Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

So, Only the Police Should Have Guns, Right?
PJ Tatler ^ | February 15, 2013 | Bryan Preston

Posted on 02/15/2013 12:26:17 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Ohio AG Mike DeWine is releasing evidence from an incident involving Cleveland police officers that took place in November. It started with a car chase. Then, it escalated. Badly.

CLEVELAND, Ohio — A November car chase ended in a “full blown-out” firefight, with glass and bullets flying, according to Cleveland police officers who described for investigators the chaotic scene at the end of the deadly 25-minute pursuit.

But when the smoky haze — caused by rapid fire of nearly 140 bullets in less than 30 seconds — dissipated, it soon became clear that more than a dozen officers had been firing at one another across a middle school parking lot in East Cleveland.

Both the passenger and the driver of the car were killed in the fierce firefight. Neither, it turns out, were armed.

So what happened? Well, it turns out that the 13 police officers who fired were shooting at each other. So when they thought they were under fire, they were — just from their own fellow officers.

It was all a case of mistakes piling up on top of one another.

Officers recounted for investigators seeing guns, objects that looked like guns or one of the suspects loading guns in the middle school parking lot — which could not have been possible at that point in the incident. No gun was found in the car.

Some also believed that one officer who ducked behind a car that was hit by the Malibu was either run over or shot – heightening their fears.

The report also shows that many of the officers’ worries were based on possibly erroneous information broadcast over police radio to the approximately 60 police vehicles involved in the chase...

(Excerpt) Read more at pjmedia.com ...


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; lawenforcement; ohio; police; secondamendment
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-128 next last
Comments?
1 posted on 02/15/2013 12:26:29 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Understandable mistake, considering the stress and all. Move on, nothing to see here.


2 posted on 02/15/2013 12:30:17 PM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

One other thought. The innocents would have been guilty if they did have a gun.


3 posted on 02/15/2013 12:31:54 PM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I heard that one-third of the Cleveland police force was involved-on one side or the other. This is hardly the case of a bad apple panicking.


4 posted on 02/15/2013 12:33:08 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

No, “law enforcement officers” should not be armed. Get rid of them, the swat teams and the laws that make them more equal than the rest of us rabble. Go back to having Peace Officers that aren’t a bunch of badge heavy thugs.


5 posted on 02/15/2013 12:33:32 PM PST by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
So, Only the Police Should Have Guns, Right?

if cops will be the only people allowed to carry a gun then they'll require a permit for us to carry a cop

6 posted on 02/15/2013 12:38:35 PM PST by drypowder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

What can you say? From what I’m hearing of these kinds of incidents, it seems pretty clear that police departments around the country need more, and more realistic training. Of course, the department leaders won’t spend the money to get them trained and prevent incidents like this.


7 posted on 02/15/2013 12:39:49 PM PST by Hardastarboard (The Liberal ruling class hates me. The feeling is mutual.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

In these stories, I always feel bad for the passenger, in this case a female, maybe dating the guy?

She goes out with the wrong guy, he reacts stupidly to a traffic stop, and then, just like blacks are always taught, all the police start chasing them and shooting at them.

And while the driver can be faulted because he should have stayed stopped in his vehicle and let the police to their job, so far as we can tell, the female did absolutely nothing. She was a hostage to the guy, and she was gunned down.

But the police reports will never call the passenger of a car a “hostage”. Even though it is clear from this report that she never had a chance to get out, once he decided to flee the initial stop. The car was always going at a high speed, until it stopped in the parking lot, where a police officer shot at HER. Would you jump out of a car when, without warning, a police officer just starting shooting you?

At that point, you might also feel bad for the guy. He made a lot of stupid decisions, but maybe when he got to the parking lot, he realized it was up. Maybe his girl was saying “just stop, give up, let me out.”. And then some police officer starts shooting — not at you, but at your girlfriend, who did nothing wrong. Maybe she was hit at that point, and he realized if they were going to survive, he HAD to get out.


8 posted on 02/15/2013 12:45:59 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT

Just to be clear, if you read the entire prosecuter’s summary, you’ll find that the female is certainly no innocent female, having multiple run-ins with the law.

None of which have any bearing on what happened on this particular evening, and none of which could have influenced the police in making decisions, because they had no idea who was in the car.

My point being that the police made a decision that the passenger was a participant in mayhem, but in this case that was a bad assumption. All because of a car backfire...


9 posted on 02/15/2013 12:50:21 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT
I remember an incident in Fort Wayne, Indiana, where plainclothes cops jumped out of a car and ordered the occupants out. Picture blue jeans and flannel shirt, carrying a shotgun and just "Out of the car!" One dude was so scared he started running. He was shot in the back. Late 1970's.

