Skip to comments.Vanity: Is the UK, the US's closest Ally? Or is that the face they put on?
Posted on 02/16/2013 9:58:43 PM PST by cab1982Edited on 02/16/2013 10:01:01 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Now the topic may be way out of place here or even cause people to get angry. That's not my intent, my intent is to explain how it seems that the UK is not a friend to most US Citizens (I will admit maybe my situation has made me bias). Let me start from the beginning, I will try not to have a thousand details.
On September 12th, 2012 I arrived in the UK (with a legal visitor's visa) with my wife (who is a British Citizen) and our daughter. The purpose of coming here was so that she could live here with family (my wife suffers from some medical conditions and wanted to stay with her mother) and get help taking care of our daughter (along with her getting to see this side of her family), while I went to work (I normally work the IT Contract jobs and they have me shifting around a lot). Upon arrival everything was going fine, my daughter was settling in (as well as can be expected for a 3 year old). We were in the process of trying to get her to sleep in her own bed which takes awhile, moreso when you are in a new place. Most nights it took about 2 hours of her throwing a screaming fit before she tired out and went to bed. Overtime it slowly got better, but the fits still happened. On October 13th, she decided to kick up a really big fuss come bed time and both myself and the wife tried many things to calm her down.
During my daughter's fits, she got up and threw an toy at her mother, who spanked her on the butt. That caused her to scream 'Daddy, help me.' and I saw my wife spank her, which wasn't hard or anything. I decided to just bare through her cries, because she wasn't hurt and giving in makes it worse. About 15 minutes later a Police Officer shows up due to the neighbors calling because of what the daughter screamed. The officer checked her out and saw she was fine and then left. A couple of weeks pass and we get a visit from the UK's version of Child Services doing what they call a routine followup. We explained what happened and such and it seemed fine. A couple of days went by and they came back and soon was attacking my wife at first for coming back into the UK and not as soon as she touched down jumping on the government tit. After a few minutes they began to ask me questions, more so about my line of work and my former job (Worked as a Civilian Contractor in Iraq), upon discovering I was a US Citizen they began to attack both myself and the things the US does or doesn't do about children.
I just listened not agreeing or anything (because the place we where staying isn't mine) and after awhile they told my wife they would be back with a list of requirements that needed to be met so that our daughter was fine. Well a few weeks past (they never returned my wife's calls and such) before they return (it is third week in November by this time). They begin to rail the wife again about why she hasn't done this and this, and she tries to explain that she has attempted to get the information from them (register for a GP, nursery, etc). Well my wife looks around, makes requests etc (she can't drive and most people in the UK seem to use public transport) and she finally finds a doctor and does the registering. Looking for a nursery is harder because they are all filled so they tell her to check back in the new year. While all that is going on, we get notice that we got to pack up a lot of the things we unpacked because work is going to be done on the place we are living in. So no problem we pack all the stuff up and play shift the boxes around when the workmen need access to each things.
By this time it is the first week in December and the all so helpful (full of #### is more like it and all contact to the US Embassy has either gotten me bad info or told to just cooperate and make sure they get copies of everything) CS comes around again. They begin to railroad the wife for the millionth time, they seemed to be pissed because I spoke to my wife about just returning to the US with the daughter and she was ok with it. CS informs my wife that the boxes are not acceptable but the people doing the work on the place won't do the work if the stuff isn't boxed up (I found out about this time my mother-in-law gets help with house repairs from the city, which is fine, she pays her taxes and that's part of the services they offer). Well it becomes a war between the repair people and the CS people both saying the other ones don't matter. About this time since all this massive work is going on downstairs, it's decided to only make sure the bedrooms were we are staying (so we aren't in the way) remain warm, since the doors are being opened and left open by the workmen and running the heat downstairs would be a massive waste of money.
Finally we roll around to what I call D-day. On the 14th of December here comes CS rolling in, talking to my wife, bitching about the boxes and why aren't they unpacked (the workmen just finishing the work, as the CS arrived). She explained to them the work just GOT finished so we haven't had time to do anything. They step outside and come back a few minutes later with the police and tell us they are taking our daughter because stuff is in boxes (well this is what the Police say) and that once we get it straightened out (boxes unpacked). I can understand that and all (it wouldn't have mattered either way), so that night and through the weekend we get stuff unpacked and straightened up and put up. Come that Monday we call CS and tell them everything is done and then we get this entire freaking rant about my wife and that she's stupid, retarded, etc and that they were worried that I was going to return to the US with my daughter and that the US is no country to raise a child, much less a daughter in because They watch TV and see what's going on. At this time I'm pissed off but it's the Christmas week and everything is mainly shut down.
