Skip to comments.300 ~ Persian Recut - The Truth!
Posted on 02/02/2008 6:25:06 PM PST by freedom44
The Spartans worshipped many Gods. The Persians only one - Ahura Mazda. Zoroastranism a faith which led to Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
The Spartans despised democracy. They fought for generations against the Athenians because of their devout hatred towards the concept. The Persians allowed democratic reign, freedom for Satrips and anyone within the empire.
Cyrus the Great the founder of the Persian Empire is mentioned 23 times in the Bible and is the only figure dubbed the 'anointed'
Cyrus is mentioned some 23 times in the literature of the Old Testament. Isaiah refers to Cyrus as Jehovahs shepherd, the Lords anointed, who was providentially appointed to facilitate the divine plan. God would lead this monarch to subdue nations and open doors (an allusion to the Jews release from Babylonian captivity). He would make rough places smooth, i.e., accommodate the Hebrews return to their Palestinean homeland. He would ultimately be responsible for the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the reconstruction of the temple.
The Spartans never embraced human rights or woman rights. Persians had generals of all races, ethnicities, cultures, religious backgrounds, sexes and nationalities.
The Persians saved tons of oppressed minorities including the Jews from oppression. While the Spartans hated the Jews and anyone else as a meaning of life. Including incest, homosexuality, barbarism.
Persians are the first (Iran literally translates to Land of the Aryans) Indo-European race the Spartans are not.
We have too many ignorant fools preaching ignorance.
WTF is this????
Hey, Persians: If you show up with 2.7 MILLION troops and the intent to exterminate a civilization and LOSE, don’t expect to be remembered fondly.
Actually the Persians eventually won that war.
LOL! Read a Bible and have some respect loser.
Greeks lost. Read a book too.
Didn’t Cyrus free Jews from Babylon?
Cyrus the Great (580-529 BC) (known as Kourosh in Persian; Kouros in Greek; Kores in Hebrew) was the first Achaemenian Emperor and founder of Iran, who issued a decree on his aims and policies, later hailed as his charter of the rights of nations.
Inscribed on a clay cylinder, this is known to be the first declaration of Human Rights, and is now kept at the British Museum. A replica of this is also at the United Nations in New York. Part of his charter states:
“I am Cyrus. King of the world. When I entered Babylon... I did not allow anyone to terrorize the land... I kept in view the needs of people and all its sanctuaries to promote their well-being... I put an end to their misfortune. The Great God has delivered all the lands into my hand; the lands that I have made to dwell in a peaceful habitation.... . .When my soldiers in great numbers peacefully entered Babylon... I did not allow anyone to terrorize the people... I kept in view the needs of people and all its sanctuaries to promote their well-being... Freed all the slaves... I put an end to their misfortune and slavery (referring to the Jews and other religious minorities). The Great God has delivered all the lands into my hand; the lands that I have made to dwell in a peaceful habitation... “
Darn. Just when you think you know whom to hate.
He was an interesting mixture of conqueror and statesman at a time when brutality reigned supreme.
Great article. The Spartans were wild savages, the Persians in general were not, at least not to that degree. They wouldn’t even be Muslim had the Arabs not conquered them.
Although, it’s kind of ironic that Zoroastranism, invented by the Iranians, should give rise to Islam, which was forced on Iran and holds it captive today.
Persians will rise again. Without Islam.
I seem to recall the Persians getting kicked out of Greece not once but twice.
Yes, the Persians won at Thermopylae, which was the second major Persian invasion; wherein Xerxes brought over his 2.7 million men. But that was a battle, not the war.
The simultaneous naval battle at Artemisium was a stalemate. Xerxes went on to sack the deserted city of Athens; the inhabitants of which had fled to Salamis. The ensuing naval battle at Salamis was a shattering defeat for the Persians; Xerxes began retreating. What was left of the Persian army was finally defeated in detail at Plataea.
Sounds like a Persian loss to me. What war did the Persians actually win against the Greeks, again?
Perhaps you should read a few. Persia has a habit of winning battles and losing wars.
After getting their butt kicked at Salamis and Plataea, the Persians would never again be a serious threat to most of the Greek city-states. In time, the Persian Empire would be defeated by a gay Macedonian-Greek prince, his tutor, and a handful of mercenaries.
