Skip to comments.'Questions Are Being Asked': Chuck Todd Takes On Sen. Ted Cruz's Potential 'Birther Controversy'
Posted on 05/06/2013 9:44:33 AM PDT by Cold Case Posse Supporter
Another birther controversy could be brewing for 2016, MSNBC host Chuck Todd informed on Monday. Though this time aimed at a Republican: Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), who was born in Canada. While Cruz likely doesnt face any real eligibility problems, Todd acknowledged, questions are being asked.
How exactly is natural-born citizen defined? Since Cruzs mother was born in the U.S. and his father became a citizen in 2005, Todd explained, going on to list similar scrutiny faced by President Obama, George Romney, and John McCain.
The legal evidence seems to side with Cruz, Todd argued, but there is a grey area, and that may be all his opponents need.
Its pretty clear that he qualifies as natural born, Peter Spiro, a professor at Temple University, stated in response to Todds earlier question about how the term is defined. To clarify, Todd summed up: If you are born to U.S. citizens abroad, no matter where, if they are U.S. citizens, if
one of your parents is a U.S. citizen then that should qualify as natural born.
(Excerpt) Read more at mediaite.com ...
“Why would Cruz have a American birth certificate if he was born in Canada?”
Children born overseas to an American citizen (mother, father or both) are issued a certificate of birth by the country where they are born. That certificate is then taken with the parent’s (or parents’) passport(s) to the US Consulate or Embassy where they are issued a US Certificate of Report of Birth and a US passport.
Cruz has an American birth certificate, not a Canadian one, but if he did, he could drop the Canadian one and then have allegiance only to America. You can only have allegiance to America to run for president. He doesn't have a Canadian or Cuban birth certificate so he can't claim allegiance to either of those countries.
I go back to my grandson. He has dual citizenship, English and American. He cannot have allegiance to America due to being an English citizen. Neither can he claim allegiance to England since he is also an American citizen. To claim allegiance to either country, he would have to give up the other citizenship.
“Natural born meant two parents who were both born in America were your natural father and natural mother”
That is exactly what Constitutional scholar and lawyer Herb Titus was implying in the video in simple terms for anyone to understand.
He was a new piece of flesh in Canada. He was not a citizen of any country until his mother filled out a birth record recording him as American and filed it with the government.
My birth certificate is an amended birth certificate. One of my parents gave my name to the person at the hospital who filled out the form according to what my parent said. The parent said I was an American and that was put down. However, when the person wrote my name (Marcella), he/she misspelled it. That wasn't noticed until later when they got the birth certificate in the mail. They had to contact the state to make the correction and a new, amended one, was mailed to them. Therefore, my birth certificate says, “Amended” at the top. So, legitimate mistakes can be corrected to an existing birth certificate. This is to show until parents complete and file documents, a baby does not exist in government records and those can be amended.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but your quote (non-binding, to be sure) uses one statement to say what a NBC is. Without context, I can’t tell if it is meant to be read inclusively or exclusively.
Sen. Cruz is clearly ineligible for Canadian citizenship, yet he was clearly born outside the United States.
I voted for Senator Cruz and I love the guy. That doesn’t mean he’s eligible. That sucks, but imagine what would happen if we had a US citizen raised outsid the United States and elected as president, even though he is basically a foreigner. Think about what horrific things he could . . . . Oh wait . . .
I smell a RAT, no pun intended.
but there is a grey area, and that may be all his opponents need.
Ya mean like Barry Soetoro, Barack Obama, Steve Dunham or whatever his name is with a Connecticut SS#, a Kenyan father, a mother too young to confer citizenship and no hospital that will claim it birthed him? You mean like that? :-)
“He doesn’t have a Canadian or Cuban birth certificate so he can’t claim allegiance to either of those countries.”
Do you have a link to your source?
From http://www.capitalnews.ca/index.php/news/citizenship comes this:
“As [British Columbia immigration lawyer Steven] Meurrens points out, Citizenship and Immigration Canadas regulations state that entering Canada for the purpose of giving birth is not a barrier to entry and Canadians should take pride in the fact the country allows birthright citizenship.”
If his father went to the Cuban Embassy in Ottawa,Canada, Cruz could very well have a Cuban BC, in addition to his Canadian birth certificate.
Question is, has Cruz renounced his citizenship to Cuba and Canada? If so, where is the proof?
