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Conservative “expert” purists have to recognize people are voting AGAINST Obama not FOR Romney ^ | Juky 5, 2012 | Kevin "Coach" Collins

Posted on 07/05/2012 10:40:20 AM PDT by jmaroneps37

The Drudge Report carries a picture of Mitt Romney jet skiing with his wife – “Oh no that’s it Barack Obama will cruise to reelection because all is lost!”

A few people, who we’ve heard of, have declared Romney’s campaign virtually dead because THEY don’t like his response to the two worst decisions from the Supreme Court.

These comments are, of course well meaning, but they remind us of the wide gap between grass roots activist TEA party conservative voters and conservative “leaders” who now want to run in front of the parade to appear to be relevant.

There is a huge surge of enthusiasm to get rid of Barack Obama that is happening in the streets and on conservative internet “meeting places” that will flush Barack Obama away in November. How can these “experts” not know this?

In my small but reliable poll 66% my overwhelmingly conservative readers said they were voting AGAINST Barack Obama and just 24% said they were voting FOR Mitt Romney! The large national polls won’t ask this question but that doesn’t alter the truth.

Our “expert” conservative leaders don’t yet understand that not only will conservative voters crawl through broken glass to vote against Obama, BUT more to the point, legions of Americans, especially White voters, who just desperately want Obama gone will see “ROMNEY” as the name on the toilet bowl handle that must be pulled down to flush away Barack Obama – America’s foulest mistake.

Over the past two years Obama’s nationally televised speeches have drawn fewer and fewer listeners. This is because Americans don’t care what he has to say, they want him gone.

Regardless of what he has done, Obama has not gotten ANY lasting “poll bounce” because Americans don’t care what he does, they want…..

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Government; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: gotterdammerung; romney
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To: so_real

I never said that Romney was Kai-shek. You’re the one who said that.

So show me Romney’s murders. Show me his lawlessness and his trampling of the rules and laws governing the powers he has. Show me how he is every bit as bad as Obama. Show me how Romney has done everything in his power to destroy the US economy and all the checks and balances of American government. Show me how Romney supports the Muslim agenda in the US and in the world. Show me the terrorists that Romney socializes with and would install in his regime with unbound, unconstitutional power.

Anybody who thinks that Romney is just as bad as Obama is smoking more than ham. IMHO

151 posted on 07/05/2012 3:25:32 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Linda Frances

Those are political issues and I don’t agree with Romney on them. On those points Obama and Romney may be equal.

But show me where Romney violated the law and the checks and balances to his power. Show me his pile of dead bodies. Show me the terrorists he pals around with. Show me the list of crimes he’s committed, such as forgery, fraud, perjury, bribery, and libel. What serious criminal investigations have been made into his conduct? Has he ever insulted America’s allies? What is his great plan to deliberately destroy the US economy?

152 posted on 07/05/2012 3:33:49 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Linda Frances
Romney                                                     Obama
pro abortion                                                 pro abortion
pro gay marriage                                        pro gay marriage
pro gay adoption                                          ? 
pro cap and trade                                       pro cap and trade
pro tarp                                                           pro tarp
pro gun control                                             pro gun control 
pro amnesty                                                   pro amnesty
pro raising taxes                                          pro raising taxes
socialized heathcare                                   socialized heathcare
believer in global warming                          believer in global warming
Has not yet effed the USA                          Has already effed the USA
153 posted on 07/05/2012 3:34:55 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: butterdezillion

And what happens in April of 2013 (for instance) when Soros makes a run on the bank, Obama declares martial law, and all the Hezbollah operatives poison every state with the bubonic plague so the Islamists can take over the state capitals and Washington DC?

This could happen if Abraham Lincoln was president. If it did, I will be glad I did not vote for someone who stands against God. Don’t let your fears overcome you. If you are a Christian walking with Him, you know He is in control. He allows us to have good and bad leaders for a purpose. That does not mean we should enable or elect bad ones. God knows every hair on your head, trust Him and do what is right in HIS eyes. We all will die one day. If we believe in Him, trusted Him, walked with Him, it will be okay.

The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, it is conformity.
Anthony Roberts

154 posted on 07/05/2012 3:39:30 PM PDT by Linda Frances (Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness)
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To: BornToBeAmerican
Hmm, a businessman just like all the other businessmen ~ one after another ~ all same-same?
155 posted on 07/05/2012 3:42:12 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: butterdezillion
If the Soros communist-Islamist coup gets an Islamist regime under sharia installed within the next 4 years, what will it do to your hopes of getting Scott Walker elected in 2016?

Of all the wild conspiracies, that is the most absurd and unlikely I have heard of. Sharia isn't happening. Liberals don't want that.

But, if Obama wants to try a coup, let him. Let's have a civil war that removes him and thins out the heard of liberals.

156 posted on 07/05/2012 3:47:41 PM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: Starstruck

I was so convinced Ken Star had the goods on Clinton

I did too...

I couldnt understand why he didnt go in for the kill...

157 posted on 07/05/2012 4:12:50 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: Kazan
Conspiracy? Hardly. We've had a number of judges fall into the trap of using Sharia in civil cases. However, in Indiana we had a fellow who'd been the chief counsel for the prisoners at GITMO for 8 years get appointed to the Indiana Supreme Court.