Why align yourself with people who hated monotheism and worshiped multiple Gods, were homosexuals, rapists, murderers, who hated democracy, freedom, human rights and treated women like dirt?
If you do you are a Spartan.
This is false.
Cyrus issued the decree of liberation to the Jews, concerning which Daniel had prayed and prophesied. The edict of Cyrus for the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem marked a great epoch in the history of the Jewish people. However, some of the non-Jewish peoples of Samaria hired counselors to frustrate the Jews from completing the rebuilding throughout the reign of Cyrus, Xerxes (’Ahasuerus’), and Artaxerxes, until the reign of Darius. The work recommenced under the exhortations of the prophets, and when the authorities asked the Jews what right they had to build a temple, they referred to the decree of Cyrus. Darius, who was then reigning, caused a search for this alleged decree to be made, and it was found in the archives at Ecbatana, whereupon Darius reaffirmed the decree and the work proceeded to its triumphant close.
A chronicle drawn up just after the conquest of Babylonia by Cyrus, gives the history of the reign of Nabonidus (’Nabuna’id’), the last king of Babylon, and of the fall of the Babylonian empire. In 538 BC there was a revolt in Southern Babylonia, while the army of Cyrus entered the country from the north. In June the Babylonian army was completely defeated at Opis, and immediately afterwards Sippara opened its gates to the conqueror. Gobryas (Ugbaru), the governor of Kurdistan, was then sent to Babylon, which surrendered “without fighting,” and the daily services in the temples continued without a break. In October, Cyrus himself arrived, and proclaimed a general amnesty, which was communicated by Gobryas to “all the province of Babylon,” of which he had been made governor. Meanwhile, Nabonidus, who had concealed himself, was captured, but treated honourably; and when his wife died, Cambyses II, the son of Cyrus, conducted the funeral. Cyrus now assumed the title of “king of Babylon,” claimed to be the descendant of the ancient kings, and made rich offerings to the temples. At the same time he allowed the foreign populations who had been deported to Babylonia to return to their old homes, carrying with them the images of their gods. Among these populations were the Jews, who, as they had no images, took with them the sacred vessels of the temple.
Speculation abounds to the reasoning for Cyrus’ release of the Jews from Babylon. One argument being that Cyrus was a follower of Zoroaster, the monotheistic prophet: Zoroastrianism played a dominant religious role in Persia throughout its history until the Islamic conquest. As such, he would feel a kindred spirit with the monotheistic Jews. Another possibility is the magnanimous respect he is ascribed to have shown to the diverse beliefs and customs of the peoples within his extended kingdom. As one example, upon the conquest of Babylon itself, it’s recorded that he paid homage at the temple of the Babylonian god Marduk - thereby gaining the support of the Babylonian people and minimizing further bloodshed. While Jewish tradition, as described previously in Ezra1:1-8, indicates “the Lord inspired King Cyrus of Persia to issue this proclamation”, in the he Cyrus Cylinder pays homage to Marduk. This Babylonian document has been interpreted as referring to the return the their homelands of several displaced cultural groups, one of which could have been the Jews:
From [Babylon] to Aur and (from) Susa, Agade, Enunna, Zamban, Me-Turnu, Der, as far as the region of Gutium, the sacred centers on the other side of the Tigris, whose sanctuaries had been abandoned for a long time, I returned the images of the gods, who had resided there [i.e., in Babylon], to their places and I let them dwell in eternal abodes. I gathered all their inhabitants and returned to them their dwellings. In addition, at the command of Marduk, the great lord, I settled in their habitations, in pleasing abodes, the gods of Sumer and Akkad, whom Nabonidus, to the anger of the lord of the gods, had brought into Babylon. (lines 30-33)
However, it has been argued that it must be referring to people associated to the image’s cult instead of deportees.
The terms used by the author of Isaiah are reminiscent of certain passages in the Cyrus Cylinder:
Who roused from the cast him that victory hails at every step? Who presents him with nations, subdues kings to him? His sword makes dust of them and his bow scatters them like straw. He pursues them and advances unhindered, his feet scarcely touching the road. Who is the author of this deed if not he who calls the generations from the beginning? I, Yahweh, who am the first and shall be with the last. (Isaiah 41:2-4)
Then the alliance between Cyrus and Yahweh is made explicit:
Thus says Yahweh to his anointed, to Cyrus, whom he has taken by his right hand to subdue nations before him and strip the loins of kings, to force gateways before him that their gates be closed no more: I will go before you levelling the heights. I will shatter the bronze gateways, smash the iron bars. I will give you the hidden treasures, the secret hoards, that you may know that I am Yahweh. (Isaiah 45:1-3)
The first? no.
