Posted on 09/23/2009 6:19:16 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
Welcome to The Hobbit Hole!
Huh, that’s not a bad pink. My only pink gun is a Mosquito in a nice raspberry color (not the usual pink at all). Might have to see if they’ve got one at the nice gun store up the road next time we’re in Richmond.
This is the official CZ "factory pink" treatment.
When you see one in a store is another matter. Some versions were announced three years ago, and nobody will admit to even seeing one, much less having one for sale. It's not that CZ produces vaporware, as some companies do, but whatever they make gets snapped up so fast, not many people get a chance to see it, and verify that it exists.
If you're a fan of S&W J-frames, this item from the Ergo people might amuse you.
An obviously new concept in grips for snubbies, it's supposed to automatically position the revolver perfectly, so you're looking down a perfect sight picture, no matter how you draw your weapon. It's also supposed to give you a secure grip, no matter what.
As Murphy's Law says, "if a thing sounds dumb, but it works, it's not dumb". I can afford $20 to try one out, but I thought I'd give everybody else an early warning to be on the look-out in case one ever appears in front of you. :)
Meanwhile, my rehabilitation efforts with the 90+ year-old S&W M1917 have paid off. After staring at its innards for two days, the problem, and solution, hit me in the face like a wet salami. The total overall length of the extractor assembly was about .001" inch longer than the allowable maximum. This forced the extractor assemble to bend ever-so-slightly at each position of the cylinder, but also transmitted weird off-axis forces throughout the inner workings of the revolver. Removing about .001" from the knob on the end of the extractor rod brought everything into spec, and allowed me to do my usual nanolube break-in, because there were no off-axis forces trying to push all the parts out through the side of the frame. That old warhorse turned out to be a 90-year-old stud colt that is just starting to show his inherent talents after one box of ammo.
Disclaimer: I put on some modern rubber grips on the frame before firing, because the old-time stuff, especially with heavy recoil, tends to slam the back of the trigger guard against my fingers. But for photo purposes, the originals went on. Trigger pull is within spec at 11 and 7 pounds DA/SA, and it might go a pound lower when things start to break in. Only now are drag marks starting to appear, because only now are the parts fitting like they should.
The equine equivalent would be taking a nail file, make a tiny pass over a tiny part of a hoof, and curing everything. When I recognized the problem, and the fix, my face-palm reverberated through throughout the basement for several seconds. I wonder how many people looked at this weapon over the last 90 years, including the S&W and Army inspectors who officially blessed it, and then just set it aside? The S&W craftsman, the final seller, and probably several armorers glanced at it during those decades, only to put it on some out-of-the-way shelf or drawer. Unintentionally, they put it into stasis, leaving me with a brand-new 90-year-old revolver that should be good for at least another hundred years. I'll have to look up the inspector's marks so I can discover their names, and give them some belated thanks for their unintentional foresight. :)
Really? It looks lame and after-thoughtish.
I’ll be curious to see the results of your Ergo range report. That is one funky looking grip.
Excellent diagnosis and correction on the venerable old Smith. Those are great revolvers and the proof is on the target. You done good. Kudos Win Mag.
You’re correct on the use of ‘aftermarket’ grips on the Smith N Frame, well most Smiths. I found a old pair of Pac Presentation grips for a N-frame I’ve kept around for shooting the odd old Smiths I’ve had a chance to shoot. Very effective.
Back from the BP range, warm day that means snapping caps and burning powder. The ROAs were present and active.
I learned a few other things during this project. I don't know if they can be put to use, but I cherish hard-won knowledge, even if others consider it trivia.
The parts of that revolver were machined from steel, and hardened somewhere along the way. Then they were fitted by hand just well-enough to provide the performance called for in the design specs. But while I had all the pieces out, I decided to refine the fit-and-finish of the parts that nobody will ever see, except for a gunsmith who opens it up.
As the parts were fitted together more finely, the sound of them functioning changed. Improved sear surfaces made for shorter, crisper engagement time. Less time for one part to drag along another, transferring unneeded forces back and forth. "Smoosh, clack" became "click, click" with less force imparted by me. Expensive mechanical watches are made with micron tolerances in some designs because the complexity leaves no margin for tolerating slop or drag. The parts are so tiny, and the mass so small that even the wrong viscosity of lubricant is like filling it up with maple syrup.
