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How to download music?
me ^ | 6/22/08 | umgud

Posted on 06/22/2008 12:03:27 PM PDT by umgud

Old school Freeper needs tech help in downloading music. I've searched the net and can't find my answers.


TOPICS: Computers/Internet; Music/Entertainment
KEYWORDS: cds; mp3
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To: F15Eagle
My personal recommendation is to avoid the protected iTunes. They apparently embed links and ping back to the server if you use them on a PC connected to the internet (when you play them).

Or you just burn a whole CD's worth of them and reimport them and they'll work anytime, anywhere, on anything.
51 posted on 06/22/2008 10:10:21 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan

True but you have to have the iTunes player (which is free of course) to play them from what I can tell. They didn’t play on my XP machine nor my Vista machine when I got them (friend had an account so I reimbursed him).

So I don’t have to jump I just prefer the MP3 format and unprotected.


52 posted on 06/22/2008 10:14:01 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, John 11:25, 14:6, 1 Tim 2:5, John 3:17-18, John 20:31, 1 John 5:13, John 6:69)
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To: F15Eagle
True but you have to have the iTunes player (which is free of course) to play them from what I can tell. They didn’t play on my XP machine nor my Vista machine when I got them (friend had an account so I reimbursed him).

If you download them from the iTunes store, you're downloading them on a machine that has iTunes. If you download their locked ACC files and then burn a CD, the AIFF files on that CD can be reimported on any machine, converted to MP3s and played by anything without a problem.
53 posted on 06/22/2008 10:16:32 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan

But since I didn’t have an account myself aren’t the locked ones (admittedly they unlock in your scenario) registered only to my friend (who I reimubursed)? Of course they would only report if they actually played I think.

That’s why I paid somebody else to get the MP3’s from an unlocked source and he registered them to me.


54 posted on 06/22/2008 10:30:13 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, John 11:25, 14:6, 1 Tim 2:5, John 3:17-18, John 20:31, 1 John 5:13, John 6:69)
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To: aruanan

Yeah I’m actually going to put much of my CD collection into MP3 because I’ve damaged a dozen CD’s or so carrying them over the years.


55 posted on 06/22/2008 10:31:11 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, John 11:25, 14:6, 1 Tim 2:5, John 3:17-18, John 20:31, 1 John 5:13, John 6:69)
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To: F15Eagle
Yeah I’m actually going to put much of my CD collection into MP3 because I’ve damaged a dozen CD’s or so carrying them over the years.

If you find a Game Crazy with the guys who know what they're doing, they can buff your CDs and DVDs and make them playable (unless the metal has been damaged or the plastic is cracked). The buffers they use are excellent. They cost about $1000 but if you get a membership for $20/yr to Game Crazy in some places they'll give you 5 five-buff cards, otherwise it's $1.50 per buff or a 5-buff card for $5.00.
56 posted on 06/23/2008 4:44:53 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: F15Eagle
But since I didn’t have an account myself aren’t the locked ones (admittedly they unlock in your scenario) registered only to my friend (who I reimubursed)? Of course they would only report if they actually played I think.

But once they're converted to AIFF by burning them onto a CD and reimported as MP3, they don't carry any registration information. I wasn't able to play on PSP a bunch of stuff I bought from the iTunes store so I just burned the CD, imported it as high quality MP3s, and then dragged and dropped them into the PSP music folder. Problem solved.
57 posted on 06/23/2008 4:48:17 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: umgud
I don’t wown an MP3 and want the music on CD’s.

iTunes is AAC, better quality than MP3 for the size. But iTunes and other programs will burn regular CDs, converting your AAC/MP3 files to CD format on the fly.

58 posted on 06/23/2008 6:28:51 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: aft_lizard
Oh and ignore the itunes and apple people if you own a pc, they dont realize that you do not need that hunk of software jamming your system

I've used pretty much every popular media player/organizer out there since before MP3s (CD player app in the early 90s), and I settled on iTunes as the best long before I ever got a Mac.

59 posted on 06/23/2008 6:31:49 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: papasmurf
as Potlatch says, wav’s are very small.

I may not know the whole story here, but that doesn't sound right. WAVs are uncompressed audio. If the WAV of a song is small, it's because the quality is very low or you really have an MP3 with a WAV file extension.

60 posted on 06/23/2008 6:36:55 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: potlatch
I mostly download WAV files. Contrary to what most people think, they are a “fraction” of the size of MP3’

WAVs are uncompressed. At the same quality level of recording, an MP3 will be up to 10 times smaller.

