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Archaeological sensation in Oestfold [ Inca remains from 11th c Norway? ]
Norway Post ^ | Tuesday, June 26, 2007 | Rolleiv Solholm (NRK)

Posted on 06/26/2007 11:34:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

Norwegian arhaeologists are puzzled by a find which indicates an Inca Indian died and was buried in the Oestfold city of Sarpsborg 1000 years ago. The remains of two elderly men and a baby were discovered during work in a garden, and one of the skulls indicates that the man was an Inca Indian. There is a genetic flaw in the neck, which is believed to be limited to the Incas in Peru, says archaeologist Mona Beate Buckholm. The Norway Post suggests that maybe the Vikings travelled even more widely than hitherto believed? Why could not the Viking settlers in New Foundland have strayed further down the coast on one of their fishing trips? Meanwhile, more digging will be made in Sarpsborg, in an attempt to try to find an answer to the puzzle, NRK reports.

(Excerpt) Read more at norwaypost.no ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: 1492; ageofsail; christophercolumbus; columbusday; genes; genetic; genetics; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; inca; inuitorinca; lapps; longboats; norway; saami; sami; sarpsborg; sweden; thevikings; viking; vikings
Archaeological sensation in Oestfold

1 posted on 06/26/2007 11:34:23 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...
[expletive deleted!]

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2 posted on 06/26/2007 11:34:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 27, 2007.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I demand genetic testing.
This is just way out there. Are we certain that this is not just an Inuit?


3 posted on 06/26/2007 11:54:01 PM PDT by rmlew (Build a wall, attrit the illegals, end the anchor babies, Americanize Immigrants)
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To: 1234; A knight without armor; AIM-54; Allan; american colleen; AndyPH; anguish; AzSteven; ...
Ping to the Swedish Ping List.
4 posted on 06/26/2007 11:58:40 PM PDT by rmlew (Build a wall, attrit the illegals, end the anchor babies, Americanize Immigrants)
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To: rmlew

DNA testing is all the rage, I’m just not inuit. [tiny rimshot]

The “genetic flaw in the neck” mentioned in the article was the basis for the claim. I have no idea what that is.

Blam’s DNA swab test thingee showed a haplotype more or less isolated and commonplace among the Lapps.


5 posted on 06/26/2007 11:59:01 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 27, 2007.)
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The Mystery of the Cocaine Mummies (transcript)
http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~anthro/webcourse/lost/coctrans.htm

since it’s a dead link, try this:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~anthro/webcourse/lost/coctrans.htm


6 posted on 06/27/2007 12:01:23 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 27, 2007.)
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To: SunkenCiv
The “genetic flaw in the neck” mentioned in the article was the basis for the claim. I have no idea what that is.
I need much more information.

Blam’s DNA swab test thingee showed a haplotype more or less isolated and commonplace among the Lapps.
Sami, or Saami. They hate being called Lapps.

7 posted on 06/27/2007 12:01:39 AM PDT by rmlew (Build a wall, attrit the illegals, end the anchor babies, Americanize Immigrants)
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To: SunkenCiv
Viking Age Inca Indian Found in Norwegian Burial Ground?
http://www.bitsofnews.com/content/view/5773/44/
turned out to be the remains of two older men and an infant. And it was the skull of one of the men that puzzled the forensic archaeologists. "A particular bone at the back of the head was not fused. This is an inherited trait found almost exclusively among the Incas of Peru," Buckholm added. To this day, no other example of this trait has been found in Norway. "While it is tempting to speculate, seeing as St. Nicolas is the patron saint of sailors, it's hard to imagine a Peruvian making his way here at the time. This is quite puzzling."
That's a stretch. Of course, not as good as other ruminations. For instance in another story, where they find a buried woman from the Oseborg site to have DNA originating from the Caucuses, Iran or Anatolia, the author starts talking about ancient migrations.
http://www.bitsofnews.com/content/view/5471/42/

The fact that the Vikings traded with the Byzantines, Khazars, Georgians, and the Baghdad Caliphate is unmentioned, even though this is a much more likely source.

