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Anna Nicole Smith, The Investigation #3

Posted on 04/07/2007 3:14:35 PM PDT by mom4kittys

Thread Number 3


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: aboutthebaby; anna; annanicole; ans; deadwrongdaddy; getalife; giveitup; hksisafillintheblank; howietheleach; ilovelarry; killingmesoftly; larryisawesome; larryisthedaddy; larrysalunatic; lazyboylarry; lovechild; movealong; nojusticenopeace; oneheroinevirgie; overbonbonsdeadbody; prayersfordannielynn; ritaisaliar; ritaisnotaliar; shameonlarry; spermdonorsanonymous; sternsaresquatters; teambirkhead; thefatladywarmingup; thefirm; turkeybasterd; virgieisevil; virgieisnotevil
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To: Kimberly GG

Almost sounds like some just want to disrupt this thread. Whatever, it sure takes attention off HKS.


10,501 posted on 05/04/2007 8:59:56 AM PDT by Jane Austen
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To: tabor

See my post #s 10,499 & 10,500.


10,502 posted on 05/04/2007 9:15:52 AM PDT by TexKat ((Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.))
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To: mom4kittys

Yeah, a roombox is a diorama on dollhouse scale of 1 inch equals 1 foot, or 1:12. A very diabolical murderer would make a roombox of the crime scene and either send it to CSI people or have it found somewhere, for clues - sometimes before the crime, sometimes after.

Gil keeps them in glass boxes in his office “now”.

The roombox episodes were this current season. Nick was buried last season or the one before? Seems like a very long time ago. I really should go check the website about the roombox contest.


10,503 posted on 05/04/2007 9:43:17 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: TrishaSC

For all intents and purposes, I think HKS still has legal custody of Dannielynn until the June 8 hearing, finalizing the handover to Larry.

This is supposed to just be temporary custody for permitted travel to the US, as I understand it. I could definitely be wrong about that and I’m sure I will be corrected, if so!


10,504 posted on 05/04/2007 9:46:33 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: Jane Austen

“””Almost sounds like some just want to disrupt this thread. Whatever, it sure takes attention off HKS.”””

Generally speaking - from the beginning - everyone wanted Larry to get the baby - wanted Anna and Dannielynn buried in the USA and to see HK$ and KE held accountable for suspected misdeeds.

Somewhere in the middle - there were differences of opinion on estranged mother Virgie’s motives and whether she did or didn’t deserve any consideration in the final burial sites of her unmarried daughter and unmarried grandson - both US citizens. Shortly thereafter, once paternity was certain, there were the same divisions regarding custody, guardianship and visitation rights by Virgie.

At this point - there are still differences regarding Virgie’s involvement in the life and financial issues regarding her granddaughter, Dannielynn

At this point, there appears to be full support for Virgie hanging tough with regard to seeking justice in the deaths of Anna and Daniel. There are differences in how Virgie should pay for all the legal advice she needs.

You are correct; Comments/outrage at HK$ and KE as drug enablers and other suspected bad acts has subsided. There still appears to be no active support for either HK$ or KE.


10,505 posted on 05/04/2007 9:53:40 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: sodpoodle

“There still appears to be no active support for either HK$ or KE.”

That’s certainly correct in this corner! The only support I have regarding them is support for a prompt investigation/prosecution.


10,506 posted on 05/04/2007 10:02:25 AM PDT by windchime (I consider the left one of the fronts on the WOT)
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To: Rte66

I have neither read nor heard anything that disputes your thoughts on the current custody of DL.


10,507 posted on 05/04/2007 10:05:20 AM PDT by windchime (I consider the left one of the fronts on the WOT)
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To: sodpoodle

Good.


10,508 posted on 05/04/2007 10:06:59 AM PDT by Jane Austen
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To: sodpoodle
Are you optimistic that anyone in the justice system or in LE is investigating the circumstances surrounding these 2 deaths?

I'm not. :(

10,509 posted on 05/04/2007 10:08:07 AM PDT by gopheraj
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To: sodpoodle
she’s baaaaaaaaaaaacccccccccccckkkkkk!

