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The Hobbit Hole XXXVIII - There and Back Again!

Posted on 09/23/2009 6:19:16 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog

Welcome to The Hobbit Hole!



TOPICS: The Hobbit Hole
KEYWORDS: corinnumber1; firstkeyword; jrgotanewjob; secondprecious
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To: Squantos; g'nad; Ramius; osagebowman; JenB; ExGeeEye; TalonDJ
Okay, I'm a sucker for .22 snubbies. This is the twin brother to my S&W 43C, but in .22lr (8 shots), instead if .22WMR (seven shots). Matching (I hope) Ahrend's exotic wood grips are already on order. Just too cute to pass up, even in these more serious times. :)


4,001 posted on 03/11/2013 1:59:24 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag

I’m a big fan of the snub .22 as a ankle rig for backup EDC to a primary sidearm as well as when hunting or wheeling. I have a uncle mikes nylon ankle holster that a parachute rigger modified for me to hold either 3 spare bianchi speed strips for a 38 snub or one of the old MTM plastic 50 round .22 boxes of spare ammo. My .22 is one of the SW 317’s and my other snubs are a SW 37 and a performance center 640 that ride in that ankle holster .....

SW 317 with 58 rounds as a backup or survival gun was my choice. It’s both minute of torso and or minute of bunny in a pinch.

I use CCI stingers that I run thru one of Paco Kelly’s accurizer tools ( available from Brownell’s or midway).... Makes a great rig.

Those are sweet looking matched pair.......

Stay safe !


4,002 posted on 03/12/2013 2:03:11 AM PDT by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: Squantos; g'nad; Ramius; osagebowman
Those are sweet looking matched pair.......

The newgun looks even better now that the factory grips are off, and the new Ahrend's cocobolo, like the first has, are on it.

I swear by the Paco Kelly stuff, if someone has the time and patience to do real research. I didn't know Brownells or Midway handled those items. Must go back and look again. Just segregating rounds by rim thickness can do a lot to improve accuracy, much less finding the favorite bullet diameter.

Oh, and this week is already starting with more weapons weirdness. The shop sent in one of their Kahr rental guns because the front light launched out into the great beyond. It's been back, and in use, for a few weeks now, with no comments from customers. One wanted to brag about how well it shot, and showed the target to the guy behind the counter.

All shots grouped well, but they were tumbling all over, hitting the target side-on. The oval holes were about 3x longer than the bullet, indicating they were tumbling wildly, and not just a gentle precession.

The gunsmith came out to look, and upon disassembly noticed there was no rifling in the barrel! While replace the sight, someone, for some ungodly reason, figured that an unrifled barrel was just what the doctor ordered. And people had been shooting it for a couple of weeks, without any comment.

Of course, I immediately jumped in the the class IT gag line, "that's not a bug, it's an undocumented feature". I cannot imagine why someone would keep unrifled barrels around, much less put it in a gun that just needed a front sight. However, they mentioned a brand-new, from-the-factory S&W 629 from a few years ago came in with an unrifled barrel. But these are not tiny errors. :)

4,003 posted on 03/12/2013 3:52:13 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: Squantos; osagebowman; g'nad; Ramius; ExGeeEye; JenB; TalonDJ
Well, I have a set of Ahrend's cocobolo grips on the new22. Luck of the draw, they're still better than the factory rubber ones. I would have liked them in a bit lighter shade, but that's the luck of the draw.

OTOH, the original rubber grips did not go quietly. For the simple loosening of a screw, it put up a hugh fight.The screw was loaded with Loctite Red, and torqued down with an impact wrench. I rounded the edges on three new Allen wrenches before the screw head itself was rounded.

I tried wrenches one-size-up, metric, and even a closely-matching Torqx wrench (all valid, but desperate measures). Nothing moved, except for me putting in a couple twists in the shaft of one hex wrench.

Now I was miffed, so I decided to use a pilot drill to cut through the screw head so I could separate the two halves. It looked like I was making progress, but had a long ways to go. With a nicely-centered pilot hold, I went with a regular drill that should have been enough to cut through the head. Got a bigger, more lop-sided hole, with half the head still intact.

I ratcheted-up the destruction another level, trying to see what I was up against. I don't know what Uncle Mike's (the OEM vendor of the grips) uses for rubber, but it was like trying to skin a rhino with a TSA-approved Swiss-army knife. Finally, I hacked enough away to see what I was up against, and then cut away enough material to grab the remaining part of the screw head (which I now saw as my salvation), and started to removed the screw a fraction of a turn at a time with needle-nose pliers. Here's the fruits of my victory over some $2 grips:

It was now 6AM, and after spending a minute putting the new grips on, I decided to declare victory, and go to bed. I have disassembled, tuned, Nano-lubed, and reassembled whole weapons with less time and effort than that. A pox on whoever decided to use that much red Loctite on those crappy grips. But at least I'll cherish even more the long and loving relationship with my new baby S&W. :)

4,004 posted on 03/14/2013 2:09:20 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag

Morning Win Mag - now that’s a stubborn screw..I wonder what the former owner was thinking..red lock-tite on a grip screw?. Kudos for your stick-to-itness on the project.

Found more brass,.processing commencing..guess I’ve grabbed up more brass from the range floor than I thought..Ah well, can’t have too much brass.


4,005 posted on 03/14/2013 9:37:06 AM PDT by osagebowman
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To: osagebowman; g'nad; Ramius; Squantos; TalonDJ; JenB
Morning Win Mag - now that’s a stubborn screw..I wonder what the former owner was thinking..red lock-tite on a grip screw?

That was done at the factory. It was definite overkill, but I had no problems with the grips on the first one. Maybe this was an extra-strong batch.

Although, I'm using blue Loctite on threads more often, and red, too. I've had grip screws starting to loosen after only a few hundred rounds fired.

Getting back to working with my newer handguns, here are the first-fire results from the Steyr M9, and the FNX-40.

The performance of the M9 with the Remington "disruptor" ammo (I know it's a Klingon term, but that's what keeps coming into my head) caused me a series rethinking of the defensive role of the right ammo with the right handgun. The Steyr, to me, is a nicer-handling, nicer-shooting version of a Glock. I'm trying to buy a new Steyr CxA in both 9mm and 40S&W.