He does NOT have Canadian citizenship and he never did.
He was probably ELIGIBLE for Canadian citizenship as an infant (although there is an exlcusion that might apply). As soon as Mrs. Cruz wrote down that he was an American and go the passport, he was no longer eligible for Canadian citizenship. He also spent more than 10 years outside Canada without claiming citizenship. (See Canadian Citizenship Act of 1946)
In addition, neither he nor his father had ANY right to a Cuban claim. Legally, his mother was an American Citizen. His father was not a citizen of anywhere and owed allegiance to no one.
Exactly. Thanks for your post.
So you're, what, a conservative anti-Cruz activist...?
But he isn't and neither is Cruz or Rubio. The Constitution either means something or it doesnt, ignoring it to suit our needs is what the Democrats do. Should we just become democrat lite?
Yes...if Obama is eligible...then Cruz is eligible.
Legal precedent has been set by Obama
Which is why we still need that Obama Hawaii Birth Cert released. Obama not being eligible...but not removed....will be precedent for Cruz to be President
I just hope the PhonyCon RINO Obama Supporter Anti Birthers do not go after Cruz
Tell that to the Supreme Court.
If he has to renounce his citizenship to any other country, would that not be sufficient proof that he was not NBC?
“A birth record filled out by a parent at the time of birth designates the citizenship of the child. If a Vietnam ‘hooker’ fill out the birth record and claimed American citizenship for the child based on the American soldier father, the baby would be an American. The mother could also claim the baby as Vietnamese and the baby would have dual citizenship.”
In the fall of 2009, right when Orly had a case before Judge Carter having submitted an affidavit with the CPGH Kenyan BC attached threatening to result in discovery that could prove the HI vital records to be inconclusive...
...the 9th Circus inserted dicta into a case, Marguet-Pillado, that suddenly declared a foreign-born child born of the unmarried lover of an American to be a potential “natural born citizen” at birth if a mere “biological connection” to an American could be established (if wasn’t in this case).
This issue wasn’t even before the court but suddenly in dicta the court offhandedly declared that in effect, even if Barry’s mom was unmarried and underaged and delivered him in Kenya and was a UK subject at birth, Barry was NBC because he had a “biological relationship” to a US citizen, his mom.
See my FR thread:
“Obama cites US v Marguet-Pillado. Dicta implies Obama eligible even if born in Kenya (vanity)”
In support of the opinion in US v Marguet-Pillado, 9th Cir. 2011, Judge Gwin, writing for the majority in his III Analysis dicta, states: No one disputes that Marguet-Pillados requested instruction was an accurate statement of the law, in that it correctly stated the two circumstances in which an individual born in 1968 is a natural-born United States citizen: (1) that the person was born in the United States or (2) born outside the United States to a biologically-related United States citizen parent who met certain residency requirements.
See Seizethecarp's post #67.
Null and void,
Thanks for the ping!
And because it was considered a threat, Minor vs. Happersett was scrubbed when it was needed.
Then ignored; people blew it off and called what the judge said there was “dicta”.
They just pick and choose...... arrrgh!
The 9th Circus DID include compliance with the statutory residency requirement for Stanley Ann a Kenya birth. Note that the statutory requirement for married v. unmarried moms. If Stanley Ann was married under US law she would NOT meet residency. If she was legally unmarried (say due to bigamy rendering her US marriage a nullity), she WOULD meet the residency for her child to be a statutory citizen at birth.
This is just DICTA, but it appears to only NBC definition by a federal appeals court so far that would relate to Barry’s fact pattern at birth (how convenient, coming in the middle of Orly’s case before Judge Carter including a Kenyan BC in an affidavit).
“He was born before both of his parents naturalized as U.S. citizens. He is not a Constitutional Article 2 Section 1 natural born Citizen. He is a statutory citizen.”
The US Supreme Court has disagreed with you, back in 1898.
The Constitution should mean what it says all the time not just when it is convenient, or it won't matter because we have became the enemy we are pledged to defeat.
Idiots on the bench can have any opinion we let them get away with.
That is exactly right. If you are an American citizen, that citizenship is in your body - you don't renounce it if you go to another country and if you have a child there, it “inherits” your citizenship and you fill out a form stating such. You are the American (with American reproductive parts) if you are in America or in Pogostan or Magicland or the land of the Wizard of Oz.
