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Tuscany's Etruscan Claim Knocked
ANSA ^ | 5-16-2006

Posted on 05/16/2006 11:30:01 AM PDT by blam

Tuscany's Etruscan claim knocked

Modern Tuscans not descendants of ancient people, DNA says

(ANSA) - Rome, May 16 - The Tuscans' proud claim to be the descendants of the ancient Etruscans has taken a knock .

A DNA comparison of Etruscan skeletons and a sample of living Tuscans has thrown up only "tenuous genetic similarities", said lead researcher Guido Barbujani of Ferrara University .

"If the Tuscans were the direct descendants of the Etruscans the DNA should be the same," said Barbujani, a genetecist who coordinated the study with Stanford University in the United States .

The study, which appears in the current edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, concludes that most modern Tuscans are descended from a non-Etruscan people .

However, it leaves a ray of hope for the Tuscans, who often boast about the heritage that makes them different from other Italians .

"It could be that the skeletons from which we extracted the DNA belonged to an elite group that did not spread demographically," Barbujani said .

The Etruscans are believed to have formed the first advanced civilisation in Italy, based in an area called Etruria, corresponding mainly to present-day Tuscany and northern Lazio .

At the height of their power at around 500 BC - when Rome itself was subjugated - they spread to the foothills of the Alps and southward close to Naples .

Modern knowledge of their civilisation is based largely on archaeological finds, as much of their language has yet to be deciphered .

For many people the Etruscans have a romantic, mysterious aura and there is a raft of web sites devoted to them .

They are a particular favourite among New Age fans .


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: claim; dna; etruscan; etruscans; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; knocked; tuscanys
I expect future DNA studies are gonna disappoint a lot of people...probably me too.
1 posted on 05/16/2006 11:30:05 AM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 05/16/2006 11:31:25 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Well we're all related to each other as 16th cousins.


3 posted on 05/16/2006 11:33:14 AM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: AdmSmith; AnalogReigns; caryatid; CobaltBlue; concentric circles; Domestic Church; Emmalein; ...
Genetic
Genealogy
Send FReepmail if you want on/off GGP list
Marty = Paternal Haplogroup O(2?)(M175)
Maternal Haplogroup H
GG LINKS:
African Ancestry
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The List of Ping Lists

Friggin' Tuscan raiders.

4 posted on 05/16/2006 11:37:48 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: blam

Boycott The Olive Garden.


5 posted on 05/16/2006 11:38:29 AM PDT by battlegearboat
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To: blam

Bean munching racists.


6 posted on 05/16/2006 11:42:36 AM PDT by rightwinggoth
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To: blam

I visited an Etruscan necropolis near Assisi on our visit a few years back.

Pretty interesting stuff. Supposedly the tombs had been discovered back in 1905, but not considered important enough to develop as a tourist attraction until some 70 years later.

The funeral casks and tunnel decor all sported mostly Greek symbols, like Medusa. Many of the casks had dragons on them. Sorry, no unicorns.


7 posted on 05/16/2006 11:42:44 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: blam

Boy, wait'll the Tuscan Chamber of Commerce hears about this!


8 posted on 05/16/2006 11:44:15 AM PDT by RexBeach ("There is no substitute for victory." -Douglas MacArthur)
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To: Semper Paratus

Not really ~ many families kept it, so to speak, in the family. The French royals, for example, adhered to a standard where no one "bred" within 4 degrees of consaqnguinity, but they didn't "breed" beyond that either. This kept the royal family at 500 or so members for about 500 years.


9 posted on 05/16/2006 1:48:56 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
Thanks Blam. And by the way, WOW, you're on an historic roll (even for you)!