It was mistaken identity on the law enforcement's part. The guy was in a similar looking car.

I would guess that over the past decade, there are hundreds of incidents where an innocent is killed or wounded by the police.

10 posted on 02/15/2013 12:52:36 PM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Chased? Who was chased?


11 posted on 02/15/2013 12:54:29 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hardastarboard; 2ndDivisionVet
From what I’m hearing of these kinds of incidents, it seems pretty clear that police departments around the country need more, and more realistic training.

How did our free American Republic get along without ANY police departments before the late 1800s?

12 posted on 02/15/2013 1:13:24 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

13 posted on 02/15/2013 1:14:35 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Scarier yet is how quickly everyone simultaneously ran out of ammo.

Obviously if you reduce magazine sizes to 7 rounds, we won’t have to worry about 30 second firefights, we could reduce that down to 3-7 seconds - making sure no one ever gets injured.

Going back under my bridge now.

14 posted on 02/15/2013 1:27:35 PM PST by exit82b
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Duh,,,


15 posted on 02/15/2013 1:31:49 PM PST by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

A total monopoly on force by the police misses the underlying purpose of police.

Every adult citizen of good character *are* the law. The police are hired guns to do the anti-crime work that the public does not want to do.

This means to keep the watch 24/7, to clean up and collect evidence at crime scenes, and to doggedly pursue and formally apprehend criminals.

So saying that only the police should have guns is foolish, like saying that only carpenters should have carpentry tools, or only gardeners should have lawn and garden tools.


16 posted on 02/15/2013 1:42:52 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Just like the LAPD in the Dorner episode.
Fear
Poor Training
Affirmative Action
Political Correctness
All lead to civilian collateral damage.


17 posted on 02/15/2013 1:45:25 PM PST by Tupelo (Hunkered down & loading up)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

why do cops have guns?

It’s not to protect the public, it’s to protect themselves.


18 posted on 02/15/2013 1:55:00 PM PST by READINABLUESTATE ("We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately." - Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hardastarboard

Training can’t make up for low quality people who are fearful and don’t have good judgment, yet who are armed with guns, badges and union and government protection, and sent to work daily among city folk in a complex society.


19 posted on 02/15/2013 1:58:33 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: kiryandil

I wonder if sheriff departments tend to be as whacky and kill crazy as city police.


20 posted on 02/15/2013 2:02:19 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
Training can’t make up for low quality people who are fearful and don’t have good judgment, yet who are armed with guns, badges and union and government protection, and sent to work daily among city folk in a complex society.

military.com posted the top 5 most popular jobs for ex-military personnel.

1. Information Technology Specialist

2. Police Officer

Police officers, like military members, must possess qualities of loyalty and discipline while serving their community. Many of the physical tools military personnel acquired in training would also translate effectively into areas of law enforcement.

Dorner was Navy Reserve and one of his victim LEOs was a former Marine.

21 posted on 02/15/2013 2:03:43 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’ve been in law enforcement for over 16 years. Been a firearms instructor for a since 2005. Most people have this illusion that cops are these highly trained ninjas that can hit a flea at 100 yards. Hardly the case Free Republic folks. The job has changed over the years. More like a ‘jobs program’ that gives a steady paycheck and a pension, than folks actually wanting to go out there and do the job. Think about someone who can retire in their early to mid 40’s, and make close to or over 6 figures in the process.

A lot of departments have gone from documenting the ‘scores’ from the range to just documenting ‘pass or fail’. That way you’ll never be able to tell if the person passed by .5% point or scored 100%. If you fail, normally you just get remedial training but are still allowed back out, until your training is done.

I got into a back and forth w/ someone on here that was a retired corrections officer. His assertion was that he deserved more rights because of his job. I completely disagree. He CHOSE the job. They didn’t pick him up at the busstop and force him. He isn’t any different than anyone else, nor am i or any other cop.

Anywho, I wasn’t there. Can’t say for sure what happened, but I’m quite sure after the lawsuit they’ll be some training coming in the near future for Cleveland cops. The effect? They’ll be hesitant and unwilling to do their jobs for fear of more lawsuits, etc.


22 posted on 02/15/2013 2:13:00 PM PST by qaz123
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kiryandil

“How did our free American Republic get along without ANY police departments before the late 1800s? “

It was a more armed society, and a more polite society. Decency is disappearing in our country


23 posted on 02/15/2013 2:14:47 PM PST by Figment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

Interesting decision from SCOTUS


24 posted on 02/15/2013 2:15:07 PM PST by qaz123
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: exit82b

That 82b wouldn’t happen to be on I-40?