The US Embassy again tells me to cooperate with them and go through motions and all. Me and the wife do all of this and soon we are told yet another range of issues they have (mostly involving I won't give them more details about my work in Iraq and my family details as my family has asked me not to, and the final thing they are unable to get any information on me from the US). Then they get pissed off when the hospitals and doctor's offices in the US refuse to break the law and spill everything they know to them. The CS then say Well if the US is not willing to share, then we refuse to allow you to ever take your daughter back to that much of a backwards country. I just grit my teeth and decide to let the lawyer I got here in the UK handle it. Weeks pass as the CS stalls to do everything including getting it into court.
Finally this week I got into court and the first thing I get is my passport seized for safety reasons. Then I get told by the court once my visa up (I know this) that I have to leave without my daughter and that the judge can order me to give anything she wants (including making me waive any rights I have in the US) to the CS people. After court I spoke to the US Embassy yet again and got the same canned line about Cooperation is the best so that if we have to get involved it's at the point that you have done everything you could.
That's my story so far, now I ask you is this the sign of a country that is suppose to be our closest ally? That their own agencies insult the US and tell a US Citizen that they are trash if they vote for the wrong party? I am hoping some fellow Americans could offer any other ideas or support that I may not be seeing as possible. The only thing a couple of my friends came up with is going to EU courts since the UK likes to say Hey we are a member of the EU!
Britain may have once filled the bill but were I to name just one country that has our back, it would be Canada, from the Cold War forward. Sure, they sat out Iraq, but frankly, everyone should have sat out Iraq.
I’m Canadian and I would say you are 100% correct. But we will call BS on the US also.
Well, some of their media is on our side more than ours is.
The US is not a friend to most US citizens. The US is not a friend to anything but Soviet-style AQ-islamists.
Where have you been the last 4 years?
The trouble is that Canada is too small to have anyone’s back, militarily or internationally, they can be a friend, and helpful, but they don’t register much on the list of countries that can have your back.
Britain still has some power and reach.
British friendship for about the last 95 years has mostly involved how to use the wealth and vast military power of the USA to achieve British ends.
They feel this is natural, because for they are convinced to the point of arrogance that they are morally superior, and more world wise than the USA.
The main reason they jump in with a token force in our military actions, is to have a seat at the table for their senior officers and to be able to influence events in which we do the heavy lifting.
None of this is to disparage British military men at the enlisted and lower commisioned levels, or the many decent British people who count themselves as our friends. But the upper echelons of their Governmental and banking establishment is highly cynical, and is not a friend of the USA.
The fact they let hundreds of planes land in Canada on 9/11, says a lot.
Canada is getting very rich. No news from there eh?
Agreed about Canada. Probably one of the best friends we have, And in that friendship, it’s usually us not acting like the dependable friend.
That would be the time to be very quiet
Having gone through somewhat similar experiences on this side of the pond and still having bad feelings towards CPS as a result, all I can say is -it’s not just the UK courts that have it in for you. They may make disparaging remarks about the US, but it is no more pleasant when the CPS courts here assume the worst about you simply because you are a heterosexual male and you have little recourse once they set their sights on you.
What do you mean?
The CS sounds like our Child Protective Services. They seem to be everywhere. Why go to UK when you can be abused by petty bureaucrats right here?
I agree. I like Canada and I think Canada is a very good friend to the USA.
I think Israel is our finest ally.... lately it’s become hard for them to love us.. with Zero at the helm.. sigh :-(
However, woe to any non-relative who tries to attack one of them.
Agreed about the British press. For a nation with a government that does the things theirs does, and the fact that they have brought 1984 to life, parts of the British press utterly leave ours in the dust.
Several times this year, i get a far better understanding of an American news story by reading it in the British newspapers.
It’s a weird aspect of this friendship.
What the hell are you still doing there? I’m sorry to tell you this is widespread in Europe. You would find the same thing in Sweden and Austria. They treat you like crap for several reasons, few of which are worth getting into.
We have deep cultural ties to all of Europe, especially the UK, which is obviously where we get our language from. You have to understand that despite this, a large group of people (possibly a majority) in ALL of these nations despise America. Why? The same reason they despise Israel. The state-controlled media (in Britain, the BBC) is controlled by Marxists who encourage an atmosphere of arrogance. Europeans succumbed to the Social Democrat model of socialism after the fall of the Soviet Union, and it has failed them. Even Germany is on a decline now, as Greece lies in rubble. It’s hard for them to admit this has failed, because for them, it means they have failed. This is why those individuals accused the US of being “backward” for its doctors, despite the fact that the National Health Service is a bankrupt mess providing terrible care in beds crawling with MRSA, various bodily fluids dripping from ceilings. They are trying to make themselves feel better about the state of their nation by attacking you (bear in mind though, the US is not far behind Europe).
