Posted on 07/10/2006 11:21:37 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
Yeah. But the difference between the former and the later doesn't make studying the former illegitimate or uninteresting. Besides, we already know that new traits can arise by evolution. E.g. (links swiped from Ichneumon here, see also the next post):
Directed evolution of biosynthetic pathways. Recruitment of cysteine thioethers for constructing the cell wall of Escherichia coliMolecular evolution of an arsenate detoxification pathway by DNA shuffling
The evolutionary origin of complex features
Bacterial evolution and the cost of antibiotic resistance
Mild environmental stress elicits mutations affecting fitness in Chlamydomonas
The emergence and maintenance of diversity: insights from experimental bacterial populations
Pleiotropic effects of beneficial mutations in Escherichia coli
The Rate of Compensatory Mutation in the DNA Bacteriophage X174
Evolution and Information: The Nylon Bug
Spontaneous mutations in diploid Saccharomyces cerevisiae: more beneficial than expected
Examples of Beneficial Mutations and Natural Selection
Spontaneous mutations in diploid Saccharomyces cerevisiae: more beneficial than expected
Evolution and Information: The Nylon Bug
Punctuated evolution caused by selection of rare beneficial mutations.
PLEIOTROPIC EFFECTS OF BENEFICIAL MUTATIONS IN ESCHERICHIA COLI
The Distribution of Fitness Effects Among Beneficial Mutations
Pardon me if I ask a question. If mutations are not responsible for population diversity, and if everything is descended from two of its kind, one male, one female, that rode on Noah's Ark, then where did all the population diversity come from?
Indeed you're right. The pigeon family encompasses many species, all over the world. So much for that argument, eh?
A guy can see photos of lots of different pigeon species at the link below:
http://www.camacdonald.com/birding/Sampler3-PigeonsDoves.htm
"If mutations are not responsible for population diversity, and if everything is descended from two of its kind, one male, one female, that rode on Noah's Ark, then where did all the population diversity come from?"
So the city pigeons we have here in Florida should all look like wild pigeons.
But they do not. There are white pigeons, and calico pigeons, and brown pigeons, and many other types of pigeons. Why have they not returned to the archetype?
And here are a list of pigeon species, an the genera they are part of (there is more than one genus):
http://www.wildlifelands.com/wxs/Taxon4.htm#60
In all over 200 species.
I hear they are really, really backed up. I think a lot of creationists get asked questions like mine and are stumped, so they go to answersingenesis to learn what Biblical Truth is. I thought you were supposed to be able to figure this out from reading the Bible yourself. At least, thats what Protestants tell Catholics. But it seems some of them have to consult Authorities too.
Well, now. 200 species of pigeon, eh? Hmm...that's a lot, for sure.
I guess that person was wrong about pigeons, huh?
Are they not the same species? Can jews not have sex with palestinians and produce offspring?
Are they not the same species? Can jews not have sex with palestinians and produce offspring?
Like I said, evolution is like rust. It is what is happening to the old car out in a field, but it is not what created it, nor is it's condition superior to before it was parked there.
Uh...I'm being a bit facetious, you see. See my tagline.
Jeez, not THIS spam again.
"Like I said, evolution is like rust. It is what is happening to the old car out in a field, but it is not what created it, nor is it's condition superior to before it was parked there.
"
Uh...that argument won't wash, there, RobRoy. Cars are not alive. They don't breed and reproduce other cars.
Just in case you hadn't heard, animals like humans don't do too well as individuals. They tend to rot after their dead. It's amazing, huh?
It's that living part that puts the kaibosh on your little explanation. While animals are alive, they heal from illness, reproduce by making new animals, and generally improve with age to some degree.
Once they die, though, all that's over, and they soon rot, or are eaten by other animals.
Your simile is baseless, I'm afraid. Back to the drawing board you go.
I'm thinking of the car as representing the species, not the individual. But you are right. If an analogy is perfect, it becomes the thing itself.
Let me be clear. I firmly believe in evolution - DE-evolution. But evolution is not what made the individual types of biological machines. It is what happened to them after they were created.
Evolution is not rust, and it does produce fitter organisms in response to environmental change.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1634489/posts
Sure they are the same species. But within any species there is a lot of variation. If the variation was not caused by mutation, where did all the variation come from? If there was one pair of dogs on the Ark, then where did all the many different dog breeds, that make the Westminster Dog Show possible, come from?
Thank you for telling me. I am not good at telling when someone is facetious.
"Are they not the same species? Can jews not have sex with palestinians and produce offspring?
"
Aren't all WHAT the same species. All humans can mate and produce offspring. They are of the same species. There is no real difference biologically between, say, Jews and Palestinians. Indeed, they come from the same place, and are, essentially identical. Yet, any human can mate with any other human, since they are all of the same species.
Humans, however, cannot mate with chimpanzees and produce offspring, despite the close genetic similarity between these two species. And chimpanzees cannot mate and reproduce with gibbons, either, or any of the other primate species. Do you have any idea how many species of primates there are...and that's just primates?
Danged big ark that must have been. Even just having a mating pair of all the primates would have pretty much filled it up, when you consider food and water and the like. 300 cubits isn't all that long a boat, really.
The Ark's a nice story, though. It's a nice cautionary tale. Do what the deity says or something bad will happen. See what happened back in Noah's day? Play nice, children, or something like that might happen to you.
Oh, no...no more floods, though. See that rainbow? Yeah...the next time it'll be fire or something, so you'd better act right and behave.
Now, let me tell you the story of Lot. That's another example of what happens when you're bad.
Lots of nice links ping
"Thank you for telling me. I am not good at telling when someone is facetious."
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