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Is Worry REALLY a Sin?
DestinedForHeaven.com ^ | Sept 19, 2012 | DestinedforHeaven.com

Posted on 09/20/2012 7:41:41 PM PDT by destinedforheaven

Matthew 6:34 "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

It is hard to imagine how many times over the years I've been told by my mother to quit worrying. "Sarah, stop worrying...you know it's a sin to worry." Often times her next line was "Pray to God about your concerns." Often though I prayed half heartily which didn't give me any real sense of peace of mind. Not worrying is one of those things easier said than done. In fact God creates us all differently with our own set of circumstances in life that help shape the way we view the world. We all have different responses to negative things that happen along life's way. Many things happened to me as a child that I would do anything to protect my children from today. So many things stuck with me that were just hard to shake. A small example of this is how I was afraid of school teachers. I never wanted to displease my teachers in anyway and became a very insecure, quiet/shy student. My first grade teacher physically assaulted me for something that was an accident. Back in 1984 school teachers were allowed to use physical force. This had lasting effects on my outlook of authority

(Excerpt) Read more at wp.me ...


TOPICS: Religion
KEYWORDS: worrysinful

1 posted on 09/20/2012 7:41:42 PM PDT by destinedforheaven
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To: destinedforheaven

Oh man,,i sure hope worry isn’t a sin! Wait,, oh crap. Now i’ve really done it.


2 posted on 09/20/2012 7:45:39 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: destinedforheaven

IF it is I’m in big trouble. I swear I inherited a worry gene from both my parents who were worriers. And now with kids, I really worry, probably more than I should.


3 posted on 09/20/2012 7:45:56 PM PDT by Qwackertoo (Romney/Ryan 2012 The Future of Our Children and Their Children are at stake.)
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To: destinedforheaven

Thou shalt not worry?


4 posted on 09/20/2012 7:46:52 PM PDT by ILS21R (The time is nigh.)
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To: destinedforheaven

I don’t believe it is a sin, but it shows a lack of trust that God is in control. It can be hard to let go and truly hand Him the reigns. We have a magnet on our refrigerator that has a nice saying on it” “Don’t worry about tomorrow - od is already there.” It helps to bring things back into focus for me.


5 posted on 09/20/2012 7:48:17 PM PDT by 5thGenTexan
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To: destinedforheaven

Yes, because you are failing to believe God that he will provide. However, we know that Christ died for our sins, all of them. As long as we ask for forgiveness He is faithful to forgive us our transgressions.

That is why we need to pray for God to increase our faith, and Jesus even tells us to pray for our strength to be strengthened.

First and foremost, you must understand that anything that fall short of the perfection of God, is a sin, and that is why we will never ever be able to approach God, except through the blood of the perfect lamb, Christ Jesus.


6 posted on 09/20/2012 7:48:41 PM PDT by OneVike (I'm just a Christian waiting to go home)
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To: destinedforheaven

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

I fear, because I know that God is just.
I take comfort in the fact that God is merciful.

On the one hand, I worry; on the other hand, I don’t need to worry. I oscillate, and I think it’s OK.


7 posted on 09/20/2012 7:52:13 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: destinedforheaven

Why bring up such a question?

Do you think you can direct your life in such a way that you no longer sin?


8 posted on 09/20/2012 7:59:34 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: destinedforheaven

Why bring up such a question?

Do you think you can direct your life in such a way that you no longer sin?


9 posted on 09/20/2012 7:59:35 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: destinedforheaven

If worry really is a sin, then I wouldn’t worry about it if I were you.


10 posted on 09/20/2012 8:01:47 PM PDT by kevao (Is your ocean any lower than it was four years ago?)
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To: 5thGenTexan

How can God be in control when man has free will? God doesn’t control what evil people might do to you or your family.


11 posted on 09/20/2012 8:03:49 PM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: DesertRhino

Worry is no sin; however, worry is simply negative prayer.


