Posted on 01/16/2016 1:14:01 PM PST by American Faith Today
I say no, because while all are negatively affected by the sin of Adam and Eve (yet also benefit from the obedience of others) eternal judgment is based upon what that person did, "and they were judged every man according to their works ." (Revelation 20:13) "But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things . (Romans 2:2)
And which is in accordance with what they did relative to the light and grace given them. (Mt. 11:2-24; Lk. 16:48) By even rejecting the light God gave them, even a pagan has in essence rejected Christ, "which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.' (John 1:9)
But to be culpable for sin requires moral cognizance, "For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good,..."(Isaiah 7:16) while to dam souls due to the sins of their father (as Adam) is reproved by God many times, not just once. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ezekiel 18:20; cf. Dt. 24:16; 2Ki 14:5,6; 2Ch 25:4; Jer 31:29,30)
The sins of one do not make others personally guilty, nor does his holiness make another holy, except by the sinless scapegoat Christ. But all physically die due to Adam, even when sin is not imputed due to their being no law (or in ignorance of it), "sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses..." (Rm. 13,14) (Those who sinned such as during the time of Noah were likely indicted for their sins by the postmortem preaching of Christ: 1Pt. 3:18) And all sin because of the inherited Adamic sinful nature, (Rm. 5:12) as "by one man's disobedience many were made sinners" (Rm. 5:19) by nature and then by choice, but just as the atonement of Christ ("by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous") is not effectual until one believes (though they still physically die), so one is not culpable for sin until they are morally cognizant and able to choose (though they still physically die). Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (Romans 5:18) The disobedience of Adam brought the judgment of an Adamic nature and thus condemnation due to choosing to sin as Adam did, the earned "wages" being the second death, (Rm. 6:23; Rv. 20:14) while the obedience of the second Adam provided justification by faith being counted for righteousness in the washing of regeneration, and thus effecting obedience, but only to those who believe.
No, that's not correct. Please note the following verse:
Gen 8:21 And when the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, the LORD said in his heart, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done.
So, yes, we are all going to Hell unless God stops us and intervenes in our life to give us a new nature.
It would help if you reviewed the scriptures instead of making up your own theology. We have too high of an opinion about ourselves these days.
I agree that the child born long before Jesus will never see Hell. I reject the doctrine that we are born “depraved” because of Adam’s sin. God’s punishment on mankind for Adam’s sin was death-we all die(Though there have been exceptions)
Jesus said “suffer the little children to come unto me for such is the kingdom of heaven.” There was no time limit placed upon that statement.
I basically agree with you. With regard to infants Jesus once said; “suffer the little children to come unto me for such is the kingdom of heaven.” I note no limits of time and place were placed upon Our Lord’s statement with regard to children. I further believe that the virtuous adult pagan shall have God’s regard and mercy. Christ placed upon Christians a burden, albeit a light one.
I can’t understand your post. I admit I am sometimes dense, forgive me.
That is my reading of the Scriptures as well. He is the Potter and we are the clay, so we don’t get to question what He does with us, or why He does it.
The Lord gave us reason and by such a gift he meant us to use it.
Yes! And the amazing thing about reason is that it has been used to prove that we can’t know everything, and that there has to be a Creator of the Universe!
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/goedel-incompleteness/
It is pointing out that folks without access to the ‘rules’ are not judged by them.
John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Those who believe on His name, the saved people have the RIGHT to be called the children of God. Clearly it's not a title that just anyone can claim, nor is it a standing we all have regardless.
We are not His children unless we call on His name and become His children.
Amen. You are so right. It is ONLY when we repent and call upon His name that we become His children.
I get it and I am of course familiar with those scriptures - but just because there is weeping and sorrow - doesn’t mean that will be the only activity there.
Those who cannot get near the throne will lament not being able to. They will weep.
We know that paradise was a benign holding place. Jesus preached to those who were there. Obviously - they had to make a decision and that decision presumably had some consequence both ways.
But hey - I’m not saying this is accurate or orthodox. Just suppositions.
