(vanity) Yep, it's another "Help me pick home defense guns" thread

2/19/13 | marty

[martin_fierro]

POSTED THE OTHER NIGHT ON FB WHILE FR WAS DOWN:

Stopped by my local gun shop tonight for the first time, to see what their inventory/prices were like.



Was surprised by the friendly reception I got. Bunch of good ol' types hanging around.



I'm looking for a handgun + shotgun for home defense. The units would be low maintenance, use comparatively inexpensive ammo and be easy for a man or woman to use.



I looked at a Mossberg 500 (20 gauge) & some Taurus Millenium Series .45 ACPss -- these latter looked to be far too large


http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=MP1&toggle=tp



What do FReepers recommend?

[MtnClimber]

The feds are mainly buying up 9mm & 40 cal pistol ammo and .223 rifle ammo. But it is drying up primers, brass production, bullet production and powder production that would go to other calibers. I think the government contracts were just IDIQ option contracts. The standard military or police calibers have historically been much lower cost, but we are living in different times.

[SWAMPSNIPER]

Try touching that pistol grip rig off when your hands are wet and slippery then come back and tell us about the big knot on your forehead.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

Anything you fire and miss can penetrate your house.

I don’t know about you but I am probably likely to be in my bedroom if a villain intrudes in the dead of night. He is likely to come up the hallway. At the end of the hallway behind him is my garage with the big pick up truck and the hot water heater and the garage shelves full of junk. On the odd chance that a bullet or two passed all of this stuff after missing said perp, it would penetrate the flimsy metal garage door.

Then what?

It is dead of night? Nobody should be on the street.

Now what? Hits a car parked on the street? Hits the neighbor’s refrigerator and book shelf?

I think over-penetration is over rated.

A lot of in-home stops are psychological from brandishing. If you have to shoot, any bullets or pellets you hit the perp with are going to lose a lot of steam. It is the misses you have to worry about, but most of our homes are filled with TVs and kitchen appliances and bookshelves and furniture. Anything that exists the exterior siding after passing through some of this stuff is going to lose a lot of momentum and isn’t likely to be too lethal.

Now if you miss a perp who just kicked in your front door, those any missed rounds are problem.

I just think over penetration is too oft worried about as a self-defense topic.

The takeaway is not to use that WWII Garand in .30-06. But any hand gun up to .44 Mag is going to lose a lot of steam after bouncing through all the stuff it is likely to see in your house. It could go right down a row of studs if you are shooting a shallow angle to a wall.

If I had to shoot in self defense, I am more concerned with having enough penetration to insure stopping the threat, than I am about over penetration of the rounds that go through the perp.

JMHO.

[philman_36]

Me likee mine with extended magazine tube, shoot long time :)
{;^)

A good option from The Cajun, martin_fierro.

Extra rounds at the ready is a good thing...especially for those not yet proficient at reloading.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

Renting and borrowing is the ONLY way to go. There is just no other way of insuring fit and function. The surest way to end up with a gun collection is to buy something you never shot, find it comes up short, rinse and repeat.

I don’t think there are any bad choices today. I would just say go with a full size gun for home defense. The bigger the better - longer site radius, more capacity, less recoil for whatever round you are shooting. There is no reason to get a CCW mouse gun for home defense.

There are no bad shotguns, just name your price.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

I just wrote a long post about how I wouldn’t worry about over penetration. OK. You use a .270 for home defense? Now it is time to worry about over penetration. Any misses now have a substantial risk of danger. You hope it splatters on something, but those long bullets with their relatively high ballistic coefficient launched at 3,000 feet per second.

Yes, over pentration. I would never use a high powered rifle for home defense in a suburb. Out in the stick with a mile between neighbors, sure. In the suburbs? Absolutely no way. I think any high powered rifle cartridge is a bad choice to use in the suburbs. Not even the .223.

[philman_36]

Try touching that pistol grip rig off when your hands are wet and slippery then come back and tell us about the big knot on your forehead.

How often are your hands wet and slippery in the middle of the night?

I won't "go there" with a joke about "lotion on your bedside nightstand"...

{;^)

[SWAMPSNIPER]

If you're in the back yard on the edge of a swamp in a pouring rainstorm, trust me, your hands will be wet!

All I was trying to do was remove a tree limb that was brushing my shortwave longline antenna. I got the limb, and my forehead.

It was probably better than climbing a wet ladder with a wet chainsaw in the dark, but not by much!

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Mossberg-Maverick 88 12 Gauge Shotgun with an 18.5” Barrel.

The Maverick is made by Mossberg but assembled in Mexico - it is virtually the same as the Mossberg 500 but costs about $100.00 less and I’ve seen them for around $200.00 - if you can find them these days.

