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Don’t Call it “Darwinism” [religiously defended as "science" by Godless Darwinists]
springerlink ^ | 16 January 2009 | Eugenie C. Scott and Glenn Branch

Posted on 01/28/2009 11:36:17 AM PST by Coyoteman

We will see and hear the term “Darwinism” a lot during 2009, a year during which scientists, teachers, and others who delight in the accomplishments of modern biology will commemorate the 200th anniversary of Darwin’s birth and the 150th anniversary of the publication of On the Origin of Species. But what does “Darwinism” mean? And how is it used? At best, the phrase is ambiguous and misleading about science. At worst, its use echoes a creationist strategy to demonize evolution.

snip...

In summary, then, “Darwinism” is an ambiguous term that impairs communication even about Darwin’s own ideas. It fails to convey the full panoply of modern evolutionary biology accurately, and it fosters the inaccurate perception that the field stagnated for 150 years after Darwin’s day. Moreover, creationists use “Darwinism” to frame evolutionary biology as an ism or ideology, and the public understanding of evolution and science suffers as a result. True, in science, we do not shape our research because of what creationists claim about our subject matter. But when we are in the classroom or otherwise dealing with the public understanding of science, it is entirely appropriate to consider whether what we say may be misunderstood. We cannot expect to change preconceptions if we are not willing to avoid exacerbating them. A first step is eschewing the careless use of “Darwinism.”

(Excerpt) Read more at springerlink.com ...


TOPICS: Education; Science
KEYWORDS: belongsinreligion; intelligentdesign; notasciencetopic; oldearthspeculation; piltdownman; propellerbeanie; spammer; toe
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To: CE2949BB
Then stay off of them, or learn to be less snarky.

You could try beginning by talking to people at an elementary level and leading them through what evolution is really saying, and some of the elementary science.

If you did it carefully enough, you might see how and why their objections originated -- enough that you could actually discuss the subject with *mutual* respect.

That'd be better than a LOT of flamewars.

Oh, for the nonce -- what is your educational background, since you implicitly seem to place undue stress on this area when challenging others?

Cheers!

351 posted on 01/28/2009 9:19:56 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Just mythoughts

It’s interesting because I see differing deflations everyday in my workplaces, I have many being a hospice nurse.

So funny how the annointed one still speaks so eloquently about them having to be patient now that he’s been annointed isn’t it? Perhaps as much as his entire first term now.

Perhaps we can chart a graph with eloquence and patience and see an emerging relationship?

Trouble is...as the one idiot put it, “I won’t have to worry about making my car payments, putting gas in my car, paying for groceries...” all those things, one week in, are still right there staring her right in the face! And 4 years in...heaven forbid 8...and all that noise and war from overseas is still there...people getting laid off...bills still there...

the fall is going to be so hard as to be felt for several future generations and throughout all family trees.

Meanwhile, I’m standning in line at the grocery store, sure to interject pie into every public converstaion in small talk as possible.

I’ve never been so in love with the word pie in my 48 years...in fact, I’m looking to get me some cherry pie at publix Friday after work just so I can go on about GM pie, DC pie, Smithsonian pie, and of course I like cherry pie, that helps.

Perhaps we really should consider investing in popcorn (while eating pie) because with Reid, Pelosi and zero in charge...there’s about to be some real entertainment going on!


352 posted on 01/28/2009 9:22:47 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: wendy1946

Now there's a job I could enjoy!
353 posted on 01/28/2009 9:23:59 PM PST by Fichori (I believe in a Woman's right to choose, even if she hasn't been born yet.)
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To: tpanther
I wouldn’t give him that . . .

Contrary to popular belief [grin], I did not come onto this thread for a fight. I came to find something to my satisfaction and to the satisfaction of any others who have eyes to see.

354 posted on 01/28/2009 9:26:27 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: metmom
If you're willing to have the government dictate religion, then I guess FR isn't the place for you.

I do not want the government to promote religion at all, in any way.

Is that "suppressing religion"?

355 posted on 01/28/2009 9:26:45 PM PST by CE2949BB (Fight.)
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To: grey_whiskers
Most elementary- and secondary-level teachers don't possess that knowledge, and certainly the students don't.

No argument from me there.

Virtually all the high school students I've asked say that they spend a couple days on evolution only in 10th grade Bio.

If the evolutionists argue against the teaching of creation and religion in schools because it is likely to not be taught *properly*, then I fail to see why they would think that something like the ToE could not only be addressed adequately in the time frame most public schools give it, but also by the (more likely than not), underqualified public school teachers.

