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Strongly considering buying a gun

Posted on 09/20/2008 8:15:55 PM PDT by LiberalsSpendYourMoney

I'm strongly considering buying a handgun to carry concealed. Live in Upstate NY, 26 years old, male, attorney. Married - no kids yet so don't have to buy a gun safe.

Getting the license unrestricted won't be a problem because I'm good friends with the judge who issues them. I will have to take a safety course before applying, however.

Don't know a huge amount about handguns or guns but probably about as much as the average American male. Went hunting with my uncle a couple times as a kid and I've fired a 1911 at the range once before.

Am open to either a semiautomatic or a revolver. Have looked at the Glock 26 and Kahr PM9 so far in local gun shops. I am looking for more suggestions and/or opinions on those two models - I don't really want to carry a full-sized handgun like the 1911 though. I want something that I can ideally tuck inside the waistband without printing and something that won't weigh me down because I'm on my feet about half of every workday. I know that New York still has its state version of the assault weapons ban in effect, so I believe all magazines manufactured after the ban that have capacities of more than 10 rounds are still illegal. I could conceivably purchase a large-cap mag that was manufactured before 1994, but federal and state gun laws are not my area of expertise, so I would have to look into the legalities of that. I'm not even really sure if I need a magazine larger than 10 rounds though if I'm going to be carrying a compact or subcompact pistol.

Thanks!


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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
I've got a Glock 22, (.40 S&W), myself and I like it, but if I were to do it again today I'd probably get a Springfield XD either in .40 S&W or .45 ACP. They're both fantastic guns for concealed carry, but I like the XD's grip angle, mags and grip safety more.

For shooting at the range I prefer a full size 1911, but for actual concealed carry I find it too big, too heavy and it's capacity too low. I give the 1911 the nod for accuracy, but the XD and the Glock are more than adequate accuracywise to hit a bad guy at 25 yards.

I would hesitate to go with a caliber smaller than .40 S&W or .357 Magnum, unless it was for a pocket pistol. I've got a AMT .380 that I use for that. Even though it's somewhat underpowered, it's as small as a wallet and I can easily and comfortably conceal it wearing nothing but a pair of cutoffs.

51 posted on 09/20/2008 9:31:08 PM PDT by elmer fudd (Fukoku kyohei)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
Click on my name, or go directly go to my LINKS page, Lots of old gun threads, but good ones.

Short answer: Go to a range that rents handguns, take their safety course, get their range card, and take several months renting and shooting different models.

Buy the one that "fits", in other one that is comfortable in your hand, but, most importantly that you can consistently hit "center of mass" with at distances > 20 ft.

Second short answer: If you're not going to practice religiously-- and I mean in the sense that some people are about golf and others about Mass and yet others about yard sales--

Then don't buy one.

Most liberals would never understand it, but There's something very Zen about expertise in the use of firearms.

He's not Zen, but the Dalai Lama said the following,"

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."-------

[The Dalai Lama, in The Seattle Times, May 15, 2001].

52 posted on 09/20/2008 9:49:40 PM PDT by George Smiley (Palin is the real deal.)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
First of all, you need to realistically answer the questions:

  1. Why do I need to carry a gun?
  2. In what circumstances do I feel uncomfortable not having a gun?
  3. Is there anything about my daily routine that I can modify to reduce my perceived need to carry a gun?
  4. Am I prepared as a part of my daily routine to fasten my gun and holster to me prior to leaving the house?
  5. Am I prepared to spend time at the range with my carry piece shooting at least one box per week?
  6. Am I prepared to spend half an hour per week practicing combat quick draw and dry firing?
  7. Am I prepared to periodically take combat training and regularly practice the techniques?
  8. Am I prepared that once I draw the gun, I will not hesitate to use deadly force?
  9. Do I fully understand that once I pull the trigger, all the sorrow in the world will not undo what I just did?

If you still want to proceed, I am a huge fan of enclosed hammer revolvers for concealed carry. They aren't anywhere as sexy as the semi-auto's but we're talking about saving your life, not picking up chicks.

The enclosed hammer revolvers are specifically designed for concealed carry. When drawing, the smooth lines won't get snagged in your clothing and as revolvers, they will function every time.

A snub nosed revolver is generally less accurate than a longer barreled semiauto but at close range, you'll be doing point shooting so, the overall accuracy of the gun shouldn't be a factor. At close range 5 or 6 rounds of .357 mag. or .38 spl +P should be more than enough to thoroughly ruin an assailants day.

At longer distances, your shooting will be designed to prevent the pistol armed attacker from firing accurately by greatly increasing his stress level, from closing the distance and deciding to flee if he's still alive. Simultaneously, you will also be seeking the opportunity to take better cover or, to escape entirely.