Just for a visit;) Missed y’all. Dropped in on this thread - 250K views about 12K posts. FReepers going ape! Of course it is political - apologies if you know about it.

I'm baaaaaaacccckkkk too! Can't stay long. Comcast blew it again and i had no internet for a week. Then there was the Vegas trip. Then we finished moving. Now i gotta pay the bills before they take this house and all it's furnishings away. But wanted to say HI EVERYONE! I'm still around. Just very busy. Catch up with all the comings and goings in a few days, once things settle down.

Ya'll take care of each other ok?

10,510 posted on 05/04/2007 10:11:05 AM PDT by uncitizen (Damn Comcast!)
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To: txrangerette; TexKat

Thanks, TexKat!

I just got back and am glad I started reading from most recent. TexKat has provided what Virgie said in posts #10,499 and #10,500.

IMO only . . . the problem is that Virgie responds different ways at different times - then sometimes changes the response within a testimony/interview.

IMO again . . . if she’s OK with selling photos that she’s taken or are in her posession, then it shouldn’t be a problem for anyone else. BUT, the inconsistencies do cause me to question her veracity.


10,511 posted on 05/04/2007 10:11:25 AM PDT by windchime (I consider the left one of the fronts on the WOT)
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To: BamaCat

Beautiful picture BamaCat. Thank you!


10,512 posted on 05/04/2007 10:20:33 AM PDT by TexKat ((Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.))
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To: Rte66
This is supposed to just be temporary custody for permitted travel to the US, as I understand it. I could definitely be wrong about that and I’m sure I will be corrected, if so!

IMO, this is EXACTLY what Virgie was referring to when she said the June hearing was just a formality. No matter what some think.

10,513 posted on 05/04/2007 10:23:33 AM PDT by gopheraj
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To: TrishaSC
Not one DARN person knows what is going on in that frickin’ courtroom but they can’t wait to pick up Stern’s talking points...i.e...”If it was up to me it would have been settled today”. BS...Dannielynn would not have gotten out of Horizons any sooner

I agree!!! The ONLY person who was not happy when they came out of the courtroom(s) was HKS. Not Larry. HE (HKS) was the one who was opposing what Virgie was doing. If he'd not been in the picture or not be allowed any kind of standing, then DL and LB would have been on their way, IMO

10,514 posted on 05/04/2007 10:23:46 AM PDT by gopheraj
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To: windchime; TexKat

Can someone help me out here...I’ve read both of TexKat’s posts and in trying to do a comparison, I’m failing to find any inconsitencies in what Vergie has stated. Now granted, I have Fibro brain fog today, but I’ve read both posts several times. Also, if we have somewhere a copy of the actual testimony about this, rather than an articles on it, can someone tell me where to find it, maybe it would help me to see the difference?

Thanks.


10,515 posted on 05/04/2007 10:25:04 AM PDT by Kimberly GG (DUNCAN HUNTER '08.....lframerica.com.....MARCH TO TAKE BACK AMERICA)
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To: Kimberly GG
I agree, but some don't want to believe what VA says.

Attorneys get out there and spout a lot of overblown crapola, IMO, so that when things get down to brass tacks they can come down to reality. This has always been my experience with them. Its like selling something. You figure out what you ACTUALLY want and then list it at a higher price so the buyer feels he has gotten a deal after "negotiating". O'Q saying custody, IMO, is just that.

10,516 posted on 05/04/2007 10:30:00 AM PDT by gopheraj
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To: sodpoodle; All

CORRECTION:

“””wanted Anna and Dannielynn buried in the USA”””

should have read “wanted Anna and Daniel buried in the USA

OMG lesson learned; don’t post unless you are wide awake!

bad sod!


10,517 posted on 05/04/2007 10:34:29 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: Kimberly GG

“””I’m failing to find any inconsitencies in what Vergie has stated..”””