The FNX-40 shows the results of the first magazine of standard 155gr .40S&W ball, although I'm looking for more "disruptor" in that caliber, too. My other .40s just struck me as meh, but with this handgun, they turned themselves into an easy-shooting, and fairly accurate combination. I admire the dual safety/decocker function, and what I suspect is a vey short trigger reset. I had no idea I could do so well with any .40S&W handgun. I might buy an FNX-9 just to round out the collection, if I ever see one. Magazine prices on FNs have doubled to about $45 in the last couple of months, but I managed to get a good supply of .40s already. The FNX-45 is new on the market, and I can't find any spare mags yet. The only reason I scored the .45 was because it was a special order, and the guy who ordered it backed out of the deal, so I bought it before it was put in the display case.

Now if I could just get some quality trigger time on the range, but that's in short supply on most days, with time limited to only 30 minutes, and that's after taking a number and waiting an hour. A lot of those new gun owners are on the range now, and are suddenly realizing that the box of ammo they bought with their new weapon just went downrange, and they need to think about buying a practical amount for the next time.

And I'm waiting for UPS to deliver my SiG P220 short-reset trigger kit. The SiG already gives near-instinctive double-taps already. Just a little twitch of the trigger finger as the round goes off, and you get another one. :)

4,006 posted on 03/15/2013 2:00:22 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag

Ordered a SRT kit for my P-226 Combat.... Wasn’t aware they had such... Thanks !


4,007 posted on 03/15/2013 7:46:43 AM PDT by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: Squantos; g'nad; osagebowman; Ramius; JenB; TalonDJ
More snippets of intel from the gun store. The biggest being two Glock 17 Gen4s arriving in today's shipment. Nothing out of the ordinary in one, but the other was marked "USA" rather than "Austria". Nobody there had ever heard a hint that Glock was now producing whole handguns (or at least the key components) in the US until they saw it. Domestic production saves them, and us, from any arbitrary and capricious BS from Customs or other government agencies.

Glock probably has enough assembly lines that they could afford to ship one here for domestic production, but I still applaud them for thinking ahead.

One thing still imported from Germany, which I was also unaware of until today, is the Walther PPS/K .22lr in stainless steel. It goes on my list of "must-haves" as part of my homage to great handguns, and great little .22s.

So it was a good day for recon, even if I didn't spend a cent.

4,008 posted on 03/16/2013 2:14:06 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: Ramius; g'nad; osagebowman; Lost Dutchman; Squantos; Corin Stormhands; JenB; TalonDJ; ExGeeEye; ...
Just some more quick notes gathered on recent scouting trips.

One thing I'm noticing is that people who were lucky enough to buy the long-neglected EBR are starting to think more seriously about a proper system of defensive weapons. A carbine will be most useful under end-of-the-world conditions, but odds are a handgun will be needed more often before that ever happens. So now new gun owners are coming back to look at handguns.

Despite differences in prices, and quality, an AR15 is a pretty simple choice, and hard to go wrong. Handguns come in infinitely more varieties and prices ranges. A perfect choice for one person may be a poor one for another. It's an embarrassment of riches, best solved by having a friend, or gun dealer, that you trust.

After the sticker shock of buying an AR15, comes the even bigger shock that some handguns cost even more, with some people not even blinking when it comes to price. Others are looking at saving as much money as possible, while still being adequately armed. And lots of other reasons in between.

The important thing to remember is there is crap out there in all price ranges, as well as gems in all price ranges. A gem is a handgun that you have complete confidence in, is accurate and foolproof, and comfortable enough to encourage you to get plenty of trigger time without getting discouraged at your first attempts.

I'd like to mention a brand-new model that was announced at the 2013 SHOT Show in January, and just arrived at my favorite store. It's the Walther PPX, and offers Walther quality (and bragging rights) at an entry-level price of under $500.

It's an economy version of the Walther PPQ, and available in 9mm, .40S&W, stainless slide, and threaded-barrel options. The economy comes from extensive use of Pressed Powdered Metal parts, including barrel and slide. Plastic is plastic.

This new(er) technology allows exotic alloys to be pressed under high temperatures and a controlled atmosphere to produce near-net parts that may require no further machining.

I can't say any more about it, because handling one has been my closest contact. If you don't know what you're looking for, you may never notice it. And it's big enough, and ugly enough, to say it means business, especially if someone is on the wrong end of it.

I may own something like this some day, but if I was in for something that can get some vey series business done, it's one I'd look hard at before looking at Walthers, or other prestige brands, at twice the price.

4,009 posted on 03/17/2013 3:01:09 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: Squantos
Ordered a SRT kit for my P-226 Combat.... Wasn’t aware they had such... Thanks !

Did some more investigating. It turns out the P220 SRT kit is the same thing that comes from the factory on the "P220 Elite", which is what I already have. The only thing I changed on my Elite was the new "short trigger" that is more deeply curved, and sets further back in the trigger guard.

Another couple of months, and I'll have my Bar-Sto threaded barrel for the P220. Then all I'll need is a FFL trust, and a big pile of money for a can.

4,010 posted on 03/19/2013 3:25:50 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag

I kinda like that little Walther. Would not mind adding one of those to my toy box. hmmm... Thanks for the update!


4,011 posted on 03/20/2013 3:55:17 PM PDT by Wneighbor (I don't know about the rest of y'all but we're celebrating Independence Day in Texas!)
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To: Wneighbor; osagebowman; Squantos; g'nad
I kinda like that little Walther. Would not mind adding one of those to my toy box. hmmm... Thanks for the update!

The guys at the gun store ordered two dozen (half for themselves), but expect them to trickle in a few at a time. Of course, they have first dibs for themselves. One of them said the workmanship (and probably the price) was equal to the "golden age" between the wars.

Meanwhile, here are the results of my first quick test of my S&W 43c in .22lr. It needs more break-in, and I can always use more practice. Still, for what I want it to do, it's already good to go.


4,012 posted on 03/21/2013 2:06:22 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag; g'nad

Now that PPS/K is on my short list too. Sure didn’t know that one was still out there. I know Bersa sold a bunch at my local LGS just for reason it LOOKED like one. I’d rather have the real deal any day.

