Skip to comments.(IBD) Benghazi Consulate Could Have Used Marines With Bayonets as Obama watched Navy SEALs die
Posted on 10/29/2012 2:55:35 PM PDT by raptor22
Scandal: More than six hours after terrorists attacked our consulate, former Navy SEALs manned a blood-soaked machine gun to defend U.S. territory. Meanwhile Apache helicopters sat on the ground in Italy.
At 4 a.m. local time on Sept. 11 six hours and 20 minutes after the initial attack began former Navy SEALs Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty were killed at the CIA annex not far from the consulate by a mortar shell. The machine gun they were firing was encrusted with blood, an indication they continued to fight after being wounded.
During that eternity, Woods and Doherty might have wondered between gunfire and explosions where the military, with bases strewn across Europe, was. U.S. forces were indeed being moved like chess pieces as the attack unfolded, but none came to their aid because no one gave the order.
President Obama, perhaps preoccupied with his upcoming Las Vegas fundraiser, met with Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Vice President Joe Biden in the Oval Office at 5 p.m. ET, a little more than an hour after the onset of the attack.
He could have given the order but did not, even after an email, in which the al-Qaida-tied group Ansar al-Sharia claimed responsibility, arrived at 6:07 p.m. ET to a distribution list that included the White House Situation Room.
A Special Operations force went from central Europe to Naval Air Station Sigonella in southern Italy, just 480 miles from Benghazi. F-16s and Apache helicopters remained parked and unused at Aviano Air Base in northern Italy. Two Navy destroyers already in the Mediterranean Sea were moved off the coast of Libya on the day of the attack but were never used. The question is: Why not?
(Excerpt) Read more at tcotblog.ning.com ...
If the administration’s argument tat our military can be reduced due to the technologies available, then. Where was it?
If we reduce our military the way Obama wants, it will be so lean that the administration will be afraid to use the limited resources, for fear of losing a good percentage of them in any instance. They will likely be overwhelmed by masses of poorly trained enemy forces.
“Somebody find me one of those uh...boats that go under uh... water.”
I’m still waiting on an answer as to why we needed to be there in the first place.
Read THE ILLINOIS PAY TO PLAY BLOG!!! It explains why Obama is messing around in the Middle East. It’s always about money!
A staged hostage-taking that went awry is a possibility, but in any case the initial security decision triggered the entire mess.
The Benghazi Massacre was a set-up:
The Benghazi failure is not unique to zero. Back in the late 60’s, a “reconnaisance” ship, the USS Pueblo, was captured by the North Koreans after being under attack from their patrol boats for approximately 24 hours. According to American officials at the time, the Pueblo was in international waters when the North Korean vessels began their attack.
When the attack began, the Pueblo radioed for assistance, but got none. The request was forwarded to the Chief of Naval Operations who would not order additional ships or aircraft to the Pueblo’s aid. After approximately 22 hours of being under attack, the ONLY military officer with the authority to do so (an Air Force general in Okinawa) sent his ready alert aircraft to aid the Pueblo. Upon arrival in Korea, the aircraft had to have their nuclear warheads offloaded and conventional weapons loaded before they could fly out to the Pueblo’s location. By the time that the weapons were exchanged, it was too dak fro the aircraft to assist the Pueblo.
The next day, the Pueblo surrendered and was ordered in the harbor at Pyongyang. The crew was taken captive and held for 11 months before being repatriated to the U.S. The USS Pueblo was never returned and, TTBOMK, remains in North Korea today.
The captain of the Pueblo, Cdr. Pete Bucher, was court-martialed for losing his ship, but the court-martial board would not convict him. Still, his Navy career was done.
The failure of good men to act is repeated throughout history. The Pueblo affair is one story, Benghazi is another.
I wonder if the Seals were “his people” like the Attorney Generals
I was working at Camp Fuchinobe, Japan, the evening Pueblo was hijacked. We were directed to focus all of our meager resources toward N. Korea. One of my neighbors from Kami Seya was supposed to have joined Pueblo at Sasebo, but he switched cruises and the other guy got to spend 11 months as a guest of Kim Il Sung.
