Can The 6.5 Creedmoor Replace the .308 Win As A SHTF Cartridge?

Am Shooting Journal ^ | 4/23/2017 | J Blaha

[CodeToad]

Performance isn’t what makes a SHTF round; availability is.

Let us know when the 6.5, 6.8, and every other oddball combination becomes mainstream.

[Eagles6]

Yep. What you said.

[Travis McGee]

At least this is more interesting then the perpetual 9mm vs .45 or 5.56 vs 7.62Nato debate.

[eastexsteve]

I have the advantage of living on my own 160 acres. I can literally walk out my front door and shoot 600 yards if I get the itch. I have a slew of guns, but the one I would have to go to in a long-range SHTF situation would be my Weatherby Vanguard in .308. It has a Leopold 4x12 on it, and it’s one of the older Vanguards that came with the test target taped to the gun. I bought the gun strictly on the test target, because the three-shot group looked like two shots until you looked closer. Yeah, it was a sub .5 MOA rifle out of the box, and it still shoots that way with good, premium ammo or reloads. I have a 1K yard range set up that I can walk to in five minutes, and I can hit a 30-gallon garbage can lid, center mass, fairly consistently in no wind, and using my shooters’ bench and good bags. But now, we are talking about shooting out to 1k yards. As I said, I walk out my front door and drive my tractor looking at long distances, and 1k yards is a REAL LONG WAY. I have a favorite deer stand set up with the farthest shot at about 600 yards. Try making that shot without using a vise or high-quality shooters bags, and instead, using your jacket sleeve balancing the rifle across a 2x4 window sill. Under those conditions, that’s a REAL LONG WAY. Two months ago, I killed a large hog offhand at 150 yards after briskly walking 1/8 mile, and that was a REAL LONG WAY under those conditions.

The point I’m making with all this is that under perfect conditions and the best ammo, 1k yard shots are doable. But, under a SHTF situation, I bet you aren’t going to be afforded those “perfect conditions.” Instead, you are going to be shooting back at people shooting at you, pressed for time to shoot, hiding behind obstacles, precariously trying to steady your rifle, changing position, and maybe using captured sub-standard ammo, or ammo you are not familiar with. In cases like this, I could be using captain Kirk’s best phaser rifle and still miss a 600-1000 yard shot.

Considering real world SHTF scenarios, I don’t see any real advantage in going to the Creedmore. At least, not yet. Remember, that when the lowly 7.62x39 was introduced, it was rated to be battle-effective at 400 meters out of an SKS carbine.

[Travis McGee]

.243.

Everybody from Walmart to Bubba’s Bait and Tackle stocks it.

[Travis McGee]

Yep. It’s dumb to go outside of the Walmart flavors unless it’s strictly a hobby. For SHTF, what’s needed are the universal flavors.

.22LR
.223
.308
9mm
.45
12G
Throw in .243, 30-06 etc.
Most other calibers and you will wind up with a gun but no ammo to feed it.

[Travis McGee]

.260 Rem is another great .308 derived round that never took a huge market share like .243 Win did.

Now .243, you find that everywhere. And plenty of .308 sized AR platforms for it.

[Travis McGee]

Yep.

[yarddog]

Hey 9mm vs. .45 is fun, that is until people lose their temper and some guy comes in telling us we have to call the .45 ACP, .45 Auto.

The best mechanic in my home town of DeFuniak Springs was a Ford guy. He did not even like to work on Chevys. (He was also a Pearl Harbor survivor). When I lived in Western, KS the best one in town was a Chevy guy. He literally would not work on Fords. I had to take my Ford Pickup to the dealer.

[CodeToad]

“At least this is more interesting then the perpetual 9mm vs .45 or 5.56 vs 7.62Nato debate.”

Exactly. I mean, seriously, we all know the 45 wins anyway! Jeez!

[gundog]

I love mine...bolt. I just learned that Olympic Arms went out of business. They made an AR in .243. Happy to see there’s a book in the offing.

[Big Red Badger]

The same guy that says that there is
No such thing as;

45 Long Colt.

[VOR78]

Unless they can both significantly increase the availability and lower the price, its not even a consideration for me. If I can’t buy it locally, I’m not interested, and even less so when I see the price tag per round compared to the competition.

[old curmudgeon]

Not necessarily directed at you, but just because this looks like a good place to say it:

I don't think that we will be shooting at soldiers or cops.

We should think about self protection from robbers, only more often and larger numbers than anything we have ever seen before.