I was visiting with owner of a nice LGS in the town north of theshire, he said that he takes anything that the wholesaler will send, same thing with ammo. He runs a CCW course at his mini-range, all the qualification is with .22 rimfire; when he gets a case of CCI SV he runs a class. Strange times indeed.


4,013 posted on 03/22/2013 7:18:08 AM PDT by osagebowman
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To: osagebowman
Now that PPS/K is on my short list too. Sure didn’t know that one was still out there.

I think the bright-polished stainless steel PPK/S is a brand-new product, especially in .22lr. There was a PPK/S (can't get the genuine PPK imported for mere citizens) in brush-finished stainless in .380 for a long time.

I can't claim any political prescience in my policy of buying in bulk if and only if I can achieve significant savings. It was just plain economics, as used to be taught even in high school. And I started before the regime worked down its list to hope-and-change-ify firearms.

Nobody should stand for demonization (or snitching) because you desire a case of ammo to go with your AR15 and Glock. A government that won't explain the purchase orders for 1.6 Billion rounds of police-type ammunition over and above their justifiable purchases for "the usual" agencies should just STFU when it comes to classifying its subjects as "stockpilers, hoarders, mongers, preppers, survivalists, militia, and religious extremists".

4,014 posted on 03/22/2013 6:19:09 PM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: Ramius; g'nad; osagebowman; Lost Dutchman; Squantos; Corin Stormhands; JenB; TalonDJ; ExGeeEye; ...
Today is a special April Fool's edition of Saturday Night Gun Pron, which in much of the country means a new blast of arctic air for another two weeks. Around here, we had sunny skies, and temperatures reaching almost 50 for Saturday and Sunday. As usual, the first home game for the Tigers will probably be called on account of glaciation.

My daily visits to the gun shop produced a few surprises. One, someone traded in a new-NIB FN FiveseveN with eight boxes of blue-tip ammo, asking $1450 for the whole package. It sold online in less than 12 hours. The surprising thing is that someone bought the handgun with the likely assumption that those 400 rounds will be the only ammo he will ever see for his new purchase.

Otherwise, nobody knows where the 5.7x28 ammo went, unless this is DiFi's secret revenge she was promised. Also bread-and-butter FMJ ammo in any caliber is almost impossible to find, as is rimfire ammo. You can find high-performance defense ammo in reasonable quantities, although at what is now considered unreasonable prices. $20-a-box FMJ seemed expensive, until it disappeared altogether.

Second, interesting items continue to trickle in. This came into my possession the second they slapped their inventory bar code on the box, and before they even made up the sales tag.

I'm starting to develop a fondness for .22WMR, and definitely for the 30-round un-PC magazine this Kel-Tec PMR-30 uses. I just have to be patient (as opposed to panicky) in searching for ammo and magazines.

As the sales guy said while doing all the federal and state paperwork, "as a defensive weapon, it has some unique benefits. If you miss, the bad guy is still deaf and on fire."

4,015 posted on 04/01/2013 12:41:49 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag

Evening Win-Mag, nicely done, although I haven’t shot the Kel-Tec .22 Mag, I’ve been on the range when one has been shot in the next booth. It is loud and zips out a pretty good flash, not excessive but certainly respectable for “just a .22”.

Those are far and few between at gunshows round these parts. Until recently the .22 Mag was reasonably available at the local shops but, alas, it has gone the way of .22 LR and 9mm.


4,016 posted on 04/01/2013 3:53:04 PM PDT by osagebowman
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To: 300winmag
If you miss, the bad guy is still deaf and on fire."

Had me LOL'ing on the floor... :-)

4,017 posted on 04/01/2013 6:18:37 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: osagebowman
Until recently the .22 Mag was reasonably available at the local shops but, alas, it has gone the way of .22 LR and 9mm.

Such is the way of almost all ammo, and most guns. Despite branches of state security purchasing several years worth of high-performance defensive ammo, nobody, including casual plinkers, can find common FMJ. If you look hard enough, and pay enough, you can buy reasonable amounts of premium ammo at premium prices. Even state security apparently no longer buys FMJ for practice, but plans on using "the expensive stuff".

Now while money is no problem for the government, where did all the FMJ go? Where did all the rimfire ammo (built with different tooling on different assembly lines) go?

With the firearms/ammo industry running at full capacity, and increased profitability, since 2009, the 0bama-shocks of late 2012-2013 could not have added enough new gun owners to have emptied out the stores so completely so quickly. Or there is much more to the story than millions of people, including existing gun owners, must have an AR15 that otherwise was not a priority item, until everyone sensed the item would be banned, if possible.

4,018 posted on 04/01/2013 6:48:11 PM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: osagebowman
Oh, and while walking through the regional equivalent of Wally World, I passed through their "outdoor" department. Since the store is close to Detroit, Meijers, along with Wally World, sell only a token amount of ammo, and no firearms.

Their ammo inventory consisted of NO rimfire, NO handgun ammo, and NO rifle ammo, except for a dozen boxes of .270 Winchester. Shotshells were in better supply, with 20-30 boxes of all gauges and shot weights.

I have more than that on a shelf in my ammo closet.

4,019 posted on 04/01/2013 7:00:22 PM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: Ramius; osagebowman; g'nad; Squantos; TalonDJ
Maybe I should include these reports under a new title: Ammo Trek. Things are starting to stabilize at the "little bit of this, little bit of that" level, much like shopping for food, clothes, or toilet paper in the USSR.

I had a bit of extra time, so I visited the semi-local Gander Mountain, which I consider a fourth-tier supplier of my needs. My expectations were vey low, just hoping for some MTM ammo boxes, and maybe some .22WMR ammo. NO expectation of any firearms worthy of even a first glance.

As with the 0bama regime, low expectations were too optimistic. No rimfire ammo, No centerfire rifle ammo except a few boxes in the classic-old -time hunting calibers of .270, 30-30, etc. No ammo for Modern Sporting Rifles. No centerfire handgun ammo except for everyday classics like .460S&W, .500S&W, etc. However, the shrunken gun department had tons of shotgun shells in every imaginable load (except assorted brands of buckshot).

