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A Mathematician's View of Evolution
The Mathematical Intelligencer ^ | Granville Sewell

Posted on 09/20/2006 9:51:34 AM PDT by SirLinksalot

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To: Last Visible Dog
Well that added absolutely nothing to the debate.

And I see you share your fellow CR/IDers' sense of humor.

581 posted on 09/26/2006 9:21:08 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Critical Thinking"="I don't understand it so it must be wrong.")
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To: Last Visible Dog
Exactly - no pattern - just random. Natural Selection is not driving the hawk therefore Natural Selection is an observation of many points of data, not a force or structure. Natural Selection only exists in our minds.

The hawk will kill the easiest prey. The prey will develop instinctive counters to the hawk's attempts. When the prey cannot adapt, it and its line will cease to exist. If the hawk cannot adapt to the change, the hawk's line will cease to exist.

The pattern makes itself clear.

That you cannot see it is of no concern to the hawk, the prey, or the educated.

582 posted on 09/26/2006 9:24:28 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Critical Thinking"="I don't understand it so it must be wrong.")
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To: freedumb2003
And I see you share your fellow CR/IDers' sense of humor.

I think you just made a bigoted comment - was that your plan?

583 posted on 09/26/2006 9:30:23 PM PDT by Last Visible Dog
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To: freedumb2003
The pattern makes itself clear.

If the pattern is clear - please state that pattern (seems all you have is "animals eat, therefore Natural Selection is not random")

Sounds like your position is: Animals eat what they can therefore Natural Selection is not random.

Not a very logical position.

584 posted on 09/26/2006 9:33:38 PM PDT by Last Visible Dog
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To: freedumb2003
That you cannot see it is of no concern to the hawk, the prey, or the educated.

This is pretty funny - seems freedmb2203 thinks he/she/it is the spokesmodel for "educated" people.

*** Delusions of Grandeur ***

BTW: you sure do like paining with broad brush.

So you position is basically to close your eyes, plug your ears and yell "I can hear any difficult questions"

585 posted on 09/26/2006 9:40:19 PM PDT by Last Visible Dog
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To: Last Visible Dog
This is pretty funny - seems freedmb2203 thinks he/she/it is the spokesmodel for "educated" people.

"He" will do. And I merely speak for those who understand.

*** Delusions of Grandeur ***

Beats the heck out of illusions of Willful Ignorance.

BTW: you sure do like paining with broad brush.

Please tell me where my brush misses the corners.

So you position is basically to close your eyes, plug your ears and yell "I can hear any difficult questions"

Feel free to ask the "difficult questions." I live to serve.

586 posted on 09/26/2006 9:51:00 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Critical Thinking"="I don't understand it so it must be wrong.")
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To: Last Visible Dog
I think you just made a bigoted comment - was that your plan?

A little sensitive there -- did I hit a nerve?

587 posted on 09/26/2006 9:51:49 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Critical Thinking"="I don't understand it so it must be wrong.")
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To: Last Visible Dog
If the pattern is clear - please state that pattern (seems all you have is "animals eat, therefore Natural Selection is not random") Sounds like your position is: Animals eat what they can therefore Natural Selection is not random. Not a very logical position.

I was trying to use your analogy so that I could keep the discussion in a realm you can understand. If you have another analogy, I can certainly help you using your terms.

588 posted on 09/26/2006 9:53:43 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Critical Thinking"="I don't understand it so it must be wrong.")
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To: freedumb2003
And I merely speak for those who understand.

So you think you are the spokeemodel for "those who understand"

Beats the heck out of illusions of Willful Ignorance

When did you have illusions of Willful Ignorance?

Feel free to ask the "difficult questions." I live to serve. >/b>

State the pattern of Natural Selection

589 posted on 09/26/2006 10:00:25 PM PDT by Last Visible Dog
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To: freedumb2003
A little sensitive there -- did I hit a nerve?

You did just claim a large group of people all act the same. I am not the one painting with the extremely large brush.

590 posted on 09/26/2006 10:01:49 PM PDT by Last Visible Dog
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To: freedumb2003
I was trying to use your analogy so that I could keep the discussion in a realm you can understand. If you have another analogy, I can certainly help you using your terms.