61 posted on 06/23/2008 6:42:30 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: antiRepublicrat

But you do not and he does not need it at all. You download a bunch of songs off of AMazon, put a CD in your PC, drag and drop them onto your cd-r in XP and voila you have your music cd. Amazon is extremely easy to use, type name of music or genre find song and click to download which is on a highspeed server, and every song and CD is DRM free and very often you will find entire cd’s for less than 10 dollars and cheaper and individual tracks cheaper than 99 cents as well.


62 posted on 06/23/2008 6:44:04 AM PDT by aft_lizard (One animal actually its eats its own brains to conserve energy, we call them liberals.)
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To: potlatch
Thanks papasmurf, I've been doing this for some time. I'll post a couple of WAV file songs that are low file size.

459KB Willie Nelson;
ON THE ROAD AGAIN That is a 24kbit MP3 encoded with the LAME encoder not a wav.

63 posted on 06/23/2008 6:56:25 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: Malsua

I have a DVD of a music concert. Can the audio only (not the video) be burned to a CDR to play on a CD player?


64 posted on 06/23/2008 6:56:39 AM PDT by newfreep ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." - P.J. O'Rourke)
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To: potlatch
Thanks papasmurf, I've been doing this for some time. I'll post a couple of WAV file songs that are low file size.

459KB Willie Nelson;
ON THE ROAD AGAIN

That is a 24kbit MP3 encoded with the LAME encoder not a wav.

65 posted on 06/23/2008 6:57:21 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: Malsua; antiRepublicrat

My answer, I thought, was relative to his desire to have his music on a CD to be played in a regular CD player. MP3’s won’t, to the best of my experience, wav’s will.

I don’t even concern myself with AAC, as I abhor needing authorization and DRM.


66 posted on 06/23/2008 7:00:32 AM PDT by papasmurf (Unless I post a link to a resource, what I post is opinion, regardless of how I spin it.)
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To: newfreep
Can the audio only (not the video) be burned to a CDR to play on a CD player?

Sure. Lots of ways to do this. Personally I would convert the DVD to DIVX(or AVI) format(google it, lots of free tools) then convert the DIVX/AVI to MP3 using "Media Converter SA"(the downloaded one, not the online one) also free.

There are other programs which can demux the audio out but since DVDs are multiple files, it's easier to convert it to one single Divx or AVI then get the audio out of that.

67 posted on 06/23/2008 7:03:26 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: papasmurf

Any CD burning software, Nero, Easy media creator, etc. that can make an Audio CD will automatically transition those files to WAVs for creation of the Audio CD during burning. You don’t even know it’s happening, it just does it. No biggie.

The downloaded MP3s from Amazon are usually 320bit or at least 192bit so when converted to WAVs for audio, there is no noticeable loss in sound quality when buring to an audio cd. Specially in a car with road noise.


68 posted on 06/23/2008 7:09:10 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: Malsua

“The downloaded MP3s from Amazon are usually 320bit or at least 192bit so when converted to WAVs for audio, there is no noticeable loss in sound quality when buring to an audio cd. Specially in a car with road noise.”

Anything more than 128-160k is overkill for my ears. LOL


69 posted on 06/23/2008 7:27:44 AM PDT by papasmurf (Unless I post a link to a resource, what I post is opinion, regardless of how I spin it.)
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To: Malsua

Thanks Malsua. I downloaded DIVX and totally confused as to which program to run and how to create MP3 or WAV files from DVD in my drive. Any suggestions is appreciated.


70 posted on 06/23/2008 7:31:57 AM PDT by newfreep ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." - P.J. O'Rourke)
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To: papasmurf
Anything more than 128-160k is overkill for my ears. LOL

I can tell a 128kbit from a 192kbit with headphones on, it's slight but not enough for me to care. In a car with wind noise and everything else, there's no way to tell.

I think the original poster should download 30-40 minutes of MP3s he likes from Amazon...then we can talk him through getting them onto an Audio cd. My wife's 08 Honda WILL play MP3s as well as audio CDs...but I bought her an Ipod Nano instead. All in one place, no discs to deal with and easier to manage. Of course, the new Honda has an input jack so that sealed the deal.

71 posted on 06/23/2008 7:38:52 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: aruanan
I wasn't able to play on PSP a bunch of stuff I bought from the iTunes store so I just burned the CD, imported it as high quality MP3s, and then dragged and dropped them into the PSP music folder.