Longer distances are probably where you'll fire more bullets and be faced with having to reload even though the assailant hasn't fully decided to depart the scene. So, if armed with a revolver, you'll want to carry one or two speed loaders and be well practiced at how to use them. This is where the semiautos with their higher magazine capacities come in real nice. In either case, you will want to be very adept at reloading.

Before buying, visit a lot of gun stores and gun shows. Handle a lot of guns. Ask a lot of questions. Narrow the list to just those which feel comfortable in your hand and feel comfortable the way you intend to carry. Think about the gun being cold and wet as well as your hands being cold, wet and dirty when you have to use it.

Once you have your list, research the manufactures of those guns and their reputation. Narrow the list some more if you need to. Once you have a list of guns you would be comfortable carrying, carefully consider their caliber and type of gun; revolver or semiauto.

If at the end of your analysis you still can't decide which way to go, buy both; an enclosed hammer revolver and semiauto. Over time, you'll settle on one as your primary. By having both, you'll always be prepared for a situation where you need to carry one, the other or, both. The snubby revolver can always be carried strapped to your ankle as a backup piece,

53 posted on 09/20/2008 9:49:58 PM PDT by fso301
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To: 43north; LiberalsSpendYourMoney
Most excellent advice, 43north

I get annoyed with people who make specific handgun recommendations as for model or make.

Just because my neighbor really, really likes his shoes is no reason for me to go out and buy a pair in the exact color, model and size.

54 posted on 09/20/2008 9:54:25 PM PDT by George Smiley (Palin is the real deal.)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

They make some amazing no-key gun safes designed for things like nightstand drawers or bolting to the side or bottom of the bed. touch your fingers in the right order, and you’re in. One-handed operation.

Other poster was right about lockin’ em up (and not just in something like this).

If they’re not on me or with me at the range, they’re locked up.


55 posted on 09/20/2008 10:01:50 PM PDT by George Smiley (Palin is the real deal.)
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To: George Smiley

[I get annoyed with people who make specific handgun recommendations as for model or make.]

True enough. I learned a long time ago that one must be suspicious of anything one reads in most gun mags or hears at a gun shop / range after encountering several of “the best handguns/rifles/shotguns every made” turned out to be crap. There is no substitute for “trying one on for size”.

My faorite up-close-and-personal shooter is an old Ruger Stainless Speed-Six 2.5” barrel in .357 mag with mid-range loads.

That being said, a hit with a .22LR is always more effective than a miss with anything larger.


56 posted on 09/20/2008 10:07:29 PM PDT by 43north (McCain/Palin '08 - Now That's the Ticket!!!)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney; 2ndDivisionVet
This is what I carry everywhere I go:

It's a Seecamp .32, and it fits very nicely and unobtrusively in your jeans pocket. You can stroll right into a stadium without getting a second look as they search the ladies' purses. It's a very reliable handgun, especially if you stick with the Winchester Silvertips.

If you want a gun to wear in a holster or for your car's glove compartment, go with a nice snubnose .38 revolver. Always go with a revolver for no-doubt-about-it reliability.

Also, these threads sometimes load up with people talking about "stopping power", and accuracy at 25 yards, and clip capacity, etc., etc., as if you should be prepared to fire from behind car doors or alley dumpsters in some kind of a movie-style shoot-em-up. The fact is, you want a concealed weapon so that if a bad situation suddenly jumps up out of nowhere and bites you in the ass you can get off a quick (hopefully surprise) point blank shot or two to the face or throat and then get the hell out of there as fast as you can.

Good luck!
LH

57 posted on 09/20/2008 10:10:19 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

The right firearm is the one you like and is big enough to stop a bad guy. I would suggest at a minimum a 9mm but preferably a 45 ACP. Find a local gun dealer and tell him that you want to fire different weapons to see which one you like. When you like something buy it if it is a model and brand with a good record of reliability.

Then practice practice and practice some more.

Refuse to attend a gun fight unless the caliber of your weapon begins with the number 4 or larger.


58 posted on 09/20/2008 10:12:54 PM PDT by cpdiii (roughneck, oilfield trash and proud of it, geologist, pilot, pharmacist, iconoclast.)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
I see what you are saying about not letting guns fall into the wrong hands, but what good will my gun locked in a gun safe do me if someone were to break into my house? I’d much rather have the gun in my nightstand drawer.

When you come home in the evening, take the shotgun with 18 inch barrel and pistol grip stock out of the safe, load it with five rounds of #6 shot and place it on the nightstand. Some here will protest the use of #6 but if you can see him, #6 at close quarters will put anyone down without overpenetrating into your neighbors unit. Even in my own home, I wouldn't go larger than #4 shot.

In close quarters, a shotgun has a powerful psychological effect. Just the sound of a shotgun shell being chambered will cause most pistol armed men in another room to flee.

When you wake up in the morning, unload the shotgun and return it to the safe for the day. Take your pistol and have it on you and ready for use prior to walking out the front door.

59 posted on 09/20/2008 10:22:35 PM PDT by fso301
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To: fso301

I have a Kel-Tec P-32 which is easily concealed in your pockets for people who have concealed carry permits. I believe that 39 states now honor other states concealed carry. People who have been in the military are not required to pass a test in FL.


60 posted on 09/20/2008 10:42:27 PM PDT by yorkie01
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

Thanks for posting this question. I will keep the answers for later reference as well.


61 posted on 09/20/2008 10:44:30 PM PDT by bajabaja
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To: yorkie01
I have a Kel-Tec P-32 which is easily concealed in your pockets for people who have concealed carry permits. I believe that 39 states now honor other states concealed carry. People who have been in the military are not required to pass a test in FL.

Nice little gun but I still believe that for defensive carry use, an enclosed hammer revolver is the way to go. Especially in cold areas, you can be walking along holding the gun in the pocket of your overcoat. Should you fire it from inside your coat pocket, you don't have to worry about the slide closing on cloathing and fouling the gun.

62 posted on 09/20/2008 10:50:55 PM PDT by fso301
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

I think every sane American should. It is not for the fact of having more guns on the street but rather for the confidence it gives people that have the ability to defend themselves. They no longer are push overs and are more willing to take a stand on everything from individual rights, responsibilities as well as being more likely to assist others who have been attacked or injured.

When I got my conceal license I noticed that I actually carried a weapon less often and felt more self assured than I did before. Others have told me the same thing.


63 posted on 09/20/2008 10:56:30 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gulch.)
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To: fso301
you fire it from inside your coat pocket, you don't have to worry about the slide closing on cloathing and fouling the gun.

I guess that's one way to stay warm.

64 posted on 09/20/2008 11:01:01 PM PDT by relee ('Till the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away)
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To: Hazwaste; forYourChildrenVote4Bush
Is it true that guns are carried in plain view???

Believe it or not, open carry of handguns in Texas is illegal. Only legal carry option for handguns on your person is licensed concealed carry.

Arizona is open carry. We also have plenty of sun and beach extends throughout most of the state - just no water.

65 posted on 09/20/2008 11:13:42 PM PDT by jim-x (God help America survive its enemies within.)
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To: forYourChildrenVote4Bush
Is it true that guns are carried in plain view???

In Arizona it's legal to openly carry. No permit, or license, necessary....as it should be.

66 posted on 09/20/2008 11:34:20 PM PDT by Mogollon ($5/gal Gas....Kick the Jacka$$es Out!)
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To: fso301

When talking revolvers I like and own several Rugers. The SP line are excellent but heavier than the lightweight S&W lineup. I also carry with me my Sig P6 which is a fine weapon with the right load. I picked her up for under $300 at Centerfire systems here in KY.

I really like this topic.


67 posted on 09/20/2008 11:42:57 PM PDT by jacksonstate
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To: pdq

It’s nice that he’s also good friends with the judge.


68 posted on 09/21/2008 1:25:53 AM PDT by nygoose
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
Personally I really like my Sig p-239. A polymer gun, of which there are many available, (I'm thinking Glock, Springfield, S&W) might be a tad lighter.

In general though, while it's good to think through your gun purchase, I think it's also good to find the gun that fits you. And you probably won't get it right the first time out. You're not buying your gun; you're buying your first gun.

I'm more and more favoring 9 mm, though I still shoot 357 SIG. A well placed nine will do the job, and two well placed nines will do it even better, and nines are fun to shoot.

Read, converse, oh, and get at least a small gun safe. When you go on vacation to some place that doesn't respect the 2nd Amendment, a safe is nice to have.

69 posted on 09/21/2008 2:48:56 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
I'm strongly considering buying a handgun to carry concealed. Live in Upstate NY

I just got my pistol permit in Warren County (upstate).

If I'm not mistaken, NYS no longer issues concealed carry permits.

Mine is stamped with the words "It is valid only for hunting or target shooting and transporting a weapon therefore."

The law, it seems to me, is ambiguous and open to interpretation.

Let me know how you do...

We bought a S&W model 686 357 Magnum for our first gun.


70 posted on 09/21/2008 5:52:35 AM PDT by andyandval
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

If it looks like the radical marxist is about to be elected, I’ll be buying one too!


71 posted on 09/21/2008 6:25:58 AM PDT by BooksForTheRight.com (Fight liberal lies with knowledge. Read conservative books and articles.)
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To: andyandval

Erie County here. People here are a bit more fascist than in counties like Warren. Without my connection, I don’t think I would be able to get an unrestricted permit (ie, one not restricted to only target and hunting). I’m surprised that Warren County, being a rural county, was not willing to give you an unrestricted permit. I have many friends in the North Country in St. Lawrence County, and they had no problems getting their permits unrestricted. The more urban Upstate counties(ie Erie, Onondaga, Monroe) seem to give you more crap about an unrestricted permit.