I see - I made you state that silly position. Gosh I am powerful.

What was stated is not an analogy (please look up the word analogy) - it was a real-world example - the hawk eating is not an analogy - hawks do eat. (and it you read the thread you would see it was not "my analogy")

Still waiting for you to state the pattern of Natural Selection.

591 posted on 09/26/2006 10:06:40 PM PDT by Last Visible Dog
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To: jwalsh07
The problem goes deeper than that. If the prebiotic chemistry was conducive to the synthesis of purines and pyrimidines then it is incompatible with the synthesis of ribose. Tough nut to crack there even with a nutcracker.

Details, please?

In the meantime, I will venture to blow some smoke. :-)

Is your statement necessarily true...? That is, let us agree that an environment conducive to making purine and pyrimidines is incompatible with synthesis of ribose.

Could the environment *first* have been suitable for purine and pyrimidine, cranked out a bunch of them, and then changed in such a way that ribose got made?

Two sub-questions.

1) How stable are *existing* purine and pyrimidine in a ribose-making environment? (and vice versa)?

2) How hard is it to change the environment between favoring making purine/pyrimidine vs. ribose?

Cheers!

592 posted on 09/26/2006 10:55:07 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: freedumb2003
The prey will develop instinctive counters to the hawk's attempts.

What is the definition of "instinctive" in this sentence?

What is the physical mechanism causing the instinct to form? Learned reactions, I can buy. But "instinct"...? How?

Cheers!

593 posted on 09/26/2006 10:57:22 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: grey_whiskers
Try this and this.

These guys explain oh so much better than my blue collar ever could.

594 posted on 09/26/2006 11:10:43 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
Put on my tsunami-sized "to read" list.

Please, if you could send me a tickler email in a week or so, I'd be grateful :-)

Cheers!

595 posted on 09/26/2006 11:28:33 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: Last Visible Dog
So what is your point? This thread was about a human being able to outrun animals.

I was using a perturbation theory approach to the "one human, one predator" scenario.

Even if the predators can catch one person--would the sustained-high-average-speed of people work if they were in a group?

And the fire remark was meant to show that people don't need to rely solely on running away.

Nowadays, they can use a rifle.

Cheers!

596 posted on 09/27/2006 12:04:55 AM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: Last Visible Dog
Me: Isn't a hawk eating dark rabbits on the snow a pattern?

You: The hawk knows nothing about Natural Selection - it eats what it can. The only pattern observed is Hawks eat - I hope you don't think the fact that Hawks eat proves natural selection is not random

I don't understand; the hawk eats what it can see, this happens to contrast with the background. Do you have a problem with that? Why isn't that a pattern?

In what sense is the hawk's meal random?

... The only pattern observed is Hawks eat ...

No, it isn't the only pattern observed; they eat what they can see, in the case of Arctic hares, that means ones that don't have white coats. Why don't the white-coated rabbits have more white-coated babies? If they do, why doesn't this count as natural selection?

Look - if Natural Selection is not random than something most be controlling

Huh? How does that follow? Are we using he words "random" and "pattern" in the same way?! What is wrong with saying that the hawk selects the dark colored rabbits against the snow? Doesn't it? So what's in control?

597 posted on 09/27/2006 12:16:04 AM PDT by Virginia-American (What do you call an honest creationist? An evolutionist.)
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To: Tribune7

How important is the truth about anything?


598 posted on 09/27/2006 5:10:09 AM PDT by ahayes (My strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is pure.)
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To: grey_whiskers
In the meantime, I will venture to blow some smoke. :-)

Another possibility--different compounds were made in different areas, run-off carried some away and mixed them together.

599 posted on 09/27/2006 5:11:52 AM PDT by ahayes (My strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is pure.)
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To: ahayes

There are some things that it is critical to know the truth about. There are something it doesn't matter hardly a whit. Where do you put knowing the age of the Earth on this spectrum?</p>


600 posted on 09/27/2006 5:18:15 AM PDT by Tribune7
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