12 posted on 09/20/2012 8:04:31 PM PDT by pankot
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To: 5thGenTexan
"Don’t worry about tomorrow - God is already there.”

Had did that get past spell check?

13 posted on 09/20/2012 8:06:15 PM PDT by 5thGenTexan
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To: Qwackertoo

Of course it is a sin...but is a result of a reverse faith and just living in sin generally. Faith precludes worry, but the church mostly has failed to teach it well. The fhu.com does a great job of teaching faith with their Be Still exercise. I have been practicing this silent prayer for many years and I never worry. Even if life gets tough at times, I know that worry will not be helpful and will block the natural ways and answers.


14 posted on 09/20/2012 8:07:07 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: destinedforheaven

I seldom worry. I fix what I can and then let God deal with it. When you have done all you can, worrying accomplishes nothing except making one feel bad.


15 posted on 09/20/2012 8:07:19 PM PDT by Marcella (Republican Conservatism is dead. PREPARE)
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To: Kirkwood

Subservience. We must choose to let God take command of our lives and be Lord over us. God does not control us - but we choose to follow His leadership and direction.


16 posted on 09/20/2012 8:11:51 PM PDT by 5thGenTexan
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To: destinedforheaven
No sorry is NOT a sin!

The Lord gave us a few "thou shall's and thou shall not's" other than the things specified as sins, the others are directions for us to follow for our own good but if we choose not to, we lose a better life, not commit sin.

17 posted on 09/20/2012 8:20:56 PM PDT by zerosix (Native sunflower)
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To: destinedforheaven

Think of the relationship between worry and disbelief, between disbelief and confidence, between confidence and trust, between trust and belief, and between belief and disbelief.


18 posted on 09/20/2012 8:24:58 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: destinedforheaven

Your question really worries me! :)


19 posted on 09/20/2012 8:28:52 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: 5thGenTexan
Subservience. We must choose to let God take command of our lives and be Lord over us. God does not control us - but we choose to follow His leadership and direction.

So you don't agree with Ephesians 2:8 ?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
20 posted on 09/20/2012 8:33:18 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: destinedforheaven

Now I worry that I’ve sinned worrying!


21 posted on 09/20/2012 8:36:38 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: fabian

I’ll take a look and see. I grew up with worry.


22 posted on 09/20/2012 8:42:45 PM PDT by Qwackertoo (Romney/Ryan 2012 The Future of Our Children and Their Children are at stake.)
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To: OneVike

If you think its wrong to worry, you never have had a teenage son take out your care for the first time, or your daughter who’s date shows up at the door with a face full of metal gee gaughs (old words for junk that sits around on the table at home ) Or the horror of every parent, a child that does not come home and they find their body weeks later....You certainly don’t go around saying....What me worry......


23 posted on 09/20/2012 9:07:22 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Marcella

“When you have done all you can, worrying accomplishes nothing except making one feel bad.”

I used to have that attitude back in college, and my saying was “I guess the best that I can do will just have to be enough”.

Of course I was, and still am, delusional when I think that I have given something my “best”. But - there is sure a difference about being concerned, working hard on a problem and then going to sleep hoping things will work out compared with sitting on the couch all day fretting about something. And pretty tough for God to show you the way, provide you with opportunities, meet the right people, etc. if you’re butt is in front of the T.V. all day.


24 posted on 09/20/2012 9:16:29 PM PDT by 21twelve (So I [God] gave them over to their stubborn hearts to follow their own devices. Psalm 81:12)
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To: destinedforheaven

You should have posted more of the reference article as well as the scripture it contains, which exceeds your post.

The key is Philippians 4-9 (memorize it!) which tells you specifically how to get control of the anxiety problem that God recognizes:


4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.

6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.


Read it emphatically, and then DO IT, and you too will receive what God promises: “the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”

If you want that peace, do what that scripture tells you to do!