I probably watch too many Crime & Investigation episodes, but if a suspect or witness makes 2 statements on separate occasions and they are ‘almost word for word and do not deviate in any detail’ usually the story is fabricated.

Inconsistencies are not lies.


10,518 posted on 05/04/2007 10:38:56 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: Kimberly GG

Kim
Here is Greta’s transcript interview with Virgie.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269821,00.html

Sorry it took so long to find it.
sod;)


10,519 posted on 05/04/2007 10:44:06 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: uncitizen

You went to Vegas and still have money to pay bills. I - am - amazed!!LOLL


10,520 posted on 05/04/2007 10:46:09 AM PDT by gopheraj
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To: sodpoodle

I agree...but I can’t even find where she’s been inconsistent :( Some days, I’m pretty useless!

In the meantime....not hide nor hair of Stearn...I suppose he’ll just blend back into the woodwork like Eroshevich has. I can only hope that there is some way, here in the USA, for Virgie to get justice.


10,521 posted on 05/04/2007 10:48:03 AM PDT by Kimberly GG (DUNCAN HUNTER '08.....lframerica.com.....MARCH TO TAKE BACK AMERICA)
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To: sodpoodle

Oh...no, I’m sorry, you must have misunderstood...I’m looking for a transcript from the Florida hearing where she talks about any money she made. I want to compare it with the Greta show’s. Sorry.


10,522 posted on 05/04/2007 10:50:23 AM PDT by Kimberly GG (DUNCAN HUNTER '08.....lframerica.com.....MARCH TO TAKE BACK AMERICA)
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To: Kimberly GG

Nancy Grace Transcript   Anna Nicole Daughter Custody Hearing Postponed Again

Aired April 13, 2007 - 20:00:00   ET

The 'unidentified female' in the video clip was Debra Rose, Virgie's attorney:

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you will note from the record, my client applied for custody as of day one. Then her daughter died, and there were no definitive person of the father. She was the only known relative of Dannielynn, undisputable.

Even Virgie's Bahamian attorney got the time of seeking custody incorrect.  Confusion is understandable when the attorney is using the word 'custody' and Virgie is using the benign 'visitation'.    I'm confident most posters here do know the difference, but the clients and media are using the terms interchangeably (along with guardianship).  

The gag order impairs the understanding of the process by the public, but for now I'm assuming Virgie's attorney knows the difference since she drew up and filed the papers.

10,523 posted on 05/04/2007 10:54:32 AM PDT by windchime (I consider the left one of the fronts on the WOT)
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To: Kimberly GG

“”” Some days, I’m pretty useless!”””
Ditto here;)

I knew what you were saying and then went stupid LOL

I agrre that if Virgie’s comments vary, those are relatively small details in the big picture. She comes across as unscripted and unrehearsed with all her endearing and irritating “ums and ahs” and “you knows” - simply ‘regular folk’. JMHO


10,524 posted on 05/04/2007 10:55:18 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: Kimberly GG; A Citizen Reporter

Sorry to be so long. Was busy finding the other transcript.

As far as I know, there isn’t a transcript on the hearing. A Citizen Reporter did some transcription from her video recording, but most of it concentrated on HKS. Here’s a link to her page:

http://www.freerepublic.com/~acitizenreporter/


10,525 posted on 05/04/2007 11:03:38 AM PDT by windchime (I consider the left one of the fronts on the WOT)
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To: windchime; All
Well, now that's a very interesting statement from Virgie's attorney.

Awhile back, I posted that I had read somewhere that the reason for Anna's 'bring it on, mommy' statement....might have been because Virgie had hired an attorney and filed for custody of Danielynn after Daniel died, but BEFORE Anna died and Anna was none to pleased, resulting in that seething video.

From windchime's post:

"UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you will note from the record, my client applied for custody as of day one . Then her daughter died , and there were no definitive person of the father. She was the only known relative of Dannielynn, undisputable."

