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Nancy Pelosi on when life begins

Posted on 08/24/2008 10:29:14 AM PDT by Progresso

On Meet the Press this morning... MR. BROKAW: Senator Obama saying the question of when life begins is above his pay grade, whether you're looking at it scientifically or theologically. If he were to come to you and say, "Help me out here, Madame Speaker. When does life begin?" what would you tell him?

REP. PELOSI: I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. And Senator--St. Augustine said at three months. We don't know. The point is, is that it shouldn't have an impact on the woman's right to choose. Roe v. Wade talks about very clear definitions of when the child--first trimester, certain considerations; second trimester; not so third trimester. There's very clear distinctions. This isn't about abortion on demand, it's about a careful, careful consideration of all factors and--to--that a woman has to make with her doctor and her god. And so I don't think anybody can tell you when life begins, human life begins. As I say, the Catholic Church for centuries has been discussing this, and there are those who've decided...

TOPICS: Religion
KEYWORDS: abortion; catholic; pelosi; prolife
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To: RedRedRose

Congratulations on your post and RCIA

To further your studies, I invite you to review and use “A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum” Available FREE at

51 posted on 08/25/2008 1:58:20 PM PDT by (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available FREE at
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To: Mr. Mojo
Augustine was not, of course, a Pope; he was not an Ecumenical Council (!); and he did not and does not define doctrine for the Church. However, in point of doctrine he was right (it is always morally wrong to kill an embryo) even though his science was (not surprisingly) 4th century.

It's only in the last few centuries that scientific investigations have revealed how human conception and early embryonic development occur. In the days of St. Hildegard of Bingen, IIRC, the leading scientists thought that the father's semen caused the blood in the mother's womb to "curdle," and that the "curd" thus formed increased in size as more "curds" stuck to it, until after a period of time it was "animated" and became a living human embryo.

Anton van Leeuwenhoek proposed that fertilization occurs when the sperm enters the egg, but this could not actually be observed for another 100 years because of the quality of microscopes which were available.

The church has always rightly taught that every living human being, even prenatally, has a soul, and the sanctity of his or her life must be recognized. This is the doctrinal point, which has been constant.

But prior to being able to see the actual fertilization of an ovum by a sperm cell --- I think this was first observed in the mid-19th Century --- people were necessarily unsure about when or how that life began. This is the scientific point, about which there were various opinions until the observation of fertilization, and later, the discovery of DNA.

By the way, the church taught even in the very earliest times that abortion is murder. In the Didache (The Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) — the first manual of doctrine, liturgical laws and morals written somewhere between the the years of 50 and 80 AD — we find the moral prohibition, "You shall not kill by abortion the fruit of the womb and you shall not murder the infant already born."

The Church forbade the destruction of the "fruit of the womb" even if the embryo was not "formed" and was still being made from (as they supposed) the blood of the mother:

"For us [Christians], murder is once and for all forbidden; so even the child in womb, while yet the Mother's blood is still being drawn on to form the human being, it is not lawful for us to destroy." - Tertullian, 197 AD, Apologeticus. That's about as clear as it could possibly be. And I am double dang sure and morally certain that Augustine agreed.

52 posted on 08/25/2008 4:24:20 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The first duty of intelligent men of our day is the restatement of the obvious. " - George Orwell)
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To: Progresso

She really needs to be excommunicated form the Catholic Church, along with Biden and other Cahtolic politicians like them.

Their beleifs, so antithetical to the Catholic Church, are confusing. And they don’t hesitate to use their faith, to gain support and votes from Catholics. It would be better to make it clear they deliberatley do not practice or believe their faith and are no longer Catholic.

53 posted on 08/25/2008 6:11:09 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Proud Catholic supporter of Governor Mitt Romney for VP and future President of the United States!)
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Excellent information......... BUMP

54 posted on 08/25/2008 6:40:04 PM PDT by JulieRNR21 (Trust the Lord with all your heart.......)
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To: Progresso

55 posted on 08/25/2008 8:50:46 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Agreed. They have no interest in truth, whether it’s science, history, economics, etc.

