Skip to comments.The Official Battlestar Galactica Season 3 Live Thread (Est/Cst)
Posted on 10/06/2006 5:39:03 PM PDT by KevinDavis
Well this is the live thread for Season 3 of Battlestar Galactica.. Basically for people who lives in the Eastern and Central times zones. There will be another thread for the Western Time Zone...
So say we all..
Humans have the ability to be murderous and cruel. We also have the choice to not be murderous and cruel. Cylons also seem to have the ability to make that choice, it is not a choice that has presented to them to make.
Sharon didn't just violate her code once. She did it a number of times.
This is the first episode that I thought Roslin acted with any sense.
The experience on New Caprica seemd to have matured her.
They are still programmed machines built by machines.
If you can place any credibility in Skinner and his ilk, so are we. Many human biological functions (such as blood sugar/insulin curves) are classic problems in feedback control systems text books.
Certain parts of that are debatable. Recalling that the story is Science fiction, remember that Sharon rebelled against programming when she took Helo in different directions than she was instructed to do on Caprica.
"Certain parts of that are debatable. Recalling that the story is Science fiction, remember that Sharon rebelled against programming when she took Helo in different directions than she was instructed to do on Caprica."
But she still forgot to tell that Brother Nevil was a cylon.
Cavil. Brother Cavil.
Any idea on who you think will be the, "Imperious Leader," in this series?
Please read this article and this article. In particulare, compare the example that Dr. Hare gives that he suggested for the movie Malice with the scene between Capria 6 and the baby in the miniseries. The problem is that almost all of the evidence in the show is that the Cylons are all psychopaths without a conscience.
What gives a human "humanity" and makes them truly trustworthy is a conscience. A human without a conscience can never really be trusted, because they lack the conscience and empathy that make normal humans consider the impact of their behavior on other. All of the evidence so far, from Caprica 6 and the baby through the occupation of New Caprica and treatment of Baltar by Caprica 6 suggest that the Cylons lack any real conscience or empathy. It's all about them.
What about Sharon? A lot of her behavior is self-centered and about what she needs. When her needs change, so does her behavior. Do you expect her to remain a good soldier if she finds out that the baby was alive and she was lied to? I don't. She's a bomb waiting to blow up, just as she was before she shot Adama. Let's not forget that she's changed her mood and mind over and over again, as the situation changes. What makes you sure tht this is the real Sharon and not just act?
But let's assume that Sharon and the Caprica that loves Baltar have some small measure of empathy and conscience. Hare and others estimate that up to 4% of all people are psychopaths, with only a fraction of those becomming serial killers and so forth. The rest become those people who use and abuse others for fun and profit and just can't be trusted. Let's flip that percentage around. Let's suppose that 4% of Cylons actually have a conscience. Can humans really put their entire future and the survival of their species at risk in the hope that either the psychopaths will leave them alone or the 4% will be able to control the other 96%? Where do you think things would have cone on New Caprica if the people hadn't left, given that the executions were starting?
In short, I think you are projecting human assumptions onto machines that aren't human (and to the credit of the writers, don't think or act quite like normal humans). Consider this quote, from the second article, "Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless." Don't assume the Cylons have a conscience because nearly everything we've seen so far suggests that they don't.
Normal Humans are not a blank slate. They come with the capacity to feel empathy, feel guilt when they wrong others, and have a visceral negative response to things they think are unfair. See the two articles on psychopaths that I listed above as well as this article which talks about why "Scientists say morality may be hardwired into our brains by evolution".
In short, if you remove the emotional response that people have toward certain moral decisions, you don't get humane decisions. You get ruthlessly efficient ones. Remove empathy and a conscience and you get decisions based on self-interest without regard for others. So unless you hardwire your machines with a consience (e.g., Asimov's 3 Laws of Robotics), empathy, and a visceral sense of fairness, you won't get humane behavior. You'll get ruthlessly efficient and selfish behavior. And that's exactly how the writers are portraying the Cylons in most cases.
With due acknowledgement to RandallFlagg, the character is named Brother Cavil, and Dean Stockwell is doing an excellent job, well worth the cost of the actor. That was written as a choice that Sharon made out of her grief over the child that she believed to have been murdered by the powers-that-be.
This was either a plot hole, or an interesting question that bears investigation:
i don't know if you have children or not, but what mother EVER forgets the features of her newborn infant? Now in this story we're dealing with a Cylon, who can never forget details. Sharon saw a dead baby, and ASSUMED that it was her child. It was not a decision that a Cylon would make. It was a decision where fact was clouded by emotion. A human mistake.
There was one interesting thing Sharon/Athena said, though: "But this Cylon will keep her word, even if it means she's the last Cylon in the universe. Can a human being do that?"
Interesting that they'd pull out the, "LTCDR Data," line.
Thanks for the character correction but you all knew who I meant.
We'll see if Sharon can overcome her programming, my guess is she can't. Of course, with Helo around she doesn't have to.
Don't sweat it. I still love ya.
Thats one of the funnies frackin things I have EVER seen! LOL!
Did you make that or find it? Simply brilliant. Even better than a Television Without Pity recap.
I'm gonna watch; will reply either tonite or tomorrow. Thanks a ton for the pingaroo
I'm gonna watch; will reply either tonite or tomorrow. Thanks a ton for the pingaroo
oops sorry for the double post
SUURE you are.
Good to see the Old Starbuck back....
Stuck at work again. Recording it, though.
intense show tonight.
it was Adama who provoked the cylon attack on the colonies.
but the cylons sent him it seems, they deliberately missed taking him out, letting him escape.
Good show.. Intesnse but good.. I have a feeling Bulldog is coming back...
The final scene was priceless.
I do not understand what was happening during that sequence when the centurion was ordered to shoot Cylon whats her name.
Didn't she take the place of the ship's control unit?
Let's see... Redemption for Ty. Forgiveness for Bill, they would have come anyway. And Bush made a mistake for asking Rumsfeld to resign. Anything else?
Same here.. He seem to grow a pair since the New Caprica arc...
(Sorry, I still haven't really warmed to the character.)
So, how was it tonight? And why no BSG next week?
She's their best pilot. She's just not perfect. I can see how a woman in that environment would have a few struggles.
Thanksgiving holidays the likely reason.
Intense... Usually on holiday weekends, SCIFI show classic movies like Snakehead Terror
Maybe they decided they weren't interesting stories. And really only 4 episodes have happened since they got off New Caprica and this is the first one to ignore it. And from what I saw of the next episode it looks like many of the boxing matches are pitting occupation survivors vs rescuers.
It's not a few days, it was long enough for Apollo to lose about 40 pounds, that's gotta be at least a couple of months.
I don't think it's logical disconnects, it's stories they've decided aren't interesting. Happens all the time, remember they skipped ahead 1 year in one episode last season. There's a territory Ron wants to get the story too, and distractions are being sacrified.
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