Skip to comments.Is It Wrong for Parents to Avenge Their Children?
Posted on 06/21/2012 12:42:20 PM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Imagine if you caught a man molesting your five-year-old daughter. Or if you discovered that a man was pimping out your 17-year-old daughter. What would you do?
When a 23-year-old Texas father heard his little girl crying behind a barn, when he saw her being sexually violated by Jesus Mora Flores, he beat the deviant to death.
And when San Francisco parents Barry Gilton and Lupe Mercado were unable to rescue their teen daughter from her pimp, Calvin Sneed, by peaceable means, they shot and killed him.
Both the Texas dad and parents Gilton and Mercado were accused of taking the law into their own hands. But their cases have been handled quite differently by the legal system.
In the case of the Texas dad, a grand jury in Lacava County declined this week to indict him, deciding that he was justified in using deadly force to protect his five-year old.
However, in the case of San Francisco couple Gilton and Mercado, they have been charged with murder by the citys District Attorney and are currently being held on $2 million bail each.
To my mind, the San Francisco parents are no more guilty, no less deserving of mercy, than the Texas dad.
For the parents took the lives of wicked men who preyed upon their beloved daughters. The difference is that the Texas dad acted in the heat of the moment, while the actions of the San Francisco parents were premeditated.
But while neither law enforcement, nor the legal system, can be faulted for Flores molestation of the Texas dads little girl, both law enforcement and the legal system are to blame for leaving the teen-age daughter of Gilton and Mercado in the clutches of her pimp.
Indeed, the San Francisco couple tried for months and months to get help from the authorities, but to absolutely no avail. As time passed, they could no longer sit idly by knowing their daughter was whoring herself on the streets for Sneed, a reputed member of the Nutty Blocks Crips gang.
So they killed him and freed their daughter.
San Francisco D.A. George Gascon said this week, I fully understand the frustration the family felt. But he really doesnt. Otherwise, he wouldnt be prosecuting the couple for what he describes as vigilante murder.
It will be interesting to see what happens when Gilton and Mercado eventually stand trial. If I was on the jury, I would vote to acquit.
The title would be more apt if the children were back with their parents after the abuse had ended and the parents then planned and carried out a separate, retributive act of vengeance after the fact.
If children can’t depend on their parrent’s, who can they depend on?
GWS (goes without saying) the most inherent character of most parents is to protect their child by any means. The system obviously failed these SF parents and no one has the right to decide the validity and instinctive action of natural law which by the way supersedes man’s law. It is shameful to indict these parents.
When I lived in Austin, there was a case where a Karate instructor had kidnapped and ran off with a 10 yr old kid. He was arrested and extradited back to Texas. As he came out of security, in handcuffs, with a Deputy on each side of him, they walked past some phone booths.
The Father was waiting for him, and pulled out a .45 and shot him once in the forehead, then surrendered to the shocked and stunned Duputies - all on live TV.
He went to court and said he had no regrets, and that he would do it again if he could.
Texas jurors refused to find him guilty, simply because he admitted doing it, on live tv, in front of Deputies, while his victim was in handcuffs. Some people just need to be killed.
I wouldn’t sacrifice a quart of **** for the state I live in now; but I would proudly die for Texas.
Gangs have abrogated their right to habeas corpus AFAIAC; they are waging war on the USA, which makes them enemy combatants. Summary punishment by the military is what is needed.
Hold the phone here..
There’s a world of difference in these two situations.
While the killing of the rapist was justifiable, there does seem to be some issues about an unmarried couple killing a man who was pimping out a 17 year old.
I have no problem taking a perp out, if he’s in the midst of the activity. However, it is imperative that it be the justice system carry out the actual justice.
The family is the basis of society. The father is responsible for the safety and care of his family. In the case of the rapist, the man was caught in the act. The Father had to act to protect his family.
The safety, prosperity and general justice provided by Gov’t in the USA has conditioned people to believe this is how society normally operates. But this is an abberation - throughout history, society is often in chaos, and Gov’ts/rulers do not provide justice. That is why when the family unit is destroyed in the USA (we’re half way there now) Americans will be truly surprised and will suffer, because Gov’t certainly won’t protect them either.
