Posted on 08/20/2006 5:37:25 AM PDT by Rte66
I think Karr has been many things through his life time. He is one screwed up person. His mother "tended" to raise him as a girl, He liked women many years younger than himself (2 marriages) - Now he is is a total flamer (videos from Thai show this) - and he was visiting a sex charge operation that specializes in ladyboys.
Let me go through the rest of the thread and see what has been answered, so I don't duplicate.
I will say one thing. Karr was born in Conyers, GA, which the Ramsey attorney Lin Wood kept spouting off about. I still say, so what?
In Dec 1964, John Ramsey would've been a junior in college at Michigan State, in Theta Chi fraternity, and Patsy would've been an 8-yo living in Parkersburg, WV.
BBL
damn - total typos in my last post.
Basically I don't even think Karr knows who he is and his history and current life style show this.
http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/national/article/0,1406,KNS_350_4933543,00.html
Karr's email address is date of JonBenet death
By ANN IMSE
August 20, 2006
The email address that helped track down John Mark Karr in Thailand was December251996(at)yahoo.com - the date of her murder.
Those e-mails to Boulder, Colo., journalism professor Michael Tracy included a now-infamous request that Tracy stand at JonBenet's house on the anniversary of her death and say aloud a poem to "JonBenet, my love." They came from that address and were signed "Daxis," according to information given to Thai authorities by U.S. officials seeking their help in finding and arresting him.
Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul of the Thai Immigration Police said Karr told him Daxis was simply a word he invented.
The search for the man now accused of JonBenet's murder began when Tracy sent e-mails from Daxis to independent investigators in Colorado Springs, Colo. When the e-mails reached the Boulder District Attorney's office, prosecutors found enough in them to warrant a serious look at Karr as JonBenet's killer.
What happened next indicates there may have been enough detail in the e-mails to make Boulder officials believe they had their man.
The tracking of John Mark Karr began a couple of months ago, Tumrongsiskul said.
"We were informed by ICE (U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement) that the suspect of this case has come to Thailand," said Tumrongsiskul. He added that ICE didn't know the man's name at that point, and had just an e-mail address, his Internet Provider, and therefore the neighborhood of Bangkok where he'd been e-mailing.
The neighborhood was Thung Maha Mek, barely a kilometer from the general's office.
News reports in Bangkok say U.S. investigators got a break when Karr sent an envelope to Tracy by regular mail, and wrote a return address on the envelope of Bangkok, Thailand. The address had the name of a major thoroughfare, but no number or cross street.
Then ICE came up with the name: John Mark Karr. And Thai immigration police began searching for him.
Although Thai hotels report foreigners, the records are not automated, and the search took some time, the general said.
"And on the 11th of August, we found him." That was a Friday, and the general's office immediately informed ICE.
Not wanting to lose Karr, "we sent two or three officers to stay in that apartment building" to keep an eye on his whereabouts, Tumrongsiskul said. That was a major commitment of his officers' time, but "for the Americans, our good friends, we do it," he said.
The officers watched the suspect leave in the morning on his bicycle, but did not follow to see where he went. "He came back in the evening. Most of the time, he stayed in his room."
Thai officials do not believe he violated any local laws, the general said.
Within four days of the Thais' finding Karr, the Boulder District Attorney's office had a warrant for Karr's arrest on murder charges signed by Judge Roxanne Bailin on Aug. 15. Prosecutors sent it off to Thailand. On Aug. 16, the general received it and immediately revoked Karr's visa.
Karr is now back in the United States facing five charges, including first degree murder after deliberation. That implies prosecutors think they have enough evidence to prove the killing was planned. Another charge is first-degree murder-felony murder, which brings the full weight of a murder charge on anyone involved in a felony that leads to a murder.
Karr is also charged with first- and second-degree kidnapping and sexual assault on a child.
In the course of the investigation, Thai officials found that Karr had been in their country for much of the last year. He arrived for the first time on Oct 27, 2005, and over the next months departed three times on what appear to be "visa runs" - brief trips out of the country to comply with the expiration of a tourist visa and then re-enter Thailand on a new visa.
He flew out on Nov. 24 as his 30-day visa expired. He arrived again on Dec. 16 through the airport. He left for a few hours through the Malaysian land border on April 11 and returned the same day; and left again on June 5 and returned on June 6 from neighboring Malaysia.
News reports in Thailand say he failed a tryout for a teaching job in Bangkok in winter and again in June.
But on the June trip, Karr returned to Thailand with a special visa that allowed him to finally apply for a work permit, the general said. In August, he received his coveted Thai teacher's license.
With a license and the possibility of a work permit, a college degree in teaching and experience, Karr should have breezed into a job at a Bangkok school.
It's not known if he tried, until two weeks later. On Aug. 15, he applied at another Bangkok Christian school - rather late, since it was the first day of the term.
The next day, he was arrested.