What happened in one case was amazing and required the legislature to attempt to prepare the damage. Basically a domestic case came up and the Mr., who was moving out, interfered with the cops answering the Mrs.' 911 call.

Folks who thought this was an improper arrest might read up on which is a lengthy discussion and compendium of legislation relating to 911 calls.

Anyway, an arrest was made, a trial held, and next thing you know the guy's lawyer has this thing up at the Supreme Court. There the fellow from GITMO found himself in the majority ~ which majority necessarily IGNORED the fact the MR. had actually interfered in a 911 call ~ but, taking things in stride, the judge wrote the majority decision ~ and the Mr. won his point. He got a retrial.

The court, to arrive at the conclusion they did would necessarily have to discount the rights of the Mrs. ~ and in Islamic codes (to wit: the Sharia Law) the testimony of a woman is weighed as half that of a man.

Eventually this was approached as a 4th amendment case, the legislature passed its magic wand on whether or not you can shoot a cop in your home, and all was forgiven.

Still, the woman's right to a 911 call was clearly violated ~ which made further police involvement in dealing with that call completely lawful.

The judge is still on the job ready, willing and able to write more decisions that discount the rights of women! Only a matter of time until he decides Christians and Jews have no rights under the law.

So, yeah, a conspiracy ~ or a reality?

158 posted on 07/05/2012 4:18:52 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: butterdezillion

Anybody who thinks that Romney is just as bad as Obama is smoking more than ham.

No, you are correct; in your analogy Romney is not as bad as Obama. Hitler killed about 21 million people. Kai-shek only killed about 10 million people. Kai-shek is only half as bad as Hitler, right? Obama is twice as bad as Romney, right? I get it, but your argument is a relativistic one. No matter how you look at it, you are still voting *for* "bad". If we stop doing that and vote *for* "good" instead, we can actually make progress instead of sliding further down the slippery slope. As for the trouble with Romney, well that was pretty well covered in post 150. I could add to it. I could talk about Romney's fetus disposal facility affiliation, for example (click). But it's hardly worth it. If you want to vote for bad because you are afraid of worse, it's your right. I'm going to take a chance and for Goode. My conscious will be clean and I won't have to defend my vote before my Maker. May He grant me peace of mind and strength to defend myself and my loved ones against whichever baby-killing, gun-grabbing, bailout-providing, amnesty-granting, homosexual-advocating, healthcare-ransoming, stimulus-providing presidential candidate defeats Virgil Goode.

159 posted on 07/05/2012 4:19:35 PM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: scbison
he doesn’t [do] what we want, we primary him....

And they call US names for objecting to Mitt. You Party Over Principle guys crack me up.

160 posted on 07/05/2012 4:30:04 PM PDT by j_tull (Massachusetts once lead the American Revolution. Under Mitt Romney, it lead the demise.)
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To: j_tull; T O
Repubicans start the contest 10,000,000 votes below the Democrats.

If they really want to win the GOP-e has to kow-tow to all the major factions ~

For what I judge to be bizarre reasoning the Mittbots imagine they can win an election against Obama when they have rejected tens of millions of Republicans.

This is so utterly stupid I'm forced to believe we've been taken over by nothing but coke snorting automobile salesmen.

161 posted on 07/05/2012 4:42:00 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: j_tull; T O
Repubicans start the contest 10,000,000 votes below the Democrats.

If they really want to win the GOP-e has to kow-tow to all the major factions ~

For what I judge to be bizarre reasoning the Mittbots imagine they can win an election against Obama when they have rejected tens of millions of Republicans.

This is so utterly stupid I'm forced to believe we've been taken over by nothing but coke snorting automobile salesmen.

162 posted on 07/05/2012 4:42:13 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: PoliticalArsonist

Romney would be the last man to post bond that he’d keep his word on anything.

163 posted on 07/05/2012 4:46:25 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: mnehring
One more time ~ there were only 3 lifelong Conservative Republicans in the race. There were 13 other candidates registered with the RNC who were either party converts, democrat donors, actually members of other parties, democrat campaign workers and organizers, etc.

NO, the Conservative vote wasn't split ~ it was drowned out in a sea of non-Conservative non-Republican clown acts.

Romney held on to his same old 20% (that I assume he bought somewhere) ~ which made him look better than he really was.

You strip out the outsiders, the three Conservative Republicans would have all looked great!

164 posted on 07/05/2012 4:52:52 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Kazan

Obama told the Egyptian ambassador in January of 2010 that he supports the Muslim agenda (and the agenda which all sects of Islam agree on is the destruction of the US and Israel and the institution of worldwide sharia)

George Soros has said that he is afraid the US will win the “war on terror” because then the US and capitalism will be strong. Soros believes that he, as God, has to wipe out America and capitalism, the 2 great evils in the world. And he apparently would rather have terrorism than America.

Muslims are exempt from Obamacare. This means that “infidels” will be taxed and Muslims will not. Shortly after the 2008 run on the bank, AIG started a “shared health ministry” that would allow Muslims to pitch in their required tithes towards a sort of Muslim collective health reimbursement account, which is compliant with sharia and now allows Muslims to not have insurance of any kind, presumably not spend any more than they would spend on tithing, and yet be eligible to be exempt from Obamacare even while collecting social security. The groundwork that allows Muslims to not be “taxed” even while dhimmis are taxed - which is what sharia calls for - was laid immediately after the Sept 2008 run on the bank. And in fact, the week after the run on the bank, Paulson and Bernanke were busy doing seminars on..... sharia-compliant financing.

