Posted on 09/28/2015 11:55:25 AM PDT by damonw
If all 41,000 are right, then that would mean that what we *feel* is right, not what God says. Obviously, the “doctrine isn’t important, just preach Christ” folks are wrong. When you preach biblical doctrine you *are* preaching Christ. Doctrine is another word for teaching. What men believe and practice is based on what they are taught. Jesus was the Master Teacher. Two doctrines that are in contradiction, let alone 41,000, can’t be right. What Christ said in the Bible is what’s right, what determines right doctrine, not preachers, conventions, councils, the State, or anything or anyone else. Doctrine is important: Mark 7:7, 2 John 9-11, 1 Tim. 4: 16
The Locusts have no king but they march out in bands...Proverbs.
Inborn instinct. The universal Church is like that...seemingly no one Earthly king or leader...though Catholics would presume otherwise. Yet we “march out” no matter where we are, due to the indwelling Spirit of God. We do have a Heavenly king.
You can bet it was the women leading the splits in that one. I don’t see the men fighting over color...just price and quality!
Just the ones the deny Jesus was the Christ come in the Flesh! That is the central test for ultimate orthodoxy found in 1John4. Quibbles and quarrels will occur but deny that God came as flesh and that group is of Anti-Christ!
I agree with your post wholeheartedly.
But, what’s a WOF ??
Word of Faith.
Think Creflo $Dollar$, TD Jakes, Joel Osteen.
Name it & claim it religion.
“Now the newer church we go to does odd things too, like giving a “shout out” to the new pope.”
Sounds like it’s time to leave that one also.
Ever try a Calvary Chapel Church? Look them up, very Biblical without sugar-coating anything.
Sheep and Goats divided as promised.
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”
He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”
He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.” I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.
- Emo Philips
Oh. Those guys. Yeah.
They are the fulfillment of the prophesy, “They will make merchandise of you.”
Lets agree to disagree. Is it my turn? :)
I’ve done a LOT of research on the ICOC and seen it first hand with a close relative in a major, and expensive, university. Lost her FULL scholarship and medical degree due to the demands from this group several years ago. I attended a Sunday ‘service’ twice, in different cities. Both were recruiting sessions and not even in churches. The agenda was identical. Are your ‘real’ services still on Wednesdays? Is it 17 steps or is it 19 to convince a college student to join? Still getting your recruits from Universities? Still seems to be the only places you have congregations. Oh, still telling recruits not to trust their parents? That’s a good one.
From the looks of your website, nothing has changed. How many “church” buildings in the U.S. does the ICOC own? Lease? Still just the one in California?
You have your way of believing in Christ and interpreting the Bible. I have mine. They just aren’t compatible in the ways we worship.
Sadly, I have given up on “organized” religion. The old time religion I grew up on apparently isn’t entertaining enough these days. I have not set foot in a church in years where I felt at peace or in communication with God.
I don’t want to be a part of pop culture or give a “shout out” to anyone at church or anywhere else... least of all the pope.
Preach it, Brother.
Preach it, Brother.
Same question? What is the point?
I didn’t see an answer.
I'm sorry to hear that your relative had a bad experience with her ministry and that you did not have a great experience either, but that kind of experience can be said of many churches out there.
Not that I need to defend, but your comments were rather pointed.
You mentioned recruitment. Recruitment in the form of evangelism is exactly what Jesus told his disciples to do. Go and make disciples. Jesus recruited all the time. We don't call it recruitment, but evangelism. More churches should seek to increase the faith and the faithful. Why is that a bad thing?
You mentioned “Wednesdays” as a primary meeting. In my opinion and experience, Sundays are for worship and Wednesdays are for study series or family style church talks. Do other churches have midweek services? Yes, and the first century church appears to have met on a daily basis at times. Why is that a bad thing?
You mentioned “17 or 19” steps. Is that what Cult Watch is throwing out? There are study series that can be shared that are Bible based. There are many studies out there for new disciples, campus, single and and marrieds. Jesus said to go and make disciples and TEACH them. We do believe that there are steps like the following, Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess, and Baptism. Not everyone knows the how and the why. Why is teaching the Word to someone a bad thing?
You mentioned meeting places on campus or otherwise. The first century disciples met in people's homes and in public places. Many of our congregations have purchased and maintained long term buildings and places of worship. Others still rent out other churches, schools or convention rooms. Some will base worship on the building rather than from the heart. Why is a deed or title to a building a requisite of worship?
You mentioned that we are “still telling recruits not to trust their parents.” That's just simply not true, but I will point out that Jesus did tell his disciples, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.” Which in my study leads me to believe that your love for God must be so great that any appearance of any other love would seem as hate. Why is loving God more than anything a bad thing?
I agree with you. I have my way of believing in Christ and interpreting the Bible and you have yours. I would argue that many of the congregations out there aren't compatible with God's plan of worship.
From our website, it is clear that our only intention is in the interest of seeking and saving the lost by reaching out through evangelism and mission. Changing lives for Christ is not a bad thing. More churches out there should try it.
Luke 19:10
Acts 2:42
Mat 28:18
Luke 14:26
There is plenty of information out there on the ICOC. It even pops up often in discussions of cults in general. Everyone can read about it for themselves with a simple google search and draw their own conclusions. I just did to refresh my memory. This is a good one to start with. After 20 years, I know you are familiar with this site too.
Read Mark 9:38 as the Lord Himself deals with the issue of His disciples who want to set themselves up as dividers.
Why are you suggesting to me to review sites that are completely and totally biased against the ICOC? You don’t have to convince me that there are people that do not like the ICOC movement. But, I will disagree against these sites and their calls for Cult naming.
The fact is, there are dozens of books and Internet sites that explain that modern day mainline, denominational and non denominational churches are losing souls. Today’s “Church” tastes great but is less filling. People are leaving because they are unsatisfied with hypocrisy and feel good Christianity. Men are leaving because they are uninspired and women are leaving because no one will lead them. Churches today will accept divorce quicker than they will same sex marriages or unwed couples living together. Churches accept and tolerate sin and refuse to call it out. There are exceptions, yet these churches are struggling to grow.
It has been my experience that people have left our church because they might have been challenged on unrepentant sin or they just simply did not want to live the life of a disciple. That’s right...it is OK to call out sin in the church. We are called to be higher and nobler. We are called to repent. We are called to be righteous. We are called to make disciples of all nations.
At least, that is what I’m taught when I go to church. Visit my church on a Sunday and you will hear the Word of God being preached from the Bible. You will hear A Capella and musical instrument assisted songs. You will see people that range from youth ministry to eldest. You will see a mix of White, Black, Asian and Latino. That’s my church, and it’s not a cult.
You have a couple of biased websites. I have a different experience.
If the tide has changed and some of the ICOC congregations have truly gone more main stream like you are implying then that's great. I'm glad to hear it. Getting new members and keeping them should be easier without all that extra stuff that earned the ‘cult’ rating in the past.
If you can bring a non-believer into the church and get them to welcome Jesus into their hearts, I'm all for it. My experience with ICOC was not what you just said. So yeah, I admit I'm biased.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.