I also noticed that they no longer have a section titled "Tactical Firearms", known here now as MSRs (Modern Sporting Rifles). Except for a CZ-xx and Mossberg high-power sporting rifles with price tags of $2600 and $7500 respectively. The Mossberg bolt action sporting rifle included a gigantic, and justifiably expensive, Leupold scope on it.

They were obviously having time selling those last two TFs. I was tempted to make them a cash offer, just so they don't have to carry the cost of non-selling inventory, but I don't think anybody in the store had the authority to refer me to someone further up the corporate chain, much less comprehend what I was offering.

Still, it wasn't a totally dud day. I stopped by at my usual spending grounds to try out the PMR-30 the first time. Since my total "stockpile" of .22WMR is about 200 rounds ("nobody needs that much, even with four handguns in that caliber"), I decided to load both 30-round magazines, one with pricey Winchester Defender, the other with ancient CCI .22WMR. The good news is that the weapon shoots like a dream, with almost no recoil (as opposed to a bit of muzzle rise in my S&W lightweight snubbie), and considering my handgun skills, phenomenally accurate from the first magazine.

As usual, the first time out, I spend all my effort trying to "read" what the weapon wants or needs for better performance. The muzzle blast from the Winchesters filled up my entire field of view, while the CCI had a bit heavier recoil (still almost negligible), and a fireball only about three feet across.

The not-so-great part is I had tons of FTFs with both magazines, and both ammo. This would be an easy issue to fix with extra-power magazine springs, except they don't exist. So I can also try different brands and weights of ammo, if I can ever find any. And more analysis and use of Nano-lube to reduce friction even more. I also expect the very consistent 3.5lb trigger pull to level out at about three pounds.

Maybe I need that PMR-30 threaded barrel (NOT intended for suppressors), just to put a high-performance flash hider so I don't blind myself at night. :)

4,020 posted on 04/04/2013 8:16:06 PM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag

Sorry, I forgot to add that I discovered that PMR-30s have been phenomenally rare ever since its introduction in 2011. My “grab it” reflex paid off again.


4,021 posted on 04/04/2013 8:29:09 PM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag

Like shopping in Russia ..... Wow ! Consider that stolen. We had same idea Tuesday morning ... The Gander outlet in amarillo is our only local Kimber dealer and my little Sister wanted to renew her CHL permit . This time she wanted to use a semi auto so I loaned her a standard piece of Glock 19 Combat Tupperware to run the course as in Texas if you shoot with a revolver, you can only carry a revolver. If ya use a semi-auto in the course you can carry either or .....

Anyway back to gander part of my story. Walked in to buy a Kimberly Solo to give little sister as a early Birthday gift. No Kimber solo’s in stock so as I was leaving I overheard the clerk telling another shopper that YES we do have ammo !

I froze and asked if they had Speer 357sig 125gr GDHP.......?

He said yes we have cases of it but limited purchases to 10 twenty round boxes per day.

So I paid cash and walked out with my find of the day. One happy camper per se !

As I left I noticed the clerk that had waited on me was leaving the store to his car for lunch or his shift was done etc / whatever. Seeing how I live 60 miles away I opted to try another purchase of 10 more boxes before I left Amarillo.

Put on a pair of glasses, a baseball hat after changing jackets and walked back in and a cute little gal up front sold me 10 more boxes ....:o)

That 357 Sig load and brand is my carry load in a Glock 31 or my KKM rebarreled Glock 35.

All that aside, reference your Gandering adventures.... You have a Kimber Solo ? Opinion ? Review ?

Want it for little sisters carry rig for home and office with 147gr Speer GDHP ammo. I’ve heard good thangs about it from others yet have not laid hand on one for personal evaluation and testing.

Ammo... “Like Shopping In Russia” !...... Funny, yet sad reality in Amerika !

Stay Safe Sir !!


4,022 posted on 04/04/2013 9:32:01 PM PDT by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: Squantos
All that aside, reference your Gandering adventures.... You have a Kimber Solo ? Opinion ? Review ?

I intend to take the Kimber Solo back to the range to check it out with the 105gr Remington 9mm Disruptors. Apparently the store tried out all their rental 9mms with these new rounds, and even the known finicky feeders functioned flawlessly. Recoil in any weapon is also noticeably lower.

So far, for me the Solo is still not "user friendly" enough for me to consider seriesly for carry use. However, I have made progress, and if the Disintegrators work (despite Kimber's warning of no ammo lighter than 125gr), it could move up high on my list.

First complaint, aside from nasty recoil, is that it was too damn small and slippery for my average hands. There was just enough weapon to grasp to rack the slide. It almost flew out of my hand when firing, despite a death-grip on it.

A slip-on Hogue rubber sleeve in their smallest size fixed a few problems. With the added "bite" from the rubber sleeve, I could rack the slide normally, and there was no tendency for it to want to depart my hand hold. Recoil is still bad, just not as bad as before.

In fact, the recoil is still bad enough that the grip screws were starting to loosen, even though I had torqued them to the max. They were even loose under the rubber sleeve, although they couldn't escape. I used generous amounts of Loctite red on the screws, and will check after each shooting session. I'm noticing some of the same grip screw loosening on other caliber handguns that don't present any recoil problems. My own theory is that short threads are vulnerable to the internal stresses present in any weapon when fired. Some critical part may crack after thousands of rounds, but I suspect screws will start to loosen even sooner. I can't figure out why I seem to be the only person that this happens to.

My own theory of defensive carry is that if I can't put a hundred rounds through the handgun in one session, I'll never develop the skills with that weapon to have the confidence that Murphy might invite himself to be the third party in a gunfight. I really seek absolute in my weapon so I can concentrate on the weakest link, myself. :)

Oh, and for anybody who collects Murphyisms, he's one I never saw before, although it dates to 1975 and the Fulda Gap:

So...where was I...ah, yes...so here's the corrollary to the law you quote: If it can go wrong it already has, we just don't know about it yet.

Sorry for being so wordy, but if I've already paid tuition in the school of hard knocks, I might as well share my quasi-wisdom with anyone interested.

4,023 posted on 04/04/2013 10:49:58 PM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag

We seek the truth, good or bad , only the truth.... You provided and probably saved me some cash and Lil Sister from a bad CHL tool....