25 posted on 02/15/2013 2:18:19 PM PST by Figment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf

Which has nothing to do with my point about too many, perhaps the majority of police.

Training can’t make up for low quality people who are fearful and don’t have good judgment, yet who are armed with guns, badges and union and government protection, and sent to work daily among city folk in a complex society.


26 posted on 02/15/2013 2:21:08 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: kiryandil
How did our free American Republic get along without ANY police departments before the late 1800s?

We are more civilized now./s We don't allow witch hunts, hangings, duels and placing people in stockades.

27 posted on 02/15/2013 2:23:13 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Comments?

This is an interesting read, and it will take a while to digest it. I did find this passage strange:

At approximately 10:26 p.m., Jordan radioed his dispatch center, requesting Ohio license plate “FSA3495” (Timothy Russell’s vehicle) be run for “info,” stating the vehicle was parked at East 22nd and Lakeside. Dispatch advised Jordan that it checked “clean,” providing the year, make, and color of the vehicle, along with the name and city of the registered owner and expiration date of the registration.

In his second interview, Officer Jordan told investigators that he initiated a traffic stop of the subject vehicle on East 18th Street, between Rockwell and Superior, after observing a turn signal violation. He stated his intention was to investigate the occupants of the vehicle, believing they were involved in illegal drug activity.

The vehicle stopped for several seconds, during which Jordan claimed the passenger was screaming and acting unstable. Shortly after Jordan exited his vehicle, but before approaching the subject vehicle to make contact with the occupants, the vehicle accelerated away, turning right onto Superior Avenue.

Though Officer Jordan pursued, he eventually lost sight of the subject vehicle on Superior Avenue.

He did not report this to dispatch nor did he become involved in the subsequent pursuit or shooting incident which followed. There is also no evidence that any officer involved in the subsequent pursuit or shooting was aware of Officer Jordan’s prior contact with the subject vehicle.

I find it hard to believe that Jordan just topped pursuit...never reported it & never called anyone...
28 posted on 02/15/2013 2:30:19 PM PST by Half Vast Conspiracy (Based on a letter from an 8 year old…school is now illegal…”cuz it’s yuckey and dumb".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT

“My point being that the police made a decision that the passenger was a participant in mayhem, but in this case that was a bad assumption. All because of a car backfire...”

Look before you leap is a good idea when gunfire is involved. The number of shots fired in combat has increased dramatically since WWII so how many of these guys are vets. It’s the cops that need the 7 round magazines. Most that I’ve seen shoot, including SWAT, are awful. According to Dept of Labor stats it is much more dangerous being a teacher than a COP and don’t even compare them to truck drivers and the guy cutting your lawn as it gets really embarassing.


29 posted on 02/15/2013 2:40:58 PM PST by A Strict Constructionist (We're an Oligrachy...Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

“So what happened? Well, it turns out that the 13 police officers who fired were shooting at each other. So when they thought they were under fire, they were — just from their own fellow officers.”

They should all go to prison for firing on a police officer.
Imagine, your pulled over by the fuzz and a tire blows out on
a truck passing near by, what are your chances of survival?


30 posted on 02/15/2013 2:51:13 PM PST by Slambat (The right to keep and bear arms. Anything one man can carry, drive or pull.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
Which has nothing to do with my point about too many, perhaps the majority of police.

The military is one of the main sources of police recruits. The same people you state, "Training can’t make up for low quality people who are fearful and don’t have good judgment, yet who are armed with guns, badges and union and government protection, and sent to work daily among city folk in a complex society"

31 posted on 02/15/2013 3:09:01 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf

Again, it has nothing to with my point about too many, perhaps the majority of police.

Training can’t make up for low quality people who are fearful and don’t have good judgment, yet who are armed with guns, badges and union and government protection, and sent to work daily among city folk in a complex society.


32 posted on 02/15/2013 3:15:04 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf; kiryandil

I don’t believe the American Republic ever had witch hunts.


33 posted on 02/15/2013 3:23:24 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
I don’t believe the American Republic ever had witch hunts.

[PDF] The Changing Faces of Witch Hunting in America The Changing Faces of Witch Hunting in America: Bias in the United States Topic: Witch hunts from 1692 to the present.

Michelle A. Dorian Elizabeth M. Mackin

34 posted on 02/15/2013 3:27:41 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
low quality people who are fearful and don’t have good judgment, yet who are armed with guns,

Is that how you describe military personnel that are police recruits?

35 posted on 02/15/2013 3:33:44 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf

I not interested in the centuries before the United States existed.


36 posted on 02/15/2013 3:51:11 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf

Yet again, it has nothing to with my point about too many, perhaps the majority of police.