So far two rulings in Obama’s eligibility trials have resulted in rulings based on “judge’s knowledge” - which is a trick of sharia, where evidence is not required in order for a ruling to be made. A judge is able to rule based on his own thoughts/wishes - sort of like executive orders by the king/president.

The Muslim Brotherhood has unprecedented access to Obama’s White House.

The New Black Panthers, Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, and Mexican drug cartels are all allies against America. Eric Holder supports and protects all of them from any investigations. Eric Holder is deliberately keeping our southern border unprotected, even while knowing that the drug cartels are working with Muslim terrorists to get into the country. Hezbollah operatives were flown from Iran in direct unchecked flights to Venezuela, providing a large, large number of terrorists to work their way upwards through our soft southern underbelly - perhaps armed with WMD’s from Syria. We know that Chavez is an ally of Iran - who has agreed to allow Iran to use Venezuela for missile launching, which gives them easy access to attack the US using the missile launch capabilities they already have. Iran has been testing the kind of launch necessary for an EMP attack, which would bring the US to a halt and kill what the US government has estimated to be millions of people within the first 6 months.

Major Nidal Hasan killed a bunch of military people at Fort Bragg while shouting “Allahu Akbar!” He was immediately protected legally and the jihadist killings were labeled “workplace violence”. After seeing the legal response to Hasan, a black Muslim convert in Arkansas decided that was the way to go and killed a military recruiter in Arkansas. Right around the same time, FBI informants leaked that Holder had told law enforcement agencies to not investigate Black Muslim converts.

If you have any doubts about liberals’ stance on sharia, try to find liberals who are speaking out against the atrocities of sharia all over the world. Good luck with that.

About a week after the Sept 2008 run on the bank GW Bush suddenly decided to give a speech to the country saying that if we didn’t pass TARP the world as we know it would end. Capitalism would end. Within a very short time after that, communists Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez were saying, “Since capitalism has failed the world should try communism”. Islamists Ahmadinejad and Zawahiri were saying, “Since capitalism has failed the world should try sharia-compliant Islamic finance”. The IMF was meeting in Europe to decide what to do, now that “capitalism had failed”...

We know that George Soros had asked both Hillary and Obama during the 2008 primary if they were on-board with his plans to destroy the US economy (Obama was). And intelligence sources in the Mideast (Egypt?) were hearing in 2007 that there was an imminent act of economic terrorism that was going to be launched by world Muslims against the US. A Freeper happened to be up late and saw an article which said the Sept 2008 run on the bank began in Indonesia. By morning the article was scrubbed.

There is much, much more that I could say. I don’t usually suggest a theory unless I’ve got quite a bit of evidence that factors into my thinking. The trouble is trying to get it all down in one place so others can see it at once.

If Obama tries a coup following either an economic run on the bank or an Iranian EMP attack, he would have Hezbollah operatives all over the country who would do the dirty work for him; he has always stood with the Muslims against America. And if those direct unchecked flights from Iran to Venezuela included WMD’s, then the coup that Obama could stage would be beyond our ability to fight with guns. Bear in mind that Obama is in control of all the medicines and who can get them. Also keep in mind that sources within the DHS have said that the government is arming and preparing for a civil war bloodbath.

So mock if you like, but there are good reasons for anybody who loves this land and/or its people to be very, very concerned. The prevalence of Hezbollah in the US as well as the infiltration of the military by Muslim jihadists have all been in the news because Rep (Peter?) King has spoken out about the alarming signs he sees. Allen West just recently alluded to the training materials found when terrorists were caught, saying that the Muslim plan was to infiltrate and destroy the US from within.

There’s a particular progression that is prescribed for the institution of sharia. Everything Obama has done has advanced that progression, so that countries with majority Muslim populations have had coups wherein the sharia-supporting parties (Muslim Brotherhood and the salafists, primarily) have taken power - and specifically have overthrown the regimes which were allies of the US in the war on terror (Egypt, Libya, etc). Obama is openly supporting talks with the Taliban and other terrorist organizations under the claim that if these groups have their own countries to rule they won’t terrorize the rest of the world. Using that logic he is helping to install terrorists in other countries such as Afghanistan.

Everything Obama has done has been against our own troops and in support of the terrorists who seek to do them harm - for instance, with the Koran burning episode (where Obama refused to point out that the Korans had been desecrated by prisoners and that sharia requires desecrated Korans to be burned), with the refusal to allow discovery of the witnesses to the alleged killing spree by the soldier in Afghanistan (on his third deployment after experiencing a brain injury on his latest tour of duty).

The moves being made by Muslims in the US are to force everybody else to accommodate their religious preferences. I say “preferences” because Islam allows its adherents to live comfortably within the society when they are a small percentage of the population. For instance, if there’s nothing to eat but pork, pork is fine. If they are not able to stop working to do their mandatory prayers, that’s fine. But when they reach a certain percentage of the population, then they have to start pushing for concessions to sharia, with the goal of weaseling their way into full sharia eventually, using court precedents and “cultural acceptance” propaganda. I believe it is when Muslims are 10% of the population they are required to push for sharia, with the first concessions starting at around 8%. And that is what we are seeing in the US right now. Pushing for those concessions is a signal that it is time for the people to push for sharia, which requires them to be enemies of the US Constitution which guarantees religious freedom. Whenever you see that a Muslim has sued a company to be allowed to wear a hijab, or to not have to scan pork in the grocery check-out, etc... that is a signal that American Muslims believe they are at the percentage to begin the push for sharia.