GOD help the poor goat-herder who is walking across a Libyan desert with his wife and kidS.
I can see the NY Times headlines now : "PRESIDENT OBAMA SENDS IN ARMED DRONES.... KILLS EMBASSY KILLERS. SAYS 'WE CAME...WE SAW...HE DIED T-O-O'. ALSO, SAYS HILLARY DIDN'T COIN THE PHRASE...SAYS HE RESERVED IT DURING 2008 CAMPAIGN AND SHE STOLE IT."
To be honest, horses wouldn’t have hurt, either.
Of course, I thought (and still think) assets should have been brought to bear to give the Pueblo a chance. Though I don't agree with the decision to be slow to send support, it is understandable, as things could have escalated fast, especially with nuclear weapons on aircraft most readily available to provide support.
No way was potential escalation to WWIII the case in Benghazi, so I can't see there was any excuse.
With the hurricane, it will be interesting to see if the Libyan stupidity (or perhaps traitorous, impeachable actions) gets picked up after the reporting on the Won's incredible defeat of the storm of the century......
Unlike my friends on PUEBLO, PALM BEACH was the best duty station I had in 21 years of naval service.
The question is did he actually watch them die, and then did nothing?
IIRC, two of the crewmen were murdered, and the rest were indeed ill-treated. DPRK is not bound by the Geneva Convention. Revenge is a dish best served cold. They’ll get get theirs one day.
I knew some CTs in the AGR program. Been a very long time. I got a tour of Oxford when she was in dry dock in Yokosuka.
The pReS_ _ent is an impostor who took delight
in the 911 Atrocities in 2001 and 2012.
NEVER has America been saddled with such
a traitor as Bathhouse Barry.
The usurper has a hatered of the SEALS. He’s proved again and again.
I both commissioned and decommissioned her. Only other one who did was YN1 Smart. Made both cruises ----> North Atlantic and Med.
Good ship...good crew...good friends...good memories.
Not a question, but from your profile, I assume NovemberSierraAlpha. Answer not required.
Roger your assumption. Thirty-seven years, military and civilian. I can’t think of the names of those guys now. I turned 70 last summer and I can’t even remember what I had for lunch yesterday, let alone some guys I met 40+ years ago. I remember some of those guys talking about liberty in South Africa or South America and was impressed. Never thought I’d ever get to some of those places. Then I did get to go to some of those places. I’ve been retired for 15 years now. Those were some good times, bud. Cheers.
His crew as totally unprepared for an emergency and Bucher ran a loose ship and he himself claimed to be unaware as to how much classified documents they had on board.
They failed to destroy a large amount of classified documents and equipment due to their unfitness
Many think he should have gone down with his ship and the classified materials..
while there was sufficient blame to go around, Bucher IMO should take the brunt of it. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB278/03.PDF
I think 0bama has made it very clear that no patriot, or any member of a patriots family, even approaches being one of 0bamas people.
Whether or not 0bama actually watched anyone die, I think he had to know that his failure to act would bring about the deaths of our people on the ground in Libya.
Some reality checks about the ground situation in Benghazi the night of Sept 11, 2012.
It has been almost totally confirmed that at least one laser target designator was operational during the 7-hour fire fight. And, that one fact, puts all the lies and spin generated by the administration and its fellow travelers into the crapper and the chain pulled.
The target designator is used to designate targets for smart bombs and missiles. That class of munitions is called smart because they guide all the way to the target with mean radial errors (MRES) and circle of equal probabilities (CEPS) measured in single meters. What?
When you work munitions issues, tests and operational, you are trying to get the smallest miss distances possible mean radial error is defined as a range and bearing from the target to the munitions consistent impact. The circle of equal probability is when 50% of your munitions fall inside that circle and 50% outside. The two added together define how accurate that type of munition is.
When I flew as a navigator/radar-navigator in B-52Ds during Vietnam we dropped dumb iron bombs with MRES/CEPS measured in 100rds of feet. Later working with advanced munitions I saw operational test results with MRES/CEPS measured in single digit meters (97% smaller than dumb bombs).