I would kill an adult I caught molesting a 5 year old girl even if she was no kin of mine at all.
There are crimes so heinous they deserve immediate punishment in the defense.
You have a list of those issues . . . ?
I think "beat to death" is a mischaracterization..more like an unintended consequence of removing the rapist from his defenseless child with the means (his bare fists) he had available.
That said, living in Texas, I am sure if the Dad had splattered the guy's brains everywhere with a .45, the jury still would have no billed him under Texas Statutes.
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
5 And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; 6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it [a]would be better for him to have a [b]heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!
We know that children who are abused are far more likely to become abusers. To stumble, in the verses above. The abusers are cursed specifically by Christ. Would I feel guilt because I took a human life? Of course, I am a normal human! Is protecting your children from abusers well within your natural rights granted by God? Of course!
wrong or right... I don’t care.
TOUCH MY KIDS = YOU’RE DEAD.
To begin with... the girls parents were unmarried. That alone leads to bad behavior in children as opposed to children of healthy marriages. Now while I’m not blaming anyone, I will say its possbile the 17 year old could have been acting out. It’s not even remotely possible the 4 year old in Texas did anything wrong.
The father in Texas didn’t mean to kill the rapist. These two did.
All I’m saying is... there are too many differences in these two wildly different scenarios to make the same conclusion.
so would i and waste not one tear for the perp.
Doesn’t matter if it’s my child or not. I see someone harming a child in my presence, I will destroy that person. Somethings cannot be excused and harming a child is at the top of that list.
I wouldn’t vote to convict any of these parents if I were on the jury.
The pimped daughter’s parents, because the law would not help them. They went to the law. The law didn’t care that their daughter was being pimped out. Even if it had, what would the pimp had to do if he were caught, tried and convicted? Two months? There is no justice.
The raped five year old’s parent, for far more reasons. First of all he was defending her as he caught the monster in the act. Secondly there is NO consent on a five year old’s part. But lastly, because there is no justice for child molesters in this country. He may have just been deported. . . or gotten 5 years in prison or something. He should be plain old executed. Until convicted child rapists are executed, I support any parent who kills them. Not politically correct, but that’s the way it is.
When there is no justice, people take justice into their own hands. Our legislators need to remember that. We need to have a sense that justice usually prevails.
Texas law allows use of deadly force when defending a victim against sexual assault and kidnapping both of which applied in the Texas case. It was a simple decision for the Grand Jury:
Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE
a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor’s belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
whoops grabbed the Self Defense instead of
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
There’s some subtleties to this in which we all might agree.
To start with, there are cases of pure vengeance, but critically in those cases, the authorities *acted*, and the criminal was likely to get the full force of the law, but only to the extent of the law, which the parents thought was not enough. The karate guy is an example of this.
In the case of the 17 year old, the parents called on the authorities to act, but importantly, *they did not act*. So this is not pure vengeance, but vigilantism, taking the law into your own hands because the authorities either refuse to, or worse, take the side of the criminal.
Arguments are often made, however, in the gun control debate that *if* there are authorities then people don’t need guns, which is bogus, of course. But that also relates to the father of the 4 year old. If someone is committing a violent felony, *any* person is authorized to use up to and including lethal force to stop them.
That is, authorities are *constrained* to try and *arrest* violent criminals *alive*, even while they are in the middle of committing a crime, if they can; but ordinary people are not so limited. If they kill the criminal, they should have relative immunity from prosecution.
However, this does not mean they can just walk away. The medical examiner must determine that the dead criminal was killed, which *automatically* makes the cause of death “homicide”. And since there is no statute of limitations for homicide, it is necessary to convene a grand jury to see if they will indict the person for killing the criminal.
It *used* to be the case that the grand jury almost *had* to indict the person, so that a criminal jury could acquit them, so they would be protected from prosecution in the future because of double jeopardy. Not so much anymore.