Hopefully you realize that Christians quietly holding signs at an Arab festival in Dearborn, MI were stoned by Muslims in the crowd while police watched without doing anything. The free speech rights of Christians are constantly being violated so that Muslims do not have to see anything against them.

A Muslim convert was elected to a judgeship in PA after claiming to be both republican and democrat, but running on his previous service in the military in the Middle East. In a case where a Muslim man attacked an atheist who was holding a sign ridiculing Islam, the Muslim-convert judge ruled that the atheist had it coming to him because in the country the Muslim man was from the atheist could be stoned to death for ridiculing Mohammed. The judge said he would jail the atheist if he exposed to the world what the judge had just ruled.

My church body deals with refugees from Muslim countries. Christians from Somalia have especially expressed concern that if America doesn’t get wise to how the Islamists function, America will fall VERY QUICKLY. They have seen the progression and are afraid of what is imminent in America.

I can vaguely remember some Islamist groups talking about Arab Spring happening in America. I don’t know the details on that, but I think Glenn Beck has talked about that some too.

I’m also hoping that you are aware of the number of beheadings and “honor killings” in the US. The pattern with that can be seen in Britain, where Muslims gather in enclaves and then they petition the government to have law enforcement that is “culturally sensitive”. So law enforcement is trained to intercept women who are fleeing their families who intend to “honor kill” them, return those women to their families, and tell the man of the house that the daughter/wife/sister ran away from home. What often happens is that the woman either commits suicide or is found dead at the hands of her family. That’s the pattern seen in Britain, and we see that already in places like Dearborn, MI. The whole “cultural sensitivity” thing is geared towards setting precedents for sharia.

But the “honor killings”, beheadings, and such are becoming more common all over the country. Particularly in the south, the Mexican drug cartels have admired the terror created after the beheading video of Daniel Pearl and have since patterned their methods of terror after the Muslim terrorists. That’s why we are seeing groups of people beheaded, gutted, hanged from a bridge, buried in shallow graves en masse, etc.

Several years ago there was basically a “dry run” where some imams in Minneapolis were shouting “death to America!”, took the seats next to the exits rather than their assigned seats, asked for seat belt extenders and then set them on the ground, etc. Passengers reported the behavior, terrorized, and the imams were escorted off the plane, detained, and eventually let go. Within hours, media reports surfaced about these imams who had been discriminated against simply for “praying”. It was only because passengers went on talk radio shows and described what really happened that anybody knew the truth. The Muslims (I think maybe using CAIR) sued the airline AND THE PASSENGERS WHO REPORTED THE THREATENING BEHAVIOR for discrimination, in an attempt to set precedent where anybody who would report suspicious behavior would be subjected to civil lawsuits that would bankrupt them. In that way the Arab money could be used to intimidate normal Americans by the threat of bankrupting lawsuits. Congress eventually passed a law protecting people who report suspicious behavior, but the attempt to call “racist” anybody who reports suspicious behavior is one way of softening the resistance to sharia maneuvers.

And we can see the effect of that regarding Black Muslims such as the New Black Panthers. Just notice how the New Black Panthers had a bounty on the head of George Zimmerman and law enforcement all looked the other way. Look at all the beatings of whites by Blacks - some of them Black Supremacists such as the Yahwah bin Yahweh cult (which practices sub-Saharan supremacy such as that taught to Chicago teachers by the Chicago Annenberg Challenge as forced by Bill Ayers and Barack Obama). The “cultural”/racist charges are meant to disable people from resisting the violence of these groups. And Muslims have a very, very active recruitment program within the prisons. Particularly in Detroit and Chicago there was heavy recruitment for Islam, the Nation of Islam, and the Black Panthers.

This is just stuff off the top of my head, that I remember. There is much, much more. People need to be made aware of this. This stuff is not “vast conspiracy” type stuff. This is what our enemies have done elsewhere and have said straight-out that they plan to do. I’m not sure why it’s considered so radical to simply believe our enemies when they say they are at war with us - especially when they have demonstrated these same tactics over and over again.

165 posted on 07/05/2012 5:04:18 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: so_real

Politically Romney may be every bit as bad as Obama. But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about crimes. I’m talking about destroying the basic checks and balances of the system. I’m talking about trying to deliberately destroy the US economy.

I get the feeling that you really don’t know how much Obama has killed the system. Politics is stuff that goes back and forth. We can live with politics because as long as we have the checks and balances we can correct bad politics. But if the system itself is compromised there is no way to correct it except by revolution.

Do you acknowledge that there is a difference between a politician who agrees with all the wrong things, and a saboteur/enemy combatant who disables and dismantles the whole system of accountability and the rule of law?

Nothing you’ve said about Romney shows me a Hitler who grabs for himself the power to decide who lives and dies, and makes laws all on his own, takes over all the media for his own propaganda purposes, takes over all manufacturing for his own agenda, etc.

Everything Obama has ever done shows a guy who is systematically dismantling everything that America is - specifically the means of accountability that keeps absolute power from ever happening and absolutely corrupting. That is the secret ingredient for American exceptionalism, and Obama has gone after it as after the jugular that keeps America alive.

