Can The 6.5 Creedmoor Replace the .308 Win As A SHTF Cartridge?

Am Shooting Journal ^ | 4/23/2017 | J Blaha

[yarddog]

I bought a 10 inch .22 mag barrel for my TC Contender over 30 years ago. It was a bad barrel, shot awful and I traded it off at a gun show.

Maybe a year later I traded for another used barrel and discovered when I got home, it was the same barrel. It still shot awful.

[RC one]

If I anticipated 500 yard engagements, I wouldn't be carrying a carbine with a 16" barrel. I would be carrying my FN FAL or AR10T and would be using the 168 grain AMAX.

Those are combat distances but we aren't talking about a combat rifle, we are talking about a "SHTF rifle" which, in my mind, suggests that we are talking about CQB distances out to 300 yards max. Beyond that, I'm going to E&E.

At these ranges, the BC is not of primary importance IMO. What is most important is lethality.

It is often argued whether the 5.56mm varmint type rounds make effective self defense rounds. Without jumping into that argument, I think it's pretty obvious that a 125-135 grain .308 varminter type bullet would be a highly effective SHTF round. It has double the weight of the typical 5.56mm projectiles and considerably more muzzle energy. Out to 300 yards, penetration will not be an issue and the terminal effects on soft tissue would be devastating.

But, to put a finer point on it, the point of this exercise is to develop a round that increases the probability of severing arteries on non-center of mass hits by maximizing fragmentation effects well beyond what would be expected from a typical 5.56mm varminter bullet without giving up a lot in penetration. Basically, I'm looking to create a 5.56mm varminter on steroids.

And my problem with the SMKs is they don't have reliable terminal effects unlike a varminter or an AMAX. They're target bullets first and foremost. I'm not worried about targets, I'm worried about saving my ass when the SHTF.

and I recognize that no one rifle is perfect and what works for me might not be the ideal solution for others.

[Axenolith]

Having spent going on 6 years now competing in it, I’d also say a must is a good precharged pneumatic (PCP) air gun in .22 or .25 cal with a tank and a hand pump backup.

You can take deer size game with both (both need strict shot placement for larger game) along with all of the smaller critters. A full SCUBA size tank will fill a lot of these for 6 months to a year of heavy use, and the hand pump indefinitely. You can get mountains of ammo for dirt cheap (my last order of Air Arms .177 cal was something like 6000 rounds for under 100 bucks).

My PCP rifle has had 50,000+ rounds through it and (knock on aircraft aluminum) has yet to have a problem. It’s a very simple design without a regulator that operates at about 1/2 the operating pressure of most of the other designs but still offering consistent ~900 fps +_5 fps over its 60-70 shot fill range.

At the least, the airgun offers one the cost structure and quietness to afford most people the ability to master skills of body control, shot placement, ballistics and wind doping that translate perfectly to heavier and longer range firearms use.

Shooting Field Target has improved my shooting skills by orders of magnitude. It took me about a season to go from “holy crap, I suck, am I ever going to break 50%???” To placing in the top 5% in state and national matches.

BTW, I don’t include spring powered air guns in SHTF type scenario because springs break and degrade, are easily damaged by “dry firing” and perform poorly at altitudes over ~ 5000 feet.

[98ZJ USMC]

I say the best SHTF rifle you can have is one for which it will be the easiest to get ammo for off a dead National Guard.

Or whomever, but yeah.

[riverrunner]

The 40 S@W has been in the market place for well over 25 years with millions of pistols chambered for it and every major manufacturer having many models for this caliber.

More handguns then were ever chambered for the 41 mag and 44 mag 45 long colt.

Hardly a fad more like a major success story that took the market by a storm.

Not going away any time soon for sure

[riverrunner]

Exactly the 308 is a major military caliber that well be with us for a very long time.

It well take a major shift in all the arm forces around the world that use it to make the 6.5 even come close.

[Big Red Badger]

RUGER single Six...
You choose Wisely!

[riverrunner]

260 rem

[DuncanWaring]

Got spare barrels?

[vetvetdoug]

Got several rifles that use the .308.

[humblegunner]

I know at least one other FReeper liked it a whole lot when he took it for a turn at TCMS.

I read that he was able to blow tennis balls out of a river
with it, first time fired, off hand, with the lens cover on.

Seems like a pretty sound piece to me.

[MileHi]

Exactly. Short bullets don’t have good BCs. The 6.5 140 gr has a good BC, and hammers deer far better than paper ballistics might indicate.