8 posted on 06/27/2007 12:17:02 AM PDT by rmlew (Build a wall, attrit the illegals, end the anchor babies, Americanize Immigrants)
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To: SunkenCiv

*skepictal*


9 posted on 06/27/2007 1:12:46 AM PDT by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President! www.dndorks.com)
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To: SunkenCiv

Interesting, although there’s reason to be skeptical.

Thanks for posting.


10 posted on 06/27/2007 2:06:38 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: SunkenCiv; rmlew; muawiyah; Coyoteman
"Blam’s DNA swab test thingee showed a haplotype more or less isolated and commonplace among the Lapps."

I don't know of any such 'neck' marker amoungst the Sa'ami. The DNA (probably from a tooth) could quickly solve the riddle. The Sa'ami are mainly haplogroup U5 and 'V' while the Inca are more likely to be haplogroup A, B ,C.

Could that explain this mystery?

Kuelap - The Machu Picchu Of Northern Peru (Chachapoyas - White, blonde haired people)

11 posted on 06/27/2007 5:36:05 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border then, Introduce an Illegal Immigrant Deportation Bill)
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To: rmlew
A link to the url you provided:

Viking Noble Woman from Black Sea Immigrant Family

12 posted on 06/27/2007 5:39:57 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border then, Introduce an Illegal Immigrant Deportation Bill)
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To: SunkenCiv; Coyoteman
FYI:

I just completed reading the book "A New Human" by Mike Morwood about the 'Hobbits' on the Indonesian island of Flores. It looks like all the noise about the 'Hobbits' having a disease is just BS...a lot of egos involved. I'm particularly disappointed with the 'senior' archaeologist Jacob and Australian Alan Thorne in this whole bruhaha.

Anyway, Morwood thinks the Hobbits and Homo-Erectus have a common anscestor and probably both split from Homo-Habilis. Human artifacts on Flores date to at least 840,000 years ago and the Hobbits lived there at least continuously for 80,000 years, up until about 12,000 years ago.

Morwood also says that the Hobbits share a lot of features with these 1.8 million year old people found in the Republic Of Georgia: Stranger In A New Land (Archaeology)

Morwood also speculates that some of the Asian Homo-Habilis may have 'reverse-migrated' back to Africa at some point in the very distant past arriving there with new habits and capabilities not seen before in Africa. (and then re-emerging later from Africa as Modern Humans)

The plot thickens.

13 posted on 06/27/2007 6:15:11 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border then, Introduce an Illegal Immigrant Deportation Bill)
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To: SunkenCiv
Christopher Columbus reported that he saw East Asian type people dead in a boat that'd come up around Iceland.

Yes, Columbus regularly went to Iceland to pick up shipments of wool to take to Turkey to be woven into rugs.

He was one of Rene d'Anjou's employees. This is the same Rene who was Jeanne d'Arc's political sponsor.

Rene also rented out some of his military type vessels to various municipalities and countries to use in wars against the very same Turks with whom he was trading.

It's entirely possible that Inca could have set sail from their outposts on the Northest cost of what is now Columbia and made it all the way to Iceland with a fresh shipment of cocaine.

This continues to be a regular practice.

I'd check their body cells for signs of cocaine.

14 posted on 06/27/2007 6:27:31 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: rmlew

BTW, Inuit would probably have had a harder time getting to that part of Norway than the Inca. However, in the Little Ice Age (which occurred several centuries later) Inuit did show up in London.


15 posted on 06/27/2007 6:30:02 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: rmlew

In Finland they actually use the term Lapps. And, it’s OK to use the term in English. They just don’t like the Norse calling them that.


16 posted on 06/27/2007 6:31:03 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: blam
I don't know of any such 'neck' marker amoungst the Sa'ami.
Sorry, it wasn't my intention to say so.
17 posted on 06/27/2007 7:20:34 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 27, 2007.)
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To: rmlew
turned out to be the remains of two older men and an infant. And it was the skull of one of the men that puzzled the forensic archaeologists. "A particular bone at the back of the head was not fused. This is an inherited trait found almost exclusively among the Incas of Peru," Buckholm added. To this day, no other example of this trait has been found in Norway. "

I think from this description they are referring to what is called the Inca bone (an interparietal bone). It is caused when a horozontal suture connects the lambdoidal sutures making an extra triangular bone out of the top of the occipital bone.