That is what I’m talking about.

166 posted on 07/05/2012 5:12:55 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: EternalVigilance

Okay. Sure. And this will happen overnight? Before or after Obama is reelected?

167 posted on 07/05/2012 5:40:51 PM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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To: EternalVigilance

“By the way, it is the socialists who are splitting their votes in this election.”

They always do. It’s just more evident this time. I just believe that there will be something to fight for and a way to do it if Romney elected over Obama.

168 posted on 07/05/2012 5:48:20 PM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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To: muawiyah

“Romney would be the last man to post bond that he’d keep his word on anything.”

Can you point to anything that I posted that even remotely sounds like I like or trust Romney? The biggest gain I see is that we eliminate the race card even if we pick up the religious bigot card. That will not be as effective in silencing Romney’s critics as the race card is in silencing Obama’s.

169 posted on 07/05/2012 5:52:36 PM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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To: butterdezillion

I learned yesterday that some of Romney’s wealth was amassed trafficking in the bodies of innocent little boys and girls murdered in abortion mills. As far as I am concerned, Romney’s Stericycle “business” not only makes him unfit for high office, but unworthy of any respect by any respectable member of our national community. Is it any surprise that Romney feels the need to hide his bloodstained money in secret accounts all over the globe?

My primary goal this election year is to help defeat Romney. Nothing will give me greater satisfaction than to see Mitt Romney repudiated by the American people.

170 posted on 07/05/2012 6:01:10 PM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: PoliticalArsonist
There is no race card. There might have been but only in the minds of people who suffer from white liberal guilt.

I don't have that problem.

171 posted on 07/05/2012 6:07:13 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: jmaroneps37

In 2016, if Romney lost 2012 because we all decided to not vote for him based on the demonstrable truth that he is a poop sandwich of a nominee, two realities will be extant:

1. We will be dead right.

Those will be the two extant realities.

Please spare me the obvious sarcastic cliche comments (they are predictable) when I ask: “If you could replace FDR in his second term with Romney, would you?” Anyone who thinks that would not have changed (actually avoided) much of the changes in America over the next 3 terms in fundamental, structural, irreversible ways, is just not thinking clearly. Feet not here on earth, where the voting booths have no ‘against’ lever.

172 posted on 07/05/2012 6:36:30 PM PDT by skeama (On what day did God create Barack Obama, and couldn't He have rested on that day.)
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To: PoliticalArsonist; All

I cannot help but witness an hysterical contradiction that no one seems willing to acknowledge.

If everyone here is in agreement that the Ruling Class and this regime in power is lawless, UnConstitutional and absolutely unchained from the rule of law - why do so many of you put faith in the legitimacy of the ballot box this November?

Do you people really believe that Cook County has not gone national? You folks really think and believe that voting for Romney stops America from bleeding out from what Obama and the MarxoFascists putting their moves on the West have already inflicted on us????

I cannot believe the cognitive dissonance I’m seeing even HERE. Are people really so ignorant of history and what happens when the extinct republics before us reached this same point??

Few of you seem to have noticed that Romney was chosen and foisted on us by the Ruling Class oligarchs in power. Preferred nominee of both the MarxoFascist media AND their Dear Leader. We’ve gone Soviet and yet everyone deceives themselves and enjoys being deceived that somehow - we have to hope in the elections in November, expecting the rules will be followed and the votes counted in an an honest fashion.

Despite the fact we have become a deceived and willing to be deceived people, I marvel at the near-religious insistence that the integrity of our institution of voting somehow is not corrupted and that those in power will honor the will of the people who want Obama gone.

Even if Obama himself declares the elections suspended or null and void - we won’t do a damned thing about it. But if given the appearance of legitimacy and a choice - few will even raise an eyebrow and go along with what everyone understands is a corrupted process and institution.

All experience has shown men are willing to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than right themselves by abolishing the forms on which they have become accustomed.

This people have become accustomed to tyranny and deceit, and if the discourse is evidence, then they willing to suffer it and put vain hope in men and corrupted institutions of men to relieve them.

We’re doomed to suffer the consequences because too few are able or willing to think ahead and past what we have become accustomed and the thoughts too terrible to risk.

173 posted on 07/05/2012 8:16:38 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: muawiyah

I am referring to the democrats use of the race card whenever Obama is criticized. Romney can be criticized without fear of being called racist.

Now is the time to remove Obama, we can deal with Romney later.

174 posted on 07/05/2012 8:17:48 PM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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To: PoliticalArsonist

Why half a loaf when there’s still a chance we can get rid of both these guys and their advisors.

175 posted on 07/05/2012 8:19:55 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Who? Which candidate can win?

176 posted on 07/05/2012 8:23:38 PM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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To: muawiyah

Who? Which candidate can win the GOP nomination or win in a 3 way race against Romney and Obama?

177 posted on 07/05/2012 8:24:48 PM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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To: butterdezillion

But if the system itself is compromised there is no way to correct it except by revolution.

"When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

Do you acknowledge that there is a difference between a politician who agrees with all the wrong things, and a saboteur/enemy combatant who disables and dismantles the whole system of accountability and the rule of law?