They expect us to believe that the public schools are incompetent in all areas EXCEPT when it comes to teaching science and evolution, even when the US ranks down near the bottom compared to the rest of the world academically, but especially in science and math.

And they expect us to believe that with public schools track record that they can teach this ONE area properly to the point of having it mandating through judicial fiat?

The inconsistency of that position is another reason that I don't believe that it's *just about science* rather than control.

356 posted on 01/28/2009 9:28:12 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: tacticalogic
That qualifies you among the survivors.

If that’s as far as you can see, then that’s as far as you can see.

357 posted on 01/28/2009 9:28:26 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: Sam's Army
“Ever seen those words around these parts, Coyoteman? ”
He's as willey as a brick, subtle as a keg of gunpowder, and about as smart as, well...


358 posted on 01/28/2009 9:29:08 PM PST by Fichori (I believe in a Woman's right to choose, even if she hasn't been born yet.)
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To: tpanther
Meanwhile, I’m standning in line at the grocery store, sure to interject pie into every public converstaion in small talk as possible.

I’ve never been so in love with the word pie in my 48 years...in fact, I’m looking to get me some cherry pie at publix Friday after work just so I can go on about GM pie, DC pie, Smithsonian pie, and of course I like cherry pie, that helps.

Now you are getting me into a pie-baking mood! Apple would be good. Or boysenberry (I have canned berries).

359 posted on 01/28/2009 9:30:48 PM PST by thecodont
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To: CE2949BB
Here, read this.

Now go to the Sorbonne and fight this great injustice of state funding of religion.

Or (if you have a shred of balls or intellectual honesty) go do the same in Islamabad or Iran...

(Hint: Christians don't have to go in person, tho' they have suffered many more martyrdoms than the atheists, who mainly participate in circle-jerks among friendly University types, rather than being speared to death). Christians believe in action at a distance. It's called "Prayer".

Cheers!

360 posted on 01/28/2009 9:31:04 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Gumlegs
Is the author of this piece an atheist, a Satanist, anti-god, or in some other way unfit to associate with the posters at FR?

Don't lump the rest of us in with whatever Freeper threw that Satanism remark out. If you feel like you get to paint every one of us who doesn't buy into "goo to you" with the same broad brush, you're no better than the guy you're criticizing.

361 posted on 01/28/2009 9:32:36 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: grey_whiskers
Or (if you have a shred of balls or intellectual honesty) go do the same in Islamabad or Iran...

I don't care about those countries. I am an American and I care about America.

Christian, Muslim... makes little difference. I don't want the State promoting any religion.

I'm still waiting for MetMom to tell me if that is suppressing religion.

362 posted on 01/28/2009 9:33:29 PM PST by CE2949BB (Fight.)
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To: CE2949BB
I do not want the government to promote religion at all, in any way. Is that "suppressing religion"?

Define religion. Whatever one places their trust, belief, and work to and for can be a religion. Darwinism is a religion and the government promotes it using their so called scientific methodology as instruction manual.

363 posted on 01/28/2009 9:34:18 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Gumlegs

Sadly the irony might be lost on most...

364 posted on 01/28/2009 9:35:55 PM PST by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: metmom; wagglebee
That'll be a good question to keep in mind should the situation ever arise. But until we have a *THEORY* that is *TRUE*, it'll just have to sit on the back burner.

Don't forget that truth is a word best avoided in science so science can't declare that something is true.

I was not addressing the question to you. If I had, I would have been sure not to use the word "true," because I know you like to play coy little games with the different definitions of "truth," and I would have avoided giving you another opportunity to do that.

I addressed the question to wagglebee, who in an earlier post wrote, "I’ve made few statements regarding my opinion of the theory of evolution. In the end, it is either true or it is false and NO AMOUNT of debate can change that." That indicated to me that he was holding open the possibility that it was true (his word), so I wondered what he thought we should do if it was true AND had inspired evil deeds.

You're welcome to answer the question as a hypothetical, if you wish. Subsitute "well-founded" or "accurate" for "true," if that makes it easier.

365 posted on 01/28/2009 9:40:55 PM PST by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Just mythoughts; metmom; All

Semantic word games aren’t what I’m looking for. Save it. I’m waiting for MetMom to tell me if I’m suppressing religion.


366 posted on 01/28/2009 9:41:04 PM PST by CE2949BB (Fight.)
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To: metmom; CE2949BB
The inconsistency of that position is another reason that I don't believe that it's *just about science* rather than control.