Oh, yeah - forgot to mention that Xerxes’ father Darius got his butt kicked by the Greeks, too. Darius’ attempt to conquer the Peloponnese ended rather abruptly at Marathon in 490BC.
Perhaps you’ve heard of it?
Um, actually, Spartans treated Spartan women *very* well. Only Spartan women could hold property, for example. In addition, they were considered equals or near equals to the men as they ran the place while all the men were off at war. In fact, Spartan women recieved training in martial arts and the use of weapons.
We really don’t know all that much about the Spartans; they did not believe in written records, What we do know is shown mostly through the distorted lenses of those that wrote about the Spartans. Very little original material survives.
Who are the true Indo-Europeans Dark skinned Greek piece?
Those were different times. The Persians weren’t saints either.
The Spartans did what they had to do to survive, and many peoples around them didn’t. Eventually they succumbed as well.
It is well to be a wolf when living in a world full of wolves.
Ethnically, I’m not from either the Med or the Middle East.
*My* people came along and conquered *yours*, Persian, a lot later than that gay Greek prince did. We burned down most of your cities, killed most of your people, and seized all of your riches. All because you *Persians* couldn’t keep from cutting off the head of our ambassador.
Perhaps you’ve heard of us. We’re called Mongols.
Unfortunately, there will be RETARDS on this thread who will start mouthing off about A-rabs (Iranians are PERSIANS) and how this is "Islamonazi" propaganda.
BTW: Grease, er, Greece is appropriately named.
LONG LIVE CYRUS THE GREAT!!!
Islam holds many nations captive. How many of the world’s billion muslims have a choice of religion more than just a choice between being a muslim or being dead or a second class citizen?
Yes i see the Mongol in you.
Pride and heritage:
The cylinder of Cyrus the Great was discovered in 1878 by the Assyrian archaeologist Hormuz Rassam in his excavations at the site of Babylon. It is barrel-shaped, around 23cm long and 11cm wide, and is inscribed in Akkadian cuneiform. Now housed in the British Museum, it includes a detailed account by Cyrus of his conquest of Babylon in 539BCE and his subsequent humane treatment of his conquered subjects. It has been hailed as the worlds first declaration of human rights.
Cyrus TG Cylinder 2500 Years Stamp.JPG (35357 bytes)
Cyrus Cylinder depicted on a postage stamps issued on 12 October 1971 to celebrate the 2,500-year anniversary of the Imperial Regime in Iran
(Click to enlarge)
2500_Year_symbol.jpg (72507 bytes)
Cyrus Cylinder chosen as the symbol of 2,500-year anniversary of the Imperial Regime in Iran (Click to enlarge)
The (incomplete) inscription on the cylinder starts by describing the criminal deeds of the Babylonian king Nabonidus (lines 4-8); as well as how Marduk, the Babylonian god, had looked for a new king and chosen Cyrus (lines 9-19). It continues with the famous:
I am Cyrus, king of the world, the great king, the powerful king, king of Babylon, king of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four quarters of the world (line 20)
After a description of Cyrus ancestry and of royal protocol (lines 21-22), it goes on to explain how Cyrus established peace and abolished forced labour (lines 22-25):
The people of Babylon . . . the shameful yoke was removed from them (line 25)
The inscription continues by detailing reparative building activities in Babylon as well as asking for prayers for Cyrus (lines 25-28). It makes specific reference to the Jews, who have been brought to Babylon and who Cyrus supported in leaving for their homeland.
Demonstrating his religious tolerance, Cyrus restored the local cults by allowing the gods to return to their shrines:
. . the gods, who resided in them, I brought back to their places, and caused them to dwell in a residence for all time.
And the gods of Sumer and Akkad whom Nabonidus, to the anger of the lord of the gods, had brought into Babylon by the command of Marduk, the great lord, I caused them to take up their dwelling in residences that gladdened the heart (lines 32-36)
The cylinder describes the Great King not as a conqueror, but as a liberator and the legitimate successor to the crown of Mesopotamia. Cyrus seems to have had no idea of forcing his new subjects into a single Persian identity, and had the wisdom to leave intact the functioning institutions of each kingdom he attached to the Imperial Crown.