Certainly ... one erodes our rights out of ignorance, the other erodes our rights out of wickedness. Regardless of which is our adversary, at the end of the day, our rights are eroded. As such you would do well to avoid saboteurs and politicians alike and elect instead a statesman.

Nothing you’ve said about Romney shows me a Hitler who grabs for himself the power to decide who lives and dies

No, Romney isn't a Hitler in your analogy; he's a Chiang Kai-shek -- only half as bad as Hitler. Romney implemented what has become Obamacare in his home state before Obama was even elected. Certainly he has grabbed the power to decide who lives and dies. It's now a committee decision in Massachusetts. If I recall correctly, you can kill your own unborn child for $50 under Romney's "leadership". And, Romney made a coin or two disposing of the fetuses to boot. Perhaps you don't know how despicable Romney is.

178 posted on 07/05/2012 8:26:45 PM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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Please answer the questions posed at #177.

Both the R and the D candidates are a threat to our liberty. I’ve never argued otherwise. The difference is Obama is a RIGHT NOW problem and Romney is the NEXT problem. Both must be dealt with but lets keep our priorities straight. Unless, that is, you have a plan that the rest of us do not know about.

179 posted on 07/05/2012 8:29:08 PM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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To: so_real

I don’t like the Romneycare. I don’t like abortion or the disposal of dead babies’ bodies.

But where has Romney said that he can assassinate whoever he wants? When has Romney watched the video of assassinations he ordered, with pornographic thrill, over and over again? Where are the dead bodies of the people that he and/or his machine have killed because they oppose him politically? Tell me the laws he’s broken and the criminal investigations into his actions. What terrorists has he kept close company with? What is his specific plan to destroy the US economy? Which of his puppet-masters has publicly said that they are God and need to destroy America and capitalism? What judge’s order has he disobeyed? What laws has he decided would not be defended in court? When has he committed acts of war against another country? When has he alienated our allies and negotiated with terrorists? When has he threatened to grab an internet kill switch? When has he called small-government people and pro-lifers terrorists?

When you compare Hitler and Chiang Kai-Shek you say the one is half as bad as the other because he only murdered half as many as the other. That is totally different than what we’re talking about here. Except for allowing others to murder through abortion, Romney has not murdered or had his hit-men murder others for him; Obama has. Romney has not taken the entire media for his own propaganda purposes through threats; Obama has. Romney has not put weapons in the hands of criminals specifically so that innocents would be killed for a political agenda; Obama has.

Romney is NOT doing the same things as Obama; not even close. I don’t like Romney’s politics, but Romney does keep it to the level of politics, and NOT to the level of murderous control over everything with the intention of destroying the country.

Hitler and Kia-shek were both murderers and only differed in the number that ended up dead. Obama’s handlers are murderers, but I have yet to hear of anybody that Romney or his handlers have murdered. Hitler and Kai-shek decimated their opponents and seized absolute control, but when has Romney used state agencies to harass his opponents? When has he put his enemies on a terrorist watch list? When has he stolen money from his enemies and given it to his friends by using his governmental power?

Romney’s bad side is nowhere close to the same league as Obama’s.

180 posted on 07/05/2012 9:45:26 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: PoliticalArsonist

I’ll be plain, there IS NO solution to the consequences we are going to reap by what has been foisted upon us. Consequences for various tyrannies and aberrations that we have accepted and accommodated as a culture. ESPECIALLY by voting institutionally in whom the Ruling Class have taken over and established as a shell game to keep We The People complacent and fooled into thinking we have any real choice at all.

To persuade people to vote for the weak nominee in the GOP post-Reagan, I used to use the analogy of being in an alley and confronted by three thugs who sought to rob you. I suggested taking out the biggest and nearest threat to you being of primacy if you wanted to survive the mugging and fight another day as an argument to vote for Bush I, Dole, Bush II and McCain.

The fruits are self-evident that such an argument was anathema to principle and incorrect, same as applying the same analogy to getting rid of the threat of Obama.

The deal is, we are not dealing with random thugs - we’re dealing with a gang that has taken over the Alley. Aldermen in the party convince us that they have the guy to clean up the alley - except the guy is part of the gang and chosen by the gang’s leadership to ensure that their grip on power, remains. The unspoken fact is everyone knows he reps the gang, but they are willing to go along with it because they like the illusion of having a choice.

The truth is, to avoid being killed by the thugs in the alley - don’t be in the alley, and you don’t play by the gang’s rules.

Thinking your vote for Romney will stop Obama and what he has already done and will do, is as wasted a hope and folly as it was when Dickerson and the Quakers insisted that prostrating before the king and parliament again and again was going to change the tyranny they were being subjected to.

The difference is that our Founders understood exactly where they were in time and that playing the game the king and parliament continued to foist upon them was nothing more than calling their chains, jewelry.

The plan at the time, was to cease playing the game that the Crown made the rules for.

They refused to comply.

They resisted.

And when the Crown made their last mistake and came against them by force - the plan was - to resist and probably die trying to throw off the evils upon which they had grown accustomed and were no longer will willing to suffer in the effort to secure new guards for their liberties.

I reflect on what John Adams wrote to his wife Abigail regarding the fact that “liberty lost, is lost forever”. We may be at a time when it is no longer about many of the liberties we have already lost - it may be about saving our very lives before even that right is taken from us.

Voting for the gang’s chosen nominee is choosing to take a walk in their alley and pretending it’s going to make a difference.