A tip for retaining quality for your original versions: Re-import as Apple Lossless and you don't lose any quality but you now have non-DRM version in iTunes. You can later convert to MP3 for other devices, but you do lose quality. IIRC, the PSP also does AAC, so try that to get some better quality than MP3.

72 posted on 06/23/2008 7:41:04 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat

I’ve also used a lot of different programs, and, at the moment, my favorite is WinAmp (though that is subject to change). It does good ripping/burning, has decent library capabilities, and plays well with others.

I’ve found one thing that iTunes does that WinAmp (and others) doesn’t: iTunes will let you send your library or playlist to a standard output file or printer. Most of the others I’ve tried don’t, which is frustrating when I’m trying to standardize artist names, locations, etc. on my PCs. However, I’ve heard that iTunes is being blocked by corporate software programs, so you can’t use it at work. WinAmp and Windows Media doesn’t have this problem, which is a positive.


73 posted on 06/23/2008 7:42:02 AM PDT by ssaftler
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To: papasmurf
My answer, I thought, was relative to his desire to have his music on a CD to be played in a regular CD player. MP3’s won’t, to the best of my experience, wav’s will.

A disk of MP3 or WAV files will not play on a regular CD player. The audio needs to be layed out on on the disk in Red Book (audio CD) format tracks with 16-bit PCM at 44,100 Hz. Now a WAV encoded exactly like that will just be laying the bitstream down in the right tracks, while most programs will convert the MP3 to that format before writing the audio tracks.

I don’t even concern myself with AAC, as I abhor needing authorization and DRM.

AAC doesn't have to be DRM. People only think that because most (not all) of the iTunes tracks are made that way. AAC as generally used is just MPEG-4 Part 3, as MP3 was MPEG-1/2 Audio Layer 3. Any additions, such as DRM, are just vendor-specific implementations. Check it out, because the quality vs. bitrate is a LOT better than MP3 (128kb AAC = 192kb MP3, but with better frequency range).

74 posted on 06/23/2008 7:57:12 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: newfreep

There are some tools to directly rip DVD to MP3 but just a cursory look and they all want some $20-$39. It would do an entire DVD in probably 20 minutes.

For the free route, you can use DVDx
http://www.wikihow.com/Rip-a-DVD-to-an-AVI-or-MPG-File-Using-DVDx

to make a Divx or AVI file.

Then use Media Converter SA to convert that divx/avi to an MP3.
http://www.mediaconverter.org/index.php?s=c&show=downloads

That’s gonna take a while depending on how long your DVD is.
You can also load the video into higher end video software like Adobe Premiere and extract the audio that way.


75 posted on 06/23/2008 8:01:23 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: newfreep
I have a DVD of a music concert. Can the audio only (not the video) be burned to a CDR to play on a CD player?

First you need to rip the DVD. Get a program called HandBrake. I can't remember if that does audio stream only, but if it doesn't just tell it to convert your DVD to a movie file, streaming the audio straight through with no conversion.

Then install the free Virtual Dub and open the movie in it. This program has an option to strip your audio off into a WAV file for later conversion by iTunes or such, or straight into another format like MP3 if you have the appropriate filters installed.

76 posted on 06/23/2008 8:09:01 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
I may not know the whole story here, but that doesn't sound right. WAVs are uncompressed audio. If the WAV of a song is small, it's because the quality is very low or you really have an MP3 with a WAV file extension.

Correct. WAV files are very large, which is why only about fifteen songs in WAV format will fit on a 700 megabyte disk.

77 posted on 06/23/2008 8:09:13 AM PDT by KevinB (John McCain is to the Republican Party as James Taylor is to the the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame)
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To: aft_lizard
But you do not and he does not need it at all. You download a bunch of songs off of AMazon, put a CD in your PC, drag and drop them onto your cd-r in XP and voila you have your music cd.

Dropping them onto a CD-R will not work in a normal CD player. They have to be converted, and you need a program for that. And I hate Windows Media Player (almost as much as Real Player). In iTunes I make a playlist, click a button, and the CD is burned. And even if you're using Amazon, you can just drop the songs onto iTunes.

78 posted on 06/23/2008 8:15:46 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Malsua

Check out Handbrake that I linked to. Some other FReeper (thankyouthankyouthankyou) suggested it a while back, and it has been my hands-down favorite since then. For Mac and PC.


