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Hydrocarbons Could Form Deep In the Earth From Methane, Not Animal Remains
Popular Science ^ | April 15, 2011 | Rebecca Boyle

Posted on 12/25/2012 9:38:49 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

A new study demonstrates how high hydrocarbons could be formed from methane deep within the Earth, aside from the compression and heating of ancient animal remains over the eons. Fused-methane oil would be far less common than your typical petroleum, of course, but the study shows abiogenic hydrocarbons could conceivably occur in some of the planet’s high-pressure and high-temperature zones.

Scientists at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory used supercomputers to simulate what would happen to carbon and hydrogen atoms buried 40 to 95 miles beneath the Earth’s crust, where they would be subjected to prodigious pressures and temperatures.

They found at temperatures greater than 2,240 degrees F and pressures 50,000 times greater than those at the Earth’s surface, methane molecules can fuse to form hydrocarbons with multiple carbon atoms. Interactions with metal or carbon sped up the fusion process, the researchers said. These conditions are present about 70 miles down, according to an LLNL news release.

Methane, CH4, has one carbon and four hydrogen atoms; high hydrocarbons, like propane and butane, have more carbon atoms.

About 99 percent of all the hydrocarbons in oil and natural gas are derived from the compressed, heated remains of ancient living organisms like zooplankton and algae. These critters were buried under layers of sediments five to 10 miles beneath the surface of the Earth.

In the 19th and 20th centuries, some scientists believed hydrocarbons could form from abiogenic (non-biological) processes, too. The existence of methane on several solar system bodies shows hydrocarbons can exist without organic ingredients. But the theory fell out of favor, in part because no one ever found any abiogenic oil deposits...

(Excerpt) Read more at popsci.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Science
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; darklife; energy; gasoline; oil; petroleum; powerfromtheearth; thomasgold

1 posted on 12/25/2012 9:39:04 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The Deep, Hot Biosphere
2 posted on 12/25/2012 9:45:53 PM PST by redhead (America!! Remember who you are!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Unless there used to be dinosaurs on Titan, there have to be other ways of getting methane other than that.


3 posted on 12/25/2012 9:46:48 PM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
But the theory fell out of favor, in part because no one ever found any abiogenic oil deposits...

I believe that abiogenic oil is all they ever found.

4 posted on 12/25/2012 9:51:33 PM PST by eartrumpet
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To: redhead
Yep. Thomas Gold may yet be proven correct.
5 posted on 12/25/2012 9:52:19 PM PST by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Several long depleted oil reservoirs, one off of Florida, have been refilling for no know reason.
Have long suspected that might be the reason.
One of my old bosses (geologist and mechanical engineer) thought that was the case back in the 80s.
6 posted on 12/25/2012 9:54:21 PM PST by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
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To: eartrumpet
I believe that dinosaurs invented light-speed spaceships and travelled to other worlds, where they grew algae and died, creating huge pools of hydrocarbons across the universe. How else would hydrocarbons be found on distant planets???

http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?hpf=1&a_id=122925

7 posted on 12/25/2012 9:56:17 PM PST by PGR88
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
No S#!+?

Jupiter, Saturn and and any number of moons and comets are hip deep in methane and more complex hydrocarbons. Either that's prima facie evidence of ubiquitous life in the outer solar system, or abiotic methane/hydrocarbon formation.

8 posted on 12/25/2012 10:10:45 PM PST by null and void (Going Galt: The won't of the people)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I'll have to go troll some peak oil forums tomm.

No doubt WND and Mr. Corsi are working on some articles for pub.


9 posted on 12/25/2012 10:14:54 PM PST by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Methane, and perhaps some traces of higher carbon molecules are definitely possible in deep planetary interiors. But crude oil is, and will only be found in biogenic sediments.


10 posted on 12/25/2012 10:16:11 PM PST by onedoug
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“...aside from the compression and heating of ancient animal remains over the eons...”

This theory makes no sense at all. How many animals/plants would it take to undergo this compression and heating in order to give us petroleum products for decades? And how this byproduct seeps miles into the earth? Appears to be a fable, not science.


11 posted on 12/25/2012 10:40:23 PM PST by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If certain MOONS in our solar system have LAKES of frozen methane..
not to speak of Saturn and Neptune I would say Duuuuugh..

Methane appears to be a totally natural occurrence..


12 posted on 12/25/2012 10:44:39 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: DennisR

There are countless microfossils and their traces within crude formations. Moreover, there are permeable metamorphic amd igneous structures that could contain crude deposits, but they don’t, unless migration has been accomodated by geophysical contact with crude bearing sediments, but these are exceedingly rare.


13 posted on 12/25/2012 10:58:35 PM PST by onedoug
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To: DennisR

‘Hydrocarbons Could Form Deep In the Earth From Methane, Not Animal Remains’

Always have and always will.


14 posted on 12/25/2012 11:33:26 PM PST by taterjay
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Before people get too excited, from the article:
About 99 percent of all the hydrocarbons in oil and natural gas are derived from the compressed, heated remains of ancient living organisms like zooplankton and algae. These critters were buried under layers of sediments five to 10 miles beneath the surface of the Earth.