The general said he did not believe the Americans even knew about Karr's potential new job with children, and it had nothing to do with the timing of the arrest warrant.
The efflorescence on the wine cellar floor was tan and white, mostly white. I don't know where the "red" description came from, unless it's a relatively newly released tidbit.
I've seen the photos; it's not red.
When I was a kid, I went to Fenocchio's in SF with my very strict parents. For some reason, way back then, it was OK to go to a place like that - don't ask me why.
The female impersonators who did the shows were beautiful and world renowned. What struck me at the time, and I never forgot, was that everything written about them said they were all men with regular "other" jobs and they had wives and families. I could never get over that.
Why would anything she gave the DA be put out in the press if it's evidence in an ongoing murder investigation?
And pedophiles are turned on by little children, not little children dressed up to look like women.
The pathologists said that the rigor indicated a time of death something like 9 p.m. to 2 a.m. Then when they added the putrefaction (smell on the body) noticeable by 1:30 p.m. when the body was found it pushed it back to 10 p.m; the earliest time allowed by the rigor. It's all an estimate based on body weight, estimated room temp, etc. If the room was any colder than what they assumed it would have happened even earlier.
I think the key take-away from it is that, regardless of EXACTLY when she died, she more likely died when the parents were still up and about.
That video, or at least one of them I've seen today from the Natl Enquirer, was from 1992. His oldest was a toddler between 1 and 2 years old, and his 2nd child was an infant in arms. The 3rd hadn't been born yet.
I think there is ample room for your objections about Burke in the forensics; or that Patsy didn't do it. But I do think the evidence is overwhelming that some kind of deception, for whatever reason, was going on. There are too many claims about that night that don't fit with a lot of forensics.
I'll post those 8 questions again so every one can look at them because I think it's really important to definitively answer those questions...
IIRC he dropped out of school before recieving the degree
Former Kilby school officials said Karr was facing a reprimand for his conduct in the classroom, including his behavior around girls in Sandra Ford's fifth-grade class.
Karr never showed up for a disciplinary meeting with school officials and withdrew from UNA a few days later.
IIRC He also withdrew from high school and later received his GED.
Well, one doubts after a long Christmas day that they were up until 2, unless there was some disturbance.
But it does seem like someone may have been watching the home to know right when they arrived and possibly even know when the parents went to bed. If they went to bed at 11, she could have been taken shortly thereafter.
However, the other scenario, of one of the parents messing with JonBenet once they arrived home and accidentally or not killing her and the other finding out, would explain the nightlong coverup and the Ramseys in their same clothing.
They married in 1989 and the twin girls who died were stillborn that same year, as I understand it. The next child was born in 1991, from what we can figure.
I thought the first living child was born in 1993 and is now 13, but every article has a different timeline in it, so now I don't really know.
Another article said they are all in their teens now, so they would have to be a minimum of 13, 14, 15-16. However, I think that was the same article that said they were all born in CA, which they weren't.
There are many deceptions in the Ramsey version of events; I agree.
I just found a new one on this thread today. Patsy told the cops that she dressed before she found JonBenet missing?? Now THAT does seem strange. A woman of her means and wardrobe just DOES NOT put on her party clothing from the night before. Sorry. Does not compute. We were giving her a pass, saying that she probably was walking around in her nightie and only whipped on whatever was handy while she was in a distressed state before the police got there.
The pineapple and little Burke's voice on the tape were never explained. And that fiber evidence seems fishy too. The family may be totally innocent but some things could have been explained in detail by them to help them look more innocent.
Regardless of whodunit, there are some serious forensics questions that need to be answered. Some of them are:
1.) Patsy and Burke's fingerprints were all over the bowl of pineapple which we know was the last thing Jonbenet ate. The bowl was taken down from a high shelf. If not taken down by Patsy or the intruder, then who? [pineapple was the last food she ate, according to pathologists and only Patsy's and Burkes fingerprints were on the bowl]
2.) How did Patsy's jacket fibers end up entwined in the ligature, on the inside of the tape that covered jonbenet's mouth, and ALSO in the paint tray from which the stick to make the ligature was used? She said she never wore that jacket down there.
3.) Why, according to pathologists, was the tape put over Jonbenet's mouth AFTER she died? [According to pathologists, there are characteristic indications on the inside of the tape when a person is still alive]
4.) Why were both Patsy and John apparently wearing the same clothes they had on the night before? Patsy said she got dressed BEFORE she found the note, so would a hurried dressing explain that?
5.) Why did Patsy claim that Burke was asleep during the morning of the discovery of the ransom note when he was clearly heard on the 911 tape? What did he mean by saying "but what did I do" and "but what did you find"? Why did she then let him sleep until 9 that morning in his own bed, when they had planned to all be up by 6, on such a traumatic day? Was Burke really, really tired?
6.) Why was a 45 lb. girl dragged?