So what does the above hot air mean? There was minimal, if any, risk of missing the targets marked by the laser designator. So the hot air of worrying about where the targets were located and the possibility of killing innocent by-standers is just that - HOT AIR.
According to many sources, including the crew, there was so much classified material onboard the ship that some of it was stored in passageway overheads.
When the ship came under fire, they tried to burn piles of the documentation on the deck, but were driven back by hostile fire from the NORKS and cold, freezing weather that prevented them from being able to uncap their 5” gun and return fire.
Finally, if “while there was sufficient blame to go around, Bucher IMO should take the brunt of it”, why did a Navy court-martial board acquit him? Given the circumstances, the court-martial board would not have acquitted him unless there were extensive and material extenuating circumstances. You might want to do a little more research. Shortly after the crew was repatriated, 3 books were written by the crew and 1 by an admiral; all are worth spending some time reading so you have a better grasp of a situation that you clearly do not comprehend.
God bless your neighbor and give him the Hawaiian Greeting for me.
He’ll know what I mean.
I concur with the first part, but not the rest.
In the aftermath of the Pueblo episode, when the crew was finally returned, 4 books about the incident were produced. The most insightful of the 4 was written by an admiral who directly addressed the slow-to-nonresponse by the military services overall.
We think it desirable to have our military controlled by civilians. Thus the Army, Navy, Air Force all have civilian "secretaries" at their head to direct their military branch. According to the admiral, it was the civilian control that caused the slow or non-response.
The civilians were all concerned that if any assistance were given or any fire returned, it would cause "an international incident". An international incident might cause to U.S. to appear to be a bully to the rest of the world so, without presidential approval, aid wasn't coming.
The irony is that Nixon sent the USS Enterprise to Korea and it was there the day after the Pueblo was captured. Had I been POTUS, I would have parked 5 F-4s on the flight deck and invited the NORKS to come out and take a look. I would then advise North Korea that either my ship and crew were released in the next two hours or one of their cities would disappear. And, one of their cities would disappear every two hours afterward until we either got our ship and crew back, or there was nothing left to destroy.
That's probably why I will never be POTUS. I won't take any crap from any other nation and if you want to screw with the U.S, you won't like the consequences!
IIRC, Nixon took LBJ to task for not going immediately and teaching the Norks a lesson in Jan 1968. In April 1969, the Norks shot down an Atsugi-based reconnaissance aircraft after Nixon was president, and he did nothing. The deaths of those crewmen, some of whom lived in my ‘hood, remain unavenged.
You recall correctly. Unfortunately, that was America’s “Fear of International Incidents” period in which we were afraid to stand up for ourselves for fear of being viewed by the rest of the world as a bully.
What a crock!!
I think the real fear was getting bogged down in yet another land war in Asia. Too bad we didn’t have the weaponry then that we do now. A single cruise missile dropped on party HQS might’ve got their attention.
We may not have had the sophisticated weapons systems that we have today, but we had superior weaponry to the NORKS and, even better, we had superior numbers of troops that could be deployed, if necessary.
Today, we would be hard-pressed to maintain an offensive against Luxembourg. Iraq and Afghanistan have depleted and exhausted our military - most of whom have come from the ranks of the reserves - as the result of repeated deployments to those s**tholes.
As long as our military-hating tinpot dictators want to play “soldier” all the while cutting the military, this is a formula that simply won’t work.
Vietnam, IMO, was America’s “experiment” with guerilla warfare and our generals and admirals discovered that we don’t know squat about it; still don’t. The irony is that the guerillas use similar tactics that our own Militiamen did during the Revolutionary War. It defeated the Brits and it is now defeating us.
Just heard Newt on Greta, there are more emails, that he thinks will break on Wed. or Thursday. It is the NO GO or stand down email, if I understood him correctly.
This proves the old adage, “those who do not study the past are doomed to repeat it,” or words to that affect. The militiamen of 1775 weren’t bound by insane ROE by their “leadership.”
Well put, Ax.
Thanks for a great discussion, I enjoyed it!
May you always have clear skies and following seas!!
Pleasure was all mine, Dusty. I’ll still be hanging around here.
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