15 posted on 12/25/2012 11:51:08 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"These critters were buried under layers of sediments five to 10 miles beneath the surface of the Earth."

NOW I understand ..

It was that sudden dirt rain that buried the first earth, NOT a flood, that caused all this deep in the bowels of the earth stuff.

Dirt rain ..

Gott'a remember that ...

16 posted on 12/25/2012 11:51:50 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: eartrumpet

i first heard this theory about ten years ago and it just made so much sense.
But i am not an expert and am waiting to hear more information, just from an esthetic point of view i hope you are correct


17 posted on 12/26/2012 12:17:53 AM PST by genghis
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To: genghis

The earth replenishes oil just like the body replenishes blood. It’s a natural process that will not stop until the planet itself dies a final death.


18 posted on 12/26/2012 12:34:31 AM PST by MestaMachine (It's the !!!!TREASON!!!!, stupid!)
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To: MestaMachine

That should read the sea replenishes oil just like the body replenishes blood. As long as we have the sea we’ll have oil.


19 posted on 12/26/2012 2:54:46 AM PST by Dusty Road
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To: The Cajun

You can never completely deplete a field.


20 posted on 12/26/2012 2:58:21 AM PST by Dusty Road
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To: DennisR
This theory makes no sense at all.

Yeah, all those geophysicists and geologists who have studied this for hundreds of years have no idea. You have needed only a few minutes of armchair speculation to see right through them and expose them for the frauds they are!

How many animals/plants would it take to undergo this compression and heating in order to give us petroleum products for decades?

Giant (nearly global) forests which existed for hundreds of millions of years, back in the Paleozoic and Mesozoic Eras.

And how this byproduct seeps miles into the earth?

"Gee, and how did those fossilized clamshells get to the mountaintops? Are we supposed to believe that they climbed there somehow? That makes no sense at all!" /s

The Observer Effect: The byproduct didn't "seep" into the Earth - it was covered by, inter alia, orogenic processes (e.g., folding), the repeated retreat and advancing of coastlines, alluvial and aolian processes, etc.

I'm just an interested layperson; I'm sure that a real expert could explain it far better.

Regards,

21 posted on 12/26/2012 3:39:42 AM PST by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: NewJerseyJoe

P4L


22 posted on 12/26/2012 4:35:58 AM PST by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: PA Engineer

Nikolai Alexandrovitch Kudryavtsev


23 posted on 12/26/2012 4:41:12 AM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: MestaMachine

I refer to methane as “earth farts”.


24 posted on 12/26/2012 4:59:19 AM PST by pingman (Step right up and place yer' bets!)
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To: DennisR
How many animals/plants would it take to undergo this compression and heating in order to give us petroleum products for decades?

When pumping gas, I like to count "one brontosaurus, two brontosaurus, three brontosaurus...", as I fill the tank.

25 posted on 12/26/2012 5:00:32 AM PST by Flick Lives (We're going to be just like the old Soviet Union, but with free cell phones!)
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To: Moonman62
These critters were buried under layers of sediments five to 10 miles beneath the surface of the Earth...

Yep, these "critters" took their burials VERY seriously... LOL!

Fact is that there is NO CHANCE that the hydrocarbon stores of planet earth have a biogenic origin, despite the insistence of the traditional minded. First of all, the numbers just don't work out. Secondly, the traces of micro organisms found in many higher molecular weight hydrocarbon deposits did not necessarily precede the existence of the hydrocarbons. And there are quite a few locations were oil has been found in and beneath igneous formations. All in all, the biogenic theory of the formation of high molecular weight hydrocarbons is essentially a fairy tale, and like most fairy tales, they are meant for entertainment, not for edification.

26 posted on 12/26/2012 6:23:04 AM PST by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: onedoug
"...crude oil is, and will only be found in biogenic sediments.

Well, that's it then. No need to continue the thread, we've got the Received Wisdom on the matter.

Thanks for that.

27 posted on 12/26/2012 6:48:49 AM PST by Oberon (Big Brutha Be Watchin'.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I have often written that “peak oil” is a dangerously specious concept because we do not buy crude oil to burn in our cars, trucks and airplanes, we buy a very technical liquid fuel product that is manufactured by breaking down and reassembling the atoms and molecules of hydrocarbon-rich feedstocks.

At present the most economic source of those hydrocarbons is crude oil, but any hydrocarbon-rick source could be used and the ONLY ISSUE IS COST. We are almost literally awash in hydrocarbons from coal, to natgas, to crude oil, to garbage and sewage sludge.

How will environmentalists react to the news that the earth itself is a hydrocarbon factory? They will attempt to suppress their use through fretting about CO2 levels of course. But when Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) becomes a viable source of energy, how will they oppose it? Well, by fretting about waste heat. And thus we will see what “environmentalists” are really concerned about, which is human progress and prosperity.


28 posted on 12/26/2012 7:08:55 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: Oberon

It is supported by evidence. Please indicate any that you have that would contest it.


