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The Conservativesí Obama Delusion
Commentary Magazine ^ | 11.07.2012 | Jonathan S. Tobin

Posted on 11/07/2012 10:00:33 PM PST by Kevmo

The Conservatives’ Obama Delusion

Jonathan S. Tobin | @tobincommentary 11.07.2012 - 1:05 AM For most of the last two years, if not the last four, many conservatives and Republicans assumed that Barack Obama could not be re-elected. A poor economy, an unpopular liberal agenda shoved down the throat of the country, and a largely uninspiring presidential leadership style combined to create a widespread belief on the right that the 2012 election would be a layup for them. We now know what some of us suspected for a long time: Republicans drastically underestimated the president’s appeal as a historic figure.

The postmortem on the Republican failure to defeat the president will go on until 2016, but the finger pointing within the party will largely miss the point. Their big problem was not Romney’s moderation (likely to be the right wing’s favorite theory); the influence of the Tea Party (the standard liberal interpretation); the failure to do outreach to Hispanics (though they need to address this problem); Romney’s inability to run against ObamaCare; the GOP standard bearer’s decision not to talk more about himself and letting the Democrats define him; the decision not to hammer Obama more over the Benghazi fiasco or even Hurricane Sandy.

The main obstacle to a Republican victory was that they were seeking to defeat the first African-American president aided by a supportive mainstream media, buttressed by the power of incumbency and what turned out to be a tremendously efficient campaign organization. Contrary to the delusion that Obama was a loser waiting to be knocked off, beating him was always going to be a long shot. Though the GOP will spend much of the coming weeks, months and years beating each other up as they assign blame for the defeat, the fact is, Romney did well to come as close as he did. Rather than wonder about what Republicans could have done better, conservative analysts would do better to look at the president’s strengths.

Most conservatives were prepared to acknowledge that the majority of Americans were still pleased with the idea of righting some historic wrongs by electing an African-American in 2008. But they failed to understand that even though Obama’s administration was not widely viewed as a great success, at least half of the country was not prepared to toss him out of office after only one term.

As an incumbent, Obama was able to claim credit for things for which he did not deserve many plaudits, like the killing of Osama bin Laden or even the response to the hurricane in the last days before the election. He also could count on the unfailing support of much of the media even when he was embarrassed by events, such as in Libya.

These were strengths that many Republicans continually discounted or disregarded entirely.

The close nature of the loss at a time when the national economy is still stagnant will naturally cause many on the right to speculate on what Romney and his campaign could have done differently. They will be right when they point out he should have fought back immediately against the slurs against his character that were the focus of much of the Obama campaign’s early efforts. Maybe a perfect GOP effort could have gotten that extra one percent of the vote that would have turned a few close states and elected Romney. That’s something that will torment conservatives as ObamaCare is implemented and Obama continues to govern from the left.

But even his sternest critics must admit Romney ran quite a creditable campaign and was able to use the debates to make the race closer and even take a lead in some polls in the last month. They must also acknowledge that the conservative assumption that the electorate in 2012 would be very different than it was in 2008 was wrong.

The good news for the GOP is that contrary to those who will predict that there is a permanent Democratic majority, the circumstances of 2012 won’t be repeated in four years. Obama will be gone in 2016 and anyone who thinks that Joe Biden, Andrew Cuomo or even Hillary Clinton will have an easy time against the deep Republican bench that is ready to run next time misunderstands the nature of American politics.

The bottom line is that Barack Obama won the 2012 election far more than the Republicans lost it. Obama may be a remarkably unsuccessful president (he’s the first to win re-election by a smaller margin) but he was never the patsy most conservatives imagined. Conservatives spent the last two years since their 2010 midterm victory operating under a serious delusion about the president’s political strengths. That’s a terrible indictment of their political acumen, but it won’t affect their chances in four years when Obama is no longer on the ballot.


TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: vote2012

1 posted on 11/07/2012 10:00:34 PM PST by Kevmo
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To: Kevmo

Historic figure?

