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A Clean Barrel
The National Rifleman ^ | October 2009 | John Barsness

Posted on 10/30/2009 8:24:14 PM PDT by Retain Mike

Many obsessive riflemen “know” a lot of things about the insides of their barrels. They know they must break-in barrels and that any bore only slightly smudged by the passage of bullets will shoot less accurately compared with a barrel as clean as Aunt Josie’s kitchen floor.

First, let’s examine “proper” barrel break-in. According to just about everybody, this is accomplished by firing one shot, cleaning the barrel of all powder and copper fouling, firing another shot, cleaning, etc. Advice on how long to continue this tedious routine varies from 10 to 30 rounds. The procedure supposedly smooths the bore, making it much more accurate and less prone to jacket fouling. Some even claim that a barrel that isn’t broken-in “properly” will be ruined forever, unable to produce the half-inch groups necessary for the slaying of white-tailed deer.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Hobbies; Military/Veterans; Sports
KEYWORDS: accuracy; banglist; barrel; cleaning; rifle
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To: wendy1946

Try buying one recently?
they are up between three and four hundred.
I was amazed at the accuracy of mine (which
I purchased a couple years ago for $139),
till I examined the trigger mechanism
this is probably the best set up I have
ever seen.
It’s what I will be hunting with this year.
If you get a chance pull one of the Swiss
bullets, it is a thing of beauty.

21 posted on 10/31/2009 10:06:56 AM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Squantos

Very cool! ...and you got a hat! :-)

22 posted on 10/31/2009 10:22:39 AM PDT by hiredhand (Understand the CRA and why we're facing economic collapse - see my about page.)
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To: mamelukesabre
I'm not sure if you're familiar with J-B Bore Paste, but it's a mild abrasive that was "supposed" to aid in the break in of barrels and was highly touted by IBSC shooters as well as Armalite in their own break in procedure.

Around 2005 or so Armalite changed their break in procedure to recommend AGAINST mild abrasives such as J-B Bore paste. They even go so far as to say that it can shorten the serviceable barrel life. I've used it periodically in the past, and honestly can't say whether it made a difference or not. But something always struck me wrong with scrubbing the rifling of my fine and expensive rifle with an ABRASIVE. :-) matter how fine they say it is!
23 posted on 10/31/2009 10:26:05 AM PDT by hiredhand (Understand the CRA and why we're facing economic collapse - see my about page.)
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To: Lurker; hiredhand

Yeah he was a nice guy an talked for about a half hour. He runs a shooting school in durango colorado called evil roy shooting school.

As to barrel break in I will shoot three rounds, clean with sweets 7.62 an patch till clean an dry.
Run a patch down with militec1 on it an shoot 3 more rounds an repeat that process. About a dozen times. That process is for my new rifles / barrels.

If I have an old gun an the bore looks good I will have the barrel set back a few thousandths an a new crown cut an the chamber “recut” after extensive cleaning.

One I did this to was a old smle enfield I converted to 7.62x54R an it is very accurate.

One thing I do is clean the firearm every 24 hours times 3 days as the pores in the metal will put carbon black back on the patch for at least three cleanings after shooting in my experience.

Stay safe !!!!

24 posted on 10/31/2009 10:50:18 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: 9422WMR

Yea, this sounds like a newby goofball pontificating about something he knows nothing about.....

This is my cleaning routine based on Experience. parallels John stuff.

40,000 rounds shooting prairie dogs 1/2 inch gorups at 200

There has been much discussion over the subject of cleaning firearms. For those of you who still think you must clean your firearms (especially a rifle) after each and every range session, or after some prescribed round count, then I urge you to please read the excellent article titled “A Clean Barrel” on page 66 of the November issue of the American Rifleman, by John Barsnsess.

I agree with John on many points. The Black powder era is indeed long gone. We have been shooting smokeless powder for well over a century now. There is no reason to fear that your barrel will rust away if you don’t clean it. Many new shooters who come into the league are under the assumption that they must clean their firearms after every range session. Nothing is further from the truth than this misconception.

Rifles: My Savage match rifle, chambered in .308 Winchester goes a full shooting season before I clean it. That’s approximately 600+ rounds of Federal Gold Medal match ammunition fired through the bore. The Savage will routinely shoot its best scores between 300 and 450 rounds.

In 1994, I attended the FBI’s Sniper/Observer School. I used a Springfield Armory Super-Match M1-A rifle and never cleaned it once during the 5-day course. We shot well over 400 rounds during the class and on the final day, I shot a perfect qualification score and placed second overall in the FBI’s shooting drills.

When I do decide to clean the Savage, I brush the bore several times with a plastic bore brush to loosen any powder fouling. Next, I’ll push a wet patch through the bore followed by a few dry patches to wipe most of the fouling out. Finally, I use this wonderful product called Outer’s Bore Foam. The Bore Foam was created to remove the dreaded copper fouling. I spray the foam in from the breech end until it comes out of the muzzle. I let the foam sit in the bore overnight. The next day I’ll push the foam out with a couple more clean patches. At this point, I’m totally done cleaning the bore. What’s that old Hippie saying? Better Living Through Chemistry.

