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Strongly considering buying a gun

Posted on 09/20/2008 8:15:55 PM PDT by LiberalsSpendYourMoney

I'm strongly considering buying a handgun to carry concealed. Live in Upstate NY, 26 years old, male, attorney. Married - no kids yet so don't have to buy a gun safe.

Getting the license unrestricted won't be a problem because I'm good friends with the judge who issues them. I will have to take a safety course before applying, however.

Don't know a huge amount about handguns or guns but probably about as much as the average American male. Went hunting with my uncle a couple times as a kid and I've fired a 1911 at the range once before.

Am open to either a semiautomatic or a revolver. Have looked at the Glock 26 and Kahr PM9 so far in local gun shops. I am looking for more suggestions and/or opinions on those two models - I don't really want to carry a full-sized handgun like the 1911 though. I want something that I can ideally tuck inside the waistband without printing and something that won't weigh me down because I'm on my feet about half of every workday. I know that New York still has its state version of the assault weapons ban in effect, so I believe all magazines manufactured after the ban that have capacities of more than 10 rounds are still illegal. I could conceivably purchase a large-cap mag that was manufactured before 1994, but federal and state gun laws are not my area of expertise, so I would have to look into the legalities of that. I'm not even really sure if I need a magazine larger than 10 rounds though if I'm going to be carrying a compact or subcompact pistol.


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To: Kirkwood

You must be confusing me with someone else, sorry. This is the first time I’ve ever posted a thread in general chat, let alone a thread about purchasing a gun.

41 posted on 09/20/2008 9:06:49 PM PDT by LiberalsSpendYourMoney (Barry, you're more racist than 99% of Americans. And you're ugly.)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

When you and your gun are in the house, the nightstand drawer (or anywhere else easily accessible) is where it belongs.

When you are out of your house and the gun is still there, an easily accessible place is not the proper place for it. That’s why I have a gun safe.

If all you have is one handgun there are small safes that are very secure and easily concealable in your home. Mine weighs 800lbs. empty so I’m not too worried about someone making off with it...

42 posted on 09/20/2008 9:08:36 PM PDT by 43north (McCain/Palin '08 - Now That's the Ticket!!!)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

Glock 19.

43 posted on 09/20/2008 9:13:43 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (Happiness is a choice!)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
You need to shoot about 1000 rounds as soon as you get your gun.

Consider a Smith & Wesson 642 Centennial hammerless revolver.


44 posted on 09/20/2008 9:15:18 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

.38 SW Revolver.... nice and easy.

45 posted on 09/20/2008 9:16:01 PM PDT by Porterville (Mac Truck)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

If you want to carry you really should get some training in the use of deadly force for self defense. When you are trained you will have a much better idea of what sort of weapon will serve you best and you will have much less faith in the power of any weapon to work magic in an emergency.

Your most important weapon is your brain. Train it well.

46 posted on 09/20/2008 9:18:06 PM PDT by SBprone
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

Depending on your size and strength, I would suggest a revolver in .38, .44 or .45 caliber.

Medium frame revolvers are easy to conceal, and can be found which can fire both the mild .38 Special and the higher powered .357 magnum.

Large frame revolvers are more effective, but harder to conceal, and can be found which fire .44 Special and the higher powered .44 magnum.

A more specialized revolver is available in .45 ACP, that uses moon clips to quickly reload.

Unless you frequent territory with large bears, avoid hand cannons, though for the sake of completeness, they are available from Ruger in .45 Colt and .454 Casull.

Best to practice with lower power rounds, with more occasional shooting of higher power (and more expensive) self defense rounds.

Smith and Wesson makes a large number of excellent double action revolvers. Other solid makers are Ruger, Taurus, and Charter Arms. I don’t recommend the very high end revolvers such as Korth to beginners.