29 posted on 12/26/2012 7:15:59 AM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug
It is supported by evidence. Please indicate any that you have that would contest it.

My argument isn't empirical; it's epistemological. You speak with the certainty of one who witnessed the formation of the hydrocarbons in person, and I harbor strong doubts that this is in fact the case.

Absent the premise that you were physically present to witness these events, this is what we have: Your assertion is consistent with the current dominant theory on hydrocarbon formation. Your assertion is (presumably; I have no reason to doubt you on this point) defended by evidence that is also consistent with the current dominant theory... granted. It's probably true... also granted.

However, that's the most we can say about it.

30 posted on 12/26/2012 7:24:05 AM PST by Oberon (Big Brutha Be Watchin'.)
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To: onedoug

There is none that can contest it.


31 posted on 12/26/2012 7:28:22 AM PST by Dusty Road
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To: John Valentine
Fact is that there is NO CHANCE that the hydrocarbon stores of planet earth have a biogenic origin,

Your use of CAPS isn't very convincing. I'll stick with the experts on this one.

32 posted on 12/26/2012 9:24:47 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Moonman62
I'll stick with the experts on this one.

Don't you really mean that you will stick with the experts of your choice, and ignore all the others?

33 posted on 12/26/2012 9:52:34 AM PST by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: onedoug
It is supported by evidence. Please indicate any that you have that would contest it.

OK, how about explaining the "sulphur problem".

i.e., all oil contains sulphur. But sulphur is found in no significant amounts in any biological organisms; it's a volcanic product from deep in the earth. So how did it get in the oil?

Yah, I know, the oil geologists explain it by saying sulfide deposits were beside the oil, and it seeped in. But every single oil deposit? Isn't that a bit of a coincidence?

And if it seeped in, wouldn't the distribution be uneven? i.e., higher near the edges, less near the center? Yet analysis of all oil produced shows that the sulfur content is always evenly distributed.

Care to explain?


34 posted on 12/26/2012 10:33:36 AM PST by canuck_conservative
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To: Dusty Road
You can never completely deplete a field.

True that, but if you can't produce it and turn a profit anymore, it's considered depleted.
Lots of older wells are P&A'ed because of pressure drop off or watering out and no amount of remedial work will help that zone produce again.
Had that happen on a well that produced on my property for over 30 years (part of Chacahoula oil and gas field).
They ran a TDT (Thermal decay tool), found that zone had watered out totally, but found another zone 2000ft. up the hole they had missed when equipment wasn't as sophisticated, plugged the old zone, perforated the new zone and cha-ching, viable well again, but different zone.
The outfit I worked for did a lot of work of that type on older *played out* wells in the Chacahoula field.

35 posted on 12/26/2012 11:52:29 AM PST by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
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To: silverleaf

Thanks. Reading up on his works (at least the english translations) now.


36 posted on 12/26/2012 12:23:22 PM PST by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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To: canuck_conservative
From the Wikipedia article on sulfer:
Sulfur is an essential element for all life, and is widely used in biochemical processes. In metabolic reactions, sulfur compounds serve as both fuels and respiratory (oxygen-alternative) materials for simple organisms. Sulfur in organic form is present in the vitamins biotin and thiamine, the latter being named for the Greek word for sulfur. Sulfur is an important part of many enzymes and in antioxidant molecules like glutathione and thioredoxin. Organically bonded sulfur is a component of all proteins, as the amino acids cysteine and methionine. Disulfide bonds are largely responsible for the mechanical strength and insolubility of the protein keratin, found in outer skin, hair, and feathers, and the element contributes to their pungent odor when burned.

Crude oil is graded by type on its sulfur content, which varies from formation to formation. So it shouldn't really seem so odd that it would vary depending on the biogenic nature of buried material.

37 posted on 12/26/2012 3:05:37 PM PST by onedoug
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To: 75thOVI; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; ...

Thanks 2ndDivisionVet.
The existence of methane on several solar system bodies shows hydrocarbons can exist without organic ingredients.
Hydrocarbons are organic -- that should be "can exist without organisms" or something along those lines.




38 posted on 12/27/2012 3:53:58 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: MestaMachine

It wont make one bit of difference unless the replenishment rate is comparable to the consumption rate.


39 posted on 12/27/2012 4:08:11 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize - Voltaire)
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To: SunkenCiv

Hydrocarbons are the basic building blocks of the universe.


40 posted on 12/27/2012 4:22:25 PM PST by marron
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To: Perdogg

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2705958/posts


41 posted on 12/28/2012 9:35:56 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: null and void

I just produced a small amount of methane myself.


42 posted on 12/28/2012 9:40:55 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: DennisR

I would say if every living thing that ever existed were to be compressed and heated it would not account for the small sea of oil found so far. Most biological material decays into gasses before being buried naturally.


43 posted on 12/28/2012 9:43:49 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Flick Lives

OK...now I know what I will be doing next time...ha!


44 posted on 12/29/2012 6:30:27 PM PST by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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