He won by lies, media on his side and give aways


2 posted on 11/07/2012 10:03:06 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL

2016? I can’t help but feel gloomy given what the American electorate has become. We’re doomed!


3 posted on 11/07/2012 10:07:53 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Kevmo

The problem was none of that. The prez didn’t have an “efficient campaign organization”. His turnout was 9 MILLION lower than in 2008. The problem is that somehow, despite the disaster his incumbency has been, the “Republican” voter base didn’t turn out in enough numbers to kick him out. Somewhere along the line, several million Republican voters disappeared too.


4 posted on 11/07/2012 10:08:17 PM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: Kevmo

I honestly thought that after pickups like McDonnell and Brown, 2010 election and the Walker recall victory that Americans changed back to center right.

Thought they just gave Obama a fair chance because he was young and appealing, historic and in the middle of a crazy crisis. I didn’t think they really wanted a real leftist.


5 posted on 11/07/2012 10:10:56 PM PST by ari-freedom (Election Day should be after Thanksgiving, not right after Halloween)
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To: ari-freedom
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.” ― Alexis de Tocqueville
6 posted on 11/07/2012 10:11:35 PM PST by scooby321 (AMS)
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To: Kevmo

I’ve got to read this in more detail but it looks right on. Obama managed to get 2% more non-white voters to the polls in an election when “we” thought they’d sit it out. Dumb us. And we thought Republicans would flock to the polls to get rid of him, and Romney ended up getting fewer votes than McCain.

Pissing and moaning and talking crap is permitted for a while, but in the end we will have to learn from this election and move forward in a way that will produce better results.

Any questions - watch this 17 second video and realize there is no room for self-pity. Now it’s our turn to take the hit and keep on fighting even harder.


7 posted on 11/07/2012 10:13:34 PM PST by bigbob
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To: Kevmo
The main obstacle to a Republican victory was that they were seeking to defeat the first African-American president aided by a supportive mainstream media, buttressed by the power of incumbency and what turned out to be a tremendously efficient campaign organization. Contrary to the delusion that Obama was a loser waiting to be knocked off, beating him was always going to be a long shot. Though the GOP will spend much of the coming weeks, months and years beating each other up as they assign blame for the defeat, the fact is, Romney did well to come as close as he did.

This man speaks the truth.

8 posted on 11/07/2012 10:15:05 PM PST by Jeff Winston
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To: scooby321

But Walker won WI by 6% points and that’s a birthplace of the progressive movement. The unions went crazy over that campaign. Before that, Prosser. So I had good reason to expect to extrapolate that to the rest of the country.


9 posted on 11/07/2012 10:18:05 PM PST by ari-freedom (Election Day should be after Thanksgiving, not right after Halloween)
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To: ari-freedom

Same here. Romney was right about the 47%, and now the scales might be tipped.


10 posted on 11/07/2012 10:26:42 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

Not a bad commentary. But we’d better not have 15 greedy grabby Republicans in the primary season, all thinking they have a chance because there’s no incumbent. This time they all jumped in because they thought that with Obama’s abysmal lack of respect for America, one of them would surely win.

Let the lesser candidates debate on Al Jazeera and Russian TV but let’s not have them all killing one another like we did this year, especially with one multi-billionaire blowing all the others to smithereens.


11 posted on 11/07/2012 10:29:35 PM PST by firebrand
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To: Kevmo

If we don’t crawl out of this echo chamber (and based on some of the comments it seems we may not) this is going to happen to us again, and again, and again, and again ...


12 posted on 11/07/2012 10:32:32 PM PST by RIghtwardHo
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To: Jeff Winston

Josef Goebbels would envy our mainstream media.


13 posted on 11/07/2012 10:33:56 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: GeronL
He won by lies, media on his side and give aways

And massive voter fraud.

14 posted on 11/07/2012 10:35:57 PM PST by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: Jeff Winston

Yep. Best commentary I’ve read all day. That along with some vote fraud put him right back in the WH. Durring this whole campaign, I would watch Obamas’ cocky self assurance and think, he acts like he is going to actually win! I was so sure he was going to be beat like a rented mule.