The distribution is worldwide, although highest in Peru:

Abstract: The variation in frequency of the Inca bone was examined in major human populations around the world. The New World populations have generally high frequencies of the Inca bone, whereas lower frequencies occur in northeast Asians and Australians. Tibetan/Nepalese and Assam/Sikkim populations in northeast India have more Inca bones than do neighbouring populations. Among modern populations originally derived from eastern Asian population stock, the frequencies are highest in some of the marginal isolated groups. In Central and West Asia as well as in Europe, frequency of the Inca bone is relatively low. The incidence of the complete Inca bone is, moreover, very low in the western hemisphere of the Old World except for Subsaharan Africa. Subsaharan Africans show as a whole a second peak in the occurrence of the Inca bone. Geographical and ethnographical patterns of the frequency variation of the Inca bone found in this study indicate that the possible genetic background for the occurrence of this bone cannot be completely excluded. Relatively high frequencies of the Inca bone in Subsaharan Africans indicate that this trait is not a uniquely eastern Asian regional character.

Os incae: variation in frequency in major human population groups, by Tsunehiko Hanihara and Hajime Ishida, Journal of Anatomy, Vol. 198(Pt 2): 137–152. Source

Sounds like this is not necessarily a Peruvian mummy in Norway.

18 posted on 06/27/2007 7:23:11 AM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: rmlew
Are we certain that this is not just an Inuit?

What does your Inuition tell you?

BTW, the area in this story is not far from the Norwegian-Swedish border along the coast, which is where my family, the Henrikssons, are from (just on the Swedish side).

19 posted on 06/27/2007 8:07:32 AM PDT by Charles Henrickson (On vacation in Fish Creek, Wisconsin, and--like franksolich--mellow, sitting back, relaxing)
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To: SunkenCiv

Norway blockaded all of Europe from travel to America from 1300 until Columbus. England managed some trips to the fishing waters off Newfoundland and turkey and corn runs to what became New England anyway by watching for Norwegian Navy ships and setting out when the horizon was clear.


20 posted on 06/27/2007 8:11:55 AM PDT by RightWhale (It's Brecht's donkey, not mine)
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To: muawiyah
"It's entirely possible that Inca could have set sail from their outposts on the Northest cost of what is now Columbia and made it all the way to Iceland with a fresh shipment of cocaine."

To trade with the Egyptian royals for more slaves. (ahem)

21 posted on 06/27/2007 10:20:41 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border then, Introduce an Illegal Immigrant Deportation Bill)
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To: Coyoteman
“Tibetan/Nepalese and Assam/Sikkim populations in northeast India have more Inca bones than do neighboring populations”

And how much more likely someone from Central Asia was engaged in trading along the silk road and wound up in Kiev and followed the trading route further to Scandinavia.

22 posted on 06/27/2007 11:27:03 AM PDT by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: Pete from Shawnee Mission
And how much more likely someone from Central Asia was engaged in trading along the silk road and wound up in Kiev and followed the trading route further to Scandinavia.

I think rather that the Inca bones are present in most populations, even if in very small numbers. DNA testing would be the way to tell for sure though.

23 posted on 06/27/2007 12:22:08 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: muawiyah
The American Discovery Of Europe

Wow, that's an inflammatory title, and we must be very wary here. Who could be promoting such an idea? The perpetrator is J. Forbes, a professor of Native American Studies at the University of California-Davis. The title above is, in fact, the title of Forbes' forthcoming book. Forbes recently gave a talk on his thesis in Berkeley, and the evidence below is based on a newspaper account of his talk. The account began with:

"It is a common perception, and one which is taught in most history classes, that the Europeans 'discovered' America. Some scholars, however, postulate that it may be quite the opposite: Native Americans went across the Atlantic and 'found' their European counterparts first." Now for the claimed evidence:

* Carribean people were the Polynesians of the Americas. Excellent mariners, they built sophisticated sailing vessels 80-feet long, carrying up to 80 people. With the favorable winds and currents, they had the capabilities of reaching Europe.

* There are tales of "redmen" arriving on the west coast of Portugal during the Middle Ages.