They do not call it a machine for nothing.

181 posted on 07/05/2012 9:54:37 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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Well said. I don't think I can improve on your analysis. Voting for Romney and Republicans in general will not change anything and make no mistake they won't change much of anything.
If the Republicans got control they would not repeal Obamacare or anything else that has happened.
The House could have shown something when all those Tea Party types were elected but as you have opined the same old gang called the shots and nothing was done on the Debt and Deficit.
182 posted on 07/05/2012 10:01:07 PM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
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To: butterdezillion

The War was really lost in November of 1932, we have been on the downward spiral sense then.
Obama is just the last nail in the coffin for this country.

183 posted on 07/05/2012 10:05:00 PM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
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To: PoliticalArsonist
Romney has to step down and quit bothering the Republican party.

He understands this but he still wants to run for President. Someone has to talk him out of the idea before he puts obama back in office for 4 more years.

184 posted on 07/06/2012 1:08:01 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Captain Peter Blood

Well, I guess that’s it then. All that’s left is for us to die.

185 posted on 07/06/2012 4:48:16 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion

Nellie was mentioned on Peter Boyles’ show this morning by Tom Ballantyne.

He was talking about members of the MSM and said he could name housewives who are brilliant on this issue such as Nellie ... (didn’t catch your last name).

186 posted on 07/06/2012 6:50:06 AM PDT by JohnnyP
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To: butterdezillion

Romney’s bad side is nowhere close to the same league as Obama’s.

If you say so. My point is, simply, that by your measuring stick comparatively and relativistically speaking, Virgil Goode has no "bad" side at all. So, I'm going to support him instead, and feel "good" about it.

187 posted on 07/06/2012 7:12:22 AM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: butterdezillion
There is hope. It's going to take a collapse or default for us to have any hope of getting back to reality.
Our politicians are not going to do anything.
The biggest issue out there that none of those in Government will talk about is how much government do we want and what can we afford.
I believe we are at the end of the road where Capitalism can pay for all the Progressive Socialist Policies that have been put into place since March, 1933 by the Left.
We are simply out of money and have for the most part squandered the wealth of this country on all of the “Feel Good” programs the Left has foisted upon us.
Obamacare is just the Straw that is going to finally break the back.
The only real “Wealth” left is this country is what the rich have and private pensions, etc.. If the Left were to find a way to seize and spend that money then what?
We are truly at the end game of our Fiat Money system and there just isn't really any more money to be taxed.
Those running for office are not leveling with the public and just don't any will to do what is necessary to put this country back on track.
We are looking at an election where there is just no candidate that offers us any real ideas and plans to fix our problems.
188 posted on 07/06/2012 9:11:59 AM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
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To: muawiyah

Let’s dream.

You and I convince Romney to step aside. Who takes his place?

Waking up from that dream, it Obama v Romney. Do you have a challenger who can take them on and win? Who do we rally around? Is this person anything other than a way to split the vote and reelect Obama?

189 posted on 07/06/2012 9:12:49 AM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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To: PoliticalArsonist
If Romney is not running and someone else is, then nobody but obama is left to split the vote.

The only thing that will be changed is that the Republicans will not be running a loser.

190 posted on 07/06/2012 9:16:59 AM PDT by muawiyah
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Thanks for your honesty.

Now, which gang do you want to face? I believe that every day more Americans are waking to the disaster we face and most of those do not believe Romney is the solution, a savior, or even a conservative. They see him as a way to get rid of Obama and buy time to continue the awakening and putting an end to the most anti America regime in history.

Whatever Romney is, Obama is all that and more and on steroids. Allowing him to retain office will only embolden him to accelerate his agenda to destroy us.

191 posted on 07/06/2012 9:18:57 AM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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To: so_real

I can respect where you’re coming from. A person could feel good about voting for Corrie Ten Boom instead of a less-perfect candidate who had a chance to beat Hitler. But their feelings of self-righteousness came at the cost of the millions of people who died under Hitler who would not have died if the less-perfect-than-Corrie-Ten-Boom candidate had won.

In the end everybody has to follow their conscience, and I don’t begrudge you your conscience. I understand where you’re coming from.

I do believe, though, that what is to compel us even more than desire for our own righteousness (which Christ has already won for us) is love. If I give up everything I have and keep myself pure from all compromise but have not love, I am nothing. If I knew that a vote for Corrie Ten Boom would mean that millions of innocent people would be starved and buried either dead or alive in mass graves, love would compel me to vote for someone who could instead prevent those senseless deaths. To vote for Corrie Ten Boom when she had no chance of winning rather than voting for the one who realistically COULD prevent the Holocaust from happening would almost be like the priest or the Levite walking on the other side of the road - staying nice and pure themselves rather than dirtying their own feelings of righteousness to help the Samaritan left for dead on the other side of the road.

It’s a matter of conscience, and everybody has their own conscience. I wish you well and don’t need to speak with you any more on this. You know what my conscience is telling me and why, and what you come up with between you and God is for you to work out.

This thread is the first time I’ve spoken out in detail about the philosophy of voting for somebody besides Romney as a protest against Romney and the establishment, because I understand the angst that provokes the philosophy. But when I hear people implying that it is un-Christian, unpatriotic, or unwise to vote for Romney in this situation, I have to speak out.