“If you are an American citizen, that citizenship is in your body - you don’t renounce it if you go to another country and if you have a child there, it inherits your citizenship and you fill out a form stating such.”
Note that the 9th Circus requires compliance with “residency requirements” for a foreign birth. Only a trial on the merits with full discovery of the birth location, marriage legitimacy of the parents could determine whether the 9th Circus standard #2 is met. The SCOTUS would have to uphold it to extend this definition beyond the 9th Circus (the most overturned Circuit, BTW...thus 9th Circus, IMO).
I’m really getting tired of seeing people on FR saying Rubio, Cruz and/or Jindal are eligible to be pres. In that case, millions of Mexican and other anchor babies are eligible as well.
I don’t care if Cruz is the second coming of George Washington, he’s not eligible. Truth is truth and facts are facts.
My grandson was born in a foreign country (England). On the date of his birth, his American father registered him as an American and got an American passport for him. He was an American when he was born due to his father being American. The father's American Passport showed he was an American. There was no discovery or trial.
As far as the 9th Circuit Court (I think that's court of appeals) - that freaky lib excuse for a judge guy can go pound sand.
“The Constitution should mean what it says all the time not just when it is convenient, or it won’t matter because we have became the enemy we are pledged to defeat.”
The problem is that facts and circumstances change such that fact pattern not possible or not contemplated by the founders, amendments or subsequent case law.
1. at the time of Minor v Happersett, wives ONLY had the unitary citizenship of their husband in the US.
2. being a bastard child was had legal consequences for citizenship
3. there was no provision as of MvH regarding how adoption would affect NBC status, especially in infancy.
4. there was no provision as of MvH for in vitro fertilization and NBC status.
5. the intent of the founders, arguably following Vattel, would make McCain NBC as the child of a serving US military man
6. as of MvH the end of automatic citizenship change on marriage hadn’t happened creating instant dual citizen children if the statutes were applied to the sexes in a non-discriminatory manner. Would SCOTUS today regard the context of the MvH where ONLY the male parent passes citizenship to be nullified by women’s current retention of her own citizenship on marriage?
7. now the 9th Circus doesn’t even require marriage but only a biological relationship to a US citizen (sperm donor), apparently no infusion of US culture via personal fatherhood
None of these issues have been considered and resolved by SCOTUS, the only final arbiter. And the facts and circumstances of Barry’s birth are not known.
I cannot personally declare Barry to be or not to be NBC at this time, given the lack of a SCOTUS ruling on all of the above unknown that apply to Barry.
“As far as the 9th Circuit Court (I think that’s court of appeals) - that freaky lib excuse for a judge guy can go pound sand.”
IIRC, it was a three judge panel...
Quite wrong. It was and probably still is* sufficient if the parents were naturalized citizens at the time of the child's birth.
*Look, these questions have the country tied in knots. It is absolutely mandatory that the SCOTUS accept one of the many appeals before it to consider the case of Presidential eligibility for us. It is their responsibility, not ours.
“IIRC, it was a three judge panel...”
That’s right. If it was a Court of Appeals, has to be a panel, not just one judge.
How did you arrive at that conclusion?
Let them open that can of worms. Let them.......
He has been.
If Cruz, who was born in Canada and lived there until he was four years of age, and had a foreign national father, is a natural born citizen, then 0bastard is one too.
It’s not “opinion”. It’s clear what a NBC unless a person wants to think it means something else due to personal reasons.
YOu and no one else know who 0bastard’s actual birth mother or father are. Well, some know, but they aren’t telling. NOr is his DOB, place of birth or nationality known. All he’s shown are fogeries and a mythical life made up by his handlers and presented in the fake autobiography written by Ayers.
The BNA supposedly show that 0bmaa Sr had a son. No evidence it’s the guy in the WH.
You didn’t read the reserach threads much, did you.
To parents who were legal citizens of India.
Natural born citizen means a child whose parents were citizens at the time of his birth, and was born on US soil.
The natural born citixen’s parents need to be citizens, but they don’t need to be natural born citizens, they could be naturalized - but before the child is born.
Cold Case Posse Supporter is a good guy, he knows what NBC means. Read some of his comments.
