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To: boogerbear
But of course the fact that these guys are constantly running their asses off also indicates that while there might be more doctors than just them there’s not a lot and clearly not enough.

never said otherwise

and more importantly for having the spare man hours to do things like fully dissect a Cylon corpse.

Now you're the one that's totally making assumptions. We've never been shown what Cottle does 99% of the time. For all you know he's been dissecting a Cylon corpse in his spare time. How do you know he doesn't?

“Basic stuff” isn’t good enough.

'Good enough' for what? You claimed there were only 3 doctors, I infer there are probably more, at the very least by retasking people and training them in the basic stuff. You said that's not 'good enough'. Again: for what?

They need full service doctors and surgeons.

They 'need' lots of things but if the best they can do is train an ex-historian to take peoples' temperature and look in their ears and (etc etc) then I reckon they'd do it. You think they wouldn't? Because it's 'not good enough'? Better to just let people go untreated?

I suppose a “basic stuff” person might be good enough for Cylon dissection but they’d be busy doing the “basic stuff” so the real doctor can do real doctoring.

Or, so he could dissect the Cylon. Again, division of labor. The whole issue here was you claiming there's not enough manpower because there's only 3 doctors. I reckon there are more. If those 'more' are doing doctoring that could free up Cottle or another 'real doctor'.

Nobody in the fleet gets much in the way of down time, and that kind of dissection would be the kind of thing to do during otherwise down time.

Says who? Again, why wouldn't it be a priority, why wouldn't someone have been put on it fulltime till it was completed? How many freaking man-hours does it really take to do an extensive dissection anyway? "Heart, check." Put the heart in a jar. "Intestines, check". Put them in a jar. And so on. Your whole stance here that every single person in the fleet with any medical knowledge has been SO BUSY this entire time that there simply hasn't been time to dig into the Cylon corpse and see if he's got cuckoo clocks or gills in there really just doesn't pass the smell test.

Until the person can correctly diagnose a heart problem (or some other internal thing not treatable by anti-biotics) and prescribe medicine appropriately they aren’t a doctor.

More to the point, such a person would be an undertrained doctor - a doctor trainee - or something along those lines, and thus would have to refer to Cottle a lot. Yeah...and?

They’re at best an assistant, which can be handy, if you’ve spent any time in a hospital you know the assistants far out number the doctors, but the fleet needs doctors.

And? They're making do with the best they've got. Aren't they? Sheesh, I thought that was your whole point. Now I don't even know what you're trying to say. I'm trying to imagine this reply: "You want to help out with the medical care? Sorry, the fleet needs doctors and although you could probably help out with a lot of stuff, you couldn't diagnose arrhythmia. So, go do something else, like be a reporter or PR person for one of the 'politicians'. We can never get enough of those."

Huh?

What of it?! There’s 50,000 humans left in the WHOLE universe, they’ve already established that they don’t have enough to create a proper breeding population unless they get really lucky and screw a LOT. Every one they lose is another step towards the end of all humanity. Letting people die because your “doctors” aren’t really doctors is simply not acceptable.

If you leave someone UNTREATED because you don't have enough doctors and the people willing/available to work on the task aren't 'real doctors', that's letting people die. I'm sure their larger medical corps is less than ideally-trained, but what's the alternative exactly?

Maybe the other defense lawyer did think of it, but it wouldn’t be the same coming from him. Some back of the house lawyer talking about all the nasty things they’ve done isn’t the same as one of the people who shot down the Olympic Carrier and jumped the fleet away from New Caprica (ie PARTICIPATED in the nasty things).

You missed my real point there which was that in anything resembling a real trial, there's no freaking way they'd let a guy's defense lawyer not only get called up to the stand but then speechify. The whole scene was laughable, cooked-up drama.

But as I said, I assume they are, in their copious spare time, teaching all the techs and nurses to be doctors. And they’re probably bringing new people in to backfill the nurse and tech positions. But it’s only been 3 years and they’re under extreme duress, not good conditions for extra training.

Nevertheless, they have to make do. And so I'm quite sure that (at least in a real situation resembling these events) there would be many people who have been essentially acting as 'field doctors' for at least 2.5 out of those 3 years. Thus, there would be more than 3 doctors. Which was my initial claim, and which you've conceded anyway.

Do you know what all those body parts look like when covered in blood and viscera? Really?

Not really. But so? Maybe Cylon biology is sufficiently different that it could be recognized on a CT. There are things I'd notice on a CT as being "not right". This wouldn't require dissection at all. Or at least, I could then point it out to Cottle - "look there, what the heck is that?" - so he'd have an idea where to cut. But oh yeah I forgot he doesn't have a single minute to spare to cut open the Cylon.

Anybody who doesn’t actually know on sight all nine isn’t going to be useful for determining what’s different about Cylons.

Again, unless Cylon biology is significantly different. Which I guess you're saying it isn't (based on what?). In which case, I reckon Cylons are just humans (which was my initial point).

Have you worked 12 to 16 hour days every day for the last 3 years WHILE fleeing for your life? Didn’t think so.

Oh I see so that's what makes the difference. 12 hour shifts while not fleeing for your life = time to do extra stuff. 12 hour shifts while fleeing for your life = no single minute can possibly be spent slicing into a dead body and poking around. Got it.

Dissecting the Cylon would definitely be a high priority, but not as high as living 1 more day, and for them living 1 more day is way past a full time job.

I can't even envision what you think you're saying here. What exactly is it that Cottle currently has to do vis-a-vis "living 1 more day" that occupies literally all of his time so that a little slice n dice is out of the question? Based on your description there's no way he has time to light his cigarette or engage in conversations with people. But HE DOES do those things. Miraculous.

168 posted on 06/29/2008 12:35:38 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: Dr. Frank fan

No actually you DIED say otherwise. Your entire position is based on otherwise.

Here’s the core problem, you’ve got a problem with how BSG gets from point A (the audience known differences between Cylons and humans) to point G (not having an easy biological test). The problem is the points B through F of your complaint are 100% of YOUR creation. Whether you call them assumptions or hypotheses or whatever the hell else you want is immaterial, the fact is you’ve built a path from A to G that goes through them having plenty of doctors with plenty of time to do plenty of testing on plenty of Cylon corpses and none of those things is supported by the actual story. In fact every damn one of them is DIRECTLY contradicted by the actual story. They don’t have plenty of doctors (refer to Cottle’s non apology during the story with the Sagitaron killer), they don’t have plenty of time (same speech), they haven’t gotten to do plenty of testing (the only results we know about are from between the initial Cylon attack and 33 which happened 6 days later), and they’ve frequently had one to zero Cylon corpses to work with.

The real story is they’re just too damn busy staying alive. And if you have a problem with that, well TFB. Life sucks, get a helmet.


169 posted on 06/29/2008 5:51:57 PM PDT by boogerbear
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