25 posted on 09/20/2012 9:17:00 PM PDT by Weirdad (Don't put up with ANY voter fraud...)
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To: goat granny

Worry is not a sin,it leads to pray.((((Hugs)))


26 posted on 09/20/2012 9:17:19 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: destinedforheaven

I think if you let worry overwhelm you to the point you seriously believe God doesn’t care about you, or doesn’t have your back, or is with you through whatever, or that God’s left it all up to you because He seems not to be doing anything, then yes.

Being concerned about things, and making plans based on those concerns, is not worry. Trusting God no matter what and making prudent plans based on concern is fine. You are doing all you can do, and trusting that God will do what only He can do.


27 posted on 09/20/2012 9:17:19 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: 5thGenTexan

Not believing/trusting God is a sin. It’s the root of the sin of people that reject God. “It can’t be that easy.” “How can one guy on a cross help me?” “How do you not have to earn salvation, at least partly?”

But I don’t think being concerned about things and making plans to deal with those concerns is sin, unless you are so worried you are forgetting to remember God is in control and you can let go of the worry at the end of the day and are able to go to sleep. And even then, at unique times of great stress it would be understandable possibly to see why someone may feel this way.


28 posted on 09/20/2012 9:22:14 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Kirkwood

God certainly can limit what others can do to you, and he can intervene if He so desires. I am sure He has but since His interventions change what happens to you, you’d never know it in this lifetime.

Man has free will but it’s not unlimited free will. You only can do so much. We can’t break God’s natural laws for example. We can’t be in two places at once. We can’t wish things into happening on our own. Can’t see the future. Can’t magickally heal ourselves or escape death. Can’t go back or forward in time. And even with free will, man’s plans often fail quite badly.


29 posted on 09/20/2012 9:27:35 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Revolting cat!

The simple solution for this is to just ask for forgiveness if you really aren’t sure. Never hurts to ask.


30 posted on 09/20/2012 9:29:05 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: destinedforheaven

I’m a grand sinner....I’m so worried about this economy, this election, our financial situation, my wasting of money, my adult kids financial situation, and that was all worried about in about 25”.....can’t wait til I hit the sack and can really get into it...


31 posted on 09/20/2012 9:31:31 PM PDT by cherry
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To: goat granny

You are mixing up worry and concern.

Concern is not irrational, not based in a fear that overpowers you and leads you into depression, self-pity, helplessness, overblows the severity of what’s really going on. that is worry.

being concerned about something is that there’s something that has your attention, could be a potential issue with some possible bad outcomes, and that you may take some steps to minimize the negative possibilities, but it doesn’t mean you think God’s not with you, not in control, can’t keep you or others safe, etc.

That’s the difference between concern and worry.


32 posted on 09/20/2012 9:33:44 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: fatima

yep....:O)


33 posted on 09/20/2012 9:40:35 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Secret Agent Man
My husband was Polish, and I dearly loved his mother..she wore out more rosarys than most nuns...especially after 10 years of his going to a catholic school, the nuns kindly asked him and 2 of his buddy to leave..he then went to a trade school that worked on airplanes, that lasted a year. He was asked to leave. I met him his senior year in High school. My parents breathed a sigh of relief, he seem so nice....LOL

All of those rosaries seem to have helped, he turned out being a pretty good husband (most of the time :O)

34 posted on 09/20/2012 9:50:39 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: goat granny

need to read it again for my own sake.((((Hugs))))


35 posted on 09/20/2012 9:57:15 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: goat granny; destinedforheaven; fatima
I wasn't going to get to involved in this, but now I feel that I must. This could be a bit long, so please bare with me as I explain myself.. :>)
If you think its wrong to worry, you never have had a teenage son take out your car for the first time, or your daughter who’s date shows up at the door with a face full of metal gee gaughs (old words for junk that sits around on the table at home ) Or the horror of every parent, a child that does not come home and they find their body weeks later....You certainly don’t go around saying....What me worry......