I’m also not in the habit of running a slew of patches through a bore until they come out squeaky clean because I’ve personally never seen that happen. There will always be some discoloration left on a patch. Anyway, I’m going to foul up the barrel again fairly soon so I don’t sweat it too much. If you can run a dry patch through a clean rifle bore that comes out without a speck of discoloration on it then you’re definitely a better man than I am.

Barrel Break-in: As far as the barrel Break-in procedure goes. I’ve done the barrel break-in procedure on a few rifles and I’ve also shot a lot of them right out of the box. I never found any appreciable difference in accuracy to ever waste my time with that process again. Now that may raise the hackles on some of you die-hard riflemen out there but that’s the plain and simple unadulterated facts of life. If you want to do it, have at it!

A lot of riflemen I know are still futzing around breaking-in their rifles. They are still tweaking this or tweaking that. Three F-class seasons have come and gone and some of them have yet to fire a single round down range. Let’s face it folks, this isn’t a NASA mission. We aren’t sending men to Mars here! I believe the best advice I can give someone like this is to clamp on their scope, bore-sight their rig, and go out to the range and shoot the damned thing already! We can work out the particulars on the firing line. A few minor scope adjustments and an Allen key and you’ll be zeroed for 300 yards in no time flat.

Pistols: The handguns I use in competition also shoot much better when they’re dirty than when they’re clean. My custom built PPC revolver, my 2 ½” Model 19 revolver, and my Model 52-2 target pistol all go a full season between cleanings. That’s approximately 1,000 rounds per revolver and about 500 rounds for the Model 52-2. Granted, I’ll run a Bore Snake through them once in a while, and wipe off the feed ramp, but I’m not dissembling them during the shooting season unless I absolutely have to.

My Glock 34 pistol has gone through a couple seasons of Three-gun matches and an STTG pistol course or two without being cleaned and that amounts to roughly 2,000 rounds, give or take a hundred. My AR-15 has also fired several thousand rounds between cleanings without a hitch. John Krupa of Spartan Tactical Training Group couldn’t believe that my AR-15 still worked after he inspected it.

Over the years, I’ve known several shooters who have done a lot of damage to their firearms by some silly, over-zealous cleaning ritual than by shooting them. I’ve seen the Crowns on several Smith & Wesson revolvers totally ruined by Nimrods who wanted to thoroughly clean their revolvers. Beware of the Aluminum cleaning rod. Use a Brass rod when cleaning a firearm or better yet, purchase a Graphite or Carbon Fiber cleaning rod if possible. The one-piece models are best. There are no sections to unscrew during use. If you’re cleaning a bolt action rifle you should definitely be utilizing a cleaning rod guide while scrubbing your bore.

Now, I’m nowhere near the best shooter in the league. There are several members who are far better than I, but I do feel my level of ability speaks for itself. I didn’t get to where I am today by constantly cleaning my guns. I got here by sending thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands of rounds downrange. I’m sure if asked most of our top shooters don’t scrub their guns after every range session either.

If you like to clean guns often then God bless you. You can then come to my home and clean mine if you’d like? I absolutely detest cleaning guns! It’s too much like work. It stinks, it’s messy, and it’s time consuming. I feel my time is much better spent sending a lot of rounds down range, thus trying to become a better shooter than by constantly cleaning my guns.

One Word of Clarification: These are NOT duty guns we’re talking about here. Duty and Self-defense pistols a completely different animal unto themselves. Duty and Self-defense weapons should always be thoroughly cleaned and inspected after each and every use. Your life or the life of a friend or loved one may depend on it.

Now these are just my humble opinions. Take it or leave it.

25 posted on 10/31/2009 11:12:24 AM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER ( “If you're not ready to die for it, put the word ''freedom'' out of your vocabulary.” – Malcolm)
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To: Shooter 2.5
I didn’t ask how they tap the barrel for a scope mount.

Thats easy, you spot weld them. Works great with those new ultra-high carbon steels they're using for barrels these days. /sarc
26 posted on 10/31/2009 11:21:43 AM PDT by proud_yank (Socialism - An Answer In Search Of A Question For Over 100 Years)
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Great post....I have expensive sod poodle an leg match guns that are cleaned as if they will be used in surgery yet my 3 gun tools are for most part cleaned quarterly ....

My CHL rigs are also cleaned an test fired and carried after a magazine is fired thru em.

Stay Safe !!!

27 posted on 10/31/2009 12:06:32 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Squantos
Sweets 7.62! That's the stuff! I couldn't remember the name. The IBSC guys I was hanging around with had a "secret recipe" comprised of Sweets 7.62, and Kroil. Nobody would tell the exact mixture, and I personally think they all had a slightly different mixture anyway. We use straight Kroil and it does well too.