79 posted on 06/23/2008 8:21:01 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: papasmurf

Bookmarked. Thanks, papa.


80 posted on 06/23/2008 8:34:13 AM PDT by processing please hold ( A gov. big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have)
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To: Malsua; umgud; All
I have found most all MP3 files to be in the 1 to 5 meg file size. Most WAV files are under 1 meg and usually from 400 to 700kbs. They sound good and I combine both when I burn to CDs. I use good CDs and you cannot tell the difference in the final results.

I'll give you two examples Malsua;

IWalkTheLine-JCash.mp3     2.50MB    LINK

IWalkTheLine-JCash.wav     486kb     LINK

StandByMe-BenKing.mp3     3.45MB     LINK

StandByMe-BenKing.wav     433.kb     LINK

81 posted on 06/23/2008 8:37:48 AM PDT by potlatch (MICHELLE OBAMA - The gift that just keeps on giving....!)
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To: KevinB

I have hundreds of WAV music files under 1mb. I never go to the Canteen for music as the MP3s are 4 and 5 meg in size.


82 posted on 06/23/2008 8:52:06 AM PDT by potlatch (MICHELLE OBAMA - The gift that just keeps on giving....!)
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To: potlatch

>> IWalkTheLine-JCash.mp3 2.50MB LINK

IWalkTheLine-JCash.wav 486kb LINK<<

You’ll see that the one labeled .wav is a 24kbit audio rate and the one labeled .mp3 is 128kbit audio rate. 5 times the number of bits in the 128kbit mp3 and 5 times the file size of the 24kbit.

You may be ok with 24kbit recordings, but they sound tinny and hollow to me.

I just converted the MP3 to a genuine, uncompressed file and it was 57mbs. WAV files are uncompressed, all things being equal(like length, bitrate, etc) an MP3 will always be up to 10 times smaller.


83 posted on 06/23/2008 9:04:29 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: antiRepublicrat

Correct me if I am wrong but he did say he has mp3 playback free already installed in his cd player, either way his OS came with a great free and easy to use program called WMP, and if he isn’t using drm tunes he can use that. WMP does everything that itunes does except sell you the songs. I know you are anti-everything MS but WMP is not that bad nad is very easy to use.


84 posted on 06/23/2008 9:08:18 AM PDT by aft_lizard (One animal actually its eats its own brains to conserve energy, we call them liberals.)
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To: Malsua
I am certainly not an expert on sound quality. It is very confusing but as I said, I have hundreds of “wav” files under one meg and all my MP3s are triple that.

Therefor in my webhosting site I can have quadruple the number of files. They do seem to sound equally good on the burned CDs.

This is an ‘old Timmy’ site where I get many wav downloads and I have many sites like that that I go to.

http://www.pcdon.com/pop-country.html

85 posted on 06/23/2008 9:12:16 AM PDT by potlatch (MICHELLE OBAMA - The gift that just keeps on giving....!)
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To: potlatch
I may not know the whole story here, but that doesn't sound right. WAVs are uncompressed audio. If the WAV of a song is small, it's because the quality is very low or you really have an MP3 with a WAV file extension.

Yes, I agree that wav files can be small. I assumed we were talking about CD quality, which is what the original poster was talking about. The 1 meg wav file could be about five seconds of CD quality music or a couple of minutes of really bad quality music.

86 posted on 06/23/2008 9:15:23 AM PDT by KevinB (John McCain is to the Republican Party as James Taylor is to the the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame)
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To: KevinB

Did you listen to some of the wav files I posted above?
Stand by Me and I Walk The Line

Do they really sound bad to you? I’m curious.


87 posted on 06/23/2008 9:21:47 AM PDT by potlatch (MICHELLE OBAMA - The gift that just keeps on giving....!)
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To: Drew68

Let’s see. There were 45’s, albums, 8-track tapes, cassettes then CD’s. I have paid the RIAA a number of times for the same songs. I am finished.


88 posted on 06/23/2008 9:22:32 AM PDT by gathersnomoss (General George Patton had it right.)
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To: potlatch

A CD-quality standard WAV file takes about 10 megabytes to store one minute of music. 44,100 samples per second at 2 bytes per sample times two channels equals 172 KB per second, *60 = 10 MB per minute. An MP3 at 128 kilobits per second takes only about 937 KB per minute, less than one-tenth the size, but with a somewhat noticeable loss of quality compared to the WAV. A high-quality 320 kbits/sec MP3 that’s hard to distinguish from CD/WAV quality (likely only audiophiles with high-end equipment will notice the difference) takes only 2.3 MB per minute .