So I am thinking in terms of self protection but on a much larger scale than at present.

So a readily available and tradeable cartridge such as the 7.62x39 or the .223 in a rifle that is a semi with a large magazine and that ALWAYS goes bang.

A good AK-47 or a good AR-15.

Also a good hunting rifle, sized according to what game is available where you live and the distances involved.

Around here, 200 yards is a very long shot and deer is the largest game so any of the easily available cartridges above the .22 will do the job

And a shotgun for squirrel and rabbit.

Actually a good 12 Ga. with shells from #8 to 00 buck would handle the total hunting possibilities in most of the eastern US.

[yarddog]

Yep, that is the one.

[editor-surveyor]

.
>> “Unless they can both significantly increase the availability and lower the price, its not even a consideration for me.” <<

Bravo!

Enough of the hype.

Use an economical weapon, and you will do much more in the long run.
.

[yarddog]

I have long felt the .22WMR (.22 Mag.) is a very under rated cartridge.

I have always been impressed with the .22LR and WMR is more than twice as powerful. 360 ft. lbs. of energy in such a tiny bullet is deadly.

You can carry almost as many of them as .22LR and loose ones don’t attract dirt and lint like the outside lubricated long rifle does.

I saw an ad maybe 5 years ago for a Marlin .22 mag. It was in the local rural electric paper. I called the guy and he brought it by. I immediately gave him $100 of my hard earned dollars.

It came with a cheap Tasco scope. I intended to replace it with one of my medium quality ones but after shooting it and being surprised by how accurate it was, I just left it alone. The guy also had it sighted in perfectly. A very useful rifle tho it is pretty long.

Now if I could find a cheap Ruger Single Six 7,1/2 inch barrel with two cylinders.

[IndispensableDestiny]

I have long felt the .22WMR (.22 Mag.) is a very under rated cartridge.

It's also hard ammo to come by. My Browning T-bolt likes the Remington PSP rounds. I haven't seen them in years. It also likes the Federal 52 grain cartridge. Same thing. I have a just over a thousand rounds (only several hundred of the good stuff) at home, but don't shoot it too often these days.

The .17 HMR craze from about a decade ago drove down .22 WMR manufacture. It never came back.

I've also pulled apart .22 Mag and made my own loads. You have to know what you are doing (I do). I used 40 grain .22 Hornet bullets and Lil'Gun powder. Man, I wish I could get some primed brass!

As for the OP, if the SHTF, there is nothing a 6.5 can do that a .308 cannot. Not in those circumstances.

[eastexsteve]

Not necessarily directed at you, but just because this looks like a good place to say it: I don't think that we will be shooting at soldiers or cops.

I certainly hope not. They have taxpayer dollars to fund their arsenal. But remember, that's what the Branch Davidians thought.

We should think about self protection from robbers, only more often and larger numbers than anything we have ever seen before.

Out here in rural NE Texas, there isn't much crime. But, when they turn off the main highway and take that 1/8 mile drive up your road to your house, they are serious about their intentions. And, down on the border, it's downright dangerous on some of those ranches.

It's always been my thought that if the SHTF really did happen and they wanted you, they aren't going to be stupid enough to drive right up to your house and present themselves as an easy target. They are going to hide in the bushes and try to take you from a distance.

[Jack Black]

That being the case, I'm presently working on a project that involves 130 grain-135 grain .308 projectiles from a 16" barrel in attempt to address the velocity deficit that result from the heavier 168-175 grain projectiles.

But the problem with that is that the 'velocity deficit' is a problem mostly at longer ranges, and light-for-caliber bullets like a 130 grain .308 will have relative poor ballistic co-efficient, so that by the time you get to further out it will be traveling slower (as a percent) than the 175 gr. would be, and will also (probably) have less energy than the heavier bullet does at that same distance.

In summary, the reason people like the 6.5mm bullet (in many different cartridges) is the high BC bullets, that are relatively heavy for caliber. The 140 gr. run about .61 BC. The 155 gr - 175gr.308's run about .51 - still pretty good, and the favorite of long range shooters. But the 135 gr drops all the way down to .390. Here is the Sierra information for their best 135 grain pill.

Good article on long range bullets in top calibers

Here's what a really great long range bullet looks like: the Sierra 197gr HPBT, a 7mm bullet:

BC of .780.

Here's what the 135 gr. .308 you are thinking of using looks like:
BC of .390

Notes:
pics only approximately to scale.
both bullets are Sierra Match King, their best LR pills.