It's difficult to address this properly, since Gramsci's techniques *work* -- for both sides.

If you get people into a particular mindset, they become inured to contradictory evidence: they tend to reject anything which tends to go against their adopted worldview.

This applies to liberal vs. conservative, Catholic vs. Protestant, Creationist vs. Evo.

The evo's would get a lot more buy-in if they'd just phrase it like this:

"I know *you* don't want to accept evolution. And I understand you don't want your kids having things shoved down their throat at school which *you* disagree with -- as with sex strikeindoctrination education. However, if we taught things the way you liked, a lot of kids who would otherwise be neutral, would end up being resistant to learning about evolution scientifically later on, when they have the intellectual wherewithal to handle it. The problem is not that we want to indoctrinate people -- the problem is that a lot of people, for the sake of wanting to avoid evolution, will shy away from careers in biology, medicine, and drug development, and we need all the folks in those fields we can get. In addition, of those that *do* go into those fields, we will have to work extra hard to overcome their resistance, when we should be getting on with all of the other time-consuming and necessar work of training them."

But, of course, they don't. They engage in foaming-at-the-mouth hyperbole, and bigoted stereotyping, and turn off a lot of the "middle 20%" who would otherwise support them: although with the dumbing down of education, you are getting now > 20% in the middle...

...and to make it worse, those 20% are not rejecting Christianity (superstition, the scientists would call it) in favor of reason; they are instead descending into complete paganism, and complete nonsense. Christianity has a fine historical record of learning and respect for the mind, and Christianity provided the philosophical bedding for empiricism (a rational God left his mark by creating a rational universe; we can understand God by examining His handiwork; which morphed over time to "Cool! If we figure out how this works, we can control it" and then to "screw just controlling it, we can get RICH" and finally to "who needs God anyway?" These are all labeled by historical association "science" but they are not all really science.)

Cheers!

367 posted on 01/28/2009 9:43:00 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers

Merci, mon ami!


368 posted on 01/28/2009 9:44:32 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: CE2949BB; metmom
Implicitly, yes. See my post #334.

Cheers!

369 posted on 01/28/2009 9:47:25 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: CE2949BB; metmom
I don't care about those countries. I am an American and I care about America.

Not even France? The home of Voltaire and Gibbon? Falling to the jihadists?

Christian, Muslim... makes little difference. I don't want the State promoting any religion.

But the State is not promoting the religion by allowing Free Exercise.

See my first vanity on Free Republic, on this topic, too. Click here.

Cheers!

370 posted on 01/28/2009 9:51:12 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers
But, of course, they don't. They engage in foaming-at-the-mouth hyperbole, and bigoted stereotyping, and turn off a lot of the "middle 20%" who would otherwise support them: although with the dumbing down of education, you are getting now > 20% in the middle...

When perusing these threads, especially this one, a reader might conceivably not know of which group you refer.

371 posted on 01/28/2009 9:55:04 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: going hot
Try reading my *whole* post, and then see just beneath it, which post it was responding to, and read *that*.

I sometimes forget to include and italicize the point I am responding to, especially when the thread is "going hot".

Cheers!

372 posted on 01/28/2009 9:56:19 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers

France is France’s problem, not mine.


373 posted on 01/28/2009 9:57:20 PM PST by CE2949BB (Fight.)
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To: CE2949BB; metmom
Semantic word games aren’t what I’m looking for. Save it. I’m waiting for MetMom to tell me if I’m suppressing religion.

Since you were mentioned in the post, I include you in my response.

The scientific methodology is nothing but semantic word games The majority attribute religion requiring God, god, or gods but honest minds also acknowledge that religion is also a cause, principle, or SYSTEM of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.

In order for the scientific methodology to be adhered to there is NO outside God, origin, let alone a Creator allowed in the system.

However, even the very foundation of this system think stems from a hot steamy pot of primordial soup, wherein one single cell got hot and bothered and reproduced itself. But of course the claim is that evolution does not address that very foundation. Of course it does not address the primordial pot because it cannot be reproduced. When that hot steamy pot can be reproduced and via modern technology a flesh human created then toe has clout.

You think the Heavenly Father did not know what His children would come up with to explain their existence?

374 posted on 01/28/2009 9:58:46 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: CE2949BB
France is France’s problem, not mine.

So you lack compassion: or is your opposition to state-funded religion not really a principle?

Do you remember Joe Mauldin's quote to the Army brass about the morale-destroying nature of his WW II Willie and Joe cartoons in Stars and Stripes...?