Bottom line: Repent and get saved. Otherwise you will end up in outer darkness. Or worse.
I am fully aware that the OT and NT are the infallible word of God.
I am fully aware that it should be taken literally when ever possible.
I am fully aware that you need to take the clearest and simplest meaning - and not try to massage it into a message that you might have personal preference for, e.g. the modern church.
But I also know that anyone who thinks their doctrine is 100% accurate and every other denomination is in error - is a fool. I also know that trying to put God in a box - is for fools.
So, it’s ok to ask questions and ponder now and then.
Indeed, "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." (Luke 13:28) But these are lost souls, "workers of iniquity" (v. 27) cast into "outer darkness" (Mt. 22:13) which is not "actually pretty nice" in any of its descriptions, and which must be understood in the totality of NT revelation of the afterlife, in which the only end of the lost is in the lake of fire. (Rv. 20:10-15) Which is actually just the opposite of "pretty nice!"
We know that paradise was a benign holding place.
Wrong, as paradise is not referring to the abode of the lost before the final judgment. Paradise is the most Scriptural revelation of the abode of the elect before the resurrection, being called Abraham's bosom in Lk. 16:22, to which Christ went at His death with the contrite criminal, which He called paradise, (Lk. 23:39-43) to release OT saints to glory, (Ephesians 4:9-10) and which Paul states is the 3rd Heaven. (2 Co. 12:3,4)
"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." (Hebrews 10:4) Thus "the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing." (Hebrews 9:8) But, "Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent." (Matthew 27:50-51) "Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things." (Ephesians 4:9-10) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:19-20) "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.' (Matthew 27:52-53)
As for the lost, they were evidently in separate part of Hades, and certainly were not in anything close to a nice place, as "the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom." (Luke 16:22-23)
And that the Lord never used real names in parables nor science fiction, the latter of which would be the case if annihilationism is true, as that precludes the dead from being conscious following death and carrying on a conversation with the elect.
Well ain’t you the dandy subscription to guilt ridden theosophy.
Hey, beg your way into islam, right?
The Bible never says at any point that human beings were created at the beginning of the world.
Disagree
It takes going back into the original Hebrew, and though I occasionally talk about such subjects on the show,I don’t claim to be a master scholar or linguist at it.
But man reads Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and says, “Okay, God created earth without any life, any purpose, just kind of a shapeless, formless blob until He got to work.”
Yet, again, the original Hebrew STIPULATES that the word “was without form and void” should be rendered BECAME without form and void.
The Hebrew word is the same as in Genesis 2:7 where it says man BECAME a living soul.
Why is it rendered in different tenses in the English? I don’t know, other than translating from one language to another is not a perfect process it seems.
I again believe that in Jeremiah 4, when we read what sounds like an overlay of Genesis 1, we see the destruction of the first earth age. And even science, well some scientists, not all, will point to a sudden catastrophic event that wiped out, in their minds, simply all dinosaur life.
Isaiah 45:18 also has God speaking saying He created the world not in vain (tohu, the same Hebrew word as void in Genesis 1:2) but created it to be inhabited.
Do you believe the world is 6,000 years old or so? Just curious.
I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with that. There is indeed an elect, and they have important work to do. And certainly He does not wish for any of them to perish.
At the same time, those who are elect, or beloved, or saved, have already come to repentance. They will sin again. We all do. When we do, we need to repent again.
But it certainly is His desire that ALL, A-L-L come to repentance and it would be His desire that not one person goes to hell.
After all, the verse that everyone, even the skeptic, probably knows by heart, John 3:16, for God so loved THE WORLD- the world is, by a lot of people’s standards a pretty unlovable place, and a pretty unlovable people even, by our standards. But not by His.
I know where you’re coming from, and I’ll read your link. But I think I know what you mean- man can not overcome God’s true will. I think too though that’s where God’s respect for our free will comes to play. He certainly doesn’t want to send anyone into that lake of fire and blot out their soul. But if THEY want to go there, for whatever the reason, He’ll allow that.
None of that reference alludes to humans born today pre-existing.
That’s just a rabbit trail.
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