnic.

If you look at what liberals have done with normal men in their homo brain washing - they made it illegal and shameful to take out homo predators and sexual harassers of normal men. They will do the same thing to parents when they move on to other people’s children.


37 posted on 06/21/2012 2:35:52 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Hodar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3Hyxuf5AE


38 posted on 06/21/2012 2:37:37 PM PDT by lowbridge (Joe Biden: "Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy.")
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To: Savage Beast

Retribution, do you believe in retribution?


39 posted on 06/21/2012 2:42:13 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Liberals, at their core, are aggressive & dangerous to everyone around them,)
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To: freedumb2003

Finally. My kind of man. I have said all along that the college kid at Penn State should have cold-cocked the coach when he found him in the shower with a kid. I know I would have.

People say “Well, he DID report it.” BIG DEAL. He should have introduced the coach’s head to the shower tile.

Thanks for posting.


40 posted on 06/21/2012 2:58:01 PM PDT by HeadOn (With my last breath, I will pull the lever against the liberals. NEVER GIVE UP.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I would be sympathetic toward the parents of the 17 year old girl. They rescued her from a gangster. That she maybe didn’t want to be rescued is neither here nor there. She’s their under-aged daughter; they have a responsibility to get her out of that situation.

The predator would be back after her, and if he couldn’t get her, he would get someone else.

We delegate justice to a professional system, but it is not the property of the system. There are times you have to act, and then face the consequences. They may do time for what they did; that doesn’t mean they should not have acted.


41 posted on 06/21/2012 3:02:21 PM PDT by marron
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To: Persevero
I wouldn’t vote to convict any of these parents if I were on the jury.
Even though I see some big differences between the two cases, I still agree with you.
42 posted on 06/21/2012 3:07:08 PM PDT by samtheman (If we want Obamugabe out, we must vote him out.)
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To: chuckles

Amen,Don,t mess my family.


43 posted on 06/21/2012 3:10:55 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: G Larry

I didn’t say that it was “revenge”. Frankly, I would have done the same thing.


44 posted on 06/21/2012 4:07:27 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Going into debt is taking the canoe out with the tide and coming back against it.)
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To: G Larry

I didn’t say that it was revenge. Frankly, I would have done the same thing.


45 posted on 06/21/2012 4:07:53 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Going into debt is taking the canoe out with the tide and coming back against it.)
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To: G Larry
I didn't say that it was revenge. Frankly, I would have done the same thing.

You are familiar with the Hatfield/McCoy feud?

46 posted on 06/21/2012 4:08:06 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Going into debt is taking the canoe out with the tide and coming back against it.)
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To: G Larry
I didn't say that it was revenge. Frankly, I would have done the same thing.

You are familiar with the Hatfield/McCoy feud? The Montague/Capulet?

47 posted on 06/21/2012 4:08:38 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Going into debt is taking the canoe out with the tide and coming back against it.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

“up to and including lethal force(in extreme circumstances), to protect their children from the wicked individuals out there who would prey on them. “

I think “prey on them” is extreme enough to warrant lethal force. We used to hang pedophiles and rapists, now we give then 18 months in prison and lifetime therapy.


48 posted on 06/21/2012 4:11:38 PM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: Savage Beast

Have you tried decaf?


49 posted on 06/21/2012 4:11:42 PM PDT by G Larry (There's no hope of a safe landing when you hire a suicidal pilot!)
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To: Hodar
"When I lived in Austin, there was a case where a Karate instructor had kidnapped and ran off with a 10 yr old kid. He was arrested and extradited back to Texas. As he came out of security, in handcuffs, with a Deputy on each side of him, they walked past some phone booths...Texas jurors refused to find him guilty...wouldn’t sacrifice a quart of **** for the state I live in now; but I would proudly die for Texas.

Except that story took place in Louisiana.

50 posted on 06/21/2012 4:14:13 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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