Cheers!

375 posted on 01/28/2009 10:00:44 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: RegulatorCountry
You name one of the few respites remaining, and think you've scored a point.

You were the one who made the sweeping statement.

And, do you honestly believe that Pope John Paul, II uncritically accepted the entirety of ToE, without exception? I can assure you he did not.

You still haven't bothered to read what he wrote, I see.

376 posted on 01/28/2009 10:01:25 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: metmom
Jesus Himself speaks of creation and the creation of Adam and Eve.

Or was Jesus a liar, Gumlegs?

I'll take "False Dichotomies" for one hundred, Alex.

377 posted on 01/28/2009 10:04:09 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs
You still haven't bothered to read what he wrote, I see.

And you still haven't bothered to answer my question, asked several times: did Pope John Paul II, and in turn the Catholic Church, give unqualified support to the Theory of Evolution?

378 posted on 01/28/2009 10:07:20 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: grey_whiskers
I did read your whole post, and the post it was in reply to.

Still can be applied to either group.

379 posted on 01/28/2009 10:07:26 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: going hot
Not in context. And not if you read carefully -- the post I replied to ended with the statement "it's not just about the science". So the group who has been making that claim is the evolutionists.

But the reason it LOOKS ambiguous, is, like I said, that the Gramscian approach of taking over an institution and thereby influencing mindsets, works, regardless of *who* is taking over the institution.

And both sides claim to be fighting for "the truth" which makes the need for popcorn all the more urgent.

Cheers!

380 posted on 01/28/2009 10:13:01 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Shame on you for exhibiting the errors of a senile old man.

Did you diagnose the case yourself or have you relied on Dr. Juan Valdez?

His departure from God’s word must now be an embarrasment to him in the presence of the Lord, and hopefully he is unaware of what you are doing here.

If you really cared about your fellow man, you'd get the word out that you and you alone know God's will, God's intentions, and what knowledge is and isn't pleasing to the Lord. Get those several hundred errant Christian sects out there (estimates vary), right with You!

381 posted on 01/28/2009 10:13:26 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: RegulatorCountry

The answer is in the piece I posted. Read it.


382 posted on 01/28/2009 10:14:06 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: grey_whiskers
So you lack compassion: or is your opposition to state-funded religion not really a principle?

France is France's problem, not mine.

383 posted on 01/28/2009 10:14:08 PM PST by CE2949BB (Fight.)
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To: metmom; All
Or is it that laurel wreath thingie?

Please, read the open letter I left for you at DC. It's in the appropriate forum -- I'm sure you know the one. ;)

384 posted on 01/28/2009 10:16:31 PM PST by CE2949BB (Fight.)
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To: Gumlegs
Why would anyone confuse an observation of how nature works with a prescription for running a society?

Hold a seance and aske Margaret Sanger.

Seriously, though, when someone starts thinking we're no better than animals, they start thinking that the way to run our society is to do things that make animals stronger.

385 posted on 01/28/2009 10:18:04 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: CE2949BB; Mr. Silverback; metmom; Jim Robinson
g_w:So you lack compassion: or is your opposition to state-funded religion not really a principle? CE9:France is France's problem, not mine.

That's funny -- so by declining to answer the question, even when repeated, you confirm that separation of church and state is not even one of your principles. It is merely a convenient stick to beat Christianity with.

Here's your burqua.

Do you like kitties? (See the top of my FReeper homepage.)

Cheers!

386 posted on 01/28/2009 10:20:00 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: ToGodBeTheGlory

Evolution is a theory which explains the facts of human existance.

Please try to understand.


387 posted on 01/28/2009 10:20:11 PM PST by soroptimist
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To: Radix

[[Personally, I like contention out here. I do not mean disruption for the sake of it, but I appreciate that often times reasonable people will disagree.]]

That’s my sentiments exactly- I liked Coyoteman despite his occassional disruptions, but they were gettign worse and worse

Yeah- I saw your followup post right after I posted- saw that you read why he’d been banned- so my post was unnecessary


388 posted on 01/28/2009 10:21:17 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Mr. Silverback
Why stop there?

I once saw graffiti on the University of Minnesota -- Twin Cities campus which read "Vegetable Rights and Peace".

389 posted on 01/28/2009 10:21:28 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
Hmm. Like an ape in some ways, like a human in others. Could it be--gasp!--a transitional???