If Christians as a bloc voted for Corrie Ten Boom they could have prevented the Holocaust without having to vote for a severely flawed candidate to beat Hitler. But the time in America’s election when that had to happen was during the primaries, and it didn’t happen. If it didn’t happen then, it’s not going to happen in the general either. That option already failed. So at this point we have the choice between the Holocaust, or not the Holocaust. And I have strong reservations about Christians voting to allow the Holocaust because they could at least feel personally innocent while they watch their neighbors starved, experimented on, tortured, and thrown in a mass grave. My need to feel righteous is already met by Christ’s sacrifice for my sin; I don’t need millions of people to die in order for me to feel holy.

And I realize that’s not the motivation behind what you’re doing. You want to do the right thing, and can’t believe that voting for a corrupt, pro-abortion, greedy politician who takes the name of “conservative” in vain could ever be either justified, wise, or loving. Like I said, that’s a matter for your conscience. But please do weigh the evil (that you think voting for him would be) against the evil of what will happen if Obama is given a totally unaccountable signed blank check for 4 more years. If he does this when the tree is green, what will he do when the tree is dry?

192 posted on 07/06/2012 9:21:50 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: muawiyah

Does that mean that you will support anyone who replaces Romney? And you want Romney to step aside? Good luck with that. I can’t even call that a plan. It sounds like more hope and change.


193 posted on 07/06/2012 9:27:41 AM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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To: PoliticalArsonist
Here's your problem. Romney can't win. Someone other than Romney can win. Unless Romney drops out now Obama wins.

If you support Romney you are pulling for an Obama victory.

194 posted on 07/06/2012 9:45:55 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: PoliticalArsonist

Amen..Oust Obama

195 posted on 07/06/2012 9:52:30 AM PDT by MEG33 (O Lord, Guide Our Nation)
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To: muawiyah

I would love to see Romney traded in for a more conservative candidate. If that could happen I’d be the first one to support the newly-chosen candidate. It would only happen through an act of God though. Romney has raised millions of dollars for this race and he’s got the votes at the convention to win the nomination. The establishment has cheated to get him to this point and they would probably kill us all before they would let somebody else in.

As it is, I believe the only thing that would keep Romney from winning (if the election is allowed to happen and is not stolen by fraud) is if conservatives choose to vote for somebody else as a protest vote. That’s what conservatives did in the primary too; unable to agree together on a conservative to defeat Romney and loudly speaking out about how they would never support a candidate other than their favorite, we ended up with Romney as the candidate.

If we do the same thing in the general, we’re going to get the same result: refusing to agree together on a non-foreign-enemy-combatant candidate, we’ll end up getting a foreign enemy combatant in the White House for another 4 years. All in the name of being smart, pure “conservatives”.

I’m just saying that if we opt to do that because it will give us a greater chance of winning in 2016, we’re putting all our eggs in the basket of hope that Obama will not be in a final, unaccountable term of office the foreign enemy combatant (out to destroy America and very, very effective at it) that he already demonstrated himself to be in the first term (when he still had to try to appear “moderate”).

I’m saying that Obama will bleed us out to death LONG BEFORE 2016 ever gets here, so if we’re thinking to save ourselves from dying of cancer by setting the stage for a real conservative to be elected in 2016, we’re really just deciding to bleed out on the floor in 2013 - which totally blows the great plans for a 2016 cure to America’s problems. There’s no cure left once you’re dead.

196 posted on 07/06/2012 10:11:33 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: JohnnyP

Tom is such an encouragement. I’m so honored to be his friend and humbled by his respect.

197 posted on 07/06/2012 10:13:44 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: PoliticalArsonist

I am WAY beyond November in mindset.

It is however disconcerting to understand just how many put their faith and trust in November, that somehow enough of their fellow citizens will do the right thing and that the rule of law and the vote will be handled honestly when all evidence has shown that Cook County has gone national.

Not to mention everyone is stuck voting for a candidate that the Ruling Class itself has chosen as the only viable opposition to Obama. It’s the Soviet model of duping the people into believing they have a choice in selecting the leaders of the oligarchy and few are willing to acknowledge it.

Conservatism has already lost November and as usual is stuck having to settle for what the Vichy Republicans force us to accept.

History is a great teacher, and that is why I’m thinking and planning ahead for what history tells us comes next when republics fall and Marxists achieve the level of power that this regime has. For me, the math is easy - and it does not include putting all my hope that the Ruling Class candidate saves us from Obama when Obama and the machine behind him foisted Romney on us the same as they did Obama.

I’ll vote principle and not expedience knowing what the outcome is likely to be. At least I can give account to God and look myself in the mirror and state I have stopped compromising with sin and ideas anathema to my principles.

198 posted on 07/06/2012 10:39:11 AM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: muawiyah

I argued that in the primary. Now that he is (presumptively) our horse, he has to win. I would love Sarah to be the nominee. I just don’t see her or anyone else getting the nod. I pray that I am wrong but I am talking about reality, not my druthers.

Just as with all the other candidates who were proclaimed to not be able to win, when the choice is where it is now, Romney will pull the votes.

199 posted on 07/06/2012 11:05:14 AM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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I will stand before God on Judgment Day and repent for voting for Romney but I will know that I did it to stop Obama. Stopping Obama is not a sin.

200 posted on 07/06/2012 11:10:52 AM PDT by PoliticalArsonist
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