Virgie applied for custody of Danielynn BEFORE Anna died. Am I reading that correctly?
10,526 posted on 05/04/2007 11:04:53 AM PDT by Kimberly GG (DUNCAN HUNTER '08.....lframerica.com.....MARCH TO TAKE BACK AMERICA)
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To: windchime

thank you!


10,527 posted on 05/04/2007 11:06:19 AM PDT by Kimberly GG (DUNCAN HUNTER '08.....lframerica.com.....MARCH TO TAKE BACK AMERICA)
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To: Kimberly GG

I thought Rose had misspoken on the time, but that may not be the case. Hmmmm.


10,528 posted on 05/04/2007 11:07:52 AM PDT by windchime (I consider the left one of the fronts on the WOT)
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To: Kimberly GG

You’re welcome!


10,529 posted on 05/04/2007 11:09:47 AM PDT by windchime (I consider the left one of the fronts on the WOT)
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To: Kimberly GG

“””””Virgie had hired an attorney and filed for custody of Danielynn after Daniel died, but BEFORE Anna died and Anna was none to pleased, resulting in that seething video.””””

WOW!- if that is true then Virgie was trying to do what some posters have suggested she should have done - get Dannielynn away from the drugged up Anna and HK$.

I expect they will acknowledge Virgie tried to do the right thing but add “for the money”
JMHO


10,530 posted on 05/04/2007 11:11:15 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: windchime

I think what she meant was that Virgie had filed for custody after Daniel died (from day one), and then, Anna died. But I also think that once LB was determined, by DNA, to be the father, since then she has always said she only wanted to be the grandma, to have visitation. She just wanted to make certain that whether it be her, or LB, that DL was no longer in the custody of HKS.

I am trying to remember where I read someone speculating this to be true...Virgie was upset that Danny had died/the drug situation and she blamed HKS and didn’t want DL anywhere near him...I think it was a message posted on that gaysocialite (sp?) place. I only went there once so I think I remember it being there. Going to go look ;)


10,531 posted on 05/04/2007 11:16:54 AM PDT by Kimberly GG (DUNCAN HUNTER '08.....lframerica.com.....MARCH TO TAKE BACK AMERICA)
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To: Kimberly GG

“””I only went there once so I think I remember it being there. Going to go look ;)”””

Y’all come back now...y’heah? and hurry up!


10,532 posted on 05/04/2007 11:19:32 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: Kimberly GG

If Virgie was trying to remove DL from HKS influence (including a drugged-up Anna), it was the right thing to do.

If true, then this gives us a new perspective, perhaps ANS’s death at the HR WAS a botched detox effort to keep VA from succeeding in a custody battle. IMO, that does NOT exclude HKS and KE from culpability in ANS death.


10,533 posted on 05/04/2007 11:28:42 AM PDT by windchime (I consider the left one of the fronts on the WOT)
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To: sodpoodle

LOL...well, I did a cursory search, but I’d have to open up every single ANS link and search through every comment! I’m convinced I read it there, but I guess it doesn’t matter...it was mere speculation at the time...but when I asked here about it, we had no way of finding out when it was Virgie had filed. I think her lawyer spilled the beans ;)


10,534 posted on 05/04/2007 11:35:12 AM PDT by Kimberly GG (DUNCAN HUNTER '08.....lframerica.com.....MARCH TO TAKE BACK AMERICA)
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To: sodpoodle

Just imagine....she ran off to the Bahamas to prevent the DNA and LB getting custody....then Daniel dies....and then her mother tries to take DL out of that home to prevent her from dying too and warns Anna that she will be next!!! No wonder she was so drugged up and seething in that video....she was afraid she would loose DL to either her mom or LB, because of all the drugs and Daniel’s death!

I’ve gotta watch that video again....was there ANYTHING else she could have been referring to when she said, ‘bring it on, mommy’? Because at the time, I wondered what the heck she was referring to. Gotta go check that too ;)


10,535 posted on 05/04/2007 11:39:25 AM PDT by Kimberly GG (DUNCAN HUNTER '08.....lframerica.com.....MARCH TO TAKE BACK AMERICA)
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To: Kimberly GG

“. . . once LB was determined, by DNA, to be the father, since then she has always said she only wanted to be the grandma, to have visitation.”