A chimp is more like a human than a rhesus monkey is. If there were no chimps or rhesus monkeys around, and someone found a fossil of a rhesus and a fossil of a chimp, couldn't they conclude that the chimp was a transitional form between the rhesus and man?

390 posted on 01/28/2009 10:22:00 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: ToGodBeTheGlory

There is no heaven or hell.

Once you die, it is all over.

Believe what you want, I’m a
Buddhist.


391 posted on 01/28/2009 10:22:23 PM PST by soroptimist
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To: YHAOS
In the months to come I sure hope we don't hear any lies about the cause of coyoteman's banishment. Don't you?

Near as I can tell, "coyoteman" just got banned for being an idiot but, then, we all knew that; I mean, the guy actually believed in darwinism... Am I missing anything here?

392 posted on 01/28/2009 10:22:50 PM PST by wendy1946
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To: grey_whiskers
That's funny -- so by declining to answer the question, even when repeated, you confirm that separation of church and state is not even one of your principles. It is merely a convenient stick to beat Christianity with.

Here's your burqua.

As I've said twice before: France is France's problem, not mine.

Maybe it's too hard for you to understand, but I oppose the promotion of religion - all religion, including Islam and Buddhism - by the government.

Any government.

Do you like kitties?

Do you like our party being out of power?

393 posted on 01/28/2009 10:25:12 PM PST by CE2949BB (Fight.)
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To: grey_whiskers
Not in context. And not if you read carefully -- the post I replied to ended with the statement "it's not just about the science". So the group who has been making that claim is the evolutionists.

I beg to offer divergent views. Either group has been guilty (if I may utilize that word) of stating or implying that it is not just about the science.

And both sides claim to be fighting for "the truth" which makes the need for popcorn all the more urgent.

Some in both groups certainly are.

I wonder who would be more surprised, or offended, in learning that they are both correct?

394 posted on 01/28/2009 10:25:22 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: ToGodBeTheGlory
Remember, God is the final Admin. There is no glub. I believe in one less dog than you do. I'm a buddhist. There is no glub, no heaven, no hell. Where does that leave me?
395 posted on 01/28/2009 10:26:03 PM PST by soroptimist
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To: Mr. Silverback

the chimp stopped here ...........@the WH :)


396 posted on 01/28/2009 10:26:28 PM PST by MissDairyGoodnessVT (Scooters work good in Vermont snow)
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To: Mr. Silverback
Gumlegs: Why would anyone confuse an observation of how nature works with a prescription for running a society?

Hold a seance and aske Margaret Sanger.

Methinks perhaps I should not as 'tis well known that a Seance is both UnGodly and a foul and notorious Refuge of the Pickpocket, the Thief, and the Scoundrel.

Seriously, though, when someone starts thinking we're no better than animals, they start thinking that the way to run our society is to do things that make animals stronger.

This looks like the same broad-brush you didn't like when I included you in my post about the Pope's piece.

397 posted on 01/28/2009 10:28:13 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs; ToGodBeTheGlory
If "God wrote down everything we needed to know," as you just posted, what are you doing on the internet? It's not mentioned in the Bible.

Once a friend had trouble finding my house after I had given him a sheet of directions. "that's weird," I said, "I wrote down everything you needed to know."

Now, do you think that when I said that I meant thatt I had written down everything he needed to know, from the alphabet and algebra to the company that insured his car?

398 posted on 01/28/2009 10:29:43 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: soroptimist
There is a heaven and a hell.

Once you die, you will probably prefer heaven.

Don't believe what you want, since your belief will affect where you go.

Fortunately, God did the heavy lifting; and promised to indwell us and to change our very nature to restore our right relationship to Him and bring us to heaven.

I'm a Christian.

Full Disclosure:

Since you're posting this on a "science" thread, I expect the atheistic evos (if they are sincere) to swarm over you, demanding physical evidence for the historical anecdotes and theological teachings of Buddhism; and demanding that only evolution be taught in schools in those countries where Buddhism is a major faith.

And then to repeat the process in Israel.

And then in the Caliphate.

...

*crickets*

Cheers!

399 posted on 01/28/2009 10:33:36 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Mr. Silverback; ToGodBeTheGlory
I'm trying to figure out what ToGodBeTheGlory was getting at. I'll let him/her/it answer my question.

Once a friend had trouble finding my house after I had given him a sheet of directions. "that's weird," I said, "I wrote down everything you needed to know."

Must ... Not ... Post ...

400 posted on 01/28/2009 10:35:29 PM PST by Gumlegs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 398 | View Replies]


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