Cyrus officially crowned himself King of Babylon and King of the Land on the first day of spring 538BCE. After the coronation, which was in Marduk Temple, Cyrus apparently publicly declaimed the words found on the cylinder.
Inscription corroborates many of the details in Ezra 1:1-5 describing Cyrus supporting the Jews in returning to Judea from captivity to rebuild the Temple in 537BCE. Isaiah also backs up the idea of Cyrus as a benign and chosen ruler:
Thus saith the Lord to the anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden . . . he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the Lord of hosts Isaiah 45: 1-13
Yes. By the way, did you know that the MONGOLS had the first quasi-democracy? That our leaders were chosen by election and not by some “god” or “divine right?”
Did you know that in the Mongol empire a naked woman bearing a bag of gold could walk the entire length and width of the empire at its height without fear of being molested? Could never say that about the Persian “Empire.”
Did you know that the Mongol Empire specifically promoted trade, science, research, and education? And that Ghengis Khan preferred trade to combat?
Did you know that in the Mongol Empire, governors were forbidden to abuse the governed on pain of death? And that there was a system of laws and trials for the accused?
Did you know that in the Mongol Empire, freedom of religion was not only tolerated but that those who attempted to oppress others’ religions were severely punished?
I dare say *my* empire was a lot more “fair” and “Western” than your vaguely imagined glories. You Persians have a LOT to answer for - especially in how you poisoned European chroniclers’ history of us.
Moguls had nothing to offer but hatred and barbarism my friend.
Funny you denounce the Persians.
It is when the reason we did it is because the Persians cut off the head of our ambassador (who was one of Ghenghis’ best friends) and sent it back to us in a bag. The Persians don’t generally tell people that that is why the Mongols went to war - because it makes their “civilization” look like the primitive, brutal, and senseless mess it really is.
We *tried* trading with them, talking to them... all we got was suspicion, derision, and what they thought was violence with impunity.
They’re not laughing at our “ineffective Khan” any more.
Oh right, like the Mongols were a civilized humane society. The Persians had their faults, but there was no need for the Mongols to go in and kill everyone.
I denounce the Persians because I *know* your culture well, Persian.
In fact, I have one of your books, looted about 500-some-odd years ago from the ruins of one of your capitals. My many-times-great-grandfather was very upset about your people cutting the head off of his second cousin, the ambassador.
Why bring his sexuality into it? Why not refer to Alexander as one of the greatest commanders who ever lived, a military genius who inspired his troops to push farther and harder to achieve military gains that had never before been achieved.
Hey, we gave them a chance to surrender, every time we came to a city. Most of the time they said no. If they said yes, they actually got to live under a system that was much more free than their Persian overlords’ had been - with no penalty. That’s right - if you surrendered, you were not molested. (Horde members that molested those who surrendered were put to death.)
I’m not pretending that we were the civilized light in the world at the time, but Western history has a very broken view of the Mongols.
By the way, if you had command of the largest and best army on earth, and someone sent you the head of your best friend back in a bag along with a note that read “Whatcha going to do about it?”, what would you do?
Most people would go exact revenge.
Because I’m mocking him and his “great” empire? :D
Er, the person I’m mocking is freedom44, not Alexander. Thought I’d clear that up.
Ever occur to you that maybe they didn’t want to surrender? And if anyone should get the punishment for cutting off the guy’s head it should be the guy who did it. There’s no need to bring in your entire army and slaughter innocent civilians.
It was the local Persian caliph that did it, with the specific endorsement of *his* Caliph.
What’s the only way to get to the leader of an empire?
By the way, it’s nothing that the Persians themselves didn’t do. See 2nd Naxos.
Well, great, kill the caliph. But he’s hiding in a city and he keeps sending his army out to protect him.
What do *you* think is going to happen? :P
Well then fight the army. Just not innocent civilians. Can we agree on that?
The rise of the Persian empire was way after the time of Abraham.....where do people dig up this garbage.
What you’re forgetting is that in that era, there was no such thing as “innocent civilians” in a city siege. All the men would be pressed into the defense of the city; once the opposing forces got inside, all the women would also attack.
“Innocent civilians” is an invention of the post-Renaissance era.
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