Yes, it’s a messy process, even if it is plain as day that the criminal was committing a violent crime when they were killed.
Well I believe in the law. But if the law fails to protect us and our children—and especially if it PREVENTS us from protecting ourselves and our children—then there is obviously something wrong, and we must protect ourselves.
But I must hasten to say that revenge is wrong. I do not believe in revenge.
But I must hasten to say that revenge is wrong. I do not believe in revenge.
At some point we have to abandon “Uncle Sugar” and protect our kids! 9 mil, shot gun or bear hands. No “never mind!” they are family!
You had better make DAMN SURE someone is guilty first (like catching them in the act), because children lie like dogs nowadays, and will fabricate BS out of whole cloth just to stir trouble.
Anybody see Hatfields & McCoys?
I have no problem taking a perp out, if hes in the midst of the activity. However, it is imperative that it be the justice system carry out the actual justice.
We no longer have a justice system. We have a legal system. If we had a justice system there would be weekly executions in almost every state in the union.
You can also bet your bottom dollar that every last kid on that school bus is DENYING that they had ANYTHING to do with abusing that poor bus monitor.
Oh wait, this is a father asking his child to avenge him. The original post was the other way around. My bad.
Its one thing to kill someone in self-defense or in defense of another while the victim is being raped, beaten, or what have you, as in the case of the little girl. Its something else entirely to plan to kill the person who victimized your child and carry out that plan. Thats cold-blooded murder as far as Im concerned and those who do that should go to jail. What would happen to society if every parent went around getting vengeance? I thought vengeance belonged to God.
The problem for the Mercado family is that the daughter didn’t “want” to be “rescued”.
well...that and the fact they weren’t too clever about it...
Shooting at him in the car, with the daughter inside...
“... I would kill an adult I caught molesting a 5 year old girl even if she was no kin of mine”.
You are the reason that I still have hope in this world!
It is NOT “revenge”.
It is a CURE!
Sex without moral contraints does become aggressive and has no qualms with targeting children. Libs want to legalize adult sex with children calling it a ‘child’s right’ and children are easily manipulated by adults who would harm them without thinking twice to please themselves.
So, in the future, a lot of parents are going to be faced with abandoning the sense of responsibility for the well being of their children or killing sexual aggressors who take advantage of their children. It’s going to make Sodom look like a picnic.
If you look at what liberals have done with normal men in their homo brain washing - they made it illegal and shameful to take out homo predators and sexual harassers of normal men. They will do the same thing to parents when they move on to other people’s children.
Retribution, do you believe in retribution?
Finally. My kind of man. I have said all along that the college kid at Penn State should have cold-cocked the coach when he found him in the shower with a kid. I know I would have.
People say “Well, he DID report it.” BIG DEAL. He should have introduced the coach’s head to the shower tile.
Thanks for posting.
I would be sympathetic toward the parents of the 17 year old girl. They rescued her from a gangster. That she maybe didn’t want to be rescued is neither here nor there. She’s their under-aged daughter; they have a responsibility to get her out of that situation.
The predator would be back after her, and if he couldn’t get her, he would get someone else.
We delegate justice to a professional system, but it is not the property of the system. There are times you have to act, and then face the consequences. They may do time for what they did; that doesn’t mean they should not have acted.
I wouldnt vote to convict any of these parents if I were on the jury.Even though I see some big differences between the two cases, I still agree with you.
Amen,Don,t mess my family.
I didn’t say that it was “revenge”. Frankly, I would have done the same thing.
I didn’t say that it was revenge. Frankly, I would have done the same thing.
You are familiar with the Hatfield/McCoy feud?
You are familiar with the Hatfield/McCoy feud? The Montague/Capulet?
“up to and including lethal force(in extreme circumstances), to protect their children from the wicked individuals out there who would prey on them. “
I think “prey on them” is extreme enough to warrant lethal force. We used to hang pedophiles and rapists, now we give then 18 months in prison and lifetime therapy.
Have you tried decaf?
Except that story took place in Louisiana.
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