Training can’t make up for low quality people who are fearful and don’t have good judgment, yet who are armed with guns, badges and union and government protection, and sent to work daily among city folk in a complex society.

What is with you, post after post to me about nothing since I posted post 19 to someone else.


37 posted on 02/15/2013 3:54:22 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf
We don't allow witch hunts, hangings, duels and placing people in stockades.

Seig fracking heil! Das Amerikanische Polizei Staten Über Alles!

38 posted on 02/16/2013 10:46:22 AM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf

BTW - Dorner 4, LAPD gunthugs 1...


39 posted on 02/16/2013 10:47:08 AM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
I not interested in the centuries before the United States existed.

LOL! Witch hunts from 1692 to the present. Then try the years after 1776 or 1783.

40 posted on 02/16/2013 1:06:38 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
What is with you

Facts and accuracy, which apparently mean nothing to you. Are you employed by the MSM?

41 posted on 02/16/2013 1:11:12 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: kiryandil
BTW - Dorner 4, LAPD gunthugs 1

I take it you're an obnoxious drunk or a supporter of murderers of innocent people. Either way, you're a loser like Dorner.

42 posted on 02/16/2013 1:19:42 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: kiryandil
Du bist ein Verlierer
43 posted on 02/16/2013 1:24:14 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf; kiryandil
[PDF] The Changing Faces of Witch Hunting in America The Changing Faces of Witch Hunting in America: Bias in the United States Topic: Witch hunts from 1692 to the present.
Michelle A. Dorian Elizabeth M. Mackin

Here is the list of American "witch hunts" from your source, that you find so damning against Americans.

Objective:
™ To examine bias and ‘witch-hunting’ in its myriad forms.
™ To use internet cites in the development of research writing.
™ To analyze cites for validity and purpose.
™ To develop strong essays through collaborative work.
Assignment:
The following is a list of available research topics based on our reading
and discussions about The Crucible. Select your topic and begin research.
Time period: Ten 80 minute blocks.
Teen Bashing Gay Marriages
Gay Bashing Japanese American Internment Camps
Red Lining Racial Profiling
Ethnic Profiling Arab American Discrimination
McCarthyism The Holocaust

Aside from your embracing of the left above, also don't try to use old British actions of the 1600s to smear the United States nation.

44 posted on 02/16/2013 1:35:55 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
you find so damning....your embracing of the left

Damning, embracing of the left? LOL Where did you come up with that BS? You are worse than the MSM!

45 posted on 02/16/2013 1:48:57 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
-- Alaska Wolf wrote: LOL! Witch hunts from 1692 to the present. Then try the years after 1776 or 1783. --

The Changing Faces of Witch Hunting in America: Michelle A. Dorian Elizabeth M. Mackin.

Link to the cited piece, in case you'd like to peruse it for yourself. Approx 430 kB pdf file.

It's a project undertaken by two 8th grade teachers, and is a review of various types of discrimination and blacklisting. The students first read The Crucible for exposure to the Salem witch trials, the teachers provide more contemporary material (McCarthy, the WWII Japanese internment camps, and others), and the students are tasked with some research and writing news articles.

I don't know the point of arguing over when (or whether or not) the government or private bodies stopped undertake witch hunts, but on looking at the piece cited, one finds it standing for the proposition that the practice of "witch" hunting never stopped.

The definition of "witch" is considerably broadened, of course, and the point is to draw parallels between late 1600's witch hunting and present day biases. Note the article is about the changing face of witch hunting.

46 posted on 02/16/2013 1:49:09 PM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf
I take it you're an obnoxious drunk or a supporter of murderers of innocent people. Either way, you're a loser like Dorner.

As for "supporter of murderers of innocent people" I believe the score there was LAPD gunthugs 3, Dorner 2 - given that the intent of the lawless crazed LAPD gunthugs was to murder 3 innocent people in the Dorner manhunt.

The guy up at Big Bear who ratted out Dorner was lucky the gunthugs didn't shoot his dog, just for laughs & practice...

BTW - Dorner taught those who were paying attention that the gunthugs don't wear camo - they end up inadvertently wearing brown & yellow pants...

47 posted on 02/16/2013 7:45:39 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf
Du bist ein Verlierer

You don't know me well enough to use the familiar, Herr Wolf.

48 posted on 02/16/2013 7:47:30 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: kiryandil
You don't know me well enough

I'll determine that, loser LIEberTARDian.

49 posted on 02/16/2013 7:55:22 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf

lol.

I have also used “Libetopian” and “Liberturdian”


50 posted on 02/16/2013 7:56:40 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-128 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson