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Young Earth Creationist Attack on the New Texas Earth and Space Science Course
Texas Citizens for Science ^ | January 15, 2009 | Steven Schafersman, Ph.D.

Posted on 01/19/2009 9:42:35 PM PST by Coyoteman

The new Earth and Space Science (ESS) course standards (and all other science course standards) will be up for approval before the State Board of Education (SBOE) during January 21-23. Some SBOE members--the seven who are Young Earth Creationists (YECs)--will attempt to make changes to the ESS standards in ways that will damage the scientific integrity and accuracy of the course. In particular, these SBOE members will try to negatively modify or delete the standards that require students to understand the following topics that deal with scientific topics they consider controversial: age of the Earth and universe, radiometric dating, evolution of fossil life, and the origin of life by abiotic chemical processes. These topics are the ones that YECs consider to be controversial; indeed, they are obsessed with them to the exclusion of everything else.

Continues...

(Excerpt) Read more at texscience.org ...


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: evolution
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Was The Enlightenment in vain?
1 posted on 01/19/2009 9:42:36 PM PST by Coyoteman
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To: Coyoteman

Get ready for the Flat Earth geology class and the geocentric astronomy class.

The good news for students is that they get to watch the Flintstones in biology class.


2 posted on 01/19/2009 9:48:59 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at I00 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: Coyoteman
There will no doubt be hundreds of inaccuracies in the textbooks anyways. Such as Global Warming is real, and manmade and WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE IF OBAMA FIX IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Public schools should not exist

3 posted on 01/19/2009 9:49:10 PM PST by GeronL (DAY 1, YEAR 0 - The first day of the rest of our lives. The first day of the Oministration.)
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To: trumandogz; Coyoteman
This is great.

On another note, after chemistry class, we're going to give equal time to alchemy.

Then, after astronomy class, we're going to give equal time to astrology to demonstrate the 'weaknesses' of astronomy.

4 posted on 01/19/2009 9:52:57 PM PST by GunRunner
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To: GeronL
if Obama can't fix it... lol

There is little accuracy in these textbooks anyway

5 posted on 01/19/2009 9:53:42 PM PST by GeronL (DAY 1, YEAR 0 - The first day of the rest of our lives. The first day of the Oministration.)
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To: Coyoteman
For some reason many reject any insight into the miraculous processed God used to introduce life into a dynamic world, clinging instead to the limited oral traditions originating in languages completely incapable of expressing any scientific concepts.
6 posted on 01/19/2009 9:54:48 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: GunRunner
On another note, after chemistry class, we're going to give equal time to alchemy.

Then, after astronomy class, we're going to give equal time to astrology to demonstrate the 'weaknesses' of astronomy.

They want their religious beliefs taught in these classes!

And that's because they can't get them taught instead of science classes. But they're working on it.

7 posted on 01/19/2009 9:56:02 PM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman
Great. And the media will try and link these nuts to the rest of us Christians. Then by extension conservatives and the GOP.

Some people will read whatever they want to into scripture. Is there any GOP official who will renounce these nuts? At the same time, take those who obsess over who is smoking what, who is sleeping with who, and those who expand the definition of being pro-life beyond being in favor of giving every child in the womb a chance at life, with them.

8 posted on 01/19/2009 9:58:27 PM PST by MovementConservative (Oregon Ducks 42, Oklahoma St. Cowboys 31)
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To: Coyoteman
My solution to this question would be to have each parent on the first day of the first grade is to fill out a card where the parent(s) can select one of two options.

1. Teach my child throughout his 12 years of public education science based on the Young Earth Creationist Theory.

2. Teach my child throughout his 12 years of public education science based on the scientific method.

9 posted on 01/19/2009 10:03:40 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at I00 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: Coyoteman

Just ram it down their throats and make them feel like a fool if they question anything they are taught. That’s what good teaching is all about, right?


10 posted on 01/19/2009 10:17:00 PM PST by smokingfrog (Never underestimate the influence of a wife who bitch-slaps her husband in public.)
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To: Coyoteman

This is crap. Of course these people are wackos but you know what— when they something stupid the left and the media love to pile on them like they’re morons.

But they’re not so diff’t from Algore, NBC, and the left with their global warming “science”.


11 posted on 01/19/2009 10:18:03 PM PST by exist
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To: MovementConservative
Precisely what do you mean by this statement?

and those who expand the definition of being pro-life beyond being in favor of giving every child in the womb a chance at life

12 posted on 01/19/2009 10:31:20 PM PST by refreshed
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To: Coyoteman
Charles Johnson at Little Green Footballs posted a nice Darwin quote the other day:
It has often and confidently been asserted, that man’s origin can never be known: Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.

— Charles Darwin


13 posted on 01/19/2009 10:31:20 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored
It has often and confidently been asserted, that man’s origin can never be known: Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. — Charles Darwin

Here are a couple of quotes for you:

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

By the way, how confident are you in Darwinian evolution being the way everything came about? So confident that a dissenting voice might upset the whole apple cart?

14 posted on 01/19/2009 10:41:17 PM PST by refreshed
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To: Coyoteman

I think that the problem of teaching pseudoscience or superstition in science classes is less than the problem of simply not teaching key science. Take, for instance, evolution. Penn State Professor Michael Berkman finds that a majority of biology teachers either mention evolution for 2 hours max in a year’s classwork, or not at all. For my own part, I had three years of biology in high school and never heard mention of evolution. They didn’t give us creationist stuff, either: the teachers just didn’t talk about the origin of life or species at all. The result was that high school biology was my least favorite science: it was all just a lot of unorganized facts: frog / pig / cat muscles to memorize thoughtlessly. Loved physics and my 2 years of chemistry.

Also: if you or anyone else has a ping list for the pro-science side, would you kindly add me? I appreciate these posts.


15 posted on 01/19/2009 11:10:28 PM PST by Mogwai ("Chawlie, that huwt!")
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To: refreshed

Those who expand the definition of being pro-life beyond being in favor of giving every child in the womb a chance at life are akin to the nuts who want to intrude on science education. Having them around gives the MSM a chance to link the conservatives and Christians to them. They go too far but are convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong.


16 posted on 01/19/2009 11:11:27 PM PST by MovementConservative (Oregon Ducks 42, Oklahoma St. Cowboys 31)
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To: refreshed

As we currently see things, there would appear to be no absolute final answers in empirical science, and any scientist who deserves the name will always admit the possibility that future evidence might force the modification of current views. With that said, Darwinian evolution (with suitable additions and modifications as biologists deem necessary) is our current best idea of what our planet’s biome has undergone over the last several billion years. We’re not yet able to give a persuasive and evidentially supported account of how life first got started, but that’s what makes continued exploration interesting: there are still things to try to find out.


17 posted on 01/19/2009 11:18:38 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: Coyoteman

It is very difficult to wend one’s way between Creationists and climate warmists:

“Left out are rocks and minerals, ... geologic periods, ... weather, ... galaxies and ... stars, …. Instead, we included a great deal about climate and climate change, … energy resources, …, fossil fuels, .. Emphasized … space imagery and … GPS, personal computers, and the Internet. … (meteorologists probably won’t like it, but climatologists will love it!).”

Keep in mind taxpayers are funding this.


18 posted on 01/19/2009 11:27:21 PM PST by Bhoy
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To: Coyoteman

The percentage of families home schooling their children will incress.

The percentage of families sending their children to church schools will increase.


19 posted on 01/19/2009 11:47:53 PM PST by John Leland 1789
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To: refreshed
By the way, how confident are you in Darwinian evolution being the way everything came about?

I am as confident in Darwin as I am in Newton as the thinker whose theories best explain the available evidence. Both have seen their work added to and modified, though not rejected outright, by new-found evidence and improved observation.

So confident that a dissenting voice might upset the whole apple cart?

No one is closing churches. There are no SWAT teams massing outside the Discovery Institute. Flat Earthers, Young Earth creationists, UFOlogists, all are welcome to spin their hypotheses. They do not have a right to promote them in public schools.

If you want to change the scientific consensus, the place to start is in science -- in the lab, not the classroom. The push to get creationism/ID into high school biology is like trying to teach kids in driver's ed how to drive a hydrogen fuel cell car instead of focusing on building one.

20 posted on 01/19/2009 11:52:47 PM PST by ReignOfError
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To: MovementConservative

Forget Albatross, Young Earth Creationism is straight-up the noose being used to string-up political conservatism to the entire (<30) web-generation. Crap guilt-by-association or no, if political conservatives do not rally together to disassociate themselves from these nuts soon (ideally before the next election), there is going to exist an entire generation in this country who associates ANY Republican, no matter how noble, with Young-Earth Creationist Anti-Rationalism.


21 posted on 01/19/2009 11:56:48 PM PST by Ozymandi
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To: All

The nutcase Steven Schafersman is just another Big Government Atheist, Hyper-Humanist who worships Big Government Public Schools directed top-down by the far left NEA.


22 posted on 01/20/2009 12:06:08 AM PST by Old Landmarks (No fear of man, none!)
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Irony in perspective: Coyoteman whines to Jim about all those 'anti-science kooks' (aka creationists) and gets slapped down..
23 posted on 01/20/2009 12:09:35 AM PST by Fichori (I believe in a Woman's right to choose, even if she hasn't been born yet.)
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To: Coyoteman

I wonder how many Republicans actually want to stop the teaching of evolution.


24 posted on 01/20/2009 12:12:15 AM PST by TChad
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To: Coyoteman

I think these arguments among Conservatives are silly. They are not productive in any way that I can see other than to divide. Let the parent decide what they want their child taught or not taught. It is just that simple.

My thinking is that evolution theory is rather meaningless to the bottom line so what a student knows or doesn’t know about it will not matter. I think many people are turned off because much of this complex theory is guesstimating and active imagination, that is, those parts which the average person thinks of as Evolution. In the end, to me, it just doesn’t matter. Here are the some of the greatest scientific discoveries and not one hangs on evolution theory save one; The Origin of Species: http://encarta.msn.com/column_scientificdiscoveries_tamimhome/10_Great_Scientific_Discoveries.html


25 posted on 01/20/2009 12:44:43 AM PST by WildcatClan (Obama is to the Presidency as Basquiat is to art.)
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To: trumandogz
My solution to this question would be to have each parent on the first day of the first grade is to fill out a card where the parent(s) can select one of two options.

1. Teach my child throughout his 12 years of public education science based on the Young Earth Creationist Theory.

2. Teach my child throughout his 12 years of public education science based on the scientific method.

There is no young earth creationist theory--that's the problem. There is only young earth creationist belief.

And that belief is not subject to discovery or modification via evidence, as would be the case in science. Not surprising, because that belief is not based on evidence!

That is why it is a belief instead of a part of science. And that's why your belief is not appropriately taught as a part of science.

26 posted on 01/20/2009 2:55:38 AM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Fichori
Can't argue the issue, but have to attack me personally?

I guess that's all you got, eh?.

27 posted on 01/20/2009 2:58:17 AM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman
For Schafersman, it was.

This is the same guy who continues to hold that the Shroud of Turin is a medieval artifact, denying the overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary from multiple disciplines (remember, "confidence comes from consilience").

And it is people like Schafersman who will be leading the charge to link "conservatives" to "anti science irrationalists" -- you know, like Matt Damon's comments about Sarah Palin.

But the îber-libertarian types seem to think that almost anything else a person things or does, is irrelevant to public office -- only religious faith need disqualify them.

Go figure.

Cheers!

28 posted on 01/20/2009 3:45:46 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers
This is the same guy who continues to hold that the Shroud of Turin is a medieval artifact, denying the overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary from multiple disciplines

1. The best explanation of the evidence is that it is a medieval artifact

2. "the overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary" is that put by Turinfers who disgree on their own explanations. (Much like JFK Assassinationists or UFOlogists - which actually puts them below The School of Anthropomorphic Global Warming on the credibility scale - true story)

29 posted on 01/20/2009 5:20:03 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel - Horace Walpole)
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To: Coyoteman

“Was The Enlightenment in vain?”

IMO - Young Earth Creationism and Intelligent Design are forms of fundamentalist Protestant apologetics. The idea that the Enlightenment is the source of modern science originated from Protestant apologetics. So I’d say the answer to your question is no.

Does anyone have the pro-science ping list PatrickHenry used to have?


30 posted on 01/20/2009 6:02:55 AM PST by Varda
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To: MovementConservative

Yes the media will link this to the rest of us with glee. Science textbook editors would do well to ally with all the Christian (and others) denominations who don’t have a problem with science. Unfortunately, I doubt they do that. They’d have to give up the humans are evil meme (overpopulation, global warming, etc)


31 posted on 01/20/2009 6:16:31 AM PST by Varda
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To: Coyoteman

The problem is that if such baboomery is adopted in Texas, it will be in all the nation’s text books. Plus, the company that evaluates textbooks is run by an elderly YEC, biblical literalist who has no problem injecting his religious views into his evaluations. If this goes through, Texas will become one fucked up state with respect to education. And all in the name of keeping kids stupid for the sake of a minority deviation from Christianity and Islam.


32 posted on 01/20/2009 7:11:21 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what an Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: doc30

It will be interesting to see this play out in court. Perhaps this time it will get to an appeals court and establish a national precedent.


33 posted on 01/20/2009 7:52:26 AM PST by js1138
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To: js1138

Texas has a lot of sane, rational people. A lot of defense contractors, semi-conductor companies, aerospace as well as a big petrochemical industry. I’m sure the people at these places, like the Johnson space center, are going to love having their kids exposed to YEC crap that contradicts what their parents do for a living. And that’s on top of some fairly prominent research universities, too.

It would be even more interesting if this goes through and the Texas high schools lose accredation with respect to their diplomas being valid for admittance to colleges and universities. Some California Christian high schools got hit with that a few years ago and that was over teaching YEC creationism and warping science to fit their religious superstitions. Teach kids garbage and they won’t be able to handle science majors in college without a good brain bleaching.


34 posted on 01/20/2009 8:09:21 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what an Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: doc30
It would be even more interesting if this goes through and the Texas high schools lose accreditation with respect to their diplomas being valid for admittance to colleges and universities.

It could happen. The public schools in my home town were disaccredited -- the main reason I was sent to a private school.

California universities have a list of textbooks that are not approved for credit. You might get admitted to the university, but have to take a remedial course to make up for a high school class taught from a creationist text.

At any rate, textbooks having creationist materials will be banned by the courts, and I don't think any reputable publisher will risk the humiliation. There could even be a backlash in which publishers use "banned in Texas" as a selling point.

35 posted on 01/20/2009 8:18:29 AM PST by js1138
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Why Creation is important to Conservatives: Jim Robinson on Evolution, Creation, and the Constitution.
36 posted on 01/20/2009 10:09:16 AM PST by Fichori (I believe in a Woman's right to choose, even if she hasn't been born yet.)
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To: tpanther; metmom; valkyry1; Mr. Silverback
“Can't argue the issue, but have to attack me personally?

I guess that's all you got, eh?.”
--Coyoteman

Interesting. (especially considering the fact that all I did was post a link to another thread...)

The feller who is so afraid of being asked about his stance on abortion that he asked me to not post to him has posted to me!

So is this the Evolutionists new tactic?

Ask everyone who does not agree with them to not post to them so nobody can challenged their absurd claims?


My oh my, the Beagle must be up on a reef!
37 posted on 01/20/2009 10:34:08 AM PST by Fichori (I believe in a Woman's right to choose, even if she hasn't been born yet.)
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To: Fichori; Mr. Silverback

And the question on his stance is it the job of science to eradicate religion


38 posted on 01/20/2009 10:42:26 AM PST by valkyry1
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To: Coyoteman

Uh-huh...any thinking person understands that evolutionists project. That’s what you do, because most creationists I see are for teaching BOTH, and as I’ve said the facts (that would be the multiple lawsuits excluding anything other than the cult of evolution), speak for themselves.

You’ve left your dishonest self hanging out here like a big fat sore thumb again coytoteman.