It is also a good idea to have a .22 revolver that is similar to your larger caliber revolver. The way to get good at shooting is to get up to your butt in empty shells. Unless you are independently wealthy, you want to do that using the cheap .22 Long Rifle. Smaller rounds also let you work on trigger skills, with less danger of carpal tunnel, and less danger of developing a nasty flinch.

I would not recommend an automatic pistol for a first gun. An accidental discharge can ruin the rest of your life.
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Don’t point your gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
4. Know your target-AND what is behind it.

The average pistol engagement is still what it was 20 years ago, about 3 rounds. A pistol/revolver shot is LOUD! The first shot changes the dynamics of any social encounter. Outside the military, or SWAT units, more rounds than 6 are very very rarely needed. Never go somewhere with the gun if you wouldn’t go there without the gun.

47 posted on 09/20/2008 9:18:48 PM PDT by donmeaker (You may not be interested in War but War is interested in you.)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

Sorry. Anyway, buying a gun is like buying shoes. Think about that. What is right for one shooter is not necessarily right for you and your lifestyle. Then go to a gun store and just spend time looking at guns and asking questions. If you can find a range that rents guns, that will then allow you to compare. Don’t forget to shoot with the load you plan to carry.

How are you going to conceal carry? That will determine the holster and the holster (and comfort in general) can sometimes narrow down your choice. What I like to carry and what I have in my bedroom are 2 different kinds of guns. Do you need two or more guns? No, but I’m just saying that your first gun may not be the only one you end up owning.

48 posted on 09/20/2008 9:20:00 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

I carried a gun in Wash DC before the gun ban and always like revolvers because you could send the pistol back to a Gun Smith like Wilson in Pennsylvania to take away the throat that was cut into the barrel. This way you could get a gun that could knock down a can at 50 yds. But I think that if you want to carry a gun then you need one to practice with like a 22 or air pistol and one to carry ... this is because it takes about 65,000 to 250,000 to use a gun accurately and the most difficult is practicing dryfiring on a spot on the wall because it is just plain boring but very necessary.

49 posted on 09/20/2008 9:29:21 PM PDT by extol
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
IANAL - but can't pass up the chance to drop a couple of pointers to you.       :^)

1) Spend a couple of hours looking through the NY State and NY City / Nassau County Gun Laws and Restrictions.
2) Right off the bat -- you cannot legally fire a handgun without a Permit, so there is no "try-and-buy" for your first one. (A friend in a quarry ... !)
3) Find a Range and Dealer near you, and seek your information from them; they know the regs for the area and who to deal with (and stay away from!) in the local administrations.
4) Get what fits you and your hand, not whatever someone wants to give you 'a good deal' on.
5) Take some lessons, both class and range time, to acquaint yourself with maintenance of the tools and provide speed and accuracy of target aquisition. You will never take it out unless you need to use it; training will ensure you can hit the correct target immediately.
6) All guns are loaded, unless in pieces on your table.

I lived in Wayne County, and was going to get my permit when my company pulled me out and sent me out of state. Somewhere in the files I still have the application, lol.

Good luck.

50 posted on 09/20/2008 9:30:47 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
I've got a Glock 22, (.40 S&W), myself and I like it, but if I were to do it again today I'd probably get a Springfield XD either in .40 S&W or .45 ACP. They're both fantastic guns for concealed carry, but I like the XD's grip angle, mags and grip safety more.

For shooting at the range I prefer a full size 1911, but for actual concealed carry I find it too big, too heavy and it's capacity too low. I give the 1911 the nod for accuracy, but the XD and the Glock are more than adequate accuracywise to hit a bad guy at 25 yards.

I would hesitate to go with a caliber smaller than .40 S&W or .357 Magnum, unless it was for a pocket pistol. I've got a AMT .380 that I use for that. Even though it's somewhat underpowered, it's as small as a wallet and I can easily and comfortably conceal it wearing nothing but a pair of cutoffs.

51 posted on 09/20/2008 9:31:08 PM PDT by elmer fudd (Fukoku kyohei)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
Click on my name, or go directly go to my LINKS page, Lots of old gun threads, but good ones.