First off, I never said I do not worry, I said it is a sin to worry. What I said is when I do find myself worrying, I pray for God to forgive me for lacking the faith I need to understand that he will take care of the things I have no control over.

As for children, I have 3 children and 6 grandchildren, so I am well aware of the pain, heart ache, and long nights of worry that comes with children who will do many things I have no control over other than raising them to do the right thing, and being an example for them to mimic.

When I do worry, it means I do not have faith that God will take care of all. However, I do worry plenty, and when I do I ask God to forgive me for my lack of faith. I also pray for Him to give me the strength to live with the things I cannot control, and the strength to deal with the pain and suffering that comes from having children who are going to do many things that will hurt them, me, and even strangers I will never meet.

You must understand that God did not give us the capability to worry, that is why all the worrying in the world never salved a problem. God wanted us to take the things we would worry about to Him. He wants us to want Him and to go to Him for advice and comfort. When we worry instead of going to Him, we are telling Him that he does not have the power to care for the things we do not have control over.

Plus, if I can find them, I will share my notes with you from when I taught a lesson on worry. Or maybe I'll write an article for this Sunday and post it to FR on the whole subject from my notes. You would be amazed about the many medical problems that arise in the body from worrying. Just to name one; When you worry, your mouth stops excreting saliva, which leads to cavities and gum disease. Yes, medically proven.

So, worry not, but instead ask you Father in Heaven to take away your worry, and to forgive you for the times you failed to give to Him the things you cannot handle. He wants us to go to Him, just as we want our children to come to us. When they do, we do our best to alleviate their worries. Well, so too will God alleviate ours worries when we take it to him.

If we just had the faith of a mustard seed, we could move mountains, and heal the hurt of our loved ones, along with convincing our enemies to love us. The one thing we need to remember above all, is if we worried not and something bad still happened, that our desire was not in accordance with His will. That is why we pray, not my will, but thy will.

Finally, when Lot lost all he had including hie children and his health, he did not curse God, even though his wife told him to. No, instead, he proclaimed,

"Naked I came from my mother's womb,
And naked shall I return there.
The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away;
Blessed be the name of the LORD."

God bless you and yours, and May the good Lord strengthen the faith of us all so that we may use the energy for more productive things in our lives.

OV

36 posted on 09/20/2012 10:22:56 PM PDT by OneVike (I'm just a Christian waiting to go home)
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To: pankot
My mother was a big-time worrier. It appeared that if she didn't have something to worry about, she'd find something, and let's face it. We never have to look very far.

My good friend told my mom years ago that mom had plenty of faith---faith in the negative. Well, yeah!

37 posted on 09/20/2012 10:27:25 PM PDT by IIntense
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To: PieterCasparzen
For by grace are ye saved through faith...

I never understood that. Does it mean that Jesus died for our sins and therefore we will not be held accountable for our faults and misdeeds; i.e., He already paid the price for us?

I was taught from the age of six that I am responsible if I break the laws of God and the laws of my church.

38 posted on 09/20/2012 10:42:36 PM PDT by IIntense
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To: fatima

Some times it is hard to understand what another is trying to say, so at times its like 2 trains passing each other. Only the one’s on the trains know where they are going or what they are trying to say...Its great when we can clarify to the other what we mean...it has happened to me and I am sure others. We are all coming from our own direction and sometimes as you say, rereading carefully can make you hit yourself on the forehead and say Now I Know what they meant. (((hugs))) back at you Fatima.....and I love the work you do with Kathy from Alaska and the canteen...GG


39 posted on 09/20/2012 11:02:13 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: destinedforheaven

I have always believed that if the Bible says “do not (verb)”, then (verb)ing is a sin.

I concede the possibility that this one is just good advice, and if you follow it, you wil have a much less stressful life.

I’m not going to worry about it...