56 posted on 08/25/2008 9:04:43 PM PDT by NewLand (Hey Hey, Ho Ho, Barry & Joe have got to go!)
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Pelosi really stepped into it when she misrepresented the Catholic church.

57 posted on 08/25/2008 9:55:14 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (Regarding Jerome Corsi and Obama Nation --
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...
 Pelosi lies about Catholicism and abortion
Bishops Correct Speaker Nancy Pelosi: On the Separation of Sense and State
Bishops Correct Speaker Nancy Pelosi: On the Separation of Sense and State
 Pelosi, Abortion & St. Augustine - UPDATED
Denver archbishop slams Pelosi on Church teachings and abortion"Catholic" Speaker Pelosi Denies that Catholicism Condemns Abortion
How should Catholics vote? [editorial from the LA Times]
Her Eminence San Fran Nan Changes Catholic Tenets On Abortion
“Help me out here, Madam Speaker” ( “I don't think anybody can tell you when life begins” )
Speaker Pelosi on Drilling and Alternative Energy (Classic Pelosi)
More on the Impact of Being a "Person"
Nancy Pelosi on when life begins
Sunday, August 24, 2008 1:29:14 PM · by Progresso · 55 replies · 1,700+ views
Republican Policy Committee
August 25, 2008
The Honorable Nancy Pelosi
Speaker of the House of Representatives
H-232, The Capitol
Washington, D.C. 20515
Dear Speaker Pelosi,
On the Sunday, August 24th, broadcast of NBC’s Meet the Press, you stated “as an ardent, practicing Catholic, [abortion] is an issue that I have studied for a long time.” As fellow Catholics and legislators, we wish you would have made a more honest effort to lay out the authentic position of the Church on this core moral issue before attempting to address it with authority.
Your subsequent remarks mangle Catholic Church doctrine regarding the inherent sanctity and dignity of human life; therefore, we are compelled to refute your error.
In the interview, Tom Brokaw reminded you that the Church professes the sanctity of human life from conception to natural death. As stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: “Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being” (2274).    To this, you responded, “I understand. And this is like maybe 50 years or something like that. So again, over the history of the Church, this is an issue of controversy.” Unfortunately, your statement demonstrates a lack of understanding of Catholic teaching and belief regarding abortion.
From the Apostles of the first century to Pope John Paul the Great “the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law” (Catechism 2271).
Thus, your erroneous claim about the history of the Church’s opposition to abortion is false and denigrates our common Faith. For example, during the reign of Pope Innocent XI in 1679, the Church unequivocally stated it is an error for Catholics to believe fetuses do not have a soul; and confirmed the teaching that abortion constitutes homicide.
To reduce the scandal and consternation caused amongst the faithful by your remarks, we necessarily write you to correct the public record and affirm the Church’s actual and historical teaching that defends the sanctity of human life. We hope that you will rectify your errant claims and apologize for misrepresenting the Church’s doctrine and misleading fellow Catholics.
Hon. Thaddeus G. McCotter (MI)
Hon. Steve Chabot (OH)
Hon. Virginia Foxx (NC)
Hon. Phil Gingrey (GA)
Hon. Peter King (NY)
Hon. Steve King (IA)
Hon. Daniel Lungren (CA)
Hon. Devin Nunes (CA)
Hon. John Sullivan (OK)
Hon. Patrick Tiberi (OH)
Bishops respond to House Speaker Pelosi’s misrepresentation of Church teaching against abortion
WASHINGTON--Cardinal Justin F. Rigali, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Pro-Life Activities, and Bishop William E. Lori, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Doctrine, have issued the following statement:

In the course of a “Meet the Press” interview on abortion and other public issues on August 24, 2008, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi misrepresented the history and nature of the authentic teaching of the Catholic Church against abortion.

The Church has always taught that human life deserves respect from its very beginning and that procured abortion is a grave moral evil. In the Middle Ages, uninformed and inadequate theories about embryology led some theologians to speculate that specifically human life capable of receiving an immortal soul may not exist until a few weeks into pregnancy. While in canon law these theories led to a distinction in penalties between very early and later abortions, the Church’s moral teaching never justified or permitted abortion at any stage of development.