Short answer: Go to a range that rents handguns, take their safety course, get their range card, and take several months renting and shooting different models.

Buy the one that "fits", in other one that is comfortable in your hand, but, most importantly that you can consistently hit "center of mass" with at distances > 20 ft.

Second short answer: If you're not going to practice religiously-- and I mean in the sense that some people are about golf and others about Mass and yet others about yard sales--

Then don't buy one.

Most liberals would never understand it, but There's something very Zen about expertise in the use of firearms.

He's not Zen, but the Dalai Lama said the following,"

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."-------

[The Dalai Lama, in The Seattle Times, May 15, 2001].

52 posted on 09/20/2008 9:49:40 PM PDT by George Smiley (Palin is the real deal.)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
First of all, you need to realistically answer the questions:

  1. Why do I need to carry a gun?
  2. In what circumstances do I feel uncomfortable not having a gun?
  3. Is there anything about my daily routine that I can modify to reduce my perceived need to carry a gun?
  4. Am I prepared as a part of my daily routine to fasten my gun and holster to me prior to leaving the house?
  5. Am I prepared to spend time at the range with my carry piece shooting at least one box per week?
  6. Am I prepared to spend half an hour per week practicing combat quick draw and dry firing?
  7. Am I prepared to periodically take combat training and regularly practice the techniques?
  8. Am I prepared that once I draw the gun, I will not hesitate to use deadly force?
  9. Do I fully understand that once I pull the trigger, all the sorrow in the world will not undo what I just did?

If you still want to proceed, I am a huge fan of enclosed hammer revolvers for concealed carry. They aren't anywhere as sexy as the semi-auto's but we're talking about saving your life, not picking up chicks.

The enclosed hammer revolvers are specifically designed for concealed carry. When drawing, the smooth lines won't get snagged in your clothing and as revolvers, they will function every time.

A snub nosed revolver is generally less accurate than a longer barreled semiauto but at close range, you'll be doing point shooting so, the overall accuracy of the gun shouldn't be a factor. At close range 5 or 6 rounds of .357 mag. or .38 spl +P should be more than enough to thoroughly ruin an assailants day.

At longer distances, your shooting will be designed to prevent the pistol armed attacker from firing accurately by greatly increasing his stress level, from closing the distance and deciding to flee if he's still alive. Simultaneously, you will also be seeking the opportunity to take better cover or, to escape entirely.

Longer distances are probably where you'll fire more bullets and be faced with having to reload even though the assailant hasn't fully decided to depart the scene. So, if armed with a revolver, you'll want to carry one or two speed loaders and be well practiced at how to use them. This is where the semiautos with their higher magazine capacities come in real nice. In either case, you will want to be very adept at reloading.

Before buying, visit a lot of gun stores and gun shows. Handle a lot of guns. Ask a lot of questions. Narrow the list to just those which feel comfortable in your hand and feel comfortable the way you intend to carry. Think about the gun being cold and wet as well as your hands being cold, wet and dirty when you have to use it.

Once you have your list, research the manufactures of those guns and their reputation. Narrow the list some more if you need to. Once you have a list of guns you would be comfortable carrying, carefully consider their caliber and type of gun; revolver or semiauto.

If at the end of your analysis you still can't decide which way to go, buy both; an enclosed hammer revolver and semiauto. Over time, you'll settle on one as your primary. By having both, you'll always be prepared for a situation where you need to carry one, the other or, both. The snubby revolver can always be carried strapped to your ankle as a backup piece,

53 posted on 09/20/2008 9:49:58 PM PDT by fso301
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To: 43north; LiberalsSpendYourMoney
Most excellent advice, 43north

I get annoyed with people who make specific handgun recommendations as for model or make.

Just because my neighbor really, really likes his shoes is no reason for me to go out and buy a pair in the exact color, model and size.