If you can deal with a pistol grip, the overall length is less than 30”

If a 12 Gauge is too much for you, get the 20 Gauge with the same 18.5” barrel and pistol grip if you want a compact shotgun.

With the standard stock, the overall length is 39.5”

[philman_36]

Depending on your bed frame you can even build a simple rack.
Even a simple piece of sheet metal works! (visit your local sheet metal shop for scraps and bending)
A couple of bends to fit over the bedside rail and to hold the shotgun (a small lip to prevent it falling off) and "Wallah!"...instant bedside rack!

[Vendome]

Hey Martin. Do not get a 20 gauge. If that’s what you want fine but for my money I’d rather have a 12 gauge.

It’s like shooting a .50 cal(almost).

Mossberg 12 gauge can be had at your Big5 for $275, comes with an 18.5 inch barrel and a 24”.

Great all around arm for hunting or protection.

Load the thing with slugs and it will tear off an arm or make a mighty big hole.

because of the size of the round it won’t travel far as well.

I don’t recommend 3”. Hurts like hell and you won’t fire more than a couple before giving up.

AS for the handgun, get a .45. You can shoot Jacketed Hollow Points that are 230 grain.

They too make bigger holes, particularly if you double or triple tap.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

Shotguns. Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. Why let the cops impound your nice Beretta or Benelli after a home defense shoot? FWIW, guns that look like they are used for duck hunting probably go over better in court than evil black guns with pistol grips. Just food for thought.

If you are made of money, a Benelli supervinci auto would be nice

Anything pump or auto. You don't want to get an over-under or side by side with only 2 shells in it.

Handguns, really way too numerous to list.

Some kind of .357 magnum revolver like this S&W K-frame. You can always use .38 special or +P.

Or Colt Python

Or any full size hand gun in 9mm, .45 ACP or .40 S&W. There is just so many of them. Here are some classics.

Beretta 92fs, or if you have no money, Taurus makes a clone of this.

Walther P99

Kimber 1911

Sig P220 or P226

Browning Hi Power

H&K P7M8 or M13

Glock 17 or 21

H&K USP

The choices for great hardware are mind boggling. Try to rent or borrow and just see what you like.

[Vendome]

Oops.

Taurus is fine, Ruger is fine.

Smith & Wesson or Kimber are expensive and geared more toward competition and for those looking for dependability in any condition.

I have a Colt, a SW and a couple Kimbers. All .45 and all have at least ten magazines for each.

[philman_36]

If you're in the back yard on the edge of a swamp in a pouring rainstorm, trust me, your hands will be wet!

No sh|t, Sherlock!

If you are stupid enough to go outside in the pouring rain in the middle of the night at least I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you would be smart enough to use a different weapon.

Perhaps you would even be like the vast majority of people and simply look out your windows first before venturing out.

[Vendome]

It won’t over penetrate. Specially if you shoot shot.

If you were shooting a .308 or 556 yeah, it’ll go through school houses.

Get a 12 gauge and be done with it.

I live in the same area as you and I’m not the slightest concerned about over penetration.

Mostly because I’m sure the rounds will be accurately placed.

[Yosemitest]

The takedown .270 is a great, all-around weapon that meets several needs.
Number one, it's usually left together and ready to use (loaded, because an unloaded weapon will only get you killed).
Number two, know what you're shooting at.
The military (I'm retired) trains with the .308 in urban settings all the time.
Number three, it's not for amateurs.

[Vendome]

If you want, ping me in Freepmail and I’ll take you to Los Altos Gun and Rod range.

I’ll bring my brother, his son and another Freeper.

You can shoot our guns and get a feel for what you might want.

You’ll know by the end of the day.

We gotz lotz of ammo and only ask a small donation.

You’ll love Los Altos. It’s off Skyline and Highway 9 above Los Gatos.

Bestest place to shoot.

We are going next week or the following if you want to go.

[philman_36]

All I was trying to do was remove a tree limb that was brushing my shortwave longline antenna. I got the limb, and my forehead.

That's what you get for using the wrong tool for the job at hand!

You should have just waited till daylight and the rain stopped.

I'm beginning to wonder about your intelligence and I've never thought that way about you before today and this series of comments by you.

[Vendome]

I agree with Johnny.

Shot isn’t a problemo but, slugs will over penetrate. However, not the same penetration as a jacketed round, which is harder than a lead bullet.

[nodumbblonde]

” Did you look at the Taurus Judge for a handgun? Did you pick it up and hold it? I’m just saying . .”

Ditto! That was going to be my suggestion. :-)

Have one and love it. No, I mean I LOVE it. And if it gets attention all the way down the other side of the gun range, I’m guessing it’d make a bad guy wet himself.