I have small Gus in the form of a 80’s era Seecamp .32 and a new Rhorbaugh 9mm that I love for deep concealment. just ordered a Seecamp 380 this past weekend .

Need to find Sis a small auto in 9mm so may snag her just a standard Glock 19 of her own if she likes shooting mine. She may just stick with a SW 340 with glasers using a bahrimi grip and 2 spare speed strips from bianchi. But I want her to have the option of either or on her CHL permit....semi-auto or wheel gun .

Grateful for the review...was thinking you had one of the solos.
BTW would the heavy 147gr 9mm be a better choice ? I used this load and still do in my browning high powers and Glock 9’s..... Very good combo IMO.

Stay safe 300 ! Thanks !


4,024 posted on 04/04/2013 11:28:34 PM PDT by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: Squantos
BTW would the heavy 147gr 9mm be a better choice ? I used this load and still do in my browning high powers and Glock 9’s..... Very good combo IMO.

Kimber says not to go lower than 125gr, and that 125 and 147gr are the two preferred weights. I'm not sure there's much in between.

A Glock 19 is a good idea for a "starter" 9. Let her get lots of practice with it, so she's confident enough not to be surprised by anything it does. By then, she should have a much better idea of what she wants in something smaller for regular carry. And she'll be more confident in her ability to make an informed choice.

I watched a guy buy a S&W super-lightweight in .38spl. My guess is he figures if she can get five rounds somewhere in the vicinity of downrange, she won't think much about recoil if she needs to use it for-real. My philosophy is that four pounds of solid steel that you have mastered is better than trusting your twelve-ounce wonder weapon that you fired once.

Once I get around to testing, I'm going to take a hard look at my SiG P239 in .357 with the Remington Disruptor rounds.

4,025 posted on 04/05/2013 12:55:49 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag

I have not bought ammo in ages... though I need to find some more .22lr. I also need to check a bunch of my reloads. I had first time (for me) failure at the range last time. Blew the bottom of a .45 casing out. It cooked off the round below it, trashed the magazine and blew parts and ammo all over the floor at the range. :( Fortunately my Kimber Pro Carry was fine... though the mag release was dinged so I replaced it.
Taking a look at the other rounds in the box I saw that some of them had the round seated way too far down. I guess that could cause an overpressure like that.


4,026 posted on 04/05/2013 6:50:44 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: 300winmag

Love my 239 ....it was bought a 40 and I bought a 357 bbl also .... 40/357 magazines , single stack, can not be used for carry reliability as the geometry is skewed for single stack mags. They will work for the range.... But not for carry .... Don’t trust a 40 mag for a 357 load for personal defense. Get a 40 mag for 40 cal use ect.


4,027 posted on 04/05/2013 9:36:27 AM PDT by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: Squantos; Ramius; g'nad; osagebowman; Wneighbor; TalonDJ; JenB
Just a little something to whet your appetite for the evening edition:

This one is definitely a case of "the good, the bad, and the ugly". I'm glad I glommed onto it though, since it may be years before I see one in stainless steel. And I'm definitely going to write Carl Walther (actually, Umarex), demanding that Kontrolle 16 be busted down to a 3.

4,028 posted on 04/06/2013 3:10:33 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: Ramius; g'nad; osagebowman; Lost Dutchman; Squantos; Corin Stormhands; JenB; TalonDJ; ExGeeEye; ...
Tonight's Saturday Night Gun Pron is a continuation of my work on the Walther PPK/S .22lr. Without tearing it down completely (some dire warnings in the owner's manual about going past ordinary field stripping), I was able to apply Nanolube to more parts, and exercise some functions manually.

I consider the weapon shootable now, if you have the hand strength of a gorilla. The DA pull is estimated at 30 pounds, since I don't have a trigger scale that goes that high. The SA pull is 8 pounds, at least 5 pounds heavier than it should be. We'll see how things improve once I start shooting it. Fortunately, I have plenty of .22lr, and I suspect it will take at least 200 rounds for break-in.

This is what can be expected from a gun wrapped in a plastic bag after the exterior was sprayed with cooking oil, and the innards were bone dry. Now it's clean on the outside, and reasonably well-lubricated on the inside.

Risking voiding the warranty, I removed the grips for a better look inside while I field-stripped the handgun. From photos of Umarex's PPK/S airsoft gun, both start out with the same basic frame, which is some sort of heavy non-ferrous metal, and then made into their respective forms. Top priority is to assure that an airsoft gun can never be converted to fire live ammo.

The inside of the slide shows the airsoft construction method of stacking small flat parts together, and holding them with screws and nuts. That can give you a complex shape, although it has more potential for trouble than a slide milled out of solid steel. Along with airsoft guns, these replicas are designed around the principle that a milling machine (which needs a skilled operator, even if it's CNC) is verboten in making these things. The mechanism in the frame bears a slight resemblance to a real PPK, except many of the components are molded pressed metal, rather than machined steel. A "manhole cover" near the hammer is removable for access to more of the mechanism. Finally, the rounded center area in the grip is cut out for the airsoft frame, because the pressure cylinder goes there. Unfortunately, this means both versions use hollow ultra-thin grip panels, which makes it almost impossible to put some fancy wood grips on.

Most people will not notice the removable tension-barrel system, which has real advantages in providing consistent barrel rigidity, comparable to a big, fat target barrel. Target barrels were/are big and fat to provide more rigidity, and hence more consistency. Tension barrels allow you to do the same thing, with a much lighter construction. Plus, the end cap that pulls the barrel forward to provide the tension, can be replaced with a $10 threaded version that puts the threaded adapter for a suppressor in front of the slide.

So that's about all I know about the PPK/S right now. Looking at Walther's ads and images, I suspect the stainless steel version has been photoshopped to make it look more shiny and polished than it actually will be. I find this modern "service finish" to be acceptable, although it is nothing as handsome as the fit and finish of the real PPK with its hand-polishing and slow-rust blue color. The only cosmetic machining are the flats on the slide, which were probably given a quick trip through a surface grinder for a semi-gloss brush-finish treatment.

So I was back at the store today, where they just put out the IWI/Umarex "micro Uzi" .22lr pistol. They were making up their little info cards that a placed next to the guns in the display case, when I told them I'd take the PPK/S without them bothering to unpack it.

