"And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their way, for God is gracious, merciful." Sura 9:5
""Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the Last Day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled. The Jews say, "Ezra is a son of God"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is a son of God." Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the saying of the infidels of old! God do battle with them! How are they misguided? They take their teachers, and their monks, and the Messiah, son of Mary, for lords besides God, though bidden to worship one God only. There is no God but He! Far from His glory be what they associate with Him! Fain would they put out God's light with their mouths: but God only desireth to perfect His light, albeit the infidels abhor it. He it is who hath sent His Apostle with the guidance and a religion of the truth, that He may make it victorious over every other religion, albeit they who assign partners to God be averse from it." - Sura 9:30
If you are really a Catholic, you are very ignorant about this "faith" you defend. Read the Koran. Read at least some of the Hadiths (which are worse). The calls of violence and conquest in the Old Testement are not comparable, as they were limited in scope. There were no "kill the infidel" commands that extend into the future.
To this point I concede, I have not read these berses before only ones that were taken out of context in the stories of the Quarashis.
My response:
MaJiN SaMWiSE
Posted 7/15/2006 8:52:00 PM
message detail As a simple rule of thumb, know that there is an agenda to demonize Islam.
Many of these verses are taken out of context. For example you quoted Surah 9 verse 5.
look at the the first verse in Surah 9
009.001
YUSUFALI: A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
We arent allowed to attack anyone of which we have made treaties with. That verse that you quoted is saying not to engage in war during the Islamic sacred months.
MaJiN SaMWiSE
Posted 7/15/2006 8:54:03 PM
message detail ""Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the Last Day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled"
Non-Muslims living under Muslim law must pay a tax. (Jizya)
Under Islamic law, All Muslims can be drafted to war. But under Islamic law Non Muslim minorities are not allowed to be drafted. But instead they must pay the Jizya.
MaJiN SaMWiSE
Posted 7/15/2006 8:58:42 PM
message detail 002.190 And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
002.191
And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out
from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer
than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until
they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
002.192 But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
002.193 And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
MaJiN SaMWiSE
Posted 7/15/2006 9:01:19 PM
message detail 8:61 "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). "
60:8
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers.
The entire Quran must be presented in its entirety during these debates because logically Muslims must follow the entire Quran. They cannot pick and choose. (There is also abrogation but that is a little more advanced)
Just to show you how easy it is to take things out of context,
Deuteronomy
13. And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
14. But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
15. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations
From a Muslim on anoter forum.