Posted on 12/07/2015 6:48:58 AM PST by harpygoddess
It's amazing how lucky we were, seeing in retrospect how many times the Axis powers screwed up. This, then quitting the Battle of Britain early, and engaging Russia--resulting in a unsustainable 2-front war that bled them dry. Sorry about their luck... ;)
The weatherman said: “There's a little Nip in the air tonight” :-)
I always thought that the attack was the best of bad luck. The ships were sunk in shallow water and were back in action six months later. Had they been at the alternative, deeper water anchorage, or alerted and gone to sea, we would not have had those stop-gap ships (Think Prince of Wales and Repulse). Then, as others have mentioned, no carriers around and no oil tanks hit.
Then there was the Japanese diplomatic screw-up by not translating their final message in English in time and were unable to deliver it until AFTER the attack, giving "Sneak Attack" a powerful revenge meme. I have sometimes wondered if the country would have been aroused as much if the original "We're at war" came before the attack. An amazing tactical victory and a fatal strategic blunder.
I also wondered how the war would have turned out if Hitler hadn't committed national suicide by declaring war on us. As I kid, I remember the blind fury at Japan over the attack and thought if he hadn't declared war, we would have said that he was Europe's problem - we have our own in the Pacific. I suspect that Roosevelt, et al, would have figured out a way though.
They were already in the works. The Essex-class fleet had been started, the North Carolina-class fast battleships were completed or being finished and the South Dakotas were under construction.
If our Carriers weren’t out at sea and docked at Pearl during the attack, the war would have gone on a lot longer than it did, and most likely the end result would have been a Japan divided like Germany and Korea.
Germany and Japan had already signed a strategic alliance. Germany was obligated by that to declare war on us once Japan did.
Opinions on whether they could've ignored that obligation are in the realm of theory at this point.
From what I understand, the pact obligated them to join in if they were attacked. At that point, Germany wasn't attacked by the U.S. and could have legally stayed out. The thinking was, according to some, that he declared war on the U.S. in the hopes the Japanese would, in turn, attack Russia and take some of the heat off of his Eastern Front.
Japan was more interested in Borneo's oil fields and other natural wealth to the South and wisely stayed out, allowing Russia to send it's Siberian, etc. troops to Stalingrad.
Sir...go to your room. No dinner for you tonight.
Actually, they were not. The German’s were not obligated to declare war on whomever Japan attacked. Most of the German high command was shocked that Hitler declared war.
The treaty they had was a mutual assistance agreement.
I don’t know how “cool” it is but it does make you think.
I’m quite a bit younger. It was the movie Tora! Tora! Tora! in ‘71 that made me realize what happened there.
A view that not many people have seen and a different perspective.
My apologies. I understand what you are saying now. I didn’t mean any disrespect.
I was on Ford Island last month - almost forgotten is the Utah, she’s on the other side of Ford Island, partially above the water - 60+ still on board. They finally built a walkway to the edge of the water where you can stand and pay respect. No tours that I know of though.
Wow. Yes, the tour mentioned the Utah.
The Navy is very protective of the whole area (as they should be). It was nice to show my son. He represents the newest generation of kids and he like me only read about it in text books.
Sadly, there are fewer and fewer servicemen and women who served in WWII who are still alive. :(
The third attack was cancelled because ADM Nagumo, was concerned about reports of American submarines possibly in the area of his carriers.
Actually the treaty required German to declare war only if Japan was attacked. Hitler chose to involve German with a war with the Americans. He did not have declare war because Japan was not attacked.
The Japanese at one time did have big designs on Soviet Eastern Siberia. This was the “Northern strategy” supported by the Imperial Army. The “Southern Strategy” favored by the Imperial Navy called for seizure of the Dutch East Indies, Malaysia etc. The Japanese defeat at the hands of the Soviets at Khalkhan Gol in 1939 lead to the abandonment of the Northern strategy. The Japanese signed an Armistice with the Soviets in Sept 1939 ending the border hostilities. The Japanese very strictly adhered to terms of that armistice up until Aug 1945 when the Soviet Far Eastern Offensive started.
Interesting. Thanks.
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