I don't know what's happening at Umarex, but the micro-Uzi had "issues" too, mainly because nobody studied it before it went into the case.

The cocking handle on top would not retract the bolt, and the sales guy admitted he didn't know how to take it down to have a look. I popped off the slide cover (it helps to be familiar with real Uzis), and while the bolt was fully forward, as a closed-bolt weapon should be, nothing I tried could help me pull it back into the position needed to feed another round from the magazine. However, I did notice it was bone-dry inside, just like the PPK/S. Since I didn't own the gun, and now wouldn't buy one on a bet, I agreed with Sales Guy that the micro Uzi could wait until Monday for their gunsmith to ponder the situation. I assume it's something simple, but I hope the buyer doesn't have to settle for a 30-pound trigger pull to have a working plinker. Until I learn more, and see how my debugging proceeds, these two items are both in the caveat emptor category. :)

4,029 posted on 04/07/2013 3:42:35 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag

My “compact” .22 pistols are berettas ....

Model 70
Model 71S
Model 76 target

The Mod 70 was a gift that had a threaded barrel. Magazines for the 70 series are getting hard to find, yet they are out there.... Flawless operation to date from all three.

My only Walther .22 is the P22 Target with the counterweight on the front. As you state, even this Walther has a heavy double action trigger pull.

As does my .380 PPKS/s.....

Nanolube , nanolube, nanolube and some detailing with my India stones did make it smooth yet ... Still heavy DA pull.

Stay safe !


4,030 posted on 04/07/2013 7:22:06 AM PDT by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: Squantos; g'nad; Ramius; osagebowman; TalonDJ
Range report tomorrow on the Kimber Solo and Walther PPK/S 22. Meanwhile, a secret sale netted me this piece of Benchmade cutlery:

One piece of forged steel with G10 non-slip handle scales. The plastic safety sheath has a fast-draw snap-out design that still manages to hold everything securely. The back is designed for either MOLLE strips, or a Tek-Loc belt/MOLLE clamp.

It comes totally unsharpened, so it will need a bit or work to get it to the hatchet level of sharpness, much less shaving-sharp. Same thing for the pointy end.I guess they decided everyone would have their own opinions on how to finish the project.

One thing I had to do was wrap the handle with that stretch-and-stick camo/bandage tape. My wrist needs all the help it can get, especially with jarring impacts.

The forked prybar on the end is a nice touch, turning this into a handy entry tool to pry a door open, rather than chop it to pieces. :)

4,031 posted on 04/09/2013 4:20:44 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: osagebowman; Squantos; g'nad; Ramius; TalonDJ
I took the Walther PPK/S .22 to the range yesterday. Good news, and so-so news. The so-so news is that the DA trigger pull is still about 30 pounds. The best I was able to do was get a death-grip on the gun, and yank the trigger with the second joint of my finger. At 10 yards, I guess it would be good enough.

The good news was the SA trigger pull was short, consistent, and had a very quick reset. Double-taps were easy, and accuracy was pretty good, with only 50 rounds fired so far, and that was cheap, old ammo.

That's 20 rounds, and I was concentrating on the gun, and not my shooting skills.

I think I'm going to tempt fate, and take it apart farther than the manual warns. First, I want to see where the "tells" are in contact points. Second, I want to study the kinematics of the start of the DA pull, and see if there's full contact on both surfaces, and whether a tiny radius on the strut might start the cocking process a bit slower and more gently. Maybe my dad's P38 will offer some clues, because for rushed wartime production, it still does a better job than this.

Oh, and one tiny nip from the slide. I guess my fat American hands don't quite match 1930s German ergonomics exactly, which means being vey careful trying to achieve a high thumb hold. Still, vey pleasant, and accurate, to shoot once past that long DA pull.

4,032 posted on 04/11/2013 1:29:02 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: 300winmag

Maybe the 30lb pull is a ‘feature’ and you are expected to cock the hammer for ‘real’ use. Kind of a clunky extra safety.
I don’t think I have ever been nipped by our Bersa thunderer. I wonder how different the frames are.


4,033 posted on 04/11/2013 8:19:49 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: HairOfTheDog

I had not seen one of these in years...I went back to the first one.

About half of those posting then still post here.

Amazing...Big Dan...man I had not seen that name here in a long time.

You wonder why folks dropped out.

Death or just disinterested.


4,034 posted on 04/11/2013 8:33:41 AM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: 300winmag

Well, thirty pound pull or not, nice target. I’d opt for the SA trigger pull myownself.

It just doesn’t seem reasonable that they would have put a trigger pull that heavy in that fine pistol. Even Glock’s Notorious NY trigger is less than half that of the Walther .22.

Hope you’re able to get to the bottom of that trigger pull issue. Were you able to see and/or test any other examples at your favorite LGS? Maybe a one-off occurance.


4,035 posted on 04/13/2013 7:26:30 PM PDT by osagebowman
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To: osagebowman
Were you able to see and/or test any other examples at your favorite LGS? Maybe a one-off occurance.

Despite two dozen PPK/Ss on order (half for the store employees), this was the first one that came in, with no idea if/when any more would appear. That's what made me snap it up, and I'm glad I did. But everyone who tried the stainless steel demo gun at the show said it was flawless. Maybe it was hand-tuned, so I suspect I can do the same thing.

If I want flawless performance in a pocket .22, I'll go with the S&W 43c. For full-size luxury, there's either the CZ-75 with Kadet kit, of the SiG P229 with its .22 adapter. In either case, the 40-year-old Sears ammo is like gold now. And I don't have to dip into my stash of Federal Match, either.

The cupboard for .22WMR looks mighty bare when I have four firearms that use that caliber, and less than 200 rounds to my name. And the Kel-Tec PMR-30 uses 30-round magazines. My centerfire supplies are in better shape than that. :)

4,036 posted on 04/13/2013 8:29:55 PM PDT by 300winmag (Whatever CAN go wrong has already happened. We just don't know about it yet.)
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To: Ramius; g'nad; osagebowman; Lost Dutchman; Squantos; Corin Stormhands; JenB; TalonDJ; ExGeeEye; ...
Today's early morning edition of the Saturday Night Gun Pron proves that lightning might strike the same place more than once, but you still can't keep it on schedule.