Thanks to everyone! I will reply more later


72 posted on 09/21/2008 11:03:56 AM PDT by LiberalsSpendYourMoney (Barry, you're more racist than 99% of Americans. And you're ugly.)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney

Consider the Sig Sauer P232. I like its SA/DA style. Smaller caliber, but still very effective, and it has almost all of the requirements you've listed. Rides very nicely in a Cross Breed Super Tuck Holster. Doesn't print at all.

73 posted on 09/21/2008 11:24:00 AM PDT by China Clipper (My favorite animal is whatever is on my plate at that time)
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To: LiberalsSpendYourMoney
I mentioned this last night to another poster but forgot to copy you on it.

Your assailant will not shout out to you from 50 yards away to prepare yourself because he intends to approach you, rob and commit greivous bodily harm to you. Were this the case, I would recommend a very different type of gun. My advice to you has been based on an assumption that from a distance, your assailant will appear unremarkable. It will not be until your assailant is in close quarters that you realize you are in a life or death situation.

So, a few other points about the benefits of an encosed hammer (hamerless) revolver is that when wearing a raincoat or overcoat, you can have your hand on the pistol while in the coat pocket or even pants pocket (if you don't wear tight pants). You will appear perfectly normal walking in this manner.

If the hammerless revoler is in your coat pocket, you can even fire your first and subsequent shots from within the pocket without fear of fouling. Withdrawing the gun from your pocket for more shots or reloading will be as smooth of an operation as withdrawing just your hand.

This technique is more problematic with an exposed hammer revolver because the hammer can become fouled in your clothing causing it to fail to fire even the first round.

Quickly withdrawing an exposed hammer revolver can be problematic because the hammer tends to snag on clothing.

Firing from the coat pocket is more risky with a semiauto because if held in your coat pocket and the hammer is exposed, when you pull the trigger, clothing may interfere with the hammer and the gun won't fire. Not good. Then, when you attempt to withdraw the gun from your coat pocket, you may not be able to because the hammer is closed and snagged on your clothing. Not a fun situation to find yourself in at all.

Assuming you have an enclosed hammer semiauto, you can fire the first shot from within your coat pocket and be reasonably confident that the gun will fire. You can never have the same confidence in your semiauto firing as your revolver. Another problem is that as the slide cycles on your enclosed hammer semiauto, the spent cartridge may be prevented from ejecting by your clothing resulting in the slide closing on the spent cartridge resulting in the gun being inoperable until you withdraw it and manually clear the jam. Again, not a happy situation to find yourself in. With the slide not closed, the gun may also snag on your clothing as you attempt to withdraw it.

Another risk is that you fire the first shot from within your coat pocket, the empty shell safely ejects but the slide closes on your clothing. Once again, you will have to withdraw the gun and manually clear the condition before making another shot. Not something you want to be doing in a life or death situation.

Yet another thing to be concerned with is that when firing a semiauto from odd angles such as within a coat pocket, the slide opens with considerable force and if your hand or wrist is in the way, ouch! They can get torn up pretty badly.

Keep in mind, all of what I have mentioned is with defensive use in mind when the other person(s) have the jump on you such as seemingly just another pedestrian on a nighttime sidewalk who suddenly turns into an armed assailant. Your ability to react quickly and instinctively will determine the outcome. If in your instantaneous analysis you decide to use your gun, you cannot accept any risk that the gun will not function properly. This is again why I strongy urge you to consider an enclosed hammer revolver as a defensive carry gun.

Finally, I see from your profile that you are Jewish. Given the history of persecution suffered by your fine people, no Jew should be unarmed and no Jew should be untrained in the use of arms. What a nasty surprise the Nazi Einsatzkommando's would have gotten had every Jew carried just a pocket pistol.

The saying "Never again" used by Jews in reference to the Holocaust is a similar frame of mind our founding fathers were in when they penned the 2nd Amendment. It reflects their understanding that predators and tyrants only attack the weak. But of course, you know all of this which is why you are preparing yourself.

Congratulations. Let us know what you finally decide on. This may be your first purchase but it probably won't be your last. We look forward to answering your questions down the road about the best target rifle to get and the best sporting clays shotgun and the best reloading equipment etc, etc, etc.

74 posted on 09/21/2008 12:50:24 PM PDT by fso301
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To: forYourChildrenVote4Bush
Is it true that guns are carried in plain view???

No, in Texas you have to carry concealed. You can, however, carry in Church unless they have a sign posted at the door (in which case it's probably a church you shouldn't be going to, anyway.)

75 posted on 09/21/2008 7:04:13 PM PDT by PAR35
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