Factory tolerances are, by design, acceptable. To go beyond that, to approximate something like the first hand-built prototype, takes you into different territory. The sounds and forces are crisper, shorter, and have their own independent resonances once engagement is broken with the other part. Each part behaves like a tiny tuning fork in those situations. None of this means anything when you're in a firefight, but if you like to ponder the imponderable, it's a worthy effort.
A reasonably-talented designer could take a modern weapon, and grasp all the operating principles in less than an hour. Hand him the drawings and list of materials, he'd say "how the hell do I build this, and what are some of these materials listed? This must take tools that are beyond my imagining."
The same thing would happen if you could send the M1917 back in time to 1817. A brilliant gunsmith could grasp the final product, but have no idea of the scientific or mechanical principles needed to make one, or millions. The same applies to everything we make that has more moving parts than a rock.
I saw this first-hand when I put a super-frictionless finish on the cylinder stop, an oddly-shaped part in the very front of the frame. Normally, cycling the action just "makes it work", but by tuning it, I was able to operate the action much more slowly, and watch the odd dance the part does, as the single blur of motion resolved itself into about a dozen discrete steps that I could "freeze" and study any step along the way. There was no "power" inertia that requires one to put a large amount of mechanical effort just to start the system, and leave it with enough remaining power to get all the way through its cycle. And then you get the excess thrown back at you in the form of unwanted vibration, noise, and other wasteful stuff.
I put the M1917 up against my ear as I worked the action, and hear a tiny minuet played by a chamber orchestra. Something out-of-the-box, regardless of quality, sounded like a mosh-pit band, complete with three seconds of reverb after the mainspring had completed it's work. Of course, different tools are designed for different tasks, although there can be some overlap. But I wouldn't use a fresh surgical scalpel to split firewood, and would hope nobody asks to borrow my pocket knife for some ad-lib brain surgery. :)
That was a very well written analysis and commentary on your efforts with this fine revolver. Thanks for taking the time to write and post it. Kudos.
Morning Win Mag - nice, very nice. I’ll bet they feel as good as they look. Fine pair of Pythons.
1. Replace 16-pound recoil, hammer, and firing pin springs with more reasonable 13-pound weights.
2. Replace any plastic recoil spring guides with metal ones.
3. Replace soft firing pins and hardened firing-pin roll pins with harder, .001" longer firing pins, and softer, solid retainer pins.
4. Ream firing pin channels to ensure there are no microscopic burrs that can hinder firing pin travel.
5. Install drop-free magazine brakes and lanyard-loop hammer spring end caps on all handguns.
6. Replace, where possible, the standard slide release with the longer type from the CZ75 SP01, making for easier "reach".
7. Replace the generic-but-uninspiring factory rubber or plastic grips with the much flatter and thinner aluminum "gunfighter grips" to aid in reach-reduction and overall lessening of width.
With the exception of the grips, most of the changes are internal, and don't show up in a photo.
For anybody still reading this, a bit of explanation. First, the aluminum grips come in other anodized colors besides basic black. With grips going out of stock frequently, I bought what I could, including one spare set of both compact and standard sizes.
The handgun in the upper left is the .45cal CZ97 BD, which uses the "moose" frame exclusive to it. There are aluminum and plastic grips for it, too, just not in stock as of right now. Also, while the CZ fans complain about the lack of CZ P07s and P09s, most consider the 97B and 97BD to be figments of someone's imagination. "They see you rollin' with a 97B, they be hatin'." Take a low(er) production weapon that outperforms other brands costing $300-$400 more, and you have the beginnings of a cult following. I can see how this could be possible, but I know I can quit any time I want. :)
My dad's original CZ75, top center, is basically pristine original externally, except for the Hogue cocobolo grips. The soviet-style cold-war plastic grips, and packaging, were just too embarrassing to leave on such a noble weapon once it arrived in the USA. It's earned a bit of free-market finery, especially since it likely won't be needed for serious duty, although it remains as perfectly capable of taking care of business as its younger descendants.
And on a serious note, if you're ever in the market for a defensive handgun, give serious thought to something from CZ if there's one on the shelves. There are other fine brands out there, but CZ is THE sweet spot where price and performance shine.
[sigh]. Python. :-)
I have 3 .357’s but alas, no Python. A regret, now that they’re harder to find.