39 posted on 01/20/2009 10:56:28 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: js1138; metmom; MrB; valkyry1; Fichori; Ethan Clive Osgoode

...creationist materials will be banned by the courts...


Josef Goebbels would be so proud!

yup...science enforced by the courts...typical liberalism.


40 posted on 01/20/2009 11:09:57 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: doc30; metmom

Alot of sane rational people? The vast majority of sane rational people understand the failed godless liberal NEA is exactly that...failed. They get an F.

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2006/03/americans_overwhelmingly_suppo.html

Headline: “Americans Overwhelmingly Support Teaching Scientific Challenges to Darwinian Evolution, Zogby Poll Shows” From March 2006.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=719

**********************************************************
Free Republic Poll on Evolution
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1706571/posts?page=63#63

**********************************************************
Creationism makes a comeback in US
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1856224/posts

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Teaching creation and evolution in schools
Solid research reveals American beliefs
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v13/i2/teaching.asp

************************************************************
Survey Finds Support Is Strong For Teaching 2 Origin Theories
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B07E4D9143BF932A25750C0A9669C8B63

************************************************************
Public Divided on Origins of Life
http://people-press.org/report/254/religion-a-strength-and-weakness-for-both-parties

************************************************************
Americans Believe in Jesus, Poll Says (creation poll results included)
http://derekgulbranson.com/2005/01/17/americans-believe-in-jesus/


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41 posted on 01/20/2009 11:20:00 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: js1138; metmom

It will be interesting to see this play out in court. Perhaps this time it will get to an appeals court and establish a national precedent.


Sure why not...now that you’ve got a hypocrat congress and president in place to continue bashing any and all things Christan, why not?

Good a time as any.


42 posted on 01/20/2009 11:21:48 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: doc30; metmom
If this goes through, Texas will become one fucked up state with respect to education.

Newsflash....the godless liberal NEA has already undermined our public education, and they socialize kids, they don't educate them.

As a matter of fact, before the godless liberal NEA stomped God out of science class, science flourished, as did our schools.

43 posted on 01/20/2009 11:25:36 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther
science enforced by the courts...typical liberalism

Worldview enforced by courts, and by the threat of legal violence for non-compliance - THAT'S typical liberalism.

44 posted on 01/20/2009 11:34:08 AM PST by MrB (The 0bamanation: Marxism, Infanticide, Appeasement, Depression, Thuggery, and Censorship)
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To: WildcatClan

precisely...parents and students are intelligent enough to reject that which doesn’t make sense.

Unfortunately there’s the theory of evolution and the NEA cult of evolution demanded of public screwels.

It’s an open ended debate that will never be conclusively answered scientifically, but each and every criticism of evolution is seen as a religious assault on their cult.


45 posted on 01/20/2009 11:37:01 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: Fichori
Fich, why are you continuing to bring this up?

Does everybody who posts here have to agree with JimRob on every issue? Does JimRob's opinion on scientific matters mean they are more credible?

I don't see the point you're making, and the 20 point type makes it look childish.

46 posted on 01/20/2009 11:40:29 AM PST by GunRunner
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To: Bhoy; metmom

It is very difficult to wend one’s way between Creationists and climate warmists:


No it’s not....algoreacle’s godless liberal hot air cult more closely resembles that of the godless cult of the NEA model of science and evolution.


47 posted on 01/20/2009 11:46:18 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: refreshed; metmom

So confident that a dissenting voice might upset the whole apple cart?


Yup, the whole idea of peer review is a joke because every threat to evolution, every crticism is attacked as a “religious assault on science, theocracy, inquistion, dark ages, a threat to enlightenment, burinings at the stake”...etc.

and the only people incapable of recognizing this are the evo-cultists themselves.


48 posted on 01/20/2009 11:49:27 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: smokingfrog

Just ram it down their throats and make them feel like a fool if they question anything they are taught. That’s what good teaching is all about, right?


That’s the godless liberal NEA way.


49 posted on 01/20/2009 11:52:43 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther

.....Just ram it down their throats .....

That’s how they became Creos. constant indoctrination


50 posted on 01/20/2009 11:57:52 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . The original point of America was not to be Europe)
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