We are going to Militec-1 some barrels though. From what I've observed so far, it WILL make a difference!
28 posted on 10/31/2009 12:30:49 PM PDT by hiredhand (Understand the CRA and why we're facing economic collapse - see my about page.)
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To: hiredhand

Kroil is something I have not used yet. I have cleaned guns with simple green an pinesol when in active duty ......good thread.

29 posted on 10/31/2009 12:40:52 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Squantos
I got the impression that Kroil was some sort of "secret". EVERY shooter at the IBSC range had a can of it, and Sweets 7.62. We're out of Kroil at the moment and I need to get more!
30 posted on 10/31/2009 12:54:06 PM PDT by hiredhand (Understand the CRA and why we're facing economic collapse - see my about page.)
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To: hiredhand

I “will” snag some on my trip to town Sunday !!!

Heck I even use marvel mystery oil at times.

31 posted on 10/31/2009 12:58:15 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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I've never been a big believer in 'breaking in' any firearm. It's going to get plenty 'broke in' at the range as far as I'm concerned.

I do run a bore snake through them before I fire them just to make sure there are no little metal nasties left over from manufacture.

I love those bore snakes. Absolutely no chance of marring up the bore OR the crown with those. After a few hundred rounds I will give them a good scrub to remove the copper fouling. But I NEVER use a metal rod of any kind any more.

A friend of mine did acquire a couple extra of those slick new mil-spec rifle cleaning kits. They're like a plastic coated metal bore snake so it won't scuff up the rifling.

I use that for my AR pretty much exclusively now.

I've found that the repeated disassembly/reassembly process will do more damage over time that the honest range wear will.

My National Match M1A doesn't get disassembled more than annually due to the glass bed job.

Now none of this would apply if I were living in the field. Then I'd be cleaning the service weapons at least daily and more often if conditions required it.

But if I were living in the field I'd most likely be humping an AK variant and a 1911 both of which tolerate field conditions extremely well.

Best to you both.

32 posted on 10/31/2009 2:22:32 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Squantos

I mostly do shotguns, but I can see how a rifle barrel needs to be broken in. The last one I got had big spiral scratches in it from end to end, it took me forever to get them out.

33 posted on 10/31/2009 2:24:39 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Live jubtabulously!)
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To: Retain Mike
That 1/2 inch range grouping isn't nearly as important as steadying against a tree at the top of a steep hill, when your heart is pounding like a bass drum, your lungs are wheezing like a steam engine, and sweat is running down your forehead into your eyes.

My rifles do shoot better after a few rounds through them, and getting cleaned after each outing. But that is probably more improvement on my part than on the rifle's. I guess it is "broke in" when I can hit what I'm aiming at.

34 posted on 10/31/2009 2:57:31 PM PDT by meadsjn
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To: mad_as_he$$
I love my 91 Argentine. I guy who talked me into buying one back in the 70’s for $55.00;then worked up a pistol load and cast lead bullets of various weights. That is when I shot the 100yd iron sight group I could cover with a quarter. I have brass, powder, and bullets, but no place for my reloading bench until my wife finds another place for her grandfather's stitching machine he used in his shoe making shop.
35 posted on 10/31/2009 3:33:46 PM PDT by Retain Mike
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To: tet68
One BIG caveat.....

EVERYTHING about that rifle including the ammo it uses was meant to mess German minds. The bullets mike at about 302 or thereabouts other than for the little band which seals the bore and mikes 308; the idea was to outrange German guns by two or three hundred yards.

That means that when you go to load ammo with normal American hunting bullets, the book is worthless. The total length of cartridge number the books will give is for the Swiss military bullet; anything else needs to be seated back to the first point at which the bolt closes over it easily and the difference is about a whole quarer of an inch. Normal hunting bullets will shoot quite accurately if loaded that way.

36 posted on 10/31/2009 3:34:29 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: Tijeras_Slim; Lurker

Yeah....... I think folks here are confusing “cleaning” with breaking in a NEW barrel on a rifle......two different critters IMO.

I believe in “breaking in a new barrel” as well as cleaning firearms after each use. Just my habit as career military.

37 posted on 10/31/2009 4:21:18 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Lurker

I remember my Uncle telling me of the cold in the Korean war that disabled some weapons they were issued and the Garand was not one of them.....I think the M1A would be my first choice over an AK for all weather, urban or open terrain etc was in Grenada, Panama and Desert Storm as it is now in my retirement. The AK is my house gun as I paid maybe 200$ for it back in the 80’s and I wouldn’t trade all the cash in canookistan for it as they are solid reliable performers. I just like the accuracy and reliability of the M1A as well as it’s ability to reach out for the long stop shot !

Trick or treat !...........Off to the door bells !

38 posted on 10/31/2009 4:29:32 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Squantos; waterhill; mylife
Ping for later....

Sure to be some interesting discussion....

39 posted on 10/31/2009 4:41:01 PM PDT by Envisioning (Proud "Right Wing Extremist" per the DHS.......)
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To: Envisioning

I’m here to learn ........:o)

Never to old to learn new stuff !

40 posted on 10/31/2009 4:46:21 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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