That means working a regular "trapline" of genuine gun stores that do a good business, and don't try to BS you. I think it takes mutual respect so that they know you're a solid customer, know your tastes, and hold the stuff you like so you can get first look before it goes on sale.
I do business with a dealer who doesn't dicker on prices, but doesn't screw anyone, either. Except for big-ticket items like guns, where he tries to do business at 90% of MSRP, everything else is list price, because he won't dicker over a couple of dollars. OTOH, he didn't double or triple his magazine or ammo prices. What was on the box when it went on the shelf was still the same price months later. He didn't go around raising prices once a week like a lot of other dealers did. What he has to pay the next time he gets a delivery will depend on his prices then. His philosophy is to not screw the customers in tough times, so they'll remember to come back in the good times.
I can't explain it, but the current president has kicked out more older pieces, along with increasing sales of new stuff, than anyone else. When I was a starving college student, I saw Pythons, Model 66s, Gold Cups, and all sorts of other classic and high-end weapons, but could never afford them. Now I can pay just about the same price, UNadjusted for inflation, as they cost in then-year dollars. A very few are NIB, but I've gotten quite a few in the 95% range that lets me shoot them without fear. I also know that this time will probably be my last time, or anybody else's, to see them on the same "used" shelf as a Lorcin or Jennings. Guess which one I'll pick. :)
Sweet collection ..... Very very nice !
Stay safe !
Whose idea was it to put a hole in the hammer spur?
The concept goes back over a hundred years. First, the spur was rounded, to make it easier for the cavalry to cock the hammer by rolling it against a canvas strip on their britches. And the hole was added to reduce weight, and speed up lock time. Hard to say who thought of it first, but lots of manufacturers started doing it, or at least making it available as an option.
I have always been leery of it - thinking that it would be a good place for it to hang up and jerk the pistol out of my holster or hand. That spur hole and smooth grips are two things that turn me off when examining a handgun. Sweaty hands and smooth grips are a no-no.
I agree, although there are several ways around those problems. The top of the round hammers on the CZs are serrated for grip, just like a regular hammer. And the aluminum grips have 70-grit skateboard tape inserts where most of the palm and fingers grip the weapon.
My polished stainless steel CZ75 is so slippery I had to put wrap-around rubber grips on it just so I could get enough grip to rack the slide. Too slippery for serious defensive work, but it looks good when I take it plinking.
I've also shot handguns with composite grips like G10, and the "grip" was so coarse it felt like I was running a belt sander across the palm of my hand. YMMV, but there's a wide of assortment of better or worse choices for every preference.
I saw my first Walther PPK, a pre-1968 in .32ACP, just a few months ago. I have no use for one, I have no need for one, as I alone determine my needs. But it was sure cute and classic, and I would have bought it just for that, but someone else beat me to it.
So today I was told that a special-order Walther PPK had finally come in after three years. Whoever ordered it had since died, so they offered me "first look" privileges.
Again, I have no use for it, since I don't even own anything else in .380ACP. I don't NEED it, but again, it was appealing. So despite all the down-checks, I bought the little darling.
Due to BATFE "scoring" rules, a German-made Walther PPK has not been imported into the US since 1968, except for government uses. But those rules don't apply to ones made in the USA. Since Walther and Smith & Wesson have such a close working relationship now, this PPK is made under license from Walther in a S&W factory located in the free territory of Maine. Another well-earned poke in the eye for Massachusetts. :)
There are some visible differences, aside from the stainless steel construction. Most noticeable is the much larger beavertail at the end, which is more effective protection from hammer or slide bites compares to the original, although it knocks a bit of nostalgia off. The plastic grips have some changes, and the lanyard loop on the bottom of the frame is gone. With a bit of luck, I can retrofit a vintage set of grips and lanyard loop.
The Walthers were expensive even back in their early days in Germany. This modern version has some MIM parts, and the slide and frame look like investment castings, although the cosmetic work looks vey good. Cheaper to make, but still pretty expensive compared to the $200 .380s that so many people demand. :)
So I now have a nice, useless gun that I hadn't even dreamed about until today, when the owner's son brought this out for my viewing pleasure from the hiding place underneath the counter.
Nice collection of CZs you have. More good stuff than I’ve seen at our local ‘stocking’ CZ dealer. Dropped in yesterday to see what had come in. Nothing of note CZ wise but did score some Winchester LPPs at the old price. Even found some 100 round boxes of CCI Shorts which I haven’t seen in a long, long time.
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