* Columbus himself, during a visit to Ireland, noted the presence of people resembling North Americans.

* Columbus also made notes on Indians in canoes wrecked off the coast of Germany in 1410.

* Inuits (Eskimos) are said to have landed in the Orkneys, off Scotland. Old Inuit harpoon heads have been dug up in Ireland and Scotland.

(Kluepfel, Brian; "Native Americans May Have Found Europe, Says Scholar," Berkeley Voice, January 28, 1993. Cr. P.F. Young.
Comment. Obviously, stronger evidence will be required to convince most archeologists. And what about all the purported claims for early contacts with the Americas by Celts, Phonecians, Hebrews, Romans, Africans, etc,?

From Science Frontiers #87, MAY-JUN 1993. © 1993-2000 William R. Corliss

24 posted on 06/27/2007 1:30:20 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border then, Introduce an Illegal Immigrant Deportation Bill)
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To: BGHater; blam; Charles Henrickson; Coyoteman; muawiyah; Pete from Shawnee Mission; RightWhale; ...

BGHater’s got another such topic (newer) which has photos of the finds.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1857603/posts?page=27#27


25 posted on 06/28/2007 7:14:34 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 27, 2007.)
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To: rmlew

Please add me to the Swedish ping list. Thank you.


26 posted on 06/28/2007 11:35:31 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: blam

Thanks for posting.

I’ve never heard about these theories before.

In order to gain support for his theory, Professor Forbes should perhaps consider sailing from America to Europe in a raft or some other sort of primitive watercraft.

In fact, a similar expedition, carried out for similar reasons, has already been undertaken. I’m thinking of Norwegian explorer and writer Thor Heyerdahl and his successful 1947 Kon-Tiki expedition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki

http://www.kon-tiki.no/Ny/Dok_eng/e_start.html?FUIComponentClass=%5Btype+Function%5D&FPushButtonClass=%5Btype+Function%5D


27 posted on 06/28/2007 4:11:57 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

“successful 1947 Kon-Tiki expedition”

- I should have mentioned in my former post that Heyerdahl also made several other successful journeys with other rafts/ships.


28 posted on 06/28/2007 4:16:30 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: SunkenCiv

There’s a problem with the terminology here. The Inca did not exist either as a tribe or an empire 1000 years ago. Ostensibly they got this trait from their predecessors, but they weren’t Inca.


29 posted on 06/29/2007 3:14:21 PM PDT by GOPlibertarian
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30 posted on 07/09/2008 11:05:35 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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Vikings In South America?
Science Frontiers | Science Frontiers #62, Mar-Apr 1989 | William R. Corliss
Posted on 09/15/2006 2:11:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1702307/posts


31 posted on 07/09/2008 11:07:34 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

Note: this topic is from Tuesday, June 26, 2007. A re-ping.

32 posted on 08/25/2013 7:37:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's no coincidence that some "conservatives" echo the hard left.)
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To: SunkenCiv
Inca - interparietal bones in neurocranium of human skulls in central India

Figure 1: Photograph showing large Inca ossicles. A, B: Inca ossicles, 1: Interparietal suture, 2: Parietooccipital suture, 3: Parietal bone, 4: Occipital bone, 5: Mastoid process

Incan bones found in Østfold[Norway] Aftenposten ^ | 26 June 2007 | Aftenposten


33 posted on 08/25/2013 11:18:21 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: SunkenCiv

At that date the dead guy would not be an Inca. He might be from an ancestor of the Incans, however.


34 posted on 08/26/2013 5:18:12 AM PDT by ThanhPhero (Khách sang La Vang hanh huong tham vieng Maria)
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To: muawiyah; SunkenCiv

“It’s entirely possible that Inca could have set sail from their outposts on the Northest cost of what is now Columbia and made it all the way to Iceland with a fresh shipment of cocaine.

This continues to be a regular practice.”

Cali cartel ping.


35 posted on 08/26/2013 9:25:25 AM PDT by wildbill
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To: SunkenCiv

Bookmark for later rumination....


36 posted on 08/26/2013 2:09:20 PM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert (FUBO, and the useful idiots you rode in on!)
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