That’s what VA says and then she extends desires to influence over DL’s financial affairs.

The DNA determination had been made when Rose made her comment and permanent custody of DL is still in a state of limbo. I’m just glad she’s away from HKS . . . for now.


10,536 posted on 05/04/2007 11:42:58 AM PDT by windchime (I consider the left one of the fronts on the WOT)
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To: Kimberly GG

“”””I’ve gotta watch that video again....was there ANYTHING else she could have been referring to when she said, ‘bring it on, mommy’? Because at the time, I wondered what the heck she was referring to. Gotta go check that too ;)”””

I understood that Virgie had accused HK$ of murder - and that he had scripted Anna to say all that stuff in support of him. You may have identified another reason for her rage. Poor Anna - and poor Virgie - one just trying to help the other and up jumps the devil.


10,537 posted on 05/04/2007 12:01:43 PM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: windchime

“That’s what VA says and then she extends desires to influence over DL’s financial affairs.

The DNA determination had been made when Rose made her comment and permanent custody of DL is still in a state of limbo. I’m just glad she’s away from HKS . . . for now.”

I agree...but separate the two issues and, putting LB completely aside for a minute, consider only Virgie vs. HKS....

She filed and began fighting for custody, apparently immediately following Daniel’s death, and continued to do so for as long as there was a chance HKS could get DL, even though she says all along she didn’t really want to raise DL, she would if she had to, but she just wanted to be the grandma, she only wanted visitation.

She’s also fighting for influence over DL’s financial affairs, as long as their is a chance HKS remains involved in any way.

And, in my opinion, if there is still a standing motion by Virgie requesting any type of custody of the baby, it is ONLY because custody has not yet been given to LB and HKS still remains with custody/standing. And, if there is still a standing motion by Virgie requesting any type of custody over the estate, it is ONLY because she’s concerned how much involvement HKS will have in controlling the estate.

As long as there is a chance in Heck that HKS can have a ‘custodial’ relationship with DL or with ANS estate...Virgie is not going to back down. That’s how I see it, because that’s exactly what I would have done and be doing.


10,538 posted on 05/04/2007 12:12:21 PM PDT by Kimberly GG (DUNCAN HUNTER '08.....lframerica.com.....MARCH TO TAKE BACK AMERICA)
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To: nynjanais
thanks ny !

you're right, the talking heads haven't been addressing this enough. If an unmarried deceased child, is, in fact, a basis to give their parent, the extra 'ooomph', legally stepping-into-place of their deceased child for visitation, that may be good information for a lot of grandparents around the country who've lost their children and don't know that they could possibly get visitation of their grandchildren.

10,539 posted on 05/04/2007 12:17:14 PM PDT by blueplum ([IC - ICE -(ice bath)])
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To: sodpoodle

Well, I kinda got that she was raging mad about thinking her mother was accusing both/either her or HKS of their deaths, but why wouldn’t she know WHO her mom was blaming? Twice she said her mother was blaming either her OR HKS...sounds like a spoon fed interpretation....but the phrase “bring it on, mommy” is, to me, a direct challenge to her mother. She was challenging her over something. What? It must be, as Virgie’s attorney stated, Virgie filed for custody and THEN Anna died.

“.....and she definitely didn’t know my son. I saw how evil she was, how evil she looked. So bring it on mom, mommy dearest, bring it on.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJlpko9emyY


10,540 posted on 05/04/2007 12:25:25 PM PDT by Kimberly GG (DUNCAN HUNTER '08.....lframerica.com.....MARCH TO TAKE BACK AMERICA)
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To: windchime
thanks, wind - i didn't know he was on the witness list and don't understand why Seidlin conducted his 'mini-inquest' instead of simply ruling on the body. Opri's motion was to just get DNA, not determine body custody.