40 posted on 09/20/2012 11:06:20 PM PDT by ExGeeEye (Wait a minute! Romney doesn't suck? I'm trying to keep up.)
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To: destinedforheaven

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkFcQRiFL68
WHY WORRY (1986) The Everly Brothers, Mark Knopfler, Chet Atkins, Michael McDonald

;o)


41 posted on 09/20/2012 11:18:07 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: OneVike

freep mail coming your way....GG


42 posted on 09/20/2012 11:33:15 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: IIntense
For by grace are ye saved through faith...

I never understood that. Does it mean that Jesus died for our sins and therefore we will not be held accountable for our faults and misdeeds; i.e., He already paid the price for us?


The rest of Eph 2:8 clarifies; "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

Grace refers to the grace of God. The section after the semicolon means that we are not saved "of ourselves", i.e., something we merited. We did not earn the salvation, by some work that we did or by some deserving trait of ours. It can only be understood as a free gift. If someone just walks up to me, and it's not my birthday, and they just say here, here's a gift and gives me something, I did not merit the gift, they simply decided to bestow it on me.

If we did merit salvation ourselves - we would not need the free gift, we would have it due to us for our merits. This is heresy; it makes Christ's work on the cross unnecessary, God forbid. We are unworthy to be in God's presence because of our sin; it is only by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ that a man is not destined for damnation.

So God, in his Grace, at his sovereign pleasure, decided to bestow a gift on the true believer, one who is counted among the elect. Very often people say what's this "elect" group - that's mean to say that God chose some people to save, and he chose to not save others. They dispute that election (God's election, not ours) is unscriptural. A quick search of biblegateway.com for the word elect will provide dozens of references to the election, and they all convey the same fact, that God has his elect. We simply can't stand the idea of not having control of our own destiny; yet what such feelings prove is only the presence of original sin, in that we are unwilling to submit to God. What people don't understand is that we do not have future knowledge. If I'm sitting there contemplating this, it may be that I am among the elect - I need to keep seeking.

We must keep in mind the perfection of God's justice. God requires a price of blood for sin. It's not like human justice, where the convicted can get a light sentence. It's perfect justice - we are born into sin (study of Genesis is needed to answer questions on that), we therefore can not avoid sinning. We have committed sins during our lives and the price must be paid for us to be in the presence of God. Rom 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Blood atonement was required of the ancient Israelites for sin. The Old Testament has that message throughout - the sacrifices were absolutely required, and Jesus says very clearly that the moral Law has not been abrogated; he came to fulfill it. Atonement for sin has always been required by God; he is unchanging, it is always required. The Old Testament sacrifices also foreshadow Christ's sacrifice - He is our Passover Lamb. That is what John the Baptist meant when he exclaimed "Behold the Lamb of God".

1 Peter Chapter 1:
"19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

The sacrifices all had to be the best there was to offer, not leftovers, or second best. The lamb was to be without blemish. What kind of sacrifice is it if it is only what was cheap or to be discarded ? That's an insult, a cheap way out. No, God demands a sacrifice. He also demands the first. The firstborn is always special in the Old Testament. Christ is the firstborn among the elect.

We must understand that salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit of God. As one seeks, it is actually the Holy Spirit that is drawing the seeker to be interested in God's Law Word. If it were up to our sinful minds, spirits and bodies, we would reject the Gospel. As a human, I myself would be too lazy and complacent to seek. I can only surmise that the Holy Spirit moves me to seek.

I was taught from the age of six that I am responsible if I break the laws of God and the laws of my church.

Salvation is not a license to sin in the future. Throughout the New Testament, the person forgiven is told to "go and sin no more". Sin must be repented of. When we admit that we have sinned, even though Christ died for our sins, we still must repent. Repentence requires acknowledgment, regret and resolve to refrain from the sin in the future.

Much of the New Testament is Epistles, letters written to congregations. They were included in the canon because they address doctrinal questions that had arisen then - and still arise today. One place the question of sinning after conversion is addressed directly is in Romans.