So either yours are very low quality or they are compressed with MP3 or something else inside the WAV container. Later I’ll take some time to download your files, examine them, and tell you what’s up.


89 posted on 06/23/2008 9:22:34 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
So either yours are very low quality or they are compressed with MP3 or something else inside the WAV container

Both. Lame MP3 encoding in a Wav wrapper at 24kbits.

90 posted on 06/23/2008 9:26:44 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: antiRepublicrat

OK. I get many old songs at this site;
http://www.pcdon.com/pop-country.html

As I said, they sound good to me so I guess it depends upon how discerning one is on the sound quality. The mp3s and wavs seem to sound equally good on my CDs.


91 posted on 06/23/2008 9:27:37 AM PDT by potlatch (MICHELLE OBAMA - The gift that just keeps on giving....!)
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To: antiRepublicrat
I thought it was initially just a mislabeled mp3, but the header shows that it's a wav format. Look at the bitrate and audio format.


92 posted on 06/23/2008 9:34:13 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: Malsua

Oh, yeah, it’s Mono too. heh.


93 posted on 06/23/2008 9:36:42 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: potlatch
I am certainly not an expert on sound quality. It is very confusing but as I said, I have hundreds of “wav” files under one meg and all my MP3s are triple that.

If the sound quality is low then the WAV will be small. But if you convert that to a constant bit-rate MP3 it will be larger. For example a WAV at 8,000 Hz 8-bit mono is about 470 KB per minute, but convert that to a constant bit-rate 128 Kb/sec MP3 and you're back up to 937 KB per minute. Basically, you just cut the quality more and wasted a lot of space.

94 posted on 06/23/2008 9:38:23 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: umgud
Why not listen to XM? I spent 12 hours on the road this weekend and listened to XM the entire way. I listened to some music, a bit of talk, and the Red Sox-Cards game.

Curse you Kevin Youkilis!

95 posted on 06/23/2008 9:43:09 AM PDT by Fundamentally Fair (When all you have is a kitty, every problem looks like a troll.)
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To: Malsua
I thought it was initially just a mislabeled mp3, but the header shows that it's a wav format.

Soooo, if you thought it was an MP3 at first - it must not have sounded 'lame' to you, right? Lol!

I can understand that if you are in a quiet room listening to music you will want the sound to be excellent quality. If you are out jogging, walking or riding in a car the quality is not as obvious or necessary, I think.

But - I could be wrong!!

96 posted on 06/23/2008 9:51:35 AM PDT by potlatch (MICHELLE OBAMA - The gift that just keeps on giving....!)
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To: antiRepublicrat

OK, I give up, but thanks for the info.

I enjoy what I have and use and that’s all that’s important to me. If I were “20 something” again, I might be more finicky.


97 posted on 06/23/2008 9:55:24 AM PDT by potlatch (MICHELLE OBAMA - The gift that just keeps on giving....!)
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To: Malsua

It’s what I said in 89. WAV isn’t a format itself, but a container for audio, although mostly used to store uncompressed audio in PCM format. But it can also store an MP3 audio stream as yours does, and in that case you might as well have an MP3 file.

I saw it was mono, but you’re also using half the bit rate of a CD there. It is a 24 Kb/sec MP3, so 175 KB/minute, sounds about right for your file sizes. But since you’re doing mono the bitrate is the equivalent of a 48 Kb/sec stereo MP3 for quality. Normally below 128 Kb/sec in stereo (64 Kb/sec mono) distortion gets really bad as the compression tries to squeeze all the audio in that tiny bitstream; however, you’re using half the sampling rate so you’ll get less distortion (less data to squeeze) but can only reproduce up to 11,000 Hz frequencies according to the Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem.


98 posted on 06/23/2008 9:57:03 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: umgud

ping for later reference


99 posted on 06/23/2008 10:07:21 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (Happiness is a choice!)
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To: potlatch
Did you listen to some of the wav files I posted above?

I just did, Potlatch. The mp3 file is substantially superior to the wav file. The wav file lacks crispness and sounds like it's being played in a tunnel from a distance. I'm not an audiophile by any means, but the wav file would not provide a satisfactory listening experience for me. If it works for you, though, that's great.

100 posted on 06/23/2008 11:11:34 AM PDT by KevinB (John McCain is to the Republican Party as James Taylor is to the the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame)
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