15 posted on 11/07/2012 10:37:03 PM PST by beckysueb
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To: RIghtwardHo

Yup....Ras & Gallup screwed around with their polls while Nate Silver was dead-on. Check out Freeper Jackmercer who NAILED this election last week out here using science & data. And this guy makes some good points. People were not ready to throw out the first black president.


16 posted on 11/07/2012 10:42:33 PM PST by LongWayHome
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To: Kevmo

Those who create reality master it.

The media was, is and will be our problem. The so called “entertainment arm” bombards our society with the constant message that conservatives are un-caring racist, homophobic, red neck imbiciles. They do so in almost every movie Hollywood produces and in almost TV show. The so caled “news arm” of the media is no more than a ministry of propaganda a this point. It covers for and buries everything that could be harmful to those who they ideologically agree with.

The media has such a hold over the public that it was able to convince them that, regardless of the worst economy in memory, the republicans were the root of all evil. It was Bush’s fault, it was Big Bird, it was contraception and some war on women (republicans hate women don’t ya know).

Until and unless we get serious about destroying the media by ANY MEANS NECESSARY we are losers. We need to attack the media with a ferocity never before seen. We need to expose them, follow them, find their secrets, get into their personal lives, do whatever it takes to put them to the same scrutiny that they put our candidates and our voters.


17 posted on 11/07/2012 10:48:12 PM PST by FlipWilson
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To: FlipWilson

The media was, is and will be our problem.
***I agree. You need a candidate who is telegenic and creates their own free press. For instance, the media constantly harangued about Reagan and gave him free press, basically with middle americans asking, “what’s the problem with that?” when they watched the media go into leg-tingling frenzies. The only politician like that today is Palin. She drives the media into a frenzy, generating her own free press and accessing middle americans who see her as one of themselves, so “what’s the problem”?


18 posted on 11/07/2012 10:59:54 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

One of their blunders was abandoning the highly effective term “socialized medicine” in favor of “Obamacare”. The other was failing to label him as a “liberal”. With a dumbed-down electorate, simple words have a greater impact than wonky speeches on the debt or deficit.


19 posted on 11/07/2012 11:05:22 PM PST by rfp1234
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To: Kevmo

No, you misunderstand my point entirely. The media of today is different than any other we have seen. They have reached the final destination. It is no longer “bias” that is their problem. Now it is far more. It is activism, it is influence. They are ruling the country de facto.

Trying to find a candidate or person who fits their paradigm is impossible. There is NO Republican who can survive within their world. They must be destroyed, killed, pulverized by any and all means necessary. They have betrayed this country. I am really considering forming a PAC that does nothing but advertise against the MSM and is in permanent campaign mode. Kill the media and the democrats lose 5% of the vote, easily.


20 posted on 11/07/2012 11:15:16 PM PST by FlipWilson
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To: Little Pig

Here is where they went, 2,186,986 strong and vowed to not vote for Mitt, so they had rather have Satan. Here are the numbers you are looking for.
http://www.votingforjesus.com/


21 posted on 11/07/2012 11:17:05 PM PST by annieokie
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To: FlipWilson

Well, forming a PAC sounds like a good idea. I agree with you that the MSM has slipped the bounds of bias and has gone straight into outright advocacy.

I do not understand why there aren’t some rich dude conservatives who see this as a huge opportunity. Warren Buffett already saw it as an opportunity & bought up a bunch of media outlets & newspapers and will prop them up for liberalism. With so many failing newspapers, a conservative could pick them up for pennies on the dollar and have his own conservative network. There’s a ready made market for it.


22 posted on 11/07/2012 11:22:53 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

This still doesn’t explain how Romney got 2 million fewer votes than McCain did in ‘08.

That’s what is really puzzling to me.


23 posted on 11/07/2012 11:24:24 PM PST by cydcharisse (`)
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To: Kevmo

it is a good idea to buy more media outlets. But in the meantme, it must be scorched earth war against the liberal media. Their personal lives, their families personal lives, their friends personal lives, everything and anything must be exposed with these people. They must be subjected to the same horrid treatment that they give all our voters and candidates.