Most Americans learn in grade school civics a President has to be born on U.S. soil for unique natural born citizen status. Another laughable article with another professor disclaiming this like a fool. All these media hacks and “professionals” do is confuse and muddy a simple issue.
Cruz isn’t eligible and if he wants to play games like ignorance or nit pick the Constitution he’s a domestic enemy. John McCain is another fraud never born in this country but in Panama, helped put on ballot by Zero, Hillary, and the entire Congress with the toilet paper script they ran with called Resolution 511. It’s all about power. Roger Calero ran on 2008 Pres ballot yet born in Nicaragua. And Zero the liberal fascist muzzie allegianced puppet ran his mouth til 2007 that he was born in Kenya, has yet to submit any birth documentation that hasn’t been deemed an obvious forgery and scrubbed his past. If Stanley Ann Dunham is actually Zero’s mother and he was actually born in 1961 abroad his mother was not old enough to confer citizenship.
Section 301 (a)(7) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 was the relevant citizenship law at the time of Zeros birth. Requirement was that the parent had to have been physically present in U.S. at least 19 years old to confer citizenship. She was born Nov 29, 1942 and was 18. Therefore Zero is an illegal alien, which I personally believe true based on everything scrubbed.
Concerning the additional requirement of 2 U.S. citizen parents at the time of a one’s birth on American soil for natural born citizen status, SCOTUS will have to take it up, and you can read David’s comments here, a Constitutional lawyer in the beltway on how that would play out.
His father was not a citizen of any country? Come on, show some proof of that. Nowhere man? He was born in Cuba, and only became a US citizen a few years ago. He spent decades not being a citizen of any country?
“The BNA supposedly show that 0bmaa Sr had a son. No evidence its the guy in the WH.”
The year he had that particular son, is the birthyear Hussein uses. I read all the info. on the British records.
I don’t care whose son Hussein is, as far as I am concerned he is a militant Islamic Muslim against the United States.
“YOu and no one else know who 0bastards actual birth mother or father are.”
That is true and I don’t care because, in my opinion, he is a militant Islamic Muslim against the United States.
Thanks, N&V, for the ping. Seize, this is an eye-opening post. Thanks for putting this info out there; Obama’s people knew the truth from the beginning, as is obvious from their various shenanigans.
Carp, what is your theory on the strange case of the Kapiolani-Obama letter? In Jan ‘09 Kapiolani posted a letter from Obama thanking them for being “the place of my birth”. Six mos later it disappeared w’out explanation, never to resurface.
My theory is that Obama’s people already knew they might need to produce a LF BC that noted the specific hospital. Whoever it was in the HI bureaucracy who was willing to ‘modify’ Obama’s ‘birth records’ demanded that a hospital acknowledge Obama’s birth, before it was added to the ‘record’. [Particularly since Obama & crew had claimed Queen’s Hospital as the place more than once.] Kapiolani played ball until the posted letter elicited too many questions, & then removed it.
That’s the way it looks to me, anyway. What are your thoughts?
“Whoever it was in the HI bureaucracy who was willing to modify Obamas birth records demanded that a hospital acknowledge Obamas birth, before it was added to the record.”
My theory is that Kapiolania was elated to fund-raise on Barry’s claimed birth there...until their legal counsel told them they could go to jail if they couldn’t substantiate that claim...and they couldn’t. But they didn’t go public because they are all Obots and they would have already been liable for any donations based on that claim.
Good for you. We’re all conservatives here, aren’t we?
Look, I’m not a legal expert, nor am I going to try and masquerade as one. But I have read a little about Cruz’s citizenship issue.
The founders didn’t define “natural born citizen”, but a particular law, 8 U.S. code 1801 that defines “citizens of the U.S. at birth.” One of the listed categories includes people born outside of the country to one parent who is a U.S. citizen and one who is an alien. The citizen parent must have lived in the U.S. for at least five years, two of them after age 14.
It seems to me Cruz would be eligible to run for president.
Well that makes sense too. But there is also the other angle. Namely, how cd a hospital be added to Obama’s “handwritten” ‘birth records’ w’out the hospital’s consent? The forger wd go down fast & hard if they listed a hospital that responded by denying the claim. So they needed to know in advance & for certain the hospital wd go along. Only by some public display—as of a posted letter—wd the hospital be on record as acknowledging the claim, correct?
Didn't Congress write 8 U.S. code 1801?
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