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

10 posted on 05/16/2006 10:45:00 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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reprise, old links, probably expired, emphasis mine:
Fathers can be influential too
by Eleanor Lawrence
Biologists have warned for some years that paternal mitochondria do penetrate the human egg and survive for several hours... Erika Hagelberg from the University of Cambridge, UK, and colleagues... were carrying out a study of mitochondrial DNAs from hundreds of people from Papua-New Guinea and the Melanesian islands in order to study the history of human migration into this region of the western Pacific... People from all three mitochondrial groups live on Nguna. And, in all three groups, Hagelberg's group found the same mutation, a mutation previously seen only in an individual from northern Europe, and nowhere else in Melanesia, or for that matter anywhere else in the world... Adam Eyre-Walker, Noel Smith and John Maynard Smith from the University of Sussex, Brighton, UK confirm this view with a mathematical analysis of the occurrence of the so-called 'homoplasies' that appear in human mitochondrial DNA... reanalysis of a selection of European and African mitochondrial DNA sequences by the Sussex researchers suggests that recombination is a far more likely cause of the homoplasies, as they find no evidence that these sites are particularly variable over all lineages.
Is Eve older than we thought?
by Sanjida O'Connell 15th April 1999
"Two studies prove that the estimation of both when and where humanity first arose could be seriously flawed... The ruler scientists have been using is based on genetic changes in mitochondria, simple bacteria that live inside us and control the energy requirements of our cells. Mitochondria are passed from mother to daughter and their genes mutate at a set rate which can be estimated - so many mutations per 1,000 years... However, these calculations are based upon a major assumption which, according to Prof John Maynard Smith, from Sussex University, is 'simply wrong'. The idea that underpins this dating technique is that mitochondria, like some kinds of bacteria, do not have sex... Two groups of researchers, Prof Maynard Smith and colleagues Adam Eyre-Walker and Noel Smith, also from Sussex, and Dr Erika Hagelberg and colleagues from the University of Otago, New Zealand, have found that mitochondria do indeed have sex - which means that genes from both males and females is mixed and the DNA in their offspring is very different... Prof Maynard Smith and his colleagues stumbled over mitochondria having sex in the process of tracking the spread of bacterial resistance to meningitis... For the 'out-of-Africa' theory to hold water, the first population would have to have been very small. Sexually rampant mitochondria may put paid to this idea. Maynard Smith thinks that the origin of humanity is much older - may be twice as old - which, according to Eyre-Walker, means we are likely to have evolved in many different areas of the world and did not descend from Eve in Africa."

11 posted on 05/16/2006 10:46:08 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam
I expect future DNA studies are gonna disappoint a lot of people...probably me too.

Ditto to that !!

12 posted on 05/17/2006 5:04:57 AM PDT by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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To: muawiyah
"The French royals, for example, adhered to a standard where no one "bred" within 4 degrees of consaqnguinity, but they didn't "breed" beyond that either."

(Ahem) Consanquinity.

13 posted on 05/17/2006 6:41:47 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Thank you Blam.

I've been waiting for someone to start point to the various French royal family "batard", but they haven't.

Actually, a lot of those guys were off in other lines that didn't stand in line for the throne for any number of reasons. Until the formal establishment of the Royal Mistress (with a formerly Protestant King), the main line folks look to have been pretty well supervised by the various ladies in waiting, gentlemen of the guard, and so forth who actually watched everything these people did all their lives.

The King of France, sad to say, was watched in his toilet. I cannot imagine living a live with no privacy at all.

14 posted on 05/17/2006 6:47:20 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: muawiyah

I don't know about all french kings, but at least one went to the toilet surrounded by his 'fanclub'çause he was so proud of owning a toilet that he wanted to show off. At least according to Discovery channel.


15 posted on 05/17/2006 11:39:26 PM PDT by S0122017
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To: SunkenCiv

Paternal mitochondria survive for a few hours? And they exchange DNA with maternal mitochondria?!

It makes sense, but I had no idea! Shame on me.


16 posted on 05/17/2006 11:40:55 PM PDT by S0122017
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To: S0122017
Since the situation (being watched at toilet) had been the case with virtually every king important enough to be known to history (that is, for thousands of years), I hardly think a King of France would have made such special note of it.

On the other hand, he might well have gotten a new one, and that fact, not the toilet, might have been worth noting.

17 posted on 05/18/2006 4:35:37 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: muawiyah
Since the situation (being watched at toilet) had been the case with virtually every king important enough to be known to history (that is, for thousands of years), I hardly think a King of France would have made such special note of it. On the other hand, he might well have gotten a new one, and that fact, not the toilet, might have been worth noting.

I find it difficult to believe.

First of all cultures differ hugely. From mythology it is clearly discernable that Aztecs did not think highly of faeces and I doubt they would have watched the king taking a sh*t. I also don't remember ever hearing something like that about Sumerians kings, Hebrew kings, Japanese emperor etc.

And as far as I remember from one docu on a castle, the english king went potty in a well protected room which doubled as an escape route. An audience would simply not have fitted in that room.

Secondly, the toilet is a modern invention :). Which is why I mentioned that the French king was proud, as he was one of the first Europeans to own one.
18 posted on 05/18/2006 6:55:12 AM PDT by S0122017
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DNA Boosts Herodotus’ Account of Etruscans as Migrants to Italy
NY Times | April 3, 2007 | NICHOLAS WADE
Posted on 04/03/2007 9:27:29 PM PDT by neverdem
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1811652/posts


19 posted on 07/10/2008 8:04:41 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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20 posted on 07/10/2008 8:05:20 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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