What you have in the UK is one of the most decayed cultures in Europe. I would leave as soon as you can. There are some British people who are good-natured and are in tune with what’s going on, but they make up a minority. Most of the population are the product of atheism, perverse culture, government dependency, and a lack of identity.
Think of how you might turn out if you actually believed Obama’s BS, and then woke up one day to find that your identity had been sold to pan-national socialists and invading Muslims, your drip-feed of benefits was gone and you no longer knew how to be a productive citizen, and all that a ‘secular’ society turned away from those ‘old world anti-science’ ideas of faith had brought you was having to cross the street to avoid the gang of feral 12 year olds attacking an old woman. You might just come out of that pretty messed up as well.
Is Britain one of our top allies? No. Not really. Don’t get me wrong, I wish it was. During the Thatcher days, things were very good, but everything has changed. All the UK is now is a pissed off fringe member of the EUSSR, hung with all the neo-Marxist decorations, but a little more whiny than the others. It’s a police state that routinely violates its people’s rights (not that many of them give a damn). They don’t like Americans (especially conservative Americans) because they’ve been told not to, just as they have been told that there is no God, abortion is fun, and gay marriage is a civil right issue. Oh, and don’t forget that third world immigrants make Britain a more ‘vibrant’ society.
I have come to the conclusion that this all won’t change until a total collapse occurs. I’m talking Wiemar. The house must be destroyed and rebuilt again. Come back to America. At least here, there is a cohesive opposition to the progressive socialist cabal. You really have to dig deep to find clear thinkers in the UK.
Sorry your suffering :(
All Western nations are in rapid decline. Coming back to the States is not going to help this individual in the long term. We are as sick as the UK is. In 20 or 30 years only parts of eastern Europe & the cone of South America will have any chance of keeping Western culture alive.
February 16, 2013... Borned
Canada’s Navy is bigger than the Royal Navy. And the British army now actually has more Generals than it does battle tanks.
Britain realistically has no more “reach”. Their forces are a shadow of 25 years ago. Realistically they couldnt do the Falklands again. The best they coud do would be to play defense. Their Offensive capability is gone. No Carriers, No Harriers, No Vulcan strategic bombers. Nothing bigger than a Typhoon. They couldn’t strike the mainland except with sublaunched cruise missiles.
They have obviously decided that they will only send a few units of infantry and Helos to anything we do and will never fight big war again. Sadly, they are probably correct as they are flooded over with Muslims.
Good point. I suspect CPS types are the same in every semi modern nation. Extremists who generally are very suspicious and abusive of men and christians.
Uh...this is more a dissertation on what the US is BECOMING....
The reason I’m still here is I want my daughter back. I want to leave, but it doesn’t look like they plan to allow me to even leave with her if I get her back. I have no idea of all my options as the lawyer I got here has said if I want to leave when I get her back, that’s a different aspect of law or something.
I just have a gut feeling if I leave and try to fight the fight against them US side I won’t ever see my daughter again. These SOBs seem like the type to instantly label me returning to the US as (not that I could right now even if I wanted to since my passport is being held for “safety” reason) abandoning my daughter.
As an American living in Canada and following the news, I agree with both of you.
Go with your gut; do not leave without your daughter.
You need to go public with this. Get it on the news somehow. If you are legit and truly love your daughter, you would be screaming from the rooftops. Then again, I tend to be a Mama Grizzly if you mess with my family. Good luck.
You need to just leave that benighted country (and your lawyer is right, do NOT step foot outside the country without your daughter and wife right there beside you — it might take years to get you all together again). But you need to leave. ASAP. You are on the CS radar and they will never leave you alone now. As soon as you all three can get out, do so. Send for your stuff later. They’ll never be able to extradite you from the U.S. on such a flimsy case, but CS might manage to hold onto your daughter for a long, long time. So just concentrate on getting you and your family out and worry about your household goods later.
As for how to get out, it strikes me that the best way is to *make* the U.S. Embassy get involved, just long enough to get your passport back and then hightail it out of there. Of course the Embassy doesn’t *want* to get involved in your case: It involves actual work on their part, plus their helping you might upset some apple cart or other.