54 posted on 09/20/2008 9:54:25 PM PDT by George Smiley (Palin is the real deal.)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

They make some amazing no-key gun safes designed for things like nightstand drawers or bolting to the side or bottom of the bed. touch your fingers in the right order, and you’re in. One-handed operation.

Other poster was right about lockin’ em up (and not just in something like this).

If they’re not on me or with me at the range, they’re locked up.

55 posted on 09/20/2008 10:01:50 PM PDT by George Smiley (Palin is the real deal.)
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To: George Smiley

[I get annoyed with people who make specific handgun recommendations as for model or make.]

True enough. I learned a long time ago that one must be suspicious of anything one reads in most gun mags or hears at a gun shop / range after encountering several of “the best handguns/rifles/shotguns every made” turned out to be crap. There is no substitute for “trying one on for size”.

My faorite up-close-and-personal shooter is an old Ruger Stainless Speed-Six 2.5” barrel in .357 mag with mid-range loads.

That being said, a hit with a .22LR is always more effective than a miss with anything larger.

56 posted on 09/20/2008 10:07:29 PM PDT by 43north (McCain/Palin '08 - Now That's the Ticket!!!)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney; 2ndDivisionVet
This is what I carry everywhere I go:

It's a Seecamp .32, and it fits very nicely and unobtrusively in your jeans pocket. You can stroll right into a stadium without getting a second look as they search the ladies' purses. It's a very reliable handgun, especially if you stick with the Winchester Silvertips.

If you want a gun to wear in a holster or for your car's glove compartment, go with a nice snubnose .38 revolver. Always go with a revolver for no-doubt-about-it reliability.

Also, these threads sometimes load up with people talking about "stopping power", and accuracy at 25 yards, and clip capacity, etc., etc., as if you should be prepared to fire from behind car doors or alley dumpsters in some kind of a movie-style shoot-em-up. The fact is, you want a concealed weapon so that if a bad situation suddenly jumps up out of nowhere and bites you in the ass you can get off a quick (hopefully surprise) point blank shot or two to the face or throat and then get the hell out of there as fast as you can.

Good luck!

57 posted on 09/20/2008 10:10:19 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

The right firearm is the one you like and is big enough to stop a bad guy. I would suggest at a minimum a 9mm but preferably a 45 ACP. Find a local gun dealer and tell him that you want to fire different weapons to see which one you like. When you like something buy it if it is a model and brand with a good record of reliability.

Then practice practice and practice some more.

Refuse to attend a gun fight unless the caliber of your weapon begins with the number 4 or larger.

58 posted on 09/20/2008 10:12:54 PM PDT by cpdiii (roughneck, oilfield trash and proud of it, geologist, pilot, pharmacist, iconoclast.)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
I see what you are saying about not letting guns fall into the wrong hands, but what good will my gun locked in a gun safe do me if someone were to break into my house? I’d much rather have the gun in my nightstand drawer.

When you come home in the evening, take the shotgun with 18 inch barrel and pistol grip stock out of the safe, load it with five rounds of #6 shot and place it on the nightstand. Some here will protest the use of #6 but if you can see him, #6 at close quarters will put anyone down without overpenetrating into your neighbors unit. Even in my own home, I wouldn't go larger than #4 shot.

In close quarters, a shotgun has a powerful psychological effect. Just the sound of a shotgun shell being chambered will cause most pistol armed men in another room to flee.

When you wake up in the morning, unload the shotgun and return it to the safe for the day. Take your pistol and have it on you and ready for use prior to walking out the front door.

59 posted on 09/20/2008 10:22:35 PM PDT by fso301
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To: fso301

I have a Kel-Tec P-32 which is easily concealed in your pockets for people who have concealed carry permits. I believe that 39 states now honor other states concealed carry. People who have been in the military are not required to pass a test in FL.

60 posted on 09/20/2008 10:42:27 PM PDT by yorkie01
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