[RC one]

I guess you missed my reply to this post.

[MileHi]

I guess you missed my reply to this post.

I didn't, and your post was well reasoned.

I was specifically responding to this:

Ideally, I would like to see Hornady produce a 135 grain AMAX and/or BTHP for the .308 so you could enjoy increased velocity in a 16" barrel, better ballistic coefficients, and excellent terminal results.

135 gr .308s just don't have good BCs. They work OK in Contender pistol loads though.

[RC one]

The history of the 7.62x51 mm rifle and round is an interesting one. The British wanted something along the lines of 7mm which has a great BC and they developed the .280 British for their FN FAL rifle. The US was adamant that we had to have a .308 cal projectile with ballistics equivalent to the 30/06 though and, ultimately, that's what we got-the 7.62x51mm NATO round.

So, that's what we have now-the 7.62x51mm and .308 Winchester. and, of course, less than 20 years after adopting that we introduced the 5.56mm round and now, 60+ years later, we realize the 5.56mm kind of sucks and the .308 is a little too big so we're all looking for something a little smaller with a better BC-something along the lines of the .280 British.

I like the 7.62x51mm round but I would prefer the 7mm-08. That's what we should have gone with 60+ years ago but we didn't for some reason.

I don't know why we haven't corrected that mistake after all these years but I wish we would.

[MileHi]

Interesting. I may have read about that somewhere along the line.

The 7.62 round can be improved upon, but it remains “good enough”.

I would certainly like to see us replace the 5.56 in the AR platform. I’m still not sure what the answer to that should be.

[archy]

Yep. It’s dumb to go outside of the Walmart flavors unless it’s strictly a hobby. For SHTF, what’s needed are the universal flavors.

.22LR
.223
.308
9mm
.45
12G
Throw in .243, 30-06 etc.
Most other calibers and you will wind up with a gun but no ammo to feed it.

There are a few others:

.38 Special/.357
.40 S&W
.30 M1 carbine
7,62x39mm M43 Soviet
5.45x39mm M74 Soviet
7,62x54r/7,62x53r Russian/Finnish
7,92x57mm Mauser
.303 British

I'm under no illusions that when SHTF there will be the slightest possibility of popping into the nearest mart-mart or gun shop and picking up a box or two of my favorite round. Nevertheless, if enough ammo is stocked for oddball or specialty weapons to keep them going for a while, there'll be an AK/AR/shotgun or .22 purchased for each shot fired, making a 100-round per gun supply a pretty reasonable investment for keeping the neighbors supplied as an early warning system.

That's not a big problem in my corner of Wyoming, but I do have one neighbor who really favors the 7.7 Jap and has four of the things, plus enough ammo for an Imperial Japanese Marine landing party squad...and a pair of .243s. But he's killed a half dozen bears with his 7.7s over the last couple of decades, and more elk than I have fingers and toes. Another local target shooter pal really goes for the 7,5x55 Swiss K-31 straightpull rifles and likely has a thousand rounds or better for his. Those characters I don't need to stock for or advise; they'll make out fine for as long as their ammo holds out, by which time either would have accumulated a pickup load of souvenirs.

Even milady's preference for folding stock 5.45mm AKs when aboard her daily-driver motorbike, pickup or in the office [helicopter driver by trade] is off the beaten path, but she has several of the rifles, plus a 7,62x39 version as a spare, so won't be at a loss if a single rifle goes down; it'll just become a *parts queen* for the others, to be stripped for parts to keep others going.

There are also a couple of cartridges for very specific role weapons, very compact and concealable or suppressable PDWs in particular. The FN 5,7 round for the FN P90 comes to mind, and the .30 carbine can be thought of in this light as well, as can the .22 magnum and ammunition for a few assorted survival and specialty pieces of equipment.

I think there's a place for the *odd ducks* in hard times so long as there's no overwhelming reliance on *just* such, and an appreciation that one day, the ammo for them will run out. And cartridges for sniper use are so specialized as to make another branch of the same tree.

I have the advantage of having the Black Hills Ammunition company within a half-hours drive, and reasonably extensive personal stocks, enough to have broken an axle on an ammo-overloaded pickup truck. I have not yet reached my personal goal of enough rounds to take on a million-moms antifa mob, but I'm still working on it. And while some of them are indeed a bit off the beaten path. most are either on your initial *best choices* list, or are on my *these too* additions.