Rom 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

Once one truly experiences a conversion, that is the "born again" part of doctrine. The New Testament tells us that a man will put off the old man, that is, there will be a complete change within the believer. The Bible tells us this "old man" is crucified so that we should not serve sin.

But how can man, who has a sinful mind, spirit and body avoid sin ? A wonderful part of the good news is that the Holy Spirit dwells within the believer.

1 Corinthians 6:19 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

It is what brings about what we externally see in the believer as godly behavior; the Apostles confirmed this, even in themselves. This is the "fruit of the Spirit"; and conversion certainly brings about in a person an obedience to Christ.

John 14:15
" If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Hence we Christians, like ancient Israel, rely on God; we know what he desires of us through his Word.

We must study the Bible for answers, that's what the Reformation was all about. This is all straight from the Bible, IMHO, it is best to read the KJV original version and get familiar with the older English meanings by using a study Bible or guide that clarifies the older words in modern terms. Modern translations have actually changed the meanings that the translators of the KJV did such a good job at translating from the original languages. There are a few issues that quality scholarship raises with the KJV, but very few; conservative scholars agree that for most purposes, it's the best translation.

Blessings.
43 posted on 09/21/2012 6:48:37 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: PieterCasparzen

How do you arrive at that? Of course I believe I am saved by grace. What do you think motivates me to make Him my Lord and follow His direction in my life?


44 posted on 09/21/2012 7:09:11 AM PDT by 5thGenTexan
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To: 5thGenTexan
Subservience. We must choose to let God take command of our lives and be Lord over us. God does not control us - but we choose to follow His leadership and direction.

So you don't agree with Ephesians 2:8 ?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

How do you arrive at that? Of course I believe I am saved by grace. What do you think motivates me to make Him my Lord and follow His direction in my life?


Just noting that in the phrase "We must choose to let God" the word "let" means "allow", or "permit". Almighty God, being maker of Heaven and Earth and sovereign over his creation, is not subject to a person "letting" him do something.

Interestingly the first post included "God does not control us - but we choose to follow", in effect, that the work of saving us was our own, i.e., we made the right choice.

But in the second post there is the phrase "What do you think motivates me to make Him my Lord and follow"

Certainly I can't first initiate my salvation and God also first initiate my salvation as well - one or the other must be the original cause, which the second post intimates.

Perhaps the wording of the Westminster Confession can summarize well:

"The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls,[1] is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts,[2] and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word,[3] by which also, and by the administration of the sacraments, and prayer, it is increased and strengthened.[4]"

The following proof texts are used:

[1] HEB 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
[2] 2CO 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak. EPH 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
45 posted on 09/21/2012 8:35:36 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: PieterCasparzen
Just noting that in the phrase "We must choose to let God" the word "let" means "allow", or "permit". Almighty God, being maker of Heaven and Earth and sovereign over his creation, is not subject to a person "letting" him do something.

I did not say we had power over God. I said we must choose. He gave us the ability to choose; it is the basis of why we are here. He already had the angels, who are obedient without choice. We are special because we can choose to not follow. And before you go there, yes, God gave Satan the power to choose, knowing full well what the choice would be. That was all part of the plan. Sin had to enter in to the Universe and God doesn't sin. Satan was the vehicle.

46 posted on 09/21/2012 8:59:17 PM PDT by 5thGenTexan
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To: 5thGenTexan

Just thought I’d offer, FWIW, my own little story.

I for one know that I did not choose. I was a “procrastinator”, for over 30 years I thought I was a “good person”, had never studied Scripture seriously, sort of thought that I would one day. I kind of “knew the Bible was true”, felt like I would get to studying it some day when I had some time to set aside. I was not a “bad guy” I reasoned, how could I not go to heaven ? I understand “lukewarm” Christianity because that was me, idiot that I was.