24 posted on 11/07/2012 11:26:41 PM PST by FlipWilson
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To: cydcharisse

It wasn’t just 2M, it was 6M votes he lost.

Vote totals:

2008:
OBama 69,297,997
McCain: 59,597,520

2012:
Obama: 54,773,837
Romney 53,716,689

Looks like a whole lot of voters stayed home.

Obama -15M
Romney -6M

So, Romney got 6M votes LESS than McLame did, in a poor economy. Was McLame was a better candidate? No Freepin’ Way. Palin was the one who propped up McLame. If she were the candidate she wouldn’t have had a gender gap & would have sent the bass turd packing.

This election was about turning out the base. Bronc0bama turned out his; Romney didn’t. What exactly was Romney’s base, since he was never a conservative? He was trying to steal independents, middle-of-the-road liberals, stupid people, etc. from 0bama. He was trying to be a big tent republican. From my home page:

___________________________________________________________________

I’m a big tent republican.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1821435/posts?page=18455
Here’s an analogy to work with. Take a small box and fill it with some rocks. Then add some rice, filling it to the top. Now take all the same stuff, but in a different order. Put in the rice first, then add the rocks. What you’ll find is that if you put in the big stuff first, the small stuff will fit around it. But if you put in the small stuff first, the big stuff won’t have room. The republican tent is the box. The Big issues are the socon issues, to be put in first. The little issues are things that can be accommodated around the bigger stuff. A candidate who tries to focus on the smaller issues first and leave out the bigger issues has no way of getting all of us into the tent. He splits the party. The candidate who gets the big stuff right and as much of the little stuff that will fit, he can fit more into the tent. We’re often amazed at how much rice can keep fitting in. Folks such as Rudy or Romney flunk some of the big issues, and on some of the little issues it looks to me like anyone else’s rice would do just as well. All that remains for us to agree on is which are the bedrock principles and which are not. Why would there be so much invective aimed at rudy or romney from the right? Because there are some bedrock principles that he is leaving out. Bad move. I see rudybot and romneybot postings all the time saying that they would vote for Hunter or Palin, and I see socon postings that say they would not vote for rudy or romney. That’s a BIG indicator of a few bedrock principles that are being left outside the tent in order to let in some rice.

___________________________________________________________________


25 posted on 11/07/2012 11:28:48 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

“The only politician like that today is Palin. She drives the media into a frenzy, generating her own free press and accessing middle americans who see her as one of themselves, so “what’s the problem”?”

Palin is only Fox News.
The MSM goes way beyond the news. Watch a typical TV show and they’ll throw in a subtle dig against republicans. They turned Palin into a joke. Again, I’m talking about regular TV shows and not news.


26 posted on 11/07/2012 11:29:20 PM PST by ari-freedom (Election Day should be after Thanksgiving, not right after Halloween)
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To: annieokie

“Here is where they went, 2,186,986 strong and vowed to not vote for Mitt, so they had rather have Satan. Here are the numbers you are looking for.”

I guess they can pay for Sandra Fluke’s abortions.


27 posted on 11/07/2012 11:31:51 PM PST by ari-freedom (Election Day should be after Thanksgiving, not right after Halloween)
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To: ari-freedom

Again, I’m talking about regular TV shows and not news.
***I know. The only way to combat that is with your own media outlets. Rush Limbaugh regularly lambastes those kind of blatant digs, but he’s just one man. Rich socon dudes need to step up.


28 posted on 11/07/2012 11:32:47 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: BerryDingle
And massive voter fraud.

Wow, this is the first time I have read this old and tired shibboleth. Do you have any proof or are you just one of those "stabbed in the back" wing-nuts?

If you continue to use this as an excuse for not assessing what went wrong and making the necessary adjustments, you better get used to losing.

29 posted on 11/07/2012 11:37:16 PM PST by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (Using profanity gives people who don't want information from you an excuse not to listen.)
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To: Kevmo

Hey Kevmo, I just googled it; latest popular vote for Romney is 57,468,000.