My unscheduled lightning struck on Friday at 6:30PM. The car was on autopilot, so I stopped at the MSR emporium. It was very slow, so I had a chance to say hi to all the guys. Knowing the drill, each one said, "nothing new today."

Except for the last one I talked to, who said, "nothing new, except three old S&Ws that one of the distributor had in a back room. The boss called him, and begged for anything to sell. He was told 'nothing except three discontinued S&Ws'. The store owner than said, "what part of anything don't you understand. I don't care what the are, send them right out."

The discontinued handguns were three S&W M&Ps that were never popular, and while still in the catalog, aren't made except for large orders from large police departments, and even they haven't been made for years. So what was ready to be put on the shelf was one of these guys.

I immediately ordered on wrapped up due to the magic words,

The owner is a big .357SiG fanatic, and had one put away for himself. I got the second, and the third sold sometime Saturday. Everything showed a production date of 2009, probably the first and last time Smith made this model.

Knowing my priorities, the first thing I did was order another case of Remington Disintegrators, since suddenly .357SiG is one of the few handgun calibers available online in case quantities. I have no idea how long a line of ammo hinted at as "LEO only", and an uncatalogued caliber, at that, will remain available, so I pounced just as fast on the ammo as on the weapon.

The rest shouldn't be too bad for too long. M&Ps are about as common as Glocks, and .40 cal double stack magazines should once again be as common as dirt. Another reason to love the .357/.40 combo when all that's needed is a second barrel. A .40S&W barrel is next on the list, just for insurance purposes.

It pays to ask the one guy who remembers to poke around through the incoming paperwork for the oddball items he knows I've developed a taste for. :)

4,037 posted on 04/14/2013 3:08:43 AM PDT by 300winmag (Whatever CAN go wrong has already happened. We just don't know about it yet.)
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To: 300winmag

I’m a 357sig fan as well .... A Glock 31, a converted Glock 35 with a KKM conversion barrel and a Sig P-239 . New Sig 229 in the safe but not exercised at the range yet.

Concur on the availability of 357 Sig ammo. Cases of 125gr Speer GDHP locally available last few weeks.


4,038 posted on 04/14/2013 4:39:34 AM PDT by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: 300winmag

Pardon my jealousy...

BTW - I really enjoy your Gun Porn Postings.

Keep up the good work.


4,039 posted on 04/14/2013 10:20:04 AM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Compliance with Tyranny is Treason...)
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To: Kickass Conservative; Squantos; Ramius; g'nad; osagebowman; TalonDJ
BTW - I really enjoy your Gun Porn Postings.Thanks. I just feel I have to learn via the school of hard knocks, and hope to pass it on to anybody interested, sparing reinventing another wheel. Even if someone never tries it, it always helps to know what can be done.

First trip to the range for some quick break-in firing of the M&P. The first shot with the Remington Disintegrators produced a dead-center "X", which I took as a good omen, since the rest of the rounds printed the way I usually do when working-in a new handgun.

Still, the M&P impressed me enough to swap out all the Gen1 internal parts with Apex Tactical upgrades. The current generation M&Ps have much better triggers, so this should let me pretty much pull even. Not really bad right now, but if I can do better, I will. This will join my special group of trusted and proven SHTF weapons.

Speer 125gr FMJs shot well, with just a bit of muzzle jump, a straight push back, and no "slap" to the palm of my hand when I shoot to much of a round in too little of a weapon. My wrist gets a little sore about round 49 when I shoot .45ACP, which I consider an easier round for me to handle compared to the occasional 9mm or .40S&W.

The Remingtons are almost supernatural. At 100gr, NO muzzle flash (a good trick on a .357SiG) and just some gentle recoil. Very impressive performance for something that's basically a flying grenade. The salesman took a few shots with it when I offered it to him. We both noticed the muzzle blast move paper scrap from targets to about 20 yards downrange. But except for one or two tiny muzzle flashes about the size of an orange, we watched from behind and to the side of the gun, and didn't see any. Considering some of my brands of .357 SiG puts out a fireball that blinds two firing points on both sides of me, this is impressive performance.

As soon as I got home, I ordered another 500 rounds online. The next day, I noticed their entire listing for the Remington Disintegrators had vanished. Aaaaannnnddd, I ordered an aftermarket barrel in .357 for my FNX-40, since FNH abandoned that round years ago, too.

I feel like I'm doing my part to preserve the ammunition Of the Sig, By the Sig, and For the Sig from vanishing from the face of the Earth. :)

4,040 posted on 04/17/2013 12:59:17 AM PDT by 300winmag (Whatever CAN go wrong has already happened. We just don't know about it yet.)
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To: 300winmag

Lol .... Sad we see common calibers, albeit tried and true disappear from the shelves and levitate towards a round that is a,proven performer as well but mainly a LEO / FLEA caliber is available. 357sig is and has been my carry for last 8-10 years. Carried a 1911A1 prior to that albeit my old sheriffs department reserve gig forced me to a SIG 220 in 45 as a duty weapon. sheriff hated 1911A1’s for some silly reason. He was an idiot and my love of 45 conflicted thus a P-220 was compromise.

After retirements rom military, joined another sheriffs reserve unit and 1911A1 was approved for carry thus I was a happy camper. Then witnessed a DPS shooting with their P-220’s on a camero windshield. 230gr HS x 4 rounds broke said glass yet never penetrated. Was involved with shooting thru car door once and same 230gr HS didn’t punch thru said car door. Granted pistol ain’t for killin a car yet stopping a felon in said car was desired.

AS1and AS2 glass properties construction of car doors knowledge in hand Texas DPS did extensive studies for defeating at least one layer of that glass and the car door to make hits on soft squeezy felons vitals inside.

The 357Sig was / is the solution until a rifle or shotgun could be obtained.

Every store I have visited in past few months of this ammo drought has had 357sig ammo. Bought cases for past few months each payday.

Will never run out, still able to shoot 3 gun and IDPA matches, saving brass, casting and reloading for paper punching games. Easy days thanks to a caliber few seem to use.