I'm not sure what to think about Moe - somewhere back on thread two we were discussing whether he was first toe'ing the HK script to try to protect his wife from HK's setup - the 'we're all just here as friends' one. Then he modified his story and dropped off the radar.

I'm extremely interested in his book, to see if it's more flip-flop or if it burns HK too? - is it just One-Moe-Bedtime-Story??

10,541 posted on 05/04/2007 12:33:46 PM PDT by blueplum ([IC - ICE -(ice bath)])
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To: windchime
“Had it been between Virgie and HK, Virgie would have been given the body of her single daughter, and buried Anna in Texas within 4 days.”

I have no clue how you figure that. ‘Judge Hollywood’ said to HKS, ‘you came knocking on my door in the middle of the night’

True, HK was pounding on Seidlin's door (HE chose him, intentionally), to prevent Virgie Arthur from claiming her daughter's body.

Going by my own personal experience, when my unmarried brother died, his "live-in" had no legal weight to claim his body over my parents' or another direct relative over 18.

Since this is, my experience, and Virgie's relationship to Anna was the same as my parents to my deceased brother, then Virgie 'Should have been' given immediate legal right to the body over HK (the "live-in").

HK quickly claimed to Seidlin that the 'committment ceremony' (and phantom engagement and wedding plans) gave Him rights that superceded Virgie Arthurs' rights. (another premeditated move by HK) And off to the races they went.

Then Opri jumped in with a 20-day hold on the body for DNA, so I guess Seidlin decided to put all that time to good use.

JMO

10,542 posted on 05/04/2007 12:50:20 PM PDT by blueplum ([IC - ICE -(ice bath)])
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Comment #10,543 Removed by Moderator

To: Jane Austen; All

I totally agree. Virgie is the scapegoat, the role HKS set up for her. While this criminal, Howard, gets away with murder of all sorts, including murder of a person’s name and reputation.

I think that members of the public who are swayed by his portrayal of her must be living some amazing fantasy because the FACTS speak for themselves and they all point to his complicity in the deaths of Daniel and ANS. But hey, why argue FACTS when it’s so easy to get hysterical and vent your venom on the most vulnerable person (and least photogenic) out there- the woman who lost her child and grandchild. Makes me wonder how many people hate their mothers or something. Virgie is a scapegoat. Period.

Man, this thread began deteriorating when the Virgie bashers came on board with such incredibly fallacious reasoning. There is SO MUCH wrong with HKS’s behaviour, and so many FACTS that point to him as a money hungry, callous psychopath, that anything Virgie does or did do pales in comparison.

Damn, there’s just something so wrong and inhuman about picking on (and with such single minded venom) the one person who has lost the most.

PS. Those lists are very, very helpful for keeping this thread on track. That’s why I love this thread and keep coming back. Kudos to those who put in so much hard work, and those who add to the knowledge base, whether it be law, social services, psychology, new facts, etc. Back to lurking.


10,544 posted on 05/04/2007 12:51:40 PM PDT by fluffytoo (I have known psychos, and you, sir, are a psycho.)
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To: fluffytoo

“”””Damn, there’s just something so wrong and inhuman about picking on (and with such single minded venom) the one person who has lost the most.”””

Amen!

missing your wisdom - huury back;)


10,545 posted on 05/04/2007 12:54:46 PM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: Kimberly GG; All
In the meantime....not hide nor hair of Stearn...

There has been speculation on this board that maybe he got off Larry's plane in Florida. So, my question is, would he be vulnerable to something legal as soon as he steps on US soil? That would certainly explain why he would keep a low profile (aka, "sneaking around").

10,546 posted on 05/04/2007 12:58:08 PM PDT by fluffytoo (I have known psychos, and you, sir, are a psycho.)
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Comment #10,547 Removed by Moderator

Comment #10,548 Removed by Moderator

Comment #10,549 Removed by Moderator

To: gopheraj
You went to Vegas and still have money to pay bills. I - am - amazed!!LOLL

Not ALL the bills!

10,550 posted on 05/04/2007 1:09:46 PM PDT by uncitizen (Damn Comcast!)
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