30 posted on 11/07/2012 11:41:31 PM PST by cydcharisse (`)
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To: ari-freedom
Guess so. Insanity isn't it, what were they thinking?

But, gotta give it to them, "THEY VOTED THEIR VALUES", and nothing was going to stop them from making their point, yep atta way to go for sure, voted their principles down the drain.

Strong wrong minded people/s

31 posted on 11/07/2012 11:52:55 PM PST by annieokie
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To: cydcharisse
Clink on the link in post #21 to find your 2M.

2M vowed to vote for Jesus. BECAUSE they did not want either Satan. Check it out, there is your answer. Insanity? Yes, but they "voted their values, but voted their principles down the drain"

32 posted on 11/07/2012 11:58:29 PM PST by annieokie
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To: cydcharisse

Ok, I just pulled the numbers from Townhall.com for 2012

2008:
OBama 69,297,997
McCain: 59,597,520

2012:
Obama: 60,602,406
Romney 57,777,139


33 posted on 11/08/2012 12:25:15 AM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: annieokie

If Jesus got that many votes this election, maybe He can qualify for federal matching funds ;-)


34 posted on 11/08/2012 12:26:49 AM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: GeronL

Hitler was an historic figure. Stalin was an historic figure. Why should Obama be any less?


35 posted on 11/08/2012 12:38:56 AM PST by jimfree (In Nov 2012 my 12 y/o granddaughter has more relevant&quality executive experience than Barack Obama)
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To: jimfree

Speaking of Hitler, I was sure bumbed out last night when Ohio’s results came in. I was so looking forward to a “Hitler finds out he lost the election” video.


36 posted on 11/08/2012 12:41:50 AM PST by tsowellfan
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To: jimfree

*bummed


37 posted on 11/08/2012 12:42:16 AM PST by tsowellfan
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To: Kevmo

Having an historic president and five bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks.


38 posted on 11/08/2012 12:45:22 AM PST by RichInOC (Palin 2016: The Perfect Storm.)
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To: FlipWilson
No, you misunderstand my point entirely. The media of today is different than any other we have seen. They have reached the final destination. It is no longer “bias” that is their problem. Now it is far more. It is activism, it is influence. They are ruling the country de facto.

Trying to find a candidate or person who fits their paradigm is impossible. There is NO Republican who can survive within their world. They must be destroyed, killed, pulverized by any and all means necessary. They have betrayed this country. I am really considering forming a PAC that does nothing but advertise against the MSM and is in permanent campaign mode. Kill the media and the democrats lose 5% of the vote, easily.

Post of the day! Probably quite a bit more than 5 percent. The entire "Republican war on women" was made up of whole cloth. The Obama campaign was all lies and deception, and the MSM aided and strengthened it.

39 posted on 11/08/2012 1:01:29 AM PST by marktwain
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To: Kevmo

bump


40 posted on 11/08/2012 1:02:42 AM PST by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Little Pig

Re: “Several million Republican voters disappeared.”

Saw an interesting appraisal on that.

The thinking is that virtually the entire GOP campaign was run in just 10 or 12 states.

For instance, here in Washington state I didn’t see one Romney ad after the primaries.

The best way to check this?

Compare 2008 GOP turnout in swing states to 2012 turnout.

If it’s the same or higher for Romney, then we know that turnout collapsed in solidly Red states, perhaps because no one was campaigning there.

If anyone can link me to a database on this, it would save a lot of time.

Thanks.


41 posted on 11/08/2012 1:08:41 AM PST by zeestephen
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To: zeestephen
“Several million Republican voters disappeared.”

It's really that simple. "Conservatives" did not vote. I was one who had stated previously I would NEVER vote for another rino again, but changed my mind to try to save us from the inevitable destruction surely to come from another 4 years of Obama. Others obviously stuck to their principles.

There is no question now nationally RINOS are LOSERS! The Milquetoast RNC/GOP have lost...as they should.