7.) The coroner pinned her time of death very close to 10 p.m. How did an intruder, by virtue of the theory, botch a kidnapping (and thus write a long, 3 page rambling note), THEN kill her all between about 10:30 and 11 p.m. that night? By all appearances of forensics, the note was written after she died, not before. That defies the intruder theory. Even if he was already in the house when they got home he would have had to kill jonbenet at about the same time they walked in the door.
8.) What type of blow to the head would an intruder likely put on the child's head that would not create a laceration? An intruder in the bathtub? Why?
9.) Why was the fact that Burke and his friend both testified that Burke owned a pair of Hi-Tec boots never given any play in the MSM? Why did Patsy and John deny that he owned them, only to confess that he did when confronted with Burke's testimony (actually, "affiant")?
10.) When were the supposed stun gun marks made on Jonbenet's body? Do we really know if they were delivered on the night she was murdered? How would we? Were they really stun gun marks? [They never made a positive determination because they didn't investigate that at autopsy].
11.) Who called 911 from the Ramsey home 3 days before her murder then didn't speak and hung up? Why did a return call 6 minutes later result in an answering machine response? Why were the police told when they responded that all was well?
That's too much basic forensic evidence to ignore, regardless of what we may conjecture about how the Ramseys thought or what they would have done in x or y situations.
"...I've seen the photos; it's not red..."
The photos both of the cellar floor, and of the stuff in the boot tread, that were shown on the program, looked pretty red to me. Now, those photos might have been taken with a filter to enhance the color, but I'm describing them as I saw them. If you are familiar with the notions of hue, value, and chroma, in quantifying color, the color appeared to be somewhere between a 2.5YR 5/8 and a 5YR 4/6. That's a lot redder than "tan".
Apologies to all, I left one off, number 12. I'll reply to myself this time so I don't hammer everyone else...
Regardless of whodunit, there are some serious forensics questions that need to be answered. Some of them are:
1.) Patsy and Burke's fingerprints were all over the bowl of pineapple which we know was the last thing Jonbenet ate. The bowl was taken down from a high shelf. If not taken down by Patsy or the intruder, then who? [pineapple was the last food she ate, according to pathologists and only Patsy's and Burkes fingerprints were on the bowl]
2.) How did Patsy's jacket fibers end up entwined in the ligature, on the inside of the tape that covered jonbenet's mouth, and ALSO in the paint tray from which the stick to make the ligature was used? She said she never wore that jacket down there.
3.) Why, according to pathologists, was the tape put over Jonbenet's mouth AFTER she died? [According to pathologists, there are characteristic indications on the inside of the tape when a person is still alive]
4.) Why were both Patsy and John apparently wearing the same clothes they had on the night before? Patsy said she got dressed BEFORE she found the note, so would a hurried dressing explain that?
5.) Why did Patsy claim that Burke was asleep during the morning of the discovery of the ransom note when he was clearly heard on the 911 tape? What did he mean by saying "but what did I do" and "but what did you find"? Why did she then let him sleep until 9 that morning in his own bed, when they had planned to all be up by 6, on such a traumatic day? Was Burke really, really tired?
6.) Why was a 45 lb. girl dragged?
7.) The coroner pinned her time of death very close to 10 p.m. How did an intruder, by virtue of the theory, botch a kidnapping (and thus write a long, 3 page rambling note), THEN kill her all between about 10:30 and 11 p.m. that night? By all appearances of forensics, the note was written after she died, not before. That defies the intruder theory. Even if he was already in the house when they got home he would have had to kill jonbenet at about the same time they walked in the door.
8.) What type of blow to the head would an intruder likely put on the child's head that would not create a laceration? An intruder in the bathtub? Why?
9.) Why was the fact that Burke and his friend both testified that Burke owned a pair of Hi-Tec boots never given any play in the MSM? Why did Patsy and John deny that he owned them, only to confess that he did when confronted with Burke's testimony (actually, "affiant")?
10.) When were the supposed stun gun marks made on Jonbenet's body? Do we really know if they were delivered on the night she was murdered? How would we? Were they really stun gun marks? [They never made a positive determination because they didn't investigate that at autopsy].
11.) Who called 911 from the Ramsey home 3 days before her murder then didn't speak and hung up? Why did a return call 6 minutes later result in an answering machine response? Why were the police told when they responded that all was well?
12.) Why did both the flashlight, which was sitting prominently on the kitchen island, and the baseball bat have no fingerprints on them whatever? Did any of the Ramseys ever touch either?
That's too much basic forensic evidence to ignore, regardless of what we may conjecture about how the Ramseys thought or what they would have done in x or y situations.
You're talking about the shadows and dark brown part, then? It does have a reddish tint to it, but the actual bootprint is in a light tan area.
When you look at the whole room, there is more concrete gray-colored, white or light gray, growth than anything else.
They just showed the video again on ET. The wedding video was a FRIEND'S wedding in 1987, where JMK was singing. The other videos were in 1992, when he had two children.
Lara is very pretty, as everyone who knows her has said.
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