These mistaken biological theories became obsolete over 150 years ago when scientists discovered that a new human individual comes into being from the union of sperm and egg at fertilization. In keeping with this modern understanding, the Church has long taught that from the time of conception (fertilization), each member of the human species must be given the full respect due to a human person, beginning with respect for the fundamental right to life.

More information on the Church's teaching on this issue can be found in our brochure "The Catholic Church is a Pro-Life Church".  
PDF  Text
Statement on Responsibilities of Catholics in Public Life
“Happy Are Those Who Are Called to His Supper”:
On Preparing to Receive Christ Worthily in the Eucharist

Bishops Ask Catholics To Pray Election Novena
WASHINGTON—The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) invites U.S. Catholics to pray before the November election a novena for life, justice, and peace called Novena for Faithful Citizenship. It is a podcast and available for download.
Joan Rosenhauer, Associate Director for the USCCB’s Department of Justice, Peace and Human Development, said that the special novena is part of “the bishops’ campaign to help Catholics develop well-formed consciences for addressing political and social questions.” The bishops issued their statement on forming consciences for faithful citizenship in November 2007.

58 posted on 08/25/2008 9:57:59 PM PDT by Coleus (Abortion and Physician-assisted Murder (aka-Euthanasia), Don't Democrats just kill ya?)
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To: Progresso; Coleus
Pinged from Terri Dailies


59 posted on 08/26/2008 3:58:29 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Progresso

The importance of her reply lies in her assertion that it doesn’t matter anyway. The woman’s “right” to choose is paramount, whether a human life is ended or not. Human get rights when the leftist elite say so, and not a moment earlier. Thus can the left also decertify a human at any point.

60 posted on 08/26/2008 4:11:11 AM PDT by pharmamom (I'll be darned; I DO have a mouse in my pocket.)
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To: MississippiMan

“But they did not hear me, nor incline their ear: but hardened their neck that they might not hear me, and might not receive instruction.” (Jer. 17:23)

“Woe to you that call evil good, and good evil: that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.”( IS. v.20)

“That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity.” (2 Thess. 2:11)

Apostates like Nancy willfully blind themselves to the truth, yet cling to the Church, claiming they remain members of it.

Cooperation with grave evils such as abortion automatically excommmunicate the cooperators from the Church.

Yet, as you say, Catholic teaching is clear, but the willfully arrogant, proud, and evil blind themselves to its very clear teaching.

Scriptures are clear that the instructed who willfully cling to grave sin in this world will be punished very severely in the afterlife.

61 posted on 08/26/2008 4:28:56 AM PDT by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: SumProVita

I love your tag!

62 posted on 08/26/2008 4:32:13 AM PDT by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: RedRedRose


63 posted on 08/26/2008 4:37:56 AM PDT by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: Coleus

Excellent Coleus. Thanks for sending this.

64 posted on 08/26/2008 4:40:14 AM PDT by milford421 (U.N. OUT OF U.S.)
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To: Coleus

Thank God for Pelosi’s big mouth. Now I am waiting to see if anyone questions Biden about this. He reminds me of those rosary-swinging nuns who loudly champion women’s rights.

65 posted on 08/26/2008 4:57:21 AM PDT by RobbyS (Ecce homo)
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To: Progresso

I think Dr. laura said “Life begins when the dog dies and the kids move out”

66 posted on 08/26/2008 5:57:05 AM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: Progresso

What part of practicing Catholic makes sense here? Life begins at conception. There has been no ambiguity in that definition from the time teachings in the church were written down almost 2000 years ago. I was pleased to see that Archbishop Wuerhl of Washington denounced her words as being untrue. She should be refused communion as she is not in the state of grace to receive it.

Nancy “San Fran Nan” Pelosi will get hers on judgment day when she is held accountable for her actions to harm the helpless and support abortion.

67 posted on 08/26/2008 6:27:43 AM PDT by kevinm13 (The Main Stream Media is dead! "Global Warming" is a HOAX!)
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To: Progresso

Pelosi parades her ignorance of Church teaching for everyone to see.

68 posted on 08/26/2008 5:44:16 PM PDT by SuziQ
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