42 posted on 11/08/2012 3:41:15 AM PST by sirchtruth (Freedom is not free.)
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To: Kevmo

Good analysis going forward, but something about the tallies is very suspicious. How did Romney lose every close one in the Swing States?


43 posted on 11/08/2012 4:18:40 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: zeestephen
“The thinking is that virtually the entire GOP campaign was run in just 10 or 12 states.”

I read one analysis yesterday, forget from whom that gave this as one of the major screw ups of the Romney team was that they allowed Obie and his minions to incessantly run negative ads all through the early campaign without countering, saving their ad buys for the final two weeks. Problem is, they had to pay 10 times as much for the ads they did run, and had already allowed the DemonRATs to poison the little minds of the voters with the rich white guy don't care about us mantra.
Second nail in the coffin was allowing the lefties to get away with the “war on women” bs. While I'm certainly appalled at how far down the road to hell the DemonRATs have gone, dancing vagina's and embracing deviants and all,
it was devastatingly painful to watch candidates twist while defending being pro life. It allowed Obama to shift the story off his dismal record.
Finally, the point was made that embracing Paul Ryans budget plan allowed Obie to poison the old folks with the tired old “Romney's gonna take away your benefits” routine, which is guaranteed to work every time it's used.
We do have a problem with an electorate that is more takers than givers. We have an electorate that has a larger percentage of low information / intelligence that are unwilling or unable to understand the depth of the short and long term catastrophe that the politicians have brewed for all of us. And we have allowed the MSM and RINO’s to demonize and dismiss the very folks that tried to restore some sanity to the process, i.e. conservatives in general and the tea party specifically.
We have lots of work to do.

44 posted on 11/08/2012 5:01:20 AM PST by bitterohiogunclinger (Proudly casting a heavy carbon footprint as I clean my guns ---)
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To: RichInOC

It also gets you an advocate media. That’s worth far more than one latte at Starbucks. It’s worth a presidency. Just ask Mitt Romney. If we had run our own historical candidate, a woman, we’d have won.


45 posted on 11/08/2012 6:15:11 AM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: annieokie
2M vowed to vote for Jesus. BECAUSE they did not want either Satan

We could have a hundred years of bad economy, but that pales in comparison to some eternal miseries.

46 posted on 11/09/2012 12:27:12 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Kevmo

As is typical after a disappointing loss, there is finger-pointing galore, and I’ve been as guilty of it as others. But that fact is, there is a large “cult” following for Obama — for whatever reason, because I just don’t “get” it — and that it’s unlikely that whoever runs on that side of the ticket is going to have the same cult status.

There’s still the blatantly partisan media, of course, but it’s not a given that the next ‘rat nominee will be able to match Obama’s turnout.

But there’s also no guarantee that (s)he won’t, either.


47 posted on 11/09/2012 12:31:19 PM PST by kevkrom (If a wise man has an argument with a foolish man, the fool only rages or laughs...)
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To: Kevmo

All the votes haven’t been counted yet. Expect Romney to surpass McCain by the final count. Obama will still be down about 10% of his 2008 total. He was so beatable, and we missed, for reasons that will be debated for ages.


48 posted on 11/09/2012 12:33:19 PM PST by kevkrom (If a wise man has an argument with a foolish man, the fool only rages or laughs...)
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To: Smokin' Joe
We could have a hundred years of bad economy, but that pales in comparison to some eternal miseries."""""....

Very good point, let em stew on that for awhile, and see if their PRINCIPLES work well in that STEW. Let em eat Rock Soup...........

Again I say some Christians are "SO Heavenly Minded they are of NO Earthly Good"......, but boy do they STICK TO THEIR Principles, ain't that just precious?

Those people will pass up 3 boats who come by to get them off their roof in a flood. "NO, they say, God's gonna save me."......They drown......face GOD and ask HIM WHY HE DIDNT SAVE THEM.........GOD says "I sent you 3 boats".

Idiots and they breed. But hey, they stuck to their Principles, uh hmmmmmmmm.

49 posted on 11/09/2012 1:31:06 PM PST by annieokie
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