I had a failed marriage to a professing but rather lax Christian a few years ago. This kind of got me thinking a bit about “getting around to” studying the Bible and trying to get right with God. But of course, I did nothing. I did not study the Bible, I did not attempt to attend a Church.

I was researching my ancestry about a year later, not thinking at all about the Bible. I was supposed to be part Armenian. I found that to be wrong after researching; there simply was a woman named Arminia and miscommunication; this was confirmed by other researchers. When we are children sometimes we don’t quite understand things older folks are saying; by the time we’re old, sometimes we’ve completely confused what we “remember”. Family stories have a way of “Elizabeth Warrening” out of control. But I digress...

One thing led to another in my ancestry research and soon I was touching on parts of European history that I found interesting. I started reading about the Reformation and found myself getting drawn into reading about theology and history of the Reformation. It’s not that I wanted to do this, but I could not stop from reading about it. I had remembered from my youth I had once thought that to truly profess Christ would be the most serious profession; even as a child I realized that much, that it seemed to be an “all-or-nothing” proposition, since denying Christ is such a grave sin. So my study prompted me to try attending a few Churches, looking for one that had some kind of Reformed doctrine. I began to really study the Bible. I became severely distraught over my past sins. This started to very much impact my ability to function in life in a negative way. I gave up and simply agonized for a few days. Finally it dawned on me that this was the idea, that the “good person” needs Christ for salvation; the total depravity started making sense. But still I hesitated. I had learned enough to know that I must not lie and profess faith if I do not truly understand and mean what I am professing; I knew that this was a no-going-back idea, that if I, in the future, slid back into my old ways, or ever denied Christ, even in a life-and-death situation, then I would be back to questioning myself.

Truth be told, I did not really “decide” anything. I never really did. I noticed that I had really changed my ways. What I knew now to be sins that I used to be unable to resist I now was disgusted by the thought of. I found myself praying daily and studying Scripture several days a week. Over the next few weeks it became apparent that my “professing” was done. I simply was changed. I knew I was certainly not relying on msyelf to avoid sin, and I found such continual joy in the Bible. Many things make me miserable, afraid, etc., even more so than ever, but I just daily am aware of Christ and God’s Word and it comforts me to the point of happiness. I just don’t see how at any time I said to myself “It’s now or never, I’ve got to get right with God”, or something like that. I came to understand just how weak a man is, that there’s no way I could rely on myself to resist temptation. It’s just a different situation now; sins that used to be tempting to me are now repugnant. Of course, now that I’m reading the Bible - the bar is raised a bit. So I always seem to find some way to fall short which, of course, requires repentence.

I don’t see any rational “earthly” explanation for a person to change so dramatically. These were changes that I never set out or intended to have happen. What’s even more amazing is that they took no effort on my part. I really had lost control instead of gaining control. It’s analagous to a person with a half dozen lifetime addictions one day just finding them all disgusting and quitting them all cold turkey. No way Dr. Phil is going to get that done in a few months. Prior to my conversion experience, for the good things I had done, they were far more offset by my sins. If it were purely up to me I would not have the goodness and strength within me to choose righteousness on my own; instead, I would be taking the easy way out, living for the here and now. Yet now it continually is impressed on my conscience that I am bought with a price. I can only give all credit to God for anything and for everything good that becomes of me from here on.

Now in terms of the doctrine of free will, all along, of course - I was completely aware of the Bible. I had a brain, I could read and think and I had, all along, every mental and physical capability to make the right choice. So I have no excuse for not reading, trusting in and obeying God’s Word many years ago.

Perhaps we are on the same page.

I searched the Bible for the word “chosen”, came up with a few pertinent verses:

2 Thessalonians 2:13
“But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:”

Ephesians 1:4
“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”

James 2:5
“Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?”

2 Timothy 2:1-4
“1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.”

1 Peter 2:9
“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;”

Grace and Peace, Texan !


47 posted on 09/22/2012 10:52:04 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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