Shoot with two other deputies that carry 9x23 1911A1’s due easy reloading of that caliber. Their reload rounds are plus pee velocities that match or exceed the 357sig in some cases and punch vehicles just fine as well when forced to do such. factory 9x23 is rare per my experience , have never seen such in a gunslingers shelf for sale. But it to is out there I am told.

Always thought a Para Ord P-14 or STI in 9x23 would be perfection personified as a CHL rig. HiCap primary and 1 spare mag would be around 40 rounds plus or minus on person, easy to carry and and and and .....:o)

Good read on your range day. Love the bull on first round fired. I have done such and stopped and replaced the target. Wallpaper my office with such cold shots ....:o).

Yeah it’s a small office ...LOL ,

Stay safe !


4,041 posted on 04/17/2013 2:27:34 AM PDT by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: Squantos

Have you seen this?

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/sig-mpx.aspx

Sweet!


4,042 posted on 04/19/2013 8:04:06 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( ==> sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog

I have ,,,,very nice. Sad we can’t buy such tools anymore unless ya find one already in private hands. That would make a great lap gun in the recliner for home invasion insurance....:o)

Hope yer well my friend. Stay Safe !


4,043 posted on 04/20/2013 4:26:13 AM PDT by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: Squantos

That would make a good recliner gun. I wonder if they make a remote control that will attach to your picatinny rail?


4,044 posted on 04/20/2013 6:02:43 AM PDT by smokingfrog ( ==> sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog

Just aim it at the wife or kid and tell her to turn the channel ....:o)


4,045 posted on 04/20/2013 6:04:25 AM PDT by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: Squantos

;-) lol


4,046 posted on 04/20/2013 6:08:51 AM PDT by smokingfrog ( ==> sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: 300winmag
Suppose someone has a complete M&P AR lower;

Want to be able to shoot both GI 5.56 and civvie .223;

What would you suggest for an upper?

I prefer, but am not stuck on, the M16A2 appearance.

Based on what I’ve heard I prefer the gas-tube over the gas-piston.

4,047 posted on 04/27/2013 9:35:31 AM PDT by ExGeeEye (It's been over 90 days; time to start on 2014. Carpe GOP!)
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To: ExGeeEye
What would you suggest for an upper?

Based on your description, you want a quality upper marked "5.56mm", since the civilian ".223" does not have to meet the higher standards of "5.56" in terms of barrel life, strength, etc.

While the lower carries the serial number, the upper is the key element as far as overall performance goes. Go with quality manufacturers, even for "just the upper". There are too many "Grade B" forgings around that need a lot of later handwork to get them into a respectable, in-spec shape. The better manufacturers machine their own, or their QC goes through more steps to make sure even the "trivial" specs are right on.

I don't know if you're looking for a "beater" (always good to have one of those, especially for learning AR15 gunsmithing on), or a "forever" rifle. In any case, get as heavy a barrel as you can handle, especially underneath the handguards, where GI standards, and weight savings, tend to thin out the barrel before it gets "fat" again. DO NOT buy a fluted barrel, because only the extra-premium ones will have a second heat-treating after fluting. The manufacturing world is only now starting to realize that machining itself can add potential stressed in unexpected places that come back and bite you thousands of hours, or rounds, later.

Consider a monolithic upper, with the forward rail section machined from the same piece of aluminum as the "real" part of the upper. Stay away from free-float tubular handguards. The one I got proved to be the biggest ass-pain of any AR15 work I ever did. The final results are great, but only after a lot of grief, and a good chunk of change for a carbon-fiber tubular handguard. No matter what you have, things start to get hot after the first few hundred rounds. Anything touching the barrel will get hot, including the gas block/gas piston, gas tube, rear handguard ring, and even the part of the upper that the barrel screws into.

A bit of trivia, but in a special test on a suspect lot of ammo, the Army discovered that the stainless steel gas tube melts into red-glowing linguine after about 950 rounds of really sustained full-auto torture firing far beyond anybody's specs. However, once the weapon was cool enough to touch, the gas tube was replaced, and it still passed the "serviceable for combat" standards. Just don't do it to your own weapon, ask a friend to borrow his. :)

A rule of thumb is to be prepared to spend $1K or a bit more for that quality upper. I'm already seeing guys coming back to the MSR store offering to sell back their $700 generics, only to be told that they can get $600 for the entire weapon. As the store owner tells them, "first, you didn't buy this from me, because I've never sold this brand. Second, an unfired weapon is still a used weapon once you go out the door with it, so $600 is the best you can expect". If I was shopping for an upper today in 5.56mm, I'd consider this heavy barrel, mil-spec upper from a company like Daniel Defense.

Slap on sights, and I'd consider it "ready to rock", although I'd tweak it a bit with a better flash hider than the GI type. Certain premium brands can both cut down muzzle rise, and dampen muzzle flash at night to just a faint puff of gas that's just about impossible to see beyond a few feet away. I'd also add insulated rail covers, and more rails, where needed. Anything metallic can get warm after 30 rounds of "quick" fire, and heat shields will stop shielding when saturated. The really good thing about my carbon fiber handguard was the composite started to get warm where it touched the aluminum rear cap, but stayed cool about an inch forward of that.

Here's the writeup at Daniel Defense upper.

There's a lot of detail on this one item, along with a good discussion of the mil-spec features you want on your upper, in general. Both Midway and Brownells have "build your own AR-15 configurators" that let you browse through their wares and give you a bill of materials. Just take basic "lower" choices, and concentrate on how your upper should look.

4,048 posted on 04/27/2013 11:30:43 PM PDT by 300winmag (Whatever CAN go wrong has already happened. We just don't know about it yet.)
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To: 300winmag

Thanks!

The Daniel Defense link didn’t work for me. I’ll mess with it a bit as well as look around for some of the other things you mentioned.


4,049 posted on 04/28/2013 12:40:07 AM PDT by ExGeeEye (It's been over 90 days; time to start on 2014. Carpe GOP!)
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To: ExGeeEye
The Daniel Defense link didn’t work for me.

Doesn't work for me either, I must have broken something. What it really is supposed to be is a link to Midway's page for that 16" upper. There's a lot of ways to search for it. Sorry for any inconvenience.

4,050 posted on 04/28/2013 1:06:57 AM PDT by 300winmag (Whatever CAN go wrong has already happened. We just don't know about it yet.)
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