I suggest strongly that you sit down and make a list of everyone you know who might possibly know a bigwig who can intervene on your behalf with the U.S. Embassy, and get them working for you. For instance, start with your own congresscritters back home and ask what they can do for you. (Be very pleasant!! Even piteous. Pretend you voted for them, if you have to. Just try to get them to help you.) Try to think if you have any State Dept. contacts, or relatives or friends or old coworkers who might know someone. Try to think if you know anyone who knows someone who has *lots* of money (because millionaires tend to be listened to). If you think someone you know *might* know someone who could pull strings for you, call or email them and ask. Be bold! Ask everyone if they know anyone who might know someone who might know someone.
I’ve really come to realize that so much of what goes on in the world really IS a result of “who you know, not what you know.” So get on the stick and pursue every single possibility of someone who can lean on the Embassy and get them to help you. Because I’ll bet they could do a lot if they simply would.
I hope this helps. Best of luck!!! Let us know how it goes.
If by bigger, you mean "half the size", you are correct.
The bigger problem Canada's navy has is major Obsolescence , continual studies for replacements that never get built. The average age of major surface combatants is 23 years. None are younger than 17. They fly (when they can-reliability isn't great) the oldest SeaKings in the world, more than 40 years old,
Oh, and if I can give you one pleasant thought for this; make sure, if you manage to get away from the brit courts for a time, you do not forget to flash a 'V'-for-Victory hand-signal to them. Some old-fashioned types tend to still regard this as the equivalent of the US Digitus Impudicus sign. But of course, as an American, you have no concept of improper British slang. *cough, cough*
I was wondering when someone would notice....*smiles*
Well, they have Me on both counts, there.
Thanks. I was worried about going too public with this with the fear that they would turn it into a full blown attack upon me and my family. But the more I think about it, the more I am starting to realize it may be wise, to involve more media and such.
My ancestors started leaving that country four hundred years ago. “It was for the protection of that country.”
“If by bigger, you mean “half the size”, you are correct. “
I think he meant “negative one/half bigger.”
There was a 1991 movie with a similar plot, but it was set in Iran:
1) Get your daughter a US passport.
2) Move out of their jurisdiction. (ie: Out of London, where ever)
My advice? Do not leave your daughter. Family is #1. Stay and fight. The only way you have a chance is to get good legal help and prepare for the long fight. Keeping your family together is worth it. If you’re lucky enough to come out of this with your daughter and wife, leave the UK as soon as possible. Once the bureaucrats have you in their sights, they’ll never relent unless forced, and frankly, you just don’t have a lot of power in this kind of battle. They know it, and that’s part of why they’re so arrogant. They hold nearly all the cards.
I know other posters here say the US is just as bad, but I suspect you’re much less likely to catch the attention of Child Protective Services in the US. As bad as the US is in some ways, we aren’t even close to the UK, yet. They’re well on the way to 1984. We’re just getting started.
You’re giving us a bridge.
Well, what you have got to remember is that field social workers tend to be Guardian-reading lefties, who will also equate spanking with child abuse (My mum was a residential social worker, and she more or less told me the same). They can be a pain in the arse to British citizens as well, one couple was compelled to flee to Ireland to escape their clutches because they judged the mother to have learning difficulties that rendered her an unfit mother (Irish social workers disagreed). Handy having a sovereign country nearby that speaks the same language but has full movement, working and residency rights for citizens of both countries, it means the citizen of either country can bugger off to the other when their own government starts acting up. If Scotland becomes independent, hopefully that will give us yet another alternative.
Anyhow, its also worth remembering that every country has its xenophobic a-holes. When we lived in the states, it was a close neighbourhood, but one family refused to have anything to do with us, even to the point where during the annual neighbourhood picnic, they said to the other neighbours that if we came along, they wouldn’t be, at which point the other neighbours said “well, don’t come then” (Think they overestimated just how much their presence was valued, lol). Don’t know why they didn’t like us (we’d never even met or spoken to them), must have been Irish-Americans of the type who still cling to the potato famine or something.
My daughter was born in the US and traveled on her US Passport, but from my understanding she may have dual citizenship?
Your child is qualified for dual nationality. I’ll PM you later with more info.
Thank you, once I get it, I will read it! I thank everyone for the advice and all! It makes me feel better to have other people to talk to about this also!
The only people who are now considered British ‘subjects’ in technical terms are Irish citizens born before 1949(when Ireland became a republic), which has very little significance, other than the fact that an Irishman or Woman born before then has the right to style themselves ‘Sir’ or ‘Dame’ if they receive a UK Knighthood (e.g. Sir Terry Wogan).
Everyone else has been a citizen since 1983 when the British Nationality Act of 1981 came into force. Before then, pretty much anyone who had the Queen as the Head